It is frustrating that they turned pirate warrior (standard, not even going into wild) into a deck for idiots to get wins with. They saw from the numbers it was a popular deck - even prior to MR smite or even the buffs. I mean lets be clear- at expansion lauch the deck was WEAK. They buffed it hard becasue they saw people were playing with it in large numbers anyway.
The reason it's popular is becasue it was minion based, and it didn't just play itself - it was the only viable minion based mid-range deck that played out in a kinda traditional hearthstone way (and it really wasn't that viable at sub-50 winrate). Now they've buffed it to the moon and added Mr Smite it is no longer fun to play, and closer to 60% winrate. It feels dirtylike pre-nerf warlock/mage - I know by playing it I am ruining the game for my opponent, and wins aren't satisfying with broken play after broken play.
The lesson Blizzard need learn from this is dial it back a bit, go back to minion based combat, and less BS decks designed to give Timmy wins and completely remove the game from your opponent. Less High rolls, less broken shit, less damage from nowhere. More minions with cool effects that don't immediately (or within three turns) win the game, and room to play them. FFS Blizzard, deal with power creep.
How to fix quests: Make effect not permanent, but for x turns, like “Your hero has + 2 Spell damage for next 5 turns”
this is trash
Doesn’t do anything about the burn-based decks either. Any decent Mage, Warlock, or Hunter would hit lethal before the 5 turns were up just like they do now
Honestly its super funny, its not even standard. It's literally every aspect of the game that this deck is allowed to break its truly a momentous moment in hearthstone. From Wild to Standard to even Duels it is oppressing literally everything. Its so ridiculous that people are queuing up a featured game mode (free btw) and just running this crap over and over and over again. I'm surprised that bliz even has people playing this game anymore like many streamers have abandoned this game already and for good reason.
It's the same shit every expansion, for years and years. After a few days one way too opressive deck emerges, with a winrate way above the rest. Next step is nerfing said deck into the ground so the next opressive deck can emerge.
This is because there is no balance in the meta, on purpose. Blizzard does know how to balance things, because they can shell out patches with balance fixes in them and they usually work, albeit often being too much to the other side of the board. This is what Blizzard wants though; There always needs to be a deck that average joe can copy and win with, and is not too hard to play. Currently it's quest warrior, before that in this meta it was Quest mage, etc. There's a long list of decks going back about 10 years that achieved this purpose.
And yet, with all the complaining, people still happily shell out their 80 bucks for those new shiny cards every 3 months, knowing full well that a new one of these decks will emerge a few days later. This is the exact reason they keep doing this, because the business model works. I've stopped playing standard hs regularly and paying money to blizzard years ago for this exact reason, just getting to legend or close to it each month (usually around 30-ish games per month) to gather the rewards/gold, so i can keep my collection up to date just with gold, in the, probably, idle hope that things will ever change for the better again. As long as people keep shelling their money out every 3 months though, there will be no change at all, money talks.
It's the same shit every expansion, for years and years. After a few days one way too opressive deck emerges, with a winrate way above the rest. Next step is nerfing said deck into the ground so the next opressive deck can emerge.
This is because there is no balance in the meta, on purpose. Blizzard does know how to balance things, because they can shell out patches with balance fixes in them and they usually work, albeit often being too much to the other side of the board. This is what Blizzard wants though; There always needs to be a deck that average joe can copy and win with, and is not too hard to play. Currently it's quest warrior, before that in this meta it was Quest mage, etc. There's a long list of decks going back about 10 years that achieved this purpose.
And yet, with all the complaining, people still happily shell out their 80 bucks for those new shiny cards every 3 months, knowing full well that a new one of these decks will emerge a few days later. This is the exact reason they keep doing this, because the business model works. I've stopped playing standard hs regularly and paying money to blizzard years ago for this exact reason, just getting to legend or close to it each month (usually around 30-ish games per month) to gather the rewards/gold, so i can keep my collection up to date just with gold, in the, probably, idle hope that things will ever change for the better again. As long as people keep shelling their money out every 3 months though, there will be no change at all, money talks.
There are certain oppressive decks that feel better to face than others...
