Hearthpwn

Also, this isn't the official blizzard forum so there's no use reporting bugs here. This is what you want:

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/10591462/

Quote from Donutdragon >>

 

Is healing a problem? I'd say not really. I already disliked running Antique Healbot. The only matchup I needed healing is Face hunter or Face Paladin.. I've tried running Healing Wave but it has been a huge disappointment so far for several reasons. 1. I didn't need it in most matchups so running 2 of them isn't good. 2. Even against aggro I lost the joust more often than not because Shaman runs a lot of cheap minions. 3. Due to running only one and bad card draw I didn't drew the card when I needed it. 4. Does nothing to the board so It's bad against control and midrange.

This is only true for certain archetypes. Healing wave opens doors for things other than Midrange. The only time I see people say Healing Wave is bad is when they try it in non control/combo oriented strategies.

Everything else I agree with. Doesn't matter how much gas you have if you can't topdeck your Lightning Storm or Hex and drawing cards helps with that.

As far as it not being so bad: That's true, the class has many strong points to it and can compete against the tier 1 decks. But in competitive scenarios it doesn't matter how big the gap is between top of the power and bottom of the power, it's still a difference and if to play a weaker deck means you're relying more on your skill being higher than theirs and your luck to be better.

Quote from taurenchieftain93 >>

I was thinking about a tool similar to flamewaker for mage, or maybe not even a whirlwind effect/small aoe, maybe a minion that feeds of 1/1s like imp gang boss. I phrased it poorly in that post though, important thing about my proposed card is that it's effect cant hurt you and preferably has value even without combos, since shaman wants cards that can work well on their own and are versatile.

I ran Mad bombers for a weak wondering if that would help. It really just felt like a bad tempo mage at that point. I was sad.

Quote from Are_you >>

I would like to create a Dragon control deck too so I have a few questions.

Do you really need 4 Fire Elementals?
How often was Malygos necessary or useful to finish your enemy with Lightning Bolt and Lava Shock?
Why no Chillmaw?
How big are your Twilight Drakes
Only 1 Elemental Destruction?

My list (currently no Chillmaw or Malygos and only Senjis) is slower and I also play Bloodmage Thalnos to push my first big AOE. Yes he can fuck over joust, but he virtually decrease deck space so your more likely to draw into your Healing waves. But I'm questioning the combo kill with Malygos, because I better use my Lava Shock together with Elemental Destruction. Why not go full value with cards like Nefarian or Neptulon? In my test games he would have been kind of win more.

Fire Elemental is the best card in shaman, doubling the number of Fire Elementals is the best thing a shaman can do.

Ysera I needed 400 dust for a legendary and thought "i never use ysera". I think I crafter Al'Akir.

They aren't worse than useless. The are just worse than they used to be. They synergize with things like flametongue and bloodlust as well as healing totem. They are actually good against paladin and aggro decks as it saves your life and can get a 2-for-1 against their minions. In a patron meta it is not good, this is true, but that's true of any card depending on the meta. I think The Black Knight was amazing pre Naxx meta (it was miracle or heavy taunt decks aka pally, handlock, druid). Now you wouldn't really call TBK good. The wolves have potential to be good again if more overload rewarding cards get released. (Imagine a 2-mana draw a card for each locked crystal...i wish :'(   )

Quote from iandakar jump

Quote from AlchemistApprenticejump

Quote from Scipio_77jump

Quote from Ggjeedjump

You should posit the problem

You're entering a 3-deck best of 5 tournament, you are the worst player in it. What decks do you bring?

Highly punishing high-variance decks with potential of god hand where your opponent can't do anything and with variance-based high-impact cards (see Unstable Portal, Ragnaros the Firelord, Crackle, Murloc Knight etc.). Those give you the greatest chance to win due to possible blowout, whereas decks with consistency as the main merit, but (due to the nature of consisteny vs. variance balance) less immediate power and blowout chance (Control Warrior, Handlock, but also Patron Warrior or Warlock Zoo) will let you just die at the face of better plays from your opponent.

That's not why such cards are highly valued. 

