Personally, I'm so very disappointed that shadow priest hasn't worked out.
They hyped it up for like a year, and then *crickets chirping*. Maybe it's not as much the deck being bad as the other current decks being strong, but still, what an anti-climax after so much anticipation.
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
Personally, I'm so very disappointed that shadow priest hasn't worked out.
They hyped it up for like a year, and then *crickets chirping*. Maybe it's not as much the deck being bad as the other current decks being strong, but still, what an anti-climax after so much anticipation.
I think on one prediction thread I said that would be the case...
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I hear you. I always enjoy the deck building for new expansion launch. For a while I was trying all kinds of different decks, some with quests some without, but mostly mid-rangey as is my preferred style...trying to slot in some of the new minions from the new set that looked good on paper. When I realised decks like quest mage, warlocks, and OTK rogue were punishing me I started subbing out what looked like the new cool minions for older anti-spell tech like Ogremancer and Cult Neophyte. It wasn't enough. Then it hit me like a revelation. A stupid revelation. The answer wasn't to play anti-spell minions that the mage just blasted away like it was nothing. No, it was to play no minions at all. So I made a quest druid deck...beat 4 mages in a row and logged off SMH.
No minions being the answer...in hearthstone.... oh dear lol.
(To be fair I did also have success playing my janky divine shield paladin, and so it's now panned out - that deck archetype is strong as hell, and does in fact play minions on to the board...wow)
I also tried quest mage with about 10 minions that all generated spells except for Ras Frostwhisper because I thought he would be awesome post quest completion. I too was naive.
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I am playing Ras Aegwynn and a couple other minions in my quest deck and I'm winning games with it. Same for my quest warlock it's a very different list from the known fatigue one and it's viable. I don't need all my decks to be the best decks in the game to feel good about myself, as long as they are working and can get a win against several meta decks i'm fine.
I have also built decks that immediately turned out refined and powerful and meta because there's not a millions way to build them like quest hunter or rogue they're pretty much auto-built if you know anything about Hearthstone. And decks that are utter trash and couldn't possibly win a game even if they look good on paper and I wish so hard they were playable but I enjoyed experimenting with them anyway.
Don't assume your opponent is a netdecker just because he plays a common deck, do you really think only the streamers and pro players can come up with refined lists ? Or that said pro players don't get inspire by anonymous people's decks ? Creativity isn't proportionnal to play rate, just do what you gotta do, what's stopping you from including Ras and sorcerous substitute and trying your best to build a deck around them ?
Every card has a deck where they can thrive more than in any other deck. For Sorcerous Substitute that deck is most likely quest mage, your idea was good. It doesn't matter if it's not the best version of quest mage, what matters is that it's the best deck for sorcerous substitute and if you want to play that card, you have to build that deck.
I just don't understand what's stopping people from experimenting, it's almost like you need validation and you're disappointed because nobody else plays your version of the deck because it unfortunately turned out to not be optimal. Do you care about creativity or win rate after all ? Or is it other people's creativity that you seek for truly "unique" games ?
If this message sounds toxic or offensive at all please note I do not mean it. You're the opposite of an idiot for trying to be creative. But you're a proper idiot for giving up already cause you have a good sense of deck building, maybe you just don't have the right goals that allow your creativity to fully thrive. Don't be disappointed when your deck isn't tier 2. And be happy when it is. Don't be frustrated when a better version of your deck is meta. And be happy the day your version becomes meta even if you're never gonna get recognition for it.
Raid the Docks has been a bit disappointing to me as I was hoping to use it in a more defensive oriented Control Warrior. Control Warrior gets annihilated in this current fast-paced meta so it's seeing more success in an aggro based pirate warrior (but it's not true pirate aggro like the old days).
I remember when a streamer got very excited about the possibilities of the caverns below when it was revealed, he was a very creative guy who loved to play fun cards for fun but still tried to win games.
And he had a huge rant about it quickly after launch and quit hearthstone not long after, because of how people were using the quest with charge and freeze and other annoying minions to stop the opponent from reacting.
But, this is someone's creativity that made this deck, and that made it good. So i'm feeling very out of touch with many players that seek creativity in Hearthstone, because they complain about the very thing that they seek whenever it is remotely successful. A good deck is more creative than a bad deck. For the creator anyway, of course netdeckers that come after aren't creative but that's not their goal so it's totally ok.
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I am playing Ras Aegwynn and a couple other minions in my quest deck and I'm winning games with it. Same for my quest warlock it's a very different list from the known fatigue one and it's viable. I don't need all my decks to be the best decks in the game to feel good about myself, as long as they are working and can get a win against several meta decks i'm fine.
