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Doing the combo lets your opponent do favorable trades. Brawling will just destroy everything and requires only 1 card and a smaller board.
Seems to imply that brawl is too good of a card.
Edit: For a clearer understanding, imagine the scenarios with brawl and PTK+bol for each board size and minion stat.
For protect the king to outperform brawl, you must be playing it against a board where most minions are within the 0-2/3 stat line. The reasoning for this is stat line derives from the attacks your opponents do next turn.
In the forehand, it should be mentioned that the combo also has an added risk over brawl e.g vulnerable to removal such as aoe.
Say the opponents board is,
3/2 1/2 3/2 3/2
Your opponent will trade those 3/2s in next turn leaving you with a 3/3 and your opponent with a 1/2. Now say you cast brawl, brawl would have killed 3 minions and most likely leave a 3/2 up. The combo is slightly better than brawl in this case.
However, this is not a realistic board. You will not see these stat lines on the turn you play the combo unless you are playing against a zoo. The most popular decks right now are dragon warrior, zoo, aggro shaman and midrange shaman.
These stat lines will never occur against a dragon warrior.
Against aggro shaman, it is possible. However, for a board of 4 to generate, you most likely did not draw axe in which case, tunnel trog+totem golem will destroy you. It will also not save you from the 7/7.
The midrange match up is similar except there's an added risk. They run lightning storm.
The zoo matchup has already been discussed.
It's easy to think PTK+bolster is good when you explicitly see the stat lines but brawl just does it better most of the time. Just imagine a realistic board. For warrior, 3/3 alex +frothing berserker+twilight guardian. You seriously do not want to play the combo into frothing. If you want to go big in value, brawl out dos PTK+bolster, imagine a nzoth paladin playing nzoth. Wouldn't you rather have brawl killing the 5/5 sylvannas, 6/6 tirion, 5/7 nzoth and ect?
You should also remember it's a 2 card combo as opposed to just a single brawl. This makes it more inconsistent and loses you an extra card. Is that extra small benefit worth an extra card?
So using 2 cards to presumably force your opponent into trades is a less effective as a board clear than a single card that destroys all but 1 minion. In other words, a card designed for a specific purpose is more effective than a pair of cards trying to accomplish the same in a roundabout manner. Seems obvious but provides no evidence that Brawl is 'too good of a card'.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Protect the King is not a control card. A deck that wants to combo it with Bolster probably goes a tempo / zoo-ish route and tries to maintain a board itself at any given time. While Brawl would not only kill the opponent's minions, but also removes your board, you can play Pawns + Bolster on a contested board, and make trades after the combo with your other minions.
I am playing with the PtK + Bolster combo in multiple deck styles.
In my huge, king kong slow but with huge whollops Y'Saarj deck, I have lots of taunts (including SogGOD, I mean Soggoth), all the normal control tools, then added this PtK + Bolster. I don't have final results yet, but it can close out a game, straight up. And it is because of all the other taunts. If I have a brawl (I do actually use both), then I will generally try to bait out their board without using too many of my resources, and of course, no way I PtK + Bolster until I brawl him. The brings it down to ground zero, even steven. After that starts what, really, the whole basis for the deck is: work to get a minion or two on the board (they are big, surviving guys, like the 2/6 4 drop and Soggoth and Bogboy). Usually only one is necessary, and when they "bulk up" their board to try to get through the minions, I use PtG and Bolster, hopefully pulling 3ish 3/3s (or amazingly often late game double Bolseters for 3ish 5/5s) then clear their board with my pre-existing minion (which is commonly bolstered and then survive when he wouldn't have).
The other deck is that tempo one, but that is tough for one reason: Card Draw. If have lots of cards, you can really go crazy and dominate. But if you are trying to use two copies of PtK and Bolster and the create-a-force combo, you are closer to a combo deck and need card draw. But all that card draw weakens the deck.
So the jury is out, and in no way is this some crazy meta-setting goliath of a combo, but it can be effective, strangely, more as a concede-style finisher haha. BAM BAM BAM BAM - Concede
Most agreeable answer so far. I realised the bolster deck is a more minion heavy and has a lower curve. Brawl just doesn't fit into the deck. I guess the better question well be how does decks with brawl compare to decks with bolster PTK? I assume this is something Vicious Syndicate will have data for soon.