Cards like Unstable Portal and Murloc Knight are a matter of low risk-high reward.  Portal is mostly used by Tempo mages who appreciate low cost spells to power their flamewakers and mana wyrms, so they gain value even if it drops a wisp.  When it's used just for the minion, it's either just to spend free mana or a last ditch gamble for tempo.  In those cases there's little to lose and much to gain.  Murloc Knight is similar.  Even if it drops a 2/1 well.. it's a second minion right along side a 1/1.  Paladins are spending 6 mana just to get the power to summon 2 1/1s.  A 4 mana card that, at WORST, gives a 2/1 alongside a 1/1 and gets better from there is a no-brainer.  

...

The decks that WERE cherished, and are cherished now?  Patron, which almost never has a bad hand.  Handlock, which is also very reliable.  Decks that don't always blowout but are consistent and reliable.  THOSE are the decks that win the most in HS.  High variance cards are tolerated if and ONLY if they can give a benefit more often than not.  Shredder occasionally drops Millhouse or doomsayer, but people play him because most times he drops SOMETHING that'll be more useful than empty space.  Juggler doesn't always hit Just The Right target, but the decks that play him do so because ANY damage is good damage most times.  

I think he had a point. Bringing Mech shaman when you aren't favored could actually be really helpful. But the percent is low for it to get you all the way through a tourny. I would go with mostly aggro decks. Zoo lock, face hunter, mech mage. Maybe aggro secret paladin instead of lock. To make up for being a weaker player I would want the games to have less decisions throughout and keep the opponent on the back foot so they don't have the turns to take advantage or their abilities. However, most people are used to facing aggro because of ladder, so maybe they would be ready for that. However, tournaments usually favor slower decks so that is what players prepare to face (like recently the play patron or full anti-patron deck strats). With all that meta thought just take what goes face and hope for good draws.

Quote from Infirc jump

It might help with some concepts, like effective trading, the importance of going plus, card advantage , seeing life/hp as a resource instead of the ultimate thing to protect and others but it won't entirely tach you about the game, for example combo decks like Patron and Oil rogue are far more effective in hearthstone that in mtg or yugioh just because those games allow you to play controlled effects in your opponent's turn, the combo could be partly stopped by countering the commander (mtg) or ahving a cyber dragon infinity and negating stuff til exhaustion (ygo) or simply activating solemn warning. 

It doesn't teach you about the meta, but you know how to analyse metas. Also, the combo decks are also simpler in HS. If someone has experience with Storm or Twin they should have an easy time with miracle or patron.

You should posit the problem

It puts a player ahead of the learning curve. You don't need to tell a magic player that drawing cards is awesome. You don't have to tell them the advantages of tempo or mana curve. They know to count lethal and to make bluffs and remember card bases. I think you understate the similarities between this and dota2 and lol. The experience you get in one means you are far ahead of someone with no previous experience. Sure, at a certain point a person without previous experience can catch up, but there is a big advantage being ahead already.

Quote from ReDEyeDz jump

Quote from Ggjeed jump

Grats and in a time where shaman is considered unplayable. 

No, its not. Stop saying bullshit.

Is shaman unplayable? - No.
Shaman can reach legend? - Yes.
Is shaman still worse than other top decks/classes? - Yes.

It is considered unplayable. It absolutely is considered by many to be unplayable. I never said they were right. I in fact was praising OP for proving that that consideration wrong.

Grats and in a time where shaman is considered unplayable. Thanks for keeping the dream alive!

Quote from MCFUser175154 jump

no1 plays bgh anymore

He's played against me all the time, so I don't believe you. It's also opening yourself up for huge blowouts to not play with him in mind. He has plenty of targets in this meta because Challengers often get buffed, Dr. Boom is still the premium legendary in most decks and i'm facing more control warrior as the days go on so there's a few high value targets there.

Re Fire Elemental: I want a deck of 30 fire elementals. I would try and put Bomb Lobber in my Dragon Shaman deck if it wasn't a 5 drop. Even 4-mana 3/3 that deals 3 damage to random enemy minion would appeal to me. I will say, that it can be slow if you are low on removal, and Fire Ele is actually a bitch if you have to play ED before hand. But it's such a great follow up after you've cleared their board and can start killing off their minions as they play them.

First thought is this deck has nothing holding it together. It's all over the place. Probably trying too many experiments at once.

With that out of the way we can look at the cards.