I have also built decks that immediately turned out refined and powerful and meta because there's not a millions way to build them like quest hunter or rogue they're pretty much auto-built if you know anything about Hearthstone. And decks that are utter trash and couldn't possibly win a game even if they look good on paper and I wish so hard they were playable but I enjoyed experimenting with them anyway.
Don't assume your opponent is a netdecker just because he plays a common deck, do you really think only the streamers and pro players can come up with refined lists ? Or that said pro players don't get inspire by anonymous people's decks ? Creativity isn't proportionnal to play rate, just do what you gotta do, what's stopping you from including Ras and sorcerous substitute and trying your best to build a deck around them ?
Every card has a deck where they can thrive more than in any other deck. For Sorcerous Substitute that deck is most likely quest mage, your idea was good. It doesn't matter if it's not the best version of quest mage, what matters is that it's the best deck for sorcerous substitute and if you want to play that card, you have to build that deck.
I just don't understand what's stopping people from experimenting, it's almost like you need validation and you're disappointed because nobody else plays your version of the deck because it unfortunately turned out to not be optimal. Do you care about creativity or win rate after all ? Or is it other people's creativity that you seek for truly "unique" games ?
If this message sounds toxic or offensive at all please note I do not mean it. You're the opposite of an idiot for trying to be creative. But you're a proper idiot for giving up already cause you have a good sense of deck building, maybe you just don't have the right goals that allow your creativity to fully thrive. Don't be disappointed when your deck isn't tier 2. And be happy when it is. Don't be frustrated when a better version of your deck is meta. And be happy the day your version becomes meta even if you're never gonna get recognition for it.
Wow, well... I guess that was the pep talk I needed. Your post started out like I was going to get my head bitten off, and then it became rather sincere. Thank you.
I guess the main thing for me is not that everyone is net decking, nor is about validation from other people playing my deck. I just want to have fun and I'd rather do it playing a deck that I made, instead of copying one. If I have an idea that I think is good, but the deck never wins on ladder, I'll feel like it's a failure. And it's hard to stay positive playing HS when you only lose games.
So there is really a balancing act of "good and fun". It's definitely not easy, but I'll keep trying. :)
I crafted Grand Magus Antonidas on day 1 because I think it's a cool card... and I don't regret it one bit. Anyone is free to laugh at me as they like for that, but I'll keep my head up.
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I hear you. I always enjoy the deck building for new expansion launch. For a while I was trying all kinds of different decks, some with quests some without, but mostly mid-rangey as is my preferred style...trying to slot in some of the new minions from the new set that looked good on paper. When I realised decks like quest mage, warlocks, and OTK rogue were punishing me I started subbing out what looked like the new cool minions for older anti-spell tech like Ogremancer and Cult Neophyte. It wasn't enough. Then it hit me like a revelation. A stupid revelation. The answer wasn't to play anti-spell minions that the mage just blasted away like it was nothing. No, it was to play no minions at all. So I made a quest druid deck...beat 4 mages in a row and logged off SMH.
No minions being the answer...in hearthstone.... oh dear lol.
(To be fair I did also have success playing my janky divine shield paladin, and so it's now panned out - that deck archetype is strong as hell, and does in fact play minions on to the board...wow)
So what's wrong exactly ? You reacted to the meta with a counter deck after getting stomped in your creative process, because you were seeking win rate over creativity after you lost too many games (which is fine we all do that but don't pretend in the mirror that you didn't) it worked, and... you logged off in frustration. I mean that's literally how the metas evolve since day one, you're making the future !
But you can't experiment and play the best meta or counter meta deck at the same time, it just doesn't make sense you can't want that lol
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I hear you. I always enjoy the deck building for new expansion launch. For a while I was trying all kinds of different decks, some with quests some without, but mostly mid-rangey as is my preferred style...trying to slot in some of the new minions from the new set that looked good on paper. When I realised decks like quest mage, warlocks, and OTK rogue were punishing me I started subbing out what looked like the new cool minions for older anti-spell tech like Ogremancer and Cult Neophyte. It wasn't enough. Then it hit me like a revelation. A stupid revelation. The answer wasn't to play anti-spell minions that the mage just blasted away like it was nothing. No, it was to play no minions at all. So I made a quest druid deck...beat 4 mages in a row and logged off SMH.
No minions being the answer...in hearthstone.... oh dear lol.
