Well... Thing from Below wasen't even featured in the deck that they were trying to nerf. (Which was Aggro Shaman Btw), so why nerf a card in a deck that dosen't even oppress the meta?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
Thing From Below is fine. Spirit claws more or less controlled the early game if the shaman rolled a spell power totem on the turn after. Besides, potentially 9 damage for 1 mana is good.
I think it's fine because at 2 mana it's still viable in the deck it was intended for, a slower control Shaman with spell damage for board clears and some healing to back it up. That deck isn't viable in the meta but that's another issue entirely. The nerf was targeted at removing it from face shamans where it was problematic while still leaving the value, so I appreciate that.
Shaman had a lot of possible targets for nerfs because he has a lot of cards that are high on the power curve.
Thing from Below is certainly over-powered. Let's add Maelstrom Portal, Jade Lightning, and Hex to the list.
For some reason they decided that Shaman shouldn't have any weaknesses, and yes, it makes the game less fun. However, they decided that they ONLY wanted to nerf the MOST oppressive Shaman deck, Agro Shaman. So now Shaman has a weakness in the sense that they don't have a *perfect* turn 1 anymore.
It wasn't the wrong nerf, the problem is that pirate Warrior wasn't nerfed enough. The nerf to Small-time Buccaneer was not enough or at least not the right one and nothing else was nerfed. Blizzard should have finally stomped Frothing Berserker and maybe nerf Upgrade too.
And no, Spirit Claws was the right nerf, the problem is that this actually made pirate warrior even stronger.
No, the spirit claws need nerf, the Thing From Hell need nerf too and the trogg and the 4 mana 7/7 and the totem golem and the jade claw and the Hex and the mass removals, it all too good for the cost, the shaman cards are so powerful, unfair, broken and OP you see a lot of cards will be used if avaiable for others classes and is completely ignored for shaman players because they are in only "very good" category, in shaman decks, anything less than OP broken don't deserve a slot.
I can't wait to see the cursed trogg and golem go to wild, if removed from the game entirely will be better..
No, the spirit claws need nerf, the Thing From Hell need nerf too and the trogg and the 4 mana 7/7 and the totem golem and the jade claw and the Hex and the mass removals, it all too good for the cost, the shaman cards are so powerful, unfair, broken and OP you see a lot of cards will be used if avaiable for others classes and is completely ignored for shaman players because they are in only "very good" category, in shaman decks, anything less than OP broken don't deserve a slot.
I can't wait to see the cursed trogg and golem go to wild, if removed from the game entirely will be better..
Sure, let's just kill Shaman. That's clearly a reasonable response to them having a lot of absurdly strong cards.
You don't adjust classes by killing off half a dozen of the strongest cards, especially when in the case of Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem they're out of the format in less than a month. Taking pot-shots at something like Flamewreathed Faceless when it hasn't even been a staple in most lists since it was released is also a bit puzzling, and I'd argue indicative of a card that's clearly not problematic. Jade Claws and Jade Lightning are insanely good, but have been out for one set; new mechanics being relevant is not what I'd say is particularly worrisome.
So in the end we got Spirit Claws nerfed because it was a) so good that it literally was auto-include in every list, no matter the archetype, and b) missed the design goal of really just being a card for niche Spell Shaman decks. Post-nerf it's pretty clear neither of those are the case anymore, though similar to Rockbiter it could see some niche play in the future. And then we had STB nerfed, because it was in 50% of the decklists in the upper regions of ladder and was a bigger deal than just Aggro Shaman being good in this meta.
So the result is that Shaman is still great until the rotation, and probably still okay post-rotation even getting gutted a bit in the early game department. Spirit Claws was a solid card to target without killing the class, and the people wanting a wide swath of Shaman cards to get killed off should realize that's exactly what touching all of the powerful cards Shaman has at once would do. Shaman is ridiculous yes, but "balancing" by simply making sure it never sees competitive play in the near future is just as ridiculous.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
There is only one card that i would hit with the nerf-coil as hard as possible: Tunnel Trogg. Stats stay the same, but he only gets +1 attack every time a card with overload is played, no matter the amount.