Charged Hammer - I want this to have a home somewhere. I wish it was 1 mana less or 2/3 or 3/4. It's just missing 1 improved stat from being a contender. But this needs to be tried everywhere and in every way. So far I just feel like I'm just out of the sweet spot for it, not quite there. I'm still trying, though.

Emperor Thaurissan - This card is better in shaman with Ancestral Knowledge, but still feels slow. In this deck especially you aren't trying to run too many mad combos that need to have mana reduction. It makes way more sense in decks with malygos where you can string crackle and free lightning bolts with it.

Fireguard Destroyer - If we're honest with ourselves, this should probably be Piloted Shredder. Especially since it isn't following up some sweet turns 1-3 minion spam. We have no way to make it's stats better than just pure stats. Even using TBV seems better in this slow (in spite of Charged Hammer)

Volcanic Drake - I see what the goal is here, turn 5 Ele Destruction into cheap Drake, the dream seems unreliable. As a potentially impactful 1-of in main dragon shaman, sure. There is has less cost for the benefit (2 cards in 30 slots is a hefty cost for potential vanilla 6 mana 6/4)

Blackwing Corruptor - The more Fire Elementals we can fit in a deck, the better. Speaking of, where are your Fire Elementals?

Earth Elemental - The only thing I feel this has going for it is it can eat a BGH before Neptulon, Nefarion, or Boom take it. I've experienced for months a very real issue that playing a few high power taunts is not effective. Unless every turn or second turn is a taunt, you're just giving them owl targets when they want to punch through. As a 1-of this doesn't come in at 5 often enough (or it's in starting hand and feelsbadman). If it does come in on 5 versus a fast deck you're 1-2 turns from dead (unless you got really good trades off your Twilight Guardians) and they silence for the kill. Crusher shaman's success with Earth Ele's is because of the quantity of big taunt minions it can unleash in a similar way of handlocks taunt giant spam

Wild Pyromancer  -Now this is a card I'm in love with. Almost as much as Charged Hammer. It has two problems that make me sad. 1: Needing spells to make it work means you can't value 2-drop it often enough and you could just find yourself not having enough spells to proc it. (But if you have the spells and a healing totem and it starts grinding away, oh man is it amazing!) So it's often a 2-card combo for Lightning Storms 5 and 6. Problem 2: This card is actually not that great against face hunter. Unless you get their turns 1-3 X/1s (hopefully 3 of them) the value isn't enough to stop the damage onslaught. This is because charge is a huge thing! It's also not really that great against zoo lock and it could be a viability against patron. However, it's still a card worth playing and figuring out exactly when/how to play it.

Lightning Bolt - As much as I truly hate Crackle for it's RNG, if you are running 2 burn spells (usually as removal) Crackle is better. Most of the time it single handedly deals with x/4 value minions (Flamewaker, Armorsmith) and can even gain huge value against x/5s and x/6s (i never use it on 6 unless I have backup). It's also better at targeting the face because it can't be worse than bolt.

The big question now is what direction do we want to go with experimentation. Either we're trying to solve a problem in the shaman class (Wild Pyromancer as extra ways to clear board swarm) or we trying to master a card (Charged Hammer). This deck even added in trying to exploit broken combos (board clear and volcanic drake). We should narrow it down more.

On your deck page you say "outvalue with Nef and Nept". If you want cards that generate value, totemic and piloted shredder could fit. I think having Fire Elementals are great at this, as well. I think the best thing shaman can do is to try and get 2-for-1s with every card. I'm currently seeing what Bomb Lobber is like (as a non-dragon deck variant of Blackwing Corruptor) along with Mad Bomber. Noodle Champion Salad is also a good thing to try. Heck, maybe just throw some inspire in there for value (just make sure to always get Murloc Knight from Neptulon). Maybe try Ysera instead of emporer. Maybe with Wild Pyromancer you would want Ancestral Healing and Injured Kvoldir (also works well with healing totem and LIGHTWARDEN! probably not that good, but man the possibilities). I also actually tried Tournament Medic (it's bad, i was sad). It's not that hard for me to find reason to summon totems, so getting extra value from that button might be sweet.

Keep up the expirements!

I have a charged hammer inspire deck that was able to win games at rank 18 :P