Other class maybe, but warrior have much better options for clear the board (Brawl) or full the board (Grim Patron).
As this thread degenerates, let me make a point about the field clear capabilities of the combo. You summon identical 3/3 minions. In other words, your opponent's trading capabilities are severely weakened since every minion is identical. Think of it this way: option A: you opponent can kill each of your Taunts with one of his minions. You just played a five cost card with the text "deal 3 damage to all enemy minions." That's about on par with the combo's cost. Option 2: Your opponent drops flamestrike. You got a 2 mana advantage which is acceptable. Option 3 they can't kill all of your taunts with their minions, but have to attack you anyway. In that case you get "deal three damage to all enemy minions (a 5/6 value card) in addition to any surviving minions. Unless you have excessive card draw, this is your ideal situation which would massacre most aggro/zoo decks. Is it the best combo in the world? Maybe not, but it will always be more powerful if all/most of your opponent's minions have stats below 3/3 (ironically the type of deck the control warrior archetype specializes in killing).
GENERATION 40: The first time you see this, copy it into your signature on any forum and add 1 to the generation. This is a social experiment.
Asking for people's ranks before they can argue with you and calling yourself plebcrusher doesn't really lend yourself to being taken seriously.
It all depends on what type of board you're up against. Playing this against a board of 4/5s is utterly pointless, as the opponent is given the initiative in making good trades. Against an army of 1/1s and 2/2s, it should eat up the opponent's board and net you a 3/3 or two on top of it.
I say "should" because it still gives the initiative to the opponent. A Flamestrike, pumped Fan of Knives, Lightning Storm, Excavated Evil, Wild Pyromancer combo, etc., can set you back.
Given that you have to invest two cards (which are much less useful when not drawn together) to generate advantage only if your opponent plays a bunch of low cost minions and has no board clear, I'd say it's way too risky a move. Add to that that Protect the King is next to worthless against opponents who slow-roll threats (Rogues, Priests, most control decks, etc.) and I would not consider playing this.
(And, no, doing this for two creatures is not decent value wise. It's two cards and five crystals for two 3/3 taunts. You just played two slightly more efficient Ironfur Grizzlies, which is not good at all.)
Is Unstable Portal a wrose Arcane Intellect 90% of the time?
What are you even talking about.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
I was thinking that the PtK was a bit too gimmicky until I heard Firebats reviews. His main point wasn't that it was good with Bolster but that it was good with Brawl, since you then got a 50/50 shot at winning it. At worst it's just a Frost Nova, but sometimes you need to stall for a turn while doing other things.
Though I agree that putting it in a deck with Bolster seems kinda counter intuitive since you wanna be the proactive guy. Still, Unleash clears the board in a lot of occasions and if those hounds were 3/3's I could see them clearing the board and leaving a lot of bodies behind. The difference here is of course that the opponent gets to make the trades. I wouldn't completely ruin out the combo though. Right now Bolster doesn't have enough support, but that might change in the future.
No, but it gives me the context on which you base your argument. The metas are different at rank 20 and legend. Different cards can be better at different ranks.
Spawning non-charging minions isn't comparable with a board clear straight up. There's a card called flamestrike for example that will nullify the Ptk bolster play before it affects opponents board.
What do you guys think of PtK + Doomsayer?
It depends on the meta of course, but it gives CW another 5 mana clear. I haven't seen Doomsayer being played since before Standard so it might not be the right time to revisit him. Still, the combo seems quite strong.
A splendid argument. It conveys your point so well to extent that it seems as if it's a statement rather than an argument.
Bolster is still unplayable trash. Always will be.
Say "Wow" for RNG!
PTK + Bolster generates a shitload of stats, for very little mana. I would argue that it's quite valuable vs many decks i commonly face, and sometimes you simply dont have Brawl on hand. Yes, the opponent can do favorable trades, but having to endure him doing favorable trades is much preferrable to getting hit in the face a bunch of times.