At this point, if what you said is true, I'll be happy to see how Pirate Warrior can get nerf into the ground so people can't play it on ladder anymore
Pirate warrior is not even a top deck, it has strong counters. Druid was on a rampage until the razormane battleguard nerf and handlock still destroys it. I’ll chime in and complain about one thing I don’t like though, and that’s the slot machine variability of the juggernaut. Sometimes it’s whetstone hatchet or ringleaders wand and any of the low stat battlecry pirates… womp womp. Then they hit Mr. Smite or gorehowl for free and win on the spot. Just gorehowl for free, means Mr. Smite and Bloodsail Raider from hand is 22 damage to face from hand for 8 mana and that feels bad.
It is pretty bad. I play quest Shaman. I can do about 50% vs. pirate warrior because I have good removal vs. the smaller minions. The one I can't stand and refuse to play is the quest warlock. They effectively remove all of my minions while gaining health. If I do get them in trouble they pull out the big minions which I don't have enough removal for.
I'm a little concerned about the upcoming release. There are no support cards for my type of deck. Maybe I can switch out and play the hero card if it has enough value (I think it does). I am worried that some of these new decks will be very powerful. I think the new warlock variant will be nasty.
On a positive note, mage has been neutered. That deck was horrible to play against.
Welcome to late expansion ladder, thisjis nothing new for the entirety of Hearthstones life.
Players will always figure out the most efficient decks and the base will gravitate towards them. This got a lot worse in recent years as T5 moved away from the rock paper scissor model. At least in previous years hard counters would keep the meta rotating a little.
It is pretty bad. I play quest Shaman. I can do about 50% vs. pirate warrior because I have good removal vs. the smaller minions. The one I can't stand and refuse to play is the quest warlock. They effectively remove all of my minions while gaining health. If I do get them in trouble they pull out the big minions which I don't have enough removal for.
I'm a little concerned about the upcoming release. There are no support cards for my type of deck. Maybe I can switch out and play the hero card if it has enough value (I think it does). I am worried that some of these new decks will be very powerful. I think the new warlock variant will be nasty.
On a positive note, mage has been neutered. That deck was horrible to play against.
I personally hate the Warlock Quest more than Quest Warrior as well, even though Defias Cannonneer is a ridiculous card as of right now and needs a nerf (which i think would end up taking care of the problem). With Quest Warlocks i don’t even care if their overall winrate is 33% or something, i just want their whole decklist wiped from the earth. There’s so many giants that cost no mana, free 6/6 taunts, free 5/4 rush minions that get resurrected by Raise Dead. And on top of it all they go through their whole deck and then burn you with their own fatigue. No wonder people only want to play dumb aggro decks with that sort of garbage around
agreed with the post mentioning how they removed every weakness from the pirate decks. Especially in wild. And we can feel it's on purpose because no dev team can be stupid enough and blind for such a long period that they still see this as tolerable.
So it's probably the money talking as someone else on this post mentioned. Fuckers
For me the main issue with quest warrior isn't actually the quest (although that does have some swingy RNG to it as well). The main issue is that the "deck limitations" of completing the quest are actually all just overstated/undercosted minions who provide great tempo and/or card draw while progressing the quest, and there's nothing that really gets in the way of it (and no real thought required in the design of the deck). All of the minions (with the exception of Bloodsail Raider and maybe Cargo Guard) can objectively be considered OP (or at least very good) when compared to their mana cost, and the deck synergy is so high it's almost as if it were by design..../s
Bloodsail Deckhand - premium stats and and directed mana discount battlecry which carries over from the current turn
Harbor Scamp - mediocre stats + a tutor of a specific type of card. Bascially a 2-for-1 in quest completion.
Defias Cannoneer - very overpowered effect for the mana cost, particularly given it procs every turn and the weapons are often cheap/free. A very high tempo card when played at the right time (and combo'd with the 2nd stage quest reward), and at worse 4 extra face damage on an empty board
Sword Eater - mediocre stats but a "free" weapon valued at 3 mana (so arguably a 1 mana 2/5 Taunt)
Stonemaul Anchorman - decent stats, draw and tempo all rolled into one. I have no idea why they buffed this guy
Fogsail Freebooter - would be a fair card except for the fact the player is nearly garaunteed to have a weapon (which is often free)
Southsea Captain - buffs all minions in the deck (basically) for 3 mana.
Mr. Smite - a stupid card with a stupid effect. Would still be good if he either had charge (but didn't grant it) or wasn't a pirate himself.
Wrap all of these up in a non-quest deck and I still think you would have a very good tempo deck which still has a finisher in Mr. Smite. Add in the quest and you get some extra draw, some extra tempo and some infinite value all in exchange for losing turn 1 (and one card).
The deck isn't unbeatable all of the time, but it definitely doens't feel like a fair fight, and even seemingly lost games can turn on a juggernaut RNG swing. Maybe taunt druid recks it (although I struggle to see how given how pirate warrior can easily be tweaked to be more anti-aggro), but just because another OP deck happens to beat this one doesn't make either of them right.
Sadly based on the new cards, the solution too all the previous power creep is (in the word of Jeremy Clarskon) - MORE POWER!
The meta is really funny, isn't it? - right now it looks like I have a positive win rate against pirate warrior in standard using a non-quest, spell power mage deck that keeps clearing the minions away with cheap, efficient removal. It also does really well against aggro druid... but that's another thread.
But then of course I run into stuff like questline fatigue warlock, and there's nothing to do - they have removal for days and the end-game win is inevitable.
I mean, it'd be nice if matches weren't so polarized. It sucks to queue into a class and kinda know how the game is going to shake out... but then you lather on the luck of the draw and any other RNG and there's always a chance it can swing one way or the other.
So, I dunno, I guess what I'm trying to say is... quest pirate warrior is strong, but it's not unbeatable. And that's how the cookie crumbles.
It just completes itself so damn fast by playing minions which are way ahead of the power curve Turn 4 sword eater for example deals with every board out there in the current meta. I think that's part of the frustration, the minions all have powerful and damaging battlecries and statted way ahead of the curve,
At the very least the quest needs the shaman/warlock nerf treatment - slow it down. A hyper aggressive deck which deals way too much damage being rewarded an endgame control card that outvalues most things feels cheesy given that it always gets completed by turn 6/7 just by spamming overstatted minions out. Make the second and third stages play three pirates at the very least. Do the same for hunter quest too, odd quest hunter is absolutely dumping on wild right now also.
Mr Smite is the biggest problem that I see with it. If the juggernaut spawns him and the warrior has 1-2 pirates in hand (which they usually do) its instant 10+ dmg not even counting the weapon they randomly get.
I don't get WHY they made such a high damage charge minion after going totally away from them in favor of rush... I just don't get it. Of make him not have charge and just grant it at least that would tone it down. It's seeing play in other decks and offering ridiculous burst (buff pally, rogue and their shadowstep shenanigans) but at least those aren't as oppressive as pirate warrior.
I'd like them to nerf stats at the very least... otherwise reduce its cost 1 and make it Rush give your other pirates rush. Then it could be used to clear boards but not as 10+ burst out of nowhere.
I got killed by a random generated Mr Smite topped with random Gorehowl into a played Mr Smite and the 3/3 bomb your opponent. 26 damage ( 2 overkill). Yeah I know that's rare and RNG.. but still pretty disgusting.
#OutOfSalt
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Imo, developers' noticing unbalance and intervening period is too long.
(Except, If OP deck is Shaman. eg Galakrond Shaman, Elemental Shaman etc)
it's a blizzard game, it will never balanced...so stop complain
It is frustrating that they turned pirate warrior (standard, not even going into wild) into a deck for idiots to get wins with. They saw from the numbers it was a popular deck - even prior to MR smite or even the buffs. I mean lets be clear- at expansion lauch the deck was WEAK. They buffed it hard becasue they saw people were playing with it in large numbers anyway.
The reason it's popular is becasue it was minion based, and it didn't just play itself - it was the only viable minion based mid-range deck that played out in a kinda traditional hearthstone way (and it really wasn't that viable at sub-50 winrate). Now they've buffed it to the moon and added Mr Smite it is no longer fun to play, and closer to 60% winrate. It feels dirty like pre-nerf warlock/mage - I know by playing it I am ruining the game for my opponent, and wins aren't satisfying with broken play after broken play.
The lesson Blizzard need learn from this is dial it back a bit, go back to minion based combat, and less BS decks designed to give Timmy wins and completely remove the game from your opponent. Less High rolls, less broken shit, less damage from nowhere. More minions with cool effects that don't immediately (or within three turns) win the game, and room to play them. FFS Blizzard, deal with power creep.
And also any OP Priest deck
this is trash
Doesn’t do anything about the burn-based decks either. Any decent Mage, Warlock, or Hunter would hit lethal before the 5 turns were up just like they do now
Honestly its super funny, its not even standard. It's literally every aspect of the game that this deck is allowed to break its truly a momentous moment in hearthstone. From Wild to Standard to even Duels it is oppressing literally everything. Its so ridiculous that people are queuing up a featured game mode (free btw) and just running this crap over and over and over again. I'm surprised that bliz even has people playing this game anymore like many streamers have abandoned this game already and for good reason.
It's the same shit every expansion, for years and years. After a few days one way too opressive deck emerges, with a winrate way above the rest.
Next step is nerfing said deck into the ground so the next opressive deck can emerge.
This is because there is no balance in the meta, on purpose. Blizzard does know how to balance things, because they can shell out patches with balance fixes in them and they usually work, albeit often being too much to the other side of the board.
This is what Blizzard wants though; There always needs to be a deck that average joe can copy and win with, and is not too hard to play. Currently it's quest warrior, before that in this meta it was Quest mage, etc. There's a long list of decks going back about 10 years that achieved this purpose.
And yet, with all the complaining, people still happily shell out their 80 bucks for those new shiny cards every 3 months, knowing full well that a new one of these decks will emerge a few days later. This is the exact reason they keep doing this, because the business model works.
I've stopped playing standard hs regularly and paying money to blizzard years ago for this exact reason, just getting to legend or close to it each month (usually around 30-ish games per month) to gather the rewards/gold, so i can keep my collection up to date just with gold, in the, probably, idle hope that things will ever change for the better again.
As long as people keep shelling their money out every 3 months though, there will be no change at all, money talks.
Wait for the next expansion: "Dollar Signs in Ogrimar"
Includes a "free" Legendary that will buff your HP to 100 (so you can somewhat survive the new Questlines), and a new Pay2Win Button!
Just press the Button, pay 10 Dollars, and you automatically win against whatever opponent you face! ;D
Sorry to disagree, but I think it's a beautiful gesture from Blizzard to offer the legend cardback to everyone for free.
Now everyone can display this pathetic excuse of anything vaguely similar to some kind of achievement.
Take a walk on the wild side...
There are certain oppressive decks that feel better to face than others...
At this point, if what you said is true, I'll be happy to see how Pirate Warrior can get nerf into the ground so people can't play it on ladder anymore
Pirate warrior is not even a top deck, it has strong counters. Druid was on a rampage until the razormane battleguard nerf and handlock still destroys it. I’ll chime in and complain about one thing I don’t like though, and that’s the slot machine variability of the juggernaut. Sometimes it’s whetstone hatchet or ringleaders wand and any of the low stat battlecry pirates… womp womp. Then they hit Mr. Smite or gorehowl for free and win on the spot. Just gorehowl for free, means Mr. Smite and Bloodsail Raider from hand is 22 damage to face from hand for 8 mana and that feels bad.
It is pretty bad. I play quest Shaman. I can do about 50% vs. pirate warrior because I have good removal vs. the smaller minions. The one I can't stand and refuse to play is the quest warlock. They effectively remove all of my minions while gaining health. If I do get them in trouble they pull out the big minions which I don't have enough removal for.
I'm a little concerned about the upcoming release. There are no support cards for my type of deck. Maybe I can switch out and play the hero card if it has enough value (I think it does). I am worried that some of these new decks will be very powerful. I think the new warlock variant will be nasty.
On a positive note, mage has been neutered. That deck was horrible to play against.
Welcome to late expansion ladder, thisjis nothing new for the entirety of Hearthstones life.
Players will always figure out the most efficient decks and the base will gravitate towards them. This got a lot worse in recent years as T5 moved away from the rock paper scissor model. At least in previous years hard counters would keep the meta rotating a little.
I personally hate the Warlock Quest more than Quest Warrior as well, even though Defias Cannonneer is a ridiculous card as of right now and needs a nerf (which i think would end up taking care of the problem). With Quest Warlocks i don’t even care if their overall winrate is 33% or something, i just want their whole decklist wiped from the earth. There’s so many giants that cost no mana, free 6/6 taunts, free 5/4 rush minions that get resurrected by Raise Dead. And on top of it all they go through their whole deck and then burn you with their own fatigue. No wonder people only want to play dumb aggro decks with that sort of garbage around
agreed with the post mentioning how they removed every weakness from the pirate decks. Especially in wild.
And we can feel it's on purpose because no dev team can be stupid enough and blind for such a long period that they still see this as tolerable.
So it's probably the money talking as someone else on this post mentioned. Fuckers
For me the main issue with quest warrior isn't actually the quest (although that does have some swingy RNG to it as well). The main issue is that the "deck limitations" of completing the quest are actually all just overstated/undercosted minions who provide great tempo and/or card draw while progressing the quest, and there's nothing that really gets in the way of it (and no real thought required in the design of the deck). All of the minions (with the exception of Bloodsail Raider and maybe Cargo Guard) can objectively be considered OP (or at least very good) when compared to their mana cost, and the deck synergy is so high it's almost as if it were by design..../s
Bloodsail Deckhand - premium stats and and directed mana discount battlecry which carries over from the current turn
Harbor Scamp - mediocre stats + a tutor of a specific type of card. Bascially a 2-for-1 in quest completion.
Defias Cannoneer - very overpowered effect for the mana cost, particularly given it procs every turn and the weapons are often cheap/free. A very high tempo card when played at the right time (and combo'd with the 2nd stage quest reward), and at worse 4 extra face damage on an empty board
Stormwind Freebooter - premium stats with tempo
Sword Eater - mediocre stats but a "free" weapon valued at 3 mana (so arguably a 1 mana 2/5 Taunt)
Stonemaul Anchorman - decent stats, draw and tempo all rolled into one. I have no idea why they buffed this guy
Fogsail Freebooter - would be a fair card except for the fact the player is nearly garaunteed to have a weapon (which is often free)
Southsea Captain - buffs all minions in the deck (basically) for 3 mana.
Mr. Smite - a stupid card with a stupid effect. Would still be good if he either had charge (but didn't grant it) or wasn't a pirate himself.
Wrap all of these up in a non-quest deck and I still think you would have a very good tempo deck which still has a finisher in Mr. Smite. Add in the quest and you get some extra draw, some extra tempo and some infinite value all in exchange for losing turn 1 (and one card).
The deck isn't unbeatable all of the time, but it definitely doens't feel like a fair fight, and even seemingly lost games can turn on a juggernaut RNG swing. Maybe taunt druid recks it (although I struggle to see how given how pirate warrior can easily be tweaked to be more anti-aggro), but just because another OP deck happens to beat this one doesn't make either of them right.
Sadly based on the new cards, the solution too all the previous power creep is (in the word of Jeremy Clarskon) - MORE POWER!
The meta is really funny, isn't it? - right now it looks like I have a positive win rate against pirate warrior in standard using a non-quest, spell power mage deck that keeps clearing the minions away with cheap, efficient removal. It also does really well against aggro druid... but that's another thread.
But then of course I run into stuff like questline fatigue warlock, and there's nothing to do - they have removal for days and the end-game win is inevitable.
I mean, it'd be nice if matches weren't so polarized. It sucks to queue into a class and kinda know how the game is going to shake out... but then you lather on the luck of the draw and any other RNG and there's always a chance it can swing one way or the other.
So, I dunno, I guess what I'm trying to say is... quest pirate warrior is strong, but it's not unbeatable. And that's how the cookie crumbles.
Or something.
It just completes itself so damn fast by playing minions which are way ahead of the power curve Turn 4 sword eater for example deals with every board out there in the current meta. I think that's part of the frustration, the minions all have powerful and damaging battlecries and statted way ahead of the curve,
At the very least the quest needs the shaman/warlock nerf treatment - slow it down. A hyper aggressive deck which deals way too much damage being rewarded an endgame control card that outvalues most things feels cheesy given that it always gets completed by turn 6/7 just by spamming overstatted minions out. Make the second and third stages play three pirates at the very least. Do the same for hunter quest too, odd quest hunter is absolutely dumping on wild right now also.
Mr Smite is the biggest problem that I see with it. If the juggernaut spawns him and the warrior has 1-2 pirates in hand (which they usually do) its instant 10+ dmg not even counting the weapon they randomly get.
I don't get WHY they made such a high damage charge minion after going totally away from them in favor of rush... I just don't get it. Of make him not have charge and just grant it at least that would tone it down. It's seeing play in other decks and offering ridiculous burst (buff pally, rogue and their shadowstep shenanigans) but at least those aren't as oppressive as pirate warrior.
I'd like them to nerf stats at the very least... otherwise reduce its cost 1 and make it Rush give your other pirates rush. Then it could be used to clear boards but not as 10+ burst out of nowhere.
I got killed by a random generated Mr Smite topped with random Gorehowl into a played Mr Smite and the 3/3 bomb your opponent. 26 damage ( 2 overkill). Yeah I know that's rare and RNG.. but still pretty disgusting.
#OutOfSalt