It wasn't the wrong nerf, the problem is that pirate Warrior wasn't nerfed enough. The nerf to Small-time Buccaneer was not enough or at least not the right one and nothing else was nerfed. Blizzard should have finally stomped Frothing Berserker and maybe nerf Upgrade too.
And no, Spirit Claws was the right nerf, the problem is that this actually made pirate warrior even stronger.
If the 2/3 crab and 3/5 taunt don't put a huge dent in pirate warrior, they are going to get more nerfs. Upgrade needs to cost 2 mana just like spirit claw does now. Frothing either becomes 2/3 for 3 mana or costs 4 mana. Jade idol is also broken vs. control and needs to cost 2-3 mana or be redesigned.
It wasn't the wrong nerf, the problem is that pirate Warrior wasn't nerfed enough. The nerf to Small-time Buccaneer was not enough or at least not the right one and nothing else was nerfed. Blizzard should have finally stomped Frothing Berserker and maybe nerf Upgrade too.
And no, Spirit Claws was the right nerf, the problem is that this actually made pirate warrior even stronger.
If the 2/3 crab and 3/5 taunt don't put a huge dent in pirate warrior, they are going to get more nerfs. Upgrade needs to cost 2 mana just like spirit claw does now. Frothing either becomes 2/3 for 3 mana or costs 4 mana. Jade idol is also broken vs. control and needs to cost 2-3 mana or be redesigned.
Only after a few months, because blizzard is lazy with nerfs. They rather count the money then balance the game. And yes, the crab will nerf pirate warrior by around 0%, simply because the problem are all cards except pirates. Ok, the 2 mana 5/3 pirate might take a hit, but the damage is still too high in pirate warrior. And the crab is simply bad; you don't want to play never ever a River Crocolisk against other decks. And Frothing Berserker is the main problem of it; it was always a big problem in Warrior, but blizzard never nerfed him. While i defended him myself over and over, he will always make problems.
There's lazy with nerfs, and there's simply the fact that it's intentionally something they do not do often for a number of reasons. One being that it's something they prefer to do sparingly since card games are supposed to be self-correcting (and to a certain extent this has always been the case with HS), another being that the current patch system is awful. The second problem has something in the works, but it's not like you just fix that kind of thing overnight.
I'm quite doubtful Pirate Warrior remains as abundant as it is currently to be honest. A (semi) unconditional 3 mana 3/5 with Taunt is a huge deal, and Priest and Warlock having a couple of fat-bottomed Taunts is also a big deal. Control decks not having to worry about insane Kazakus value is also a huge deal in regards to that. There's a lot of arguments to be made it will still be very, very strong; but I'm not seeing many that actually indicate it's going to be able to keep up with the anti-aggro tools being introduced.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
No, the spirit claws need nerf, the Thing From Hell need nerf too and the trogg and the 4 mana 7/7 and the totem golem and the jade claw and the Hex and the mass removals, it all too good for the cost, the shaman cards are so powerful, unfair, broken and OP you see a lot of cards will be used if avaiable for others classes and is completely ignored for shaman players because they are in only "very good" category, in shaman decks, anything less than OP broken don't deserve a slot.
I can't wait to see the cursed trogg and golem go to wild, if removed from the game entirely will be better..
Sure, let's just kill Shaman. That's clearly a reasonable response to them having a lot of absurdly strong cards.
You don't adjust classes by killing off half a dozen of the strongest cards, especially when in the case of Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem they're out of the format in less than a month. Taking pot-shots at something like Flamewreathed Faceless when it hasn't even been a staple in most lists since it was released is also a bit puzzling, and I'd argue indicative of a card that's clearly not problematic. Jade Claws and Jade Lightning are insanely good, but have been out for one set; new mechanics being relevant is not what I'd say is particularly worrisome.
