As much as I think you could have done this in a much more polite way, a lot of the comments were actually spot on. The meta changes, and it there are often some "leftovers" with cards that were heavliy impacted by nerfs and expansions. These updates were made:
Scourgelord Garrosh does surprisingly well, and will always be a strong card whenever odd paladin is a top deck. Valeera the Hollow sees a lot of play, but has always had a low winrate, except for a brief moment in the heyday of Kingsbane rogue. Malfurion the Pestilent is also still a very powerful card for druid, and is keeping the class from falling out of the game completely (albiet, it is close!)
The "safe keeps if you open them" cards are generally in tier 3, and it should be obvious if you open them. The Black Knight is played little, but has an ok winrate and is so much of a "tech" card it was put in tier 2. Tier 3 is obviously also an option.
Ok first of all sorry if my approach seemed a bit aggresive, I was just having a bad day so my apologies to you and any other mod or forum member that felt attacked or something.
Regarding to the changes made I agree completely, great job.
Finally regarding Garrosh, you are actually proving my point, it's a bad card, even when odd paladin is such a good deck this card barely sees play, I haven't faced a single Warrior DK this entire year, not an exaggeration. I think cards in this kind of tier list again should be more objective. What I mean is for example a cards like Prophet Velen has never been actually good enough to see play on its own but it has been an absolute staple on some of the most powerful decks in HS history (Raza and Gallery Priest) and you realistically couldn't (Can't in gallery's case) play those decks without such card, but as you said this tier list is supposed to be updated based on the meta right? So Velen is tier 1 even if on its own it isn't good enough to be considered that good. On the other hand a card like The Lich King is strong enough to be in such rating regardless on the meta right? But what if there are no good decks for him? Should I craft a card that's good but realistically sees no play? Or should I craft a card that maybe isn't that great on a 1v1 basis but it's necessary for one of the best decks in the game currently? What I'm trying to get to is that this rating system should be based on current play rate and how important is that card for an x deck vs. how good the said (And basically how core) on that deck.
I say so cause this list is obviously aimed for new/unexperienced players right? and they probably need more of the what cards are good now and will stay good for a while instead of what cards are good but see no play and some other cards that could maybe be good in the future. That's the reason I say a card like Dk Garrosh is just bad cause being 100% honest you're never gonna see him on a top tier deck and you probably would want to spend that 1600 dust on a bunch of other better legendaries.
This tier list is misleading af, how is thekal a tier 1 legendary? No one plays him, he's effect is too slow and only good if played super early, not saying he's bad but for sure not tier 1.
Also no way cloning gallery and myra's are below such cards, they are both insane cards that make certain archetypes (very strong archetypes) viable, they should both be tier 1 and for sure rated higher that thekal. Who made this list, Grumble tier 2? It sees 0 play since the saronite nerf, what if someone crafts him thinking it's good, to then realize that it doesn't properly fit into any deck. Same with DK Garrosh and Thrall, when was the last you saw those cards played at all, they are just bad, definitely shouldn't be on a tier 2 list for legendaries to craft, this guide is extremely misleading and meme honestly. A lot of the cards are in the right spot but a ridiculous amounts of others are either too high up or just seem to be underestimated for whatever reason, you guys should really revise this tier list and fix it ASAP.
Jesus I just realized that Valeera and Malfurion are rated lower than fricking Thrall and Garrosh, seriously who made this list? Valeera is not seeing a ton of play now (the rare quest and maly sometimes) but it definitely sees way more play that Thrall or Garrosh and it's infinitely better if we just consider each of those 3 cards in a vacuum. Same with Malf, Druid is almost gone after the nerfs and not a single druid list is running it but again, on a vacuum it's miles better than Thrall and Garrosh and those 2 don't see any play at all and rarely have. Valeera should either be like low tier 2 (I know there's not such a rating but you could give a description like this is barely tier 2 cause of its power level but it doesn't have a lot of space in this meta) or leave it at tier 3 but fix the other ones. Malf should be tier 3 and even maybe 4 cause now it's extremely niche. Thrall should be tier 4 at most cause it can be mediocre in some situations but nothing more, probably even tier 5 that card saw little play on the KFT meta and even more fringe play last meta with tempo shudderwock, otherwise it's garbage and borderline unplayable, token and mid-range shaman are not real decks and the only other shaman deck (other than even) is aggro shaman and that deck doesn't run DK either. Finally Garrosh is just terrible, it saw play on DMH warrior cause there were literally no other good cards, it hasn't seen any play since and it's just a terrible card, specially when there's Dr.Boom (which isn't too crazy either).
