im trying to build an ordered zoo using Lorekeeper. so draw engine Hand of Guldan set, the issue is here, after playing Lorekeeper if you have Gandling in your its gonna conflict with your Matron since both are 4 mana, but this is not the case with Tekahn, its 5 mana an ez draw after HoG.
in general i think Gandling is overrated and the effect is like Grand Lackey 1 time effect and a combo card but tekahn is battlecry like quest rogue and we know how strong the effect is.
your thoughts on every aspect;ordered zoo,tekahn vs Gandling, card suggestion for the list is highly appreciated. do you think i should run Sephere and Lorekeeper both?
I don’t think you need Lorekeeper or sphere. Hand of Gul’dan and life tap give you enough draw power to get through your whole deck reliably and putting hand on top doesn’t actually do anything for 2 turns unless you can discard it. Keep gandling and drop tekhan it’s bad stats and you can only ever make like 6 lackeys anyway.
I’d wait until all cards have been released to start building the deck, there may be some auto include card revealed that makes you have to completely re evaluate how you built the deck to work with lorekeeper
I’d wait until all cards have been released to start building the deck, there may be some auto include card revealed that makes you have to completely re evaluate how you built the deck to work with lorekeeper
yea your right, the main point here is to evaluate Lorekeeper-Tekahn-Gandling relation
I don’t think you need Lorekeeper or sphere. Hand of Gul’dan and life tap give you enough draw power to get through your whole deck reliably and putting hand on top doesn’t actually do anything for 2 turns unless you can discard it. Keep gandling and drop tekhan it’s bad stats and you can only ever make like 6 lackeys anyway.
we know in many cases you dont draw HoG and your hand is all discard, even if you draw HoG Tekhan maybe at the bottom of your deck, so Lorekeeper is so meaningful
I don't think Lorekeeper goes in ZOO. Lets say you play it in curve turn 4, and you don't have any "Discard X card" in your hand.
Well turn 5 you draw a dead card "Hand of Guldan",
turn 6 the same, and in turn 7 you finally draw a Matron IF you don't have any other card like, you said, Tekahn or Gandling.
If you have Tekahn for example you will draw it in turn 7 but if you haven't draw any Lackey generator before playing Lorekeeper in turn 4, well Tekahn now is only a 5 mana 4/4. The same goes for Gandling, you draw it but you already dumped your hand, well its a dead draw now.
In turn 8 you draw finally your Matron and draw 3 cards, but only in order so you draw another Matron, and maybe Teron and the Imprisoned Scrap Imp or the Eggs if you are unlucky (and don't draw your Lackey generator cards).
So... I don't see how can Lorekeeper work in Zoo with Hand of Guldan.
You could (in theory) run a zoo full of 1 drops without Magic Carpets or the Scrap Imps (a madman, I know), and with EVIL Genius and EVIL Cable Rat [/card] as your only 2-drops (and obviously running [card]Sinister Deal in your 1 drops).
Then you could play Lorekeeper in turn 4, Tekahn in turn 5, and a lackey generator in turn 6.
It would be viable? I don't think so.
Except they release a new legendary card for warlock like "insert Evil Teacher/warlock from WOW" 4 mana card, 2/6 taunt with battlecry: Add 2 random Lackeys to your hand.
Then you could play Magic Carpets and Scrap Imps, and do like:
Turn 4 Lorekeeper, Turn 5 Tekahn, Turn 6 This 4 mana legendary + tap (into your Magic Carpet), turn 7 Magic Carpet + plus 4 mana lackeys (with rush now!)
That would be the only way of this being possible (again obviously without Hand of Guldan and Matrons).
Yeah I think that with hand of guldan/lackey package it’s a little awkward to play lorekeeper considering you won’t be drawing the cards that combo well with your high end cards. That being said I’d default to just playing gandling over tekhan considering that gandling has flexibility of synergizing with any minion instead of lackeys as well as a better statline. Unless you plan on going further to the lategame gandling just makes more sense for a zoo deck.
I don't think Lorekeeper goes in ZOO. Lets say you play it in curve turn 4, and you don't have any "Discard X card" in your hand.
Well turn 5 you draw a dead card "Hand of Guldan",
turn 6 the same, and in turn 7 you finally draw a Matron IF you don't have any other card like, you said, Tekahn or Gandling.
If you have Tekahn for example you will draw it in turn 7 but if you haven't draw any Lackey generator before playing Lorekeeper in turn 4, well Tekahn now is only a 5 mana 4/4. The same goes for Gandling, you draw it but you already dumped your hand, well its a dead draw now.
In turn 8 you draw finally your Matron and draw 3 cards, but only in order so you draw another Matron, and maybe Teron and the Imprisoned Scrap Imp or the Eggs if you are unlucky (and don't draw your Lackey generator cards).
So... I don't see how can Lorekeeper work in Zoo with Hand of Guldan.
good points, but since you have 4 targeted discards(Merchant,Matron) and probably a copy of Soulfire its highly probable to draw at least one of them to turn 5. turn 5 your gonna draw( worst case scenario) second HoG>Tekahn>Matron, next turn another Matron to lackeys most probably.
this is i think the beauty of Lorekeeper in zoo since it gives consistency over 2 of your op cards and since your gonna draw more consistently your zephrys is gonna be active more consistently all those cards(;HoG,Tekahn,Zeph) had consistency issues last exansion
First of all: I don't think that building the deck in such a way around Lorekeeper is a very good idea. I see what you have in mind, but even if it works out as planned, you have to sacrifice some early board presence by playing Lorekeeper and possible Sphere, and the powerplay after you played Tekahn and got your lackeys and (probably?) Magic Carpet is not necessarily gamewinning after 6 relatively slow turns.
Against more aggressive decks, you might be too far behind on health, to be in range of burst spells and weapons, and against Mage, Priest and every Highlander deck, lategame board dominance means almost nothing. As far as your own range is concerned, keep in mind that Soulfire would sit at or near the bottom of your deck as well.
For what you have in mind, Tekahn is probably better than Gandling, just so you are not forced to stuff everything into one turn and have the Carpet advantage. But in case you don't pull of your Lorekeeper-combo, I think you slightly overestimate the strength of Tekahn. Generally speaking, for normal zoo-type decks or suboptimal draws, Gandling is probably the better card.
One of the main issues for Lackey Zoolock is that Warlock simply lacks the amount and quality of Lackey-generation that Rogue has, to make Tekahn's effect significant enough. EVIL Genius is situational, in that it requires minions for sacrifice like Eggs or Murmy, and the other generators are slow, and aside from Erkh recycles, that's all the Lackeys you get. And while Tekahn is theoretically stronger than Gandling, it is much more difficult to utilize: It has a specific deckbuilding requirement (lackey-generators) and a higher hand/deck/board requirement: Playing Tekahn makes for a terrible turn when you don't already have at least one Lackey on the board, is fairly useless if you have no lackeys on hand, and entirely useless with no generators left in your deck. Gandling has similar, but smaller issues (requires cheap minions in deck and on hand, limited to board interaction, but is less horrible on his own).
While the idea of an ordered Zoo is kinda cool, I don't think it's practical. Maybe I just lack the imagination, but building entirely around it seems too clunky to me, and the Lackey-synergy not strong enough to carry it.
First of all: I don't think that building the deck in such a way around Lorekeeper is a very good idea. I see what you have in mind, but even if it works out as planned, you have to sacrifice some early board presence by playing Lorekeeper and possible Sphere, and the powerplay after you played Tekahn and got your lackeys and (probably?) Magic Carpet is not necessarily gamewinning after 6 relatively slow turns.
Against more aggressive decks, you might be too far behind on health, to be in range of burst spells and weapons, and against Mage, Priest and every Highlander deck, lategame board dominance means almost nothing. As far as your own range is concerned, keep in mind that Soulfire would sit at or near the bottom of your deck as well.
For what you have in mind, Tekahn is probably better than Gandling, just so you are not forced to stuff everything into one turn and have the Carpet advantage. But in case you don't pull of your Lorekeeper-combo, I think you slightly overestimate the strength of Tekahn. Generally speaking, for normal zoo-type decks or suboptimal draws, Gandling is probably the better card.
One of the main issues for Lackey Zoolock is that Warlock simply lacks the amount and quality of Lackey-generation that Rogue has, to make Tekahn's effect significant enough. EVIL Genius is situational, in that it requires minions for sacrifice like Eggs or Murmy, and the other generators are slow, and aside from Erkh recycles, that's all the Lackeys you get. And while Tekahn is theoretically stronger than Gandling, it is much more difficult to utilize: It has a specific deckbuilding requirement (lackey-generators) and a higher hand/deck/board requirement: Playing Tekahn makes for a terrible turn when you don't already have at least one Lackey on the board, is fairly useless if you have no lackeys on hand, and entirely useless with no generators left in your deck. Gandling has similar, but smaller issues (requires cheap minions in deck and on hand, limited to board interaction, but is less horrible on his own).
While the idea of an ordered Zoo is kinda cool, I don't think it's practical. Maybe I just lack the imagination, but building entirely around it seems too clunky to me, and the Lackey-synergy not strong enough to carry it.
while you had some really good points, i dont this is bad or good, i see it as a platform to build around, these are 14 cards( 6draw,7lackey and Lorekeeper) i think those 16 are gonna decide the power level of the deck. tnx anyway you had some really good points
Tekahn is better in zoo decks that rely on those minion effects instead of their stats, battlecries or deathrattles. For an example, something with not only lackeys, but magic carpet, and self damage package. In those you dont want to destroy your minions and replace them with 4/4s.
On the other hand, Gandling kicks ass in terms of deathrattle and other low stuff zoos, where you wont only get the value of the battlecry/deathrattle, but actively improve the minion to a 4/4 (mostly improve, at least).
In wild sure there is going to be a lot of egg zoolocks with Gandling going on. In standard Tekahn might win thanks to synergies like Scrap Imp.
im trying to build an ordered zoo using Lorekeeper. so draw engine Hand of Guldan set, the issue is here, after playing Lorekeeper if you have Gandling in your its gonna conflict with your Matron since both are 4 mana, but this is not the case with Tekahn, its 5 mana an ez draw after HoG.
in general i think Gandling is overrated and the effect is like Grand Lackey 1 time effect and a combo card but tekahn is battlecry like quest rogue and we know how strong the effect is.
your thoughts on every aspect;ordered zoo,tekahn vs Gandling, card suggestion for the list is highly appreciated. do you think i should run Sephere and Lorekeeper both?
I don’t think you need Lorekeeper or sphere. Hand of Gul’dan and life tap give you enough draw power to get through your whole deck reliably and putting hand on top doesn’t actually do anything for 2 turns unless you can discard it. Keep gandling and drop tekhan it’s bad stats and you can only ever make like 6 lackeys anyway.
I’d wait until all cards have been released to start building the deck, there may be some auto include card revealed that makes you have to completely re evaluate how you built the deck to work with lorekeeper
Put your spoiler here.
yea your right, the main point here is to evaluate Lorekeeper-Tekahn-Gandling relation
we know in many cases you dont draw HoG and your hand is all discard, even if you draw HoG Tekhan maybe at the bottom of your deck, so Lorekeeper is so meaningful
I don't think Lorekeeper goes in ZOO. Lets say you play it in curve turn 4, and you don't have any "Discard X card" in your hand.
Well turn 5 you draw a dead card "Hand of Guldan",
turn 6 the same, and in turn 7 you finally draw a Matron IF you don't have any other card like, you said, Tekahn or Gandling.
If you have Tekahn for example you will draw it in turn 7 but if you haven't draw any Lackey generator before playing Lorekeeper in turn 4, well Tekahn now is only a 5 mana 4/4. The same goes for Gandling, you draw it but you already dumped your hand, well its a dead draw now.
In turn 8 you draw finally your Matron and draw 3 cards, but only in order so you draw another Matron, and maybe Teron and the Imprisoned Scrap Imp or the Eggs if you are unlucky (and don't draw your Lackey generator cards).
So... I don't see how can Lorekeeper work in Zoo with Hand of Guldan.
Everybody knows that...
https://hearthcards.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/ce/c0/bc/8a/cec0bc8a.png
You could (in theory) run a zoo full of 1 drops without Magic Carpets or the Scrap Imps (a madman, I know), and with EVIL Genius and EVIL Cable Rat [/card] as your only 2-drops (and obviously running [card]Sinister Deal in your 1 drops).
Then you could play Lorekeeper in turn 4, Tekahn in turn 5, and a lackey generator in turn 6.
It would be viable? I don't think so.
Except they release a new legendary card for warlock like "insert Evil Teacher/warlock from WOW" 4 mana card, 2/6 taunt with battlecry: Add 2 random Lackeys to your hand.
Then you could play Magic Carpets and Scrap Imps, and do like:
Turn 4 Lorekeeper, Turn 5 Tekahn, Turn 6 This 4 mana legendary + tap (into your Magic Carpet), turn 7 Magic Carpet + plus 4 mana lackeys (with rush now!)
That would be the only way of this being possible (again obviously without Hand of Guldan and Matrons).
Everybody knows that...
https://hearthcards.ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/ce/c0/bc/8a/cec0bc8a.png
Yeah I think that with hand of guldan/lackey package it’s a little awkward to play lorekeeper considering you won’t be drawing the cards that combo well with your high end cards. That being said I’d default to just playing gandling over tekhan considering that gandling has flexibility of synergizing with any minion instead of lackeys as well as a better statline. Unless you plan on going further to the lategame gandling just makes more sense for a zoo deck.
good points, but since you have 4 targeted discards(Merchant,Matron) and probably a copy of Soulfire its highly probable to draw at least one of them to turn 5. turn 5 your gonna draw( worst case scenario) second HoG>Tekahn>Matron, next turn another Matron to lackeys most probably.
this is i think the beauty of Lorekeeper in zoo since it gives consistency over 2 of your op cards and since your gonna draw more consistently your zephrys is gonna be active more consistently all those cards(;HoG,Tekahn,Zeph) had consistency issues last exansion
just realized cant run voidwalker in this..oops
Fun > Meta
First of all: I don't think that building the deck in such a way around Lorekeeper is a very good idea. I see what you have in mind, but even if it works out as planned, you have to sacrifice some early board presence by playing Lorekeeper and possible Sphere, and the powerplay after you played Tekahn and got your lackeys and (probably?) Magic Carpet is not necessarily gamewinning after 6 relatively slow turns.
Against more aggressive decks, you might be too far behind on health, to be in range of burst spells and weapons, and against Mage, Priest and every Highlander deck, lategame board dominance means almost nothing. As far as your own range is concerned, keep in mind that Soulfire would sit at or near the bottom of your deck as well.
For what you have in mind, Tekahn is probably better than Gandling, just so you are not forced to stuff everything into one turn and have the Carpet advantage. But in case you don't pull of your Lorekeeper-combo, I think you slightly overestimate the strength of Tekahn. Generally speaking, for normal zoo-type decks or suboptimal draws, Gandling is probably the better card.
One of the main issues for Lackey Zoolock is that Warlock simply lacks the amount and quality of Lackey-generation that Rogue has, to make Tekahn's effect significant enough. EVIL Genius is situational, in that it requires minions for sacrifice like Eggs or Murmy, and the other generators are slow, and aside from Erkh recycles, that's all the Lackeys you get. And while Tekahn is theoretically stronger than Gandling, it is much more difficult to utilize: It has a specific deckbuilding requirement (lackey-generators) and a higher hand/deck/board requirement: Playing Tekahn makes for a terrible turn when you don't already have at least one Lackey on the board, is fairly useless if you have no lackeys on hand, and entirely useless with no generators left in your deck. Gandling has similar, but smaller issues (requires cheap minions in deck and on hand, limited to board interaction, but is less horrible on his own).
While the idea of an ordered Zoo is kinda cool, I don't think it's practical. Maybe I just lack the imagination, but building entirely around it seems too clunky to me, and the Lackey-synergy not strong enough to carry it.
Of those three cards, I think Gandling is definitely the best one. He has better stats than Tehkan and works with things that aren't lackeys.
while you had some really good points, i dont this is bad or good, i see it as a platform to build around, these are 14 cards( 6draw,7lackey and Lorekeeper) i think those 16 are gonna decide the power level of the deck. tnx anyway you had some really good points
Tekahn is better in zoo decks that rely on those minion effects instead of their stats, battlecries or deathrattles. For an example, something with not only lackeys, but magic carpet, and self damage package. In those you dont want to destroy your minions and replace them with 4/4s.
On the other hand, Gandling kicks ass in terms of deathrattle and other low stuff zoos, where you wont only get the value of the battlecry/deathrattle, but actively improve the minion to a 4/4 (mostly improve, at least).
In wild sure there is going to be a lot of egg zoolocks with Gandling going on. In standard Tekahn might win thanks to synergies like Scrap Imp.
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