I agree. This gets more complicated withPreparation though:
Using Preparation + Sprint is bascally the same as using 2 Arcane Intellect. It cycles 2 cards and it draws 2 cards.Preparation + Sprint is (2) less tough. Nerfing Preparation to only reduce by (2) seems fair in this conext as it is still (1) less, Preparation has other uses but you can't use it as cheaper draw enginge if you have only one of them.
Unfortunately Nourish is basially also doing the same. For (5) it cycles a card and draws 2. This doesn't seem so fair anymore as you have to combine 2 cards for Preparation + Sprint and if this combo will be nerfed to cost (5) it costs the same.
In addition to Sprint nerfing Preparation would almost only affect Fan of Knives which is... not really a necessary nerf.
They should Nerf that 4\4 that gives stealth to prevent OTK rogue witn new dragon
Yeah, that was my immediate thought when I saw Scaled Nightmare. Really you just build your deck like miracle, but replace Malygos (or Leeroy from back in the day) with the dragon. Conceal Gadgetzan, next turn conceal the dragon, then cold blood to further cycle and prepare the dragon for OTK, give it stealth with Master of Disguise and keep it stealthed for as long as you need to ramp up its attack or remove taunts. Since you'll be hitting face with that, you can use all the spells to remove minions and stay alive without sacrificing your win condition as with Malygos. Since the combo could technically be as simple as the dragon with master of disguise, if the matchup was slow enough, I can see Blizzard not wanting to enable a 2-card OTK. Yes it takes several turns to get there, but since Flare, Deadly Shot, Equality + AOE, Twisting Nether, Shadowflame on a giant, 2x Flamestrike, Elemental Destruction + Lightning Storm, and Auchenai 2x circle are just about the only ways to reliably counter this in Standard (C'thun could certainly take it out, too), aggro doesn't stand a chance if the rogue can survive. As I listed, there are ways to guarantee a kill on an 8hp minion with stealth, and there's always Ragnaros coin flips and Sylvanas plays as well, but NONE of these are options to an aggro deck. I'm personally OK with that (I tend to play decks that will have an answer to this situation, in theory), but I don't know if Blizzard will be since getting killed in one hit with a stealth minion isn't terribly interactive. But at least you can see it coming on the board and play accordingly, unlike Anyfin, where you often just have to pray they don't have their second Anyfin as you set up lethal. And Rogue doesn't have the healing Paladin does to make that deck viable. So if they do nerf Master of Disguise and kill any chances Nightmare has of becoming viable, and Anyfin is still viable in wild, I'll be pretty disappointed. I'm sick of the disproportionate amount of Paladins and Rogues in constructed.
They should Nerf that 4\4 that gives stealth to prevent OTK rogue witn new dragon
Yeah, that was my immediate thought when I saw Scaled Nightmare. Really you just build your deck like miracle, but replace Malygos (or Leeroy from back in the day) with the dragon. Conceal Gadgetzan, next turn conceal the dragon, then cold blood to further cycle and prepare the dragon for OTK, give it stealth with Master of Disguise and keep it stealthed for as long as you need to ramp up its attack or remove taunts. Since you'll be hitting face with that, you can use all the spells to remove minions and stay alive without sacrificing your win condition as with Malygos. Since the combo could technically be as simple as the dragon with master of disguise, if the matchup was slow enough, I can see Blizzard not wanting to enable a 2-card OTK. Yes it takes several turns to get there, but since Flare, Deadly Shot, Equality + AOE, Twisting Nether, Shadowflame on a giant, 2x Flamestrike, Elemental Destruction + Lightning Storm, and Auchenai 2x circle are just about the only ways to reliably counter this in Standard (C'thun could certainly take it out, too), aggro doesn't stand a chance if the rogue can survive. As I listed, there are ways to guarantee a kill on an 8hp minion with stealth, and there's always Ragnaros coin flips and Sylvanas plays as well, but NONE of these are options to an aggro deck. I'm personally OK with that (I tend to play decks that will have an answer to this situation, in theory), but I don't know if Blizzard will be since getting killed in one hit with a stealth minion isn't terribly interactive. But at least you can see it coming on the board and play accordingly, unlike Anyfin, where you often just have to pray they don't have their second Anyfin as you set up lethal. And Rogue doesn't have the healing Paladin does to make that deck viable. So if they do nerf Master of Disguise and kill any chances Nightmare has of becoming viable, and Anyfin is still viable in wild, I'll be pretty disappointed. I'm sick of the disproportionate amount of Paladins and Rogues in constructed.
Resuming: other random player crying for combo decks not to exists.
I have to say that I hate combo druid because it's not interactive and retarded... but it has a huge difference between other combo decks like Mage Freeze or Anyfin pala.