Tier lists should be absolutely objective and this one doesn't seem like it, it can be very misleading to new and unexperienced players, like I know the mentioned cards are bad and see absolutely no play so I won't spend my dust on Thekal or Thrall even if you rank them so high (for what they actually achieve and the amount of play they see) but new players don't know any better and they will trust this kind of guides. Also you can't put a card high up just cause it may be good in the future or something like that, what if it doesn't get better in the future? Even with cards that have crazy effects like Thekal you never know, it might still be too slow and not worth in the future, who knows. If you're gonna do stuff like that you should have an unraked tier that's like NOT WORTH TO CRAFT BUT SAFE TO KEEP IF YOU OPEN IT, in which you could put cards like Cairne, Black Knight, Deathwing, Floop's Gloop and other cards that you shouldn't be crafting but that you should keep if you ever open them cause they're ok/decent and have such powerful/unique effects that could possibly see play in the future but it's uncertain,
SERIOUSLY GUYS GO THROUGH THIS TIER LIST AGAIN AND FIX ALL THOSE CARDS THAT ARE POORLY RATED (and some others I didn't mention) CAUSE GETTING FUCKED AS A NEW PLAYER CAN RUIN THE GAME FOR YOU. We were all there and dust is as precious as life when you're starting, no need to wreck unexperienced players when we could be helping them.
Valeera is a great card but it's just not the right meta for her, and also rogue is almost doomed to be the one-trick miracle pony forever, every other archetype that comes up either ends up rekt by blizzard (like they annihilated tempo rogue this expansion) or it just isn't solid enough to be good (like mill kingsbane which has some good match-ups but a million other very shitty ones), but hey, with the rotation it could stop just having the one eternal deck, who knows.
About Garrosh, well he's just terrible really the shadowmorne is an insane weapon but after that he's just usless, I much rather have the 2 armor every turn that having a useless over-costed whirlwind and honeslty having the 3 turns of busted weapon is not enough to justify the high cost and shittiness of it afterwards.
Still you shouldn't craft something so expensive now, with the rotation and new expansion coming everything will change, maybe Valeera becomes meta and a must or maybe it will completely die with Coldlight going to HoF as it's only currently used in mill rogue. As for Garrosh I highly doubt it'll ever be good as the card itself is just bad, it isn't like Valeera, a card with an insane effect that just doesn't have the proper meta and class cards to work at its full potential in a variety of decks, Garrosh is just good for 3 turns and then it's useless and the good old armor hero power is superior in almost every aspect.
Nah that deck runs out of cards super quick you need the alu to refill, you can reach 15 and maybe 10 but I don't see you going past that without the weapon
you are misunderstanding me... What I am saying is, That I probably will not have that much fun with Aluneth secret mage, If I did not like secret mage very much in the first place...
Oh ok sorry, well is pretty much the same deck, you now run lackeys and corridor creeper and the deck feels more solid cause of explosive runes and aluneth but in terms of gameplay is pretty much the same stuff
Do u think its still worth it if I think normal secret mage is a little dull? thnx
What do you mean by normal?
Well secret mage before Legendary weapon, that draw shitloads of cards, would be the 'normal version'. ;)
Nah that deck runs out of cards super quick you need the alu to refill, you can reach 15 and maybe 10 but I don't see you going past that without the weapon
Can someone tell me a sober opinion on weather its worth crafting Aluneth right now? Do I have to be a big fan of Secret Mage to enjoy it? And is it still performing well on ladder? I feel u don't see it that much these days. and it seems to have faded to the back of the top lists... what's ur take?
thnx
The deck is losing power atm but it's still a very solid option for ladder, and aluneth is a key piece for that deck so if you enjoy secret mage and want to play a lot of that then go for it, you can for sure hit rank 5 with it , I would recommend going for the list with more burn (The one that runs 1 o 2 Firelands portal and a pyroblast) as it's imo more solid and you can get easier wins vs cubelock and raza priest.
Do u think its still worth it if I think normal secret mage is a little dull? thnx
Can someone tell me a sober opinion on weather its worth crafting Aluneth right now? Do I have to be a big fan of Secret Mage to enjoy it? And is it still performing well on ladder? I feel u don't see it that much these days. and it seems to have faded to the back of the top lists... what's ur take?
thnx
The deck is losing power atm but it's still a very solid option for ladder, and aluneth is a key piece for that deck so if you enjoy secret mage and want to play a lot of that then go for it, you can for sure hit rank 5 with it , I would recommend going for the list with more burn (The one that runs 1 o 2 Firelands portal and a pyroblast) as it's imo more solid and you can get easier wins vs cubelock and raza priest.
I already have 2x Call to arms, 2x creepers, leeroy and only missing tarim and patches for a good aggro paladin deck. So i am not gonna craft a lot stuff for it but just Tarim. I know patches is the best aggro card but like you said i dont want a craft a leg. that will rotate in 3 months.
Well as I said Tarim on its own is a very strong card and super safe craft but if you are planning on crafting him just to build the aggro paladin maybe it's not the best use for your dust, the order of importance on the legendaries for aggro paladin is Patches>Tarim> Leeroy> Val'anyr and patches unlocks such a wide range of options like Tempo rogue, Aggro Druid, Zoolock, Spiteful Keleseth priest, Spiteful pirate warrior, Aggro paladin, Face hunter, evolve shaman and even mage use it on some tempo secret build with deckhands so Patches is the definition of a high value card, it can be used in every single class and it make every single fast deck a whole lot better, so if you want my honest advice it would be to craft Patches even with him rotating on april and then go for Tarim, if I can't convince you on patches Tarim is still fine and you can try the deck still and you would probably do fine I guess, you can easily reach rank 15-10 without Patches but from there you might struggle and your winrate willl suffer, just to show how important is patches the 3rd card with the highest winrate when played on aggro pally according to HSREPLAY is actually Southsea deckhand, only behind CtAs and Tarim which are busted af cards for that archetype and the only reason being that he brings patches with him, that's how strong of a legendary patches is.
As related to topic, i was thinking to craft Sunkeeper Tarim for aggro paladin (or murloc optionally) but i dont have patches and no intend to craft it. So without patches is it still safe to go with tarim and aggro pally?
Tarim and Call to arms are pretty safe crafts, if you plan to play paladin they're both gonna be played in any paladin archetype for the next year for sure but honestly aggro paladin loses a lot without patches, any aggro deck does, I understand you might want to stay away from a legendary that rotates in 4 months but patches is the best neutral legendary by far and is probably on the top 3 on the current meta, top 5 at worst, so I don't feel like it's responsible to recommend crafting aggro paladin without having patches honestly.
Two Call to Arms seems the way to go for expensive cards. You can make a pretty decent fun deck with just that and a bunch of low costing minions! :)
really depends on what archetype you want, if it's aggro you need CtA, and Tarim for sure and then patches and our friendly neighbor corridor creeper (I think those are the only expensive cards), if you want murlocs you need all the same as I previously said + Inquisitors, Warleaders, Megasaurs and if you want to play something more mid-range or control oriented you need Tarim, CtA, Dirty Rats, and Tirion.
Well the card is fine and it sees play from time to time on mid-range and control decks as a panic button and last resort come back mechanic so I would keep him, I think he falls in the legendary category of: Nice to have it if you open it but not good enough to be worth crafting.
Should I craft Leeroy to complete my tempo kelly rogue deck or 2xliving mana so I can play aggro druid. I know Leeroy is only.really played in tempo rogue currently and that living mana, for obvioua reasons is only playable on aggro druid, so according to you guys which of those cards should I craft and why, thanks in advance.
Should I craft Leeroy to complete my tempo kelly rogue deck or 2xliving mana so I can play aggro druid. I know Leeroy is only.really played in tempo rogue currently and that living mana, for obvioua reasons is only playable on aggro druid, so according to you guys which of those cards should I craft and why, thanks in advance.
Hey guys is it Valuable to craft Razanduin deck At this moment !? or saving dust for coming meta changes?
I would wait a cuple of days just to see what the new cards look like. Keep in mind Highlander Priest will be rotating on 2018 if you only play standard
I doubt there will be something so big to punch razakus priest out of the top tiers, if anything it will either get better or stay in the same power level and you still have like ~6 months to enjoy it on standart and that is enough on my book but I wouldn't advice crafting anything and specially using heavy loads on dust on decks when an expansion is 3 weeks away, as I said I'm 100% sure it's a safe craft but there might be other decks or cards that you find more enjoyable/better when the set releases or some cards on the deck could fit it better or just be more efficient so it's better to wait at this point.
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Ok first of all sorry if my approach seemed a bit aggresive, I was just having a bad day so my apologies to you and any other mod or forum member that felt attacked or something.
Regarding to the changes made I agree completely, great job.
Finally regarding Garrosh, you are actually proving my point, it's a bad card, even when odd paladin is such a good deck this card barely sees play, I haven't faced a single Warrior DK this entire year, not an exaggeration. I think cards in this kind of tier list again should be more objective. What I mean is for example a cards like Prophet Velen has never been actually good enough to see play on its own but it has been an absolute staple on some of the most powerful decks in HS history (Raza and Gallery Priest) and you realistically couldn't (Can't in gallery's case) play those decks without such card, but as you said this tier list is supposed to be updated based on the meta right? So Velen is tier 1 even if on its own it isn't good enough to be considered that good. On the other hand a card like The Lich King is strong enough to be in such rating regardless on the meta right? But what if there are no good decks for him? Should I craft a card that's good but realistically sees no play? Or should I craft a card that maybe isn't that great on a 1v1 basis but it's necessary for one of the best decks in the game currently? What I'm trying to get to is that this rating system should be based on current play rate and how important is that card for an x deck vs. how good the said (And basically how core) on that deck.
I say so cause this list is obviously aimed for new/unexperienced players right? and they probably need more of the what cards are good now and will stay good for a while instead of what cards are good but see no play and some other cards that could maybe be good in the future. That's the reason I say a card like Dk Garrosh is just bad cause being 100% honest you're never gonna see him on a top tier deck and you probably would want to spend that 1600 dust on a bunch of other better legendaries.
This tier list is misleading af, how is thekal a tier 1 legendary? No one plays him, he's effect is too slow and only good if played super early, not saying he's bad but for sure not tier 1.
Also no way cloning gallery and myra's are below such cards, they are both insane cards that make certain archetypes (very strong archetypes) viable, they should both be tier 1 and for sure rated higher that thekal. Who made this list, Grumble tier 2? It sees 0 play since the saronite nerf, what if someone crafts him thinking it's good, to then realize that it doesn't properly fit into any deck. Same with DK Garrosh and Thrall, when was the last you saw those cards played at all, they are just bad, definitely shouldn't be on a tier 2 list for legendaries to craft, this guide is extremely misleading and meme honestly. A lot of the cards are in the right spot but a ridiculous amounts of others are either too high up or just seem to be underestimated for whatever reason, you guys should really revise this tier list and fix it ASAP.
Jesus I just realized that Valeera and Malfurion are rated lower than fricking Thrall and Garrosh, seriously who made this list? Valeera is not seeing a ton of play now (the rare quest and maly sometimes) but it definitely sees way more play that Thrall or Garrosh and it's infinitely better if we just consider each of those 3 cards in a vacuum. Same with Malf, Druid is almost gone after the nerfs and not a single druid list is running it but again, on a vacuum it's miles better than Thrall and Garrosh and those 2 don't see any play at all and rarely have. Valeera should either be like low tier 2 (I know there's not such a rating but you could give a description like this is barely tier 2 cause of its power level but it doesn't have a lot of space in this meta) or leave it at tier 3 but fix the other ones. Malf should be tier 3 and even maybe 4 cause now it's extremely niche. Thrall should be tier 4 at most cause it can be mediocre in some situations but nothing more, probably even tier 5 that card saw little play on the KFT meta and even more fringe play last meta with tempo shudderwock, otherwise it's garbage and borderline unplayable, token and mid-range shaman are not real decks and the only other shaman deck (other than even) is aggro shaman and that deck doesn't run DK either. Finally Garrosh is just terrible, it saw play on DMH warrior cause there were literally no other good cards, it hasn't seen any play since and it's just a terrible card, specially when there's Dr.Boom (which isn't too crazy either).
Tier lists should be absolutely objective and this one doesn't seem like it, it can be very misleading to new and unexperienced players, like I know the mentioned cards are bad and see absolutely no play so I won't spend my dust on Thekal or Thrall even if you rank them so high (for what they actually achieve and the amount of play they see) but new players don't know any better and they will trust this kind of guides. Also you can't put a card high up just cause it may be good in the future or something like that, what if it doesn't get better in the future? Even with cards that have crazy effects like Thekal you never know, it might still be too slow and not worth in the future, who knows. If you're gonna do stuff like that you should have an unraked tier that's like NOT WORTH TO CRAFT BUT SAFE TO KEEP IF YOU OPEN IT, in which you could put cards like Cairne, Black Knight, Deathwing, Floop's Gloop and other cards that you shouldn't be crafting but that you should keep if you ever open them cause they're ok/decent and have such powerful/unique effects that could possibly see play in the future but it's uncertain,
SERIOUSLY GUYS GO THROUGH THIS TIER LIST AGAIN AND FIX ALL THOSE CARDS THAT ARE POORLY RATED (and some others I didn't mention) CAUSE GETTING FUCKED AS A NEW PLAYER CAN RUIN THE GAME FOR YOU. We were all there and dust is as precious as life when you're starting, no need to wreck unexperienced players when we could be helping them.
Valeera is a great card but it's just not the right meta for her, and also rogue is almost doomed to be the one-trick miracle pony forever, every other archetype that comes up either ends up rekt by blizzard (like they annihilated tempo rogue this expansion) or it just isn't solid enough to be good (like mill kingsbane which has some good match-ups but a million other very shitty ones), but hey, with the rotation it could stop just having the one eternal deck, who knows.
About Garrosh, well he's just terrible really the shadowmorne is an insane weapon but after that he's just usless, I much rather have the 2 armor every turn that having a useless over-costed whirlwind and honeslty having the 3 turns of busted weapon is not enough to justify the high cost and shittiness of it afterwards.
Still you shouldn't craft something so expensive now, with the rotation and new expansion coming everything will change, maybe Valeera becomes meta and a must or maybe it will completely die with Coldlight going to HoF as it's only currently used in mill rogue. As for Garrosh I highly doubt it'll ever be good as the card itself is just bad, it isn't like Valeera, a card with an insane effect that just doesn't have the proper meta and class cards to work at its full potential in a variety of decks, Garrosh is just good for 3 turns and then it's useless and the good old armor hero power is superior in almost every aspect.
Well the card is fine and it sees play from time to time on mid-range and control decks as a panic button and last resort come back mechanic so I would keep him, I think he falls in the legendary category of: Nice to have it if you open it but not good enough to be worth crafting.
Should I craft Leeroy to complete my tempo kelly rogue deck or 2xliving mana so I can play aggro druid. I know Leeroy is only.really played in tempo rogue currently and that living mana, for obvioua reasons is only playable on aggro druid, so according to you guys which of those cards should I craft and why, thanks in advance.