So in the end we got Spirit Claws nerfed because it was a) so good that it literally was auto-include in every list, no matter the archetype, and b) missed the design goal of really just being a card for niche Spell Shaman decks. Post-nerf it's pretty clear neither of those are the case anymore, though similar to Rockbiter it could see some niche play in the future. And then we had STB nerfed, because it was in 50% of the decklists in the upper regions of ladder and was a bigger deal than just Aggro Shaman being good in this meta.
So the result is that Shaman is still great until the rotation, and probably still okay post-rotation even getting gutted a bit in the early game department. Spirit Claws was a solid card to target without killing the class, and the people wanting a wide swath of Shaman cards to get killed off should realize that's exactly what touching all of the powerful cards Shaman has at once would do. Shaman is ridiculous yes, but "balancing" by simply making sure it never sees competitive play in the near future is just as ridiculous.
They should look to nerf some shaman card anyways. Wild still exists and if shaman continues getting incredibly powerful cards thats all wild will become.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Thing from Below should've been nerfed isntead
These kind of posts are getting tiresome.
Well... Thing from Below wasen't even featured in the deck that they were trying to nerf. (Which was Aggro Shaman Btw), so why nerf a card in a deck that dosen't even oppress the meta?
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
I think all Shaman cards should have been nerfed. Give them a vanilla 4 mana 1/1 with Overload (5), then I might be satisfied.
Jade Idol should have been nerfed instead.
Have a Cup of concrete and Harden up @OP
-Those who do not understand true pain, can never understand true peace.-
Thing From Below is fine. Spirit claws more or less controlled the early game if the shaman rolled a spell power totem on the turn after. Besides, potentially 9 damage for 1 mana is good.
I think it's fine because at 2 mana it's still viable in the deck it was intended for, a slower control Shaman with spell damage for board clears and some healing to back it up. That deck isn't viable in the meta but that's another issue entirely. The nerf was targeted at removing it from face shamans where it was problematic while still leaving the value, so I appreciate that.
Kobolds are almost as bad as goblins, they gotta die (⌐■_■)–︻╦╤─
Shaman had a lot of possible targets for nerfs because he has a lot of cards that are high on the power curve.
Thing from Below is certainly over-powered. Let's add Maelstrom Portal, Jade Lightning, and Hex to the list.
For some reason they decided that Shaman shouldn't have any weaknesses, and yes, it makes the game less fun. However, they decided that they ONLY wanted to nerf the MOST oppressive Shaman deck, Agro Shaman. So now Shaman has a weakness in the sense that they don't have a *perfect* turn 1 anymore.
It wasn't the wrong nerf, the problem is that pirate Warrior wasn't nerfed enough. The nerf to Small-time Buccaneer was not enough or at least not the right one and nothing else was nerfed. Blizzard should have finally stomped Frothing Berserker and maybe nerf Upgrade too.
And no, Spirit Claws was the right nerf, the problem is that this actually made pirate warrior even stronger.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
There is only one card that i would hit with the nerf-coil as hard as possible: Tunnel Trogg. Stats stay the same, but he only gets +1 attack every time a card with overload is played, no matter the amount.
There's lazy with nerfs, and there's simply the fact that it's intentionally something they do not do often for a number of reasons. One being that it's something they prefer to do sparingly since card games are supposed to be self-correcting (and to a certain extent this has always been the case with HS), another being that the current patch system is awful. The second problem has something in the works, but it's not like you just fix that kind of thing overnight.
I'm quite doubtful Pirate Warrior remains as abundant as it is currently to be honest. A (semi) unconditional 3 mana 3/5 with Taunt is a huge deal, and Priest and Warlock having a couple of fat-bottomed Taunts is also a big deal. Control decks not having to worry about insane Kazakus value is also a huge deal in regards to that. There's a lot of arguments to be made it will still be very, very strong; but I'm not seeing many that actually indicate it's going to be able to keep up with the anti-aggro tools being introduced.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?