(To be fair I did also have success playing my janky divine shield paladin, and so it's now panned out - that deck archetype is strong as hell, and does in fact play minions on to the board...wow)
So what's wrong exactly ? You reacted to the meta with a counter deck after getting stomped in your creative process, because you were seeking win rate over creativity after you lost too many games (which is fine we all do that but don't pretend in the mirror that you didn't) it worked, and... you logged off in frustration. I mean that's literally how the metas evolve since day one, you're making the future !
But you can't experiment and play the best meta or counter meta deck at the same time, it just doesn't make sense you can't want that lol
Not logging off in frustration no. Logging off in disbelief is more accurate. I don't care so much about winrates, if I did, I wouldn't be making my own decks, I just like to feel the progression of moving them forwards myself...y'know, play a few games, make some adjustments, play a few more games, make some adjustments, etc.
I couldn't actually believe at the time that the superior counter wasn't to play minions that countered lots of cheap spells, but to just play no minions and essentially handlock my opponents (Just seems kind anti-hearthstone to me...wrong...), and force them to do stupid shit, like forcing a font of power and them hoping for a cheap mininon so they can play it and nuke it themselves (wtf?)
The biggest issue most all decks are facing is the power level of this expansion blows the others out completely. It’s not just the quests, which are hilariously easy to complete. I think team 5 was thinking quest mage and warlock would get completed turn 8 or 9, not turn 5. Look at the other cards in the expansion too though, runed mithral staff gives a Thaurissian effect twice, for 3 mana… a 2 mana at most recurring fireball… 2 mana, deal 8 damage when you draw all cards… hell, even a 5 mana 5/5 give adjacent minions windfury as an ability, not a battlecry. I think there will be a correlation between deck strength and percentage of the deck that is UIS cards.
edit: on topic I’m really disappointed that this is the shadow priest we got, it certainly isn’t the one we wanted.
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I am playing Ras Aegwynn and a couple other minions in my quest deck and I'm winning games with it. Same for my quest warlock it's a very different list from the known fatigue one and it's viable. I don't need all my decks to be the best decks in the game to feel good about myself, as long as they are working and can get a win against several meta decks i'm fine.
I have also built decks that immediately turned out refined and powerful and meta because there's not a millions way to build them like quest hunter or rogue they're pretty much auto-built if you know anything about Hearthstone. And decks that are utter trash and couldn't possibly win a game even if they look good on paper and I wish so hard they were playable but I enjoyed experimenting with them anyway.
Don't assume your opponent is a netdecker just because he plays a common deck, do you really think only the streamers and pro players can come up with refined lists ? Or that said pro players don't get inspire by anonymous people's decks ? Creativity isn't proportionnal to play rate, just do what you gotta do, what's stopping you from including Ras and sorcerous substitute and trying your best to build a deck around them ?
Every card has a deck where they can thrive more than in any other deck. For Sorcerous Substitute that deck is most likely quest mage, your idea was good. It doesn't matter if it's not the best version of quest mage, what matters is that it's the best deck for sorcerous substitute and if you want to play that card, you have to build that deck.
I just don't understand what's stopping people from experimenting, it's almost like you need validation and you're disappointed because nobody else plays your version of the deck because it unfortunately turned out to not be optimal. Do you care about creativity or win rate after all ? Or is it other people's creativity that you seek for truly "unique" games ?
If this message sounds toxic or offensive at all please note I do not mean it. You're the opposite of an idiot for trying to be creative. But you're a proper idiot for giving up already cause you have a good sense of deck building, maybe you just don't have the right goals that allow your creativity to fully thrive. Don't be disappointed when your deck isn't tier 2. And be happy when it is. Don't be frustrated when a better version of your deck is meta. And be happy the day your version becomes meta even if you're never gonna get recognition for it.
Wow, well... I guess that was the pep talk I needed. Your post started out like I was going to get my head bitten off, and then it became rather sincere. Thank you.
I guess the main thing for me is not that everyone is net decking, nor is about validation from other people playing my deck. I just want to have fun and I'd rather do it playing a deck that I made, instead of copying one. If I have an idea that I think is good, but the deck never wins on ladder, I'll feel like it's a failure. And it's hard to stay positive playing HS when you only lose games.
So there is really a balancing act of "good and fun". It's definitely not easy, but I'll keep trying. :)
I crafted Grand Magus Antonidas on day 1 because I think it's a cool card... and I don't regret it one bit. Anyone is free to laugh at me as they like for that, but I'll keep my head up.
Exactly, you need to find the