They should Nerf that 4\4 that gives stealth to prevent OTK rogue witn new dragon
Yeah, that was my immediate thought when I saw Scaled Nightmare. Really you just build your deck like miracle, but replace Malygos (or Leeroy from back in the day) with the dragon. Conceal Gadgetzan, next turn conceal the dragon, then cold blood to further cycle and prepare the dragon for OTK, give it stealth with Master of Disguise and keep it stealthed for as long as you need to ramp up its attack or remove taunts. Since you'll be hitting face with that, you can use all the spells to remove minions and stay alive without sacrificing your win condition as with Malygos. Since the combo could technically be as simple as the dragon with master of disguise, if the matchup was slow enough, I can see Blizzard not wanting to enable a 2-card OTK. Yes it takes several turns to get there, but since Flare, Deadly Shot, Equality + AOE, Twisting Nether, Shadowflame on a giant, 2x Flamestrike, Elemental Destruction + Lightning Storm, and Auchenai 2x circle are just about the only ways to reliably counter this in Standard (C'thun could certainly take it out, too), aggro doesn't stand a chance if the rogue can survive. As I listed, there are ways to guarantee a kill on an 8hp minion with stealth, and there's always Ragnaros coin flips and Sylvanas plays as well, but NONE of these are options to an aggro deck. I'm personally OK with that (I tend to play decks that will have an answer to this situation, in theory), but I don't know if Blizzard will be since getting killed in one hit with a stealth minion isn't terribly interactive. But at least you can see it coming on the board and play accordingly, unlike Anyfin, where you often just have to pray they don't have their second Anyfin as you set up lethal. And Rogue doesn't have the healing Paladin does to make that deck viable. So if they do nerf Master of Disguise and kill any chances Nightmare has of becoming viable, and Anyfin is still viable in wild, I'll be pretty disappointed. I'm sick of the disproportionate amount of Paladins and Rogues in constructed.
Resuming: other random player crying for combo decks not to exists.
I have to say that I hate combo druid because it's not interactive and retarded... but it has a huge difference between other combo decks like Mage Freeze or Anyfin pala.
OTK Combo decks are probably my favorite decks to play. The thing is, I hate to play them when I know my opponent is going to see it coming a mile away. So the types of combos I love playing are the Raptor-Leper Gnome OTK, Frost Giant-Charge OTK, Gorehowl-Bloodsail, Aviana-Malygos-Faceless, Unlimited fireballs with echo on Apprentice, you get the picture. High win rates are not my goal. Combo Druid and Anyfin aren't fun to me because the combo doesn't come as a surprise to anyone, because everyone knows these decks exist. I want my opponents to say, "wait, I'm just dead? Seriously?" and not, "hmm, well played BrokeBack," roll their eyes and escape concede.
They will probably nerf Shadowstep. It's too OP with some cards like C'Thun or N'Zoth the Corruptor which can effect the board immediately with Battlecry.
If Shadowstep is changed into something like "next minion your play cost (2) less" (Preparation for minion XD) , that would be great!
Rogues got gutted. I can understand the minion damage but the mana increase is overboard.
I also don't see the 'great' cards were getting to compensate for it; the cards all had underwhelming stats which was okay because we had removal to compensate for it. That's no longer the case.
Blade Flurry is really the only nerf I disagree with (I wish Knife Juggler got hit harder) and it seems like most of the community does as well.
The mana cost nerf is really over the top. Almost all other nerfs are well thought but I don't understand the reasoning behind this..
That makes two of us man. It's kind of infuriating as well, considering that none of Rogue cards so far are nowhere near OP (except maybe Shadowcaster; I feel this card is a sleeper).
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'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
The mana cost nerf is really over the top. Almost all other nerfs are well thought but I don't understand the reasoning behind this..
That makes two of us man. It's kind of infuriating as well, considering that none of Rogue cards so far are nowhere near OP (except maybe Shadowcaster; I feel this card is a sleeper).
We can only hope that Rogue will get that promised new aoe..
But the biggest reason I hate this is, because it takes hero power synergy from Rogue which is already pretty poor.
As much as I agree that the sheer level of the nerf itself was too hard, this could be the reason the Rogue cards have been getting spoiled so slowly. We've got five left to be spoiled, so there's still room for optimism. Don't treat this as the end of times, but as a new beginning - one that will see better quality Rogue cards overall.
The fate of the class depends on tomorrow's reveal, and not just being competitive, but playable. I wish that were an exaggeration. If the card quality doesn't improve Rogues will locked into Tier 4 for the foreseeable future. This is my favorite class in the game, so I really do wish it is playable.
Convince me I'm wrong; but with no decent heal, poor aoe, and weak early game minions I just don't see the class doing well. It's designed like a Control class with no Control survivability. Hopefully Blizzard sees this as well.
i don't even know what to say, this by far exceeds my worst expectations. What were they thinking? In what world is BF for 4! mana!, 4!!!! mana without the facedamage a card you'd ever want to play?. Increase the cost OR remove the facedamage or at least make it 3 so it can be prepped, godDAMMIT!
But i am really glad they took those nerfs so serious and executed them so consistently, knife juggler as a 2/2? what a quality nerf that is, surely it will be cut from every deck that played it for its OP ability. Ironbeak for 3 mana? noone ever played that card for the silence effect anyway, it was just about that 2/1 body for 2 that was so very attractive, am i rite? And the fact that Doomhammer/Rockbiter still works the same makes me sick from just thinking about shaman.
Blizzard better have some serious weaponry and AOE for rogue, because they just annihilated the only somewhat working archetype with this ridiculous nerf. A shame, really. I always loved miraclework, but without a good AOE it just doesn't work.
Now we received the Nerf Gun, hit hardest on all rogue players.
Where is the Buff gun? you know, because we have top tier ever-green classic Epic card Kidnapper & Patient Assassin that is auto-include in every rogue deck.
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I agree. This gets more complicated withPreparation though:
Using Preparation + Sprint is bascally the same as using 2 Arcane Intellect. It cycles 2 cards and it draws 2 cards.Preparation + Sprint is (2) less tough. Nerfing Preparation to only reduce by (2) seems fair in this conext as it is still (1) less, Preparation has other uses but you can't use it as cheaper draw enginge if you have only one of them.
Unfortunately Nourish is basially also doing the same. For (5) it cycles a card and draws 2. This doesn't seem so fair anymore as you have to combine 2 cards for Preparation + Sprint and if this combo will be nerfed to cost (5) it costs the same.
In addition to Sprint nerfing Preparation would almost only affect Fan of Knives which is... not really a necessary nerf.
- senti
They should Nerf that 4\4 that gives stealth to prevent OTK rogue witn new dragon
Master of Disguise is gone, Scaled Dragon is a pretty big indicator of that. I think Conceal is fine, since its just one turn.
They will probably nerf Shadowstep. It's too OP with some cards like C'Thun or N'Zoth the Corruptor which can effect the board immediately with Battlecry.
If Shadowstep is changed into something like "next minion your play cost (2) less" (Preparation for minion XD) , that would be great!
They will probably just increase its mana cost to (1). This would also be in line with Bloodthistle Toxin from Xaril, Poisoned Mind.
- senti
wtf?what you want to nerf?backstab??really?
Rogues got gutted. I can understand the minion damage but the mana increase is overboard.
I also don't see the 'great' cards were getting to compensate for it; the cards all had underwhelming stats which was okay because we had removal to compensate for it. That's no longer the case.
Blade Flurry is really the only nerf I disagree with (I wish Knife Juggler got hit harder) and it seems like most of the community does as well.
YOU KNOW WHAT'S F*ING ANNOYING?
The fact that some overused neutral cards got more balanced changes than BF (Knife Juggler). And Xaril is still a 3/2 *mindblowing
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
The mana cost nerf is really over the top. Almost all other nerfs are well thought but I don't understand the reasoning behind this..
- senti
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
- senti
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
As much as I agree that the sheer level of the nerf itself was too hard, this could be the reason the Rogue cards have been getting spoiled so slowly. We've got five left to be spoiled, so there's still room for optimism. Don't treat this as the end of times, but as a new beginning - one that will see better quality Rogue cards overall.
The fate of the class depends on tomorrow's reveal, and not just being competitive, but playable. I wish that were an exaggeration. If the card quality doesn't improve Rogues will locked into Tier 4 for the foreseeable future. This is my favorite class in the game, so I really do wish it is playable.
Convince me I'm wrong; but with no decent heal, poor aoe, and weak early game minions I just don't see the class doing well. It's designed like a Control class with no Control survivability. Hopefully Blizzard sees this as well.
'There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact'
Sherlock Holmes
i don't even know what to say, this by far exceeds my worst expectations. What were they thinking? In what world is BF for 4! mana!, 4!!!! mana without the facedamage a card you'd ever want to play?. Increase the cost OR remove the facedamage or at least make it 3 so it can be prepped, godDAMMIT!
But i am really glad they took those nerfs so serious and executed them so consistently, knife juggler as a 2/2? what a quality nerf that is, surely it will be cut from every deck that played it for its OP ability. Ironbeak for 3 mana? noone ever played that card for the silence effect anyway, it was just about that 2/1 body for 2 that was so very attractive, am i rite? And the fact that Doomhammer/Rockbiter still works the same makes me sick from just thinking about shaman.
Blizzard better have some serious weaponry and AOE for rogue, because they just annihilated the only somewhat working archetype with this ridiculous nerf. A shame, really. I always loved miraclework, but without a good AOE it just doesn't work.
Now we received the Nerf Gun, hit hardest on all rogue players.
Where is the Buff gun? you know, because we have top tier ever-green classic Epic card Kidnapper & Patient Assassin that is auto-include in every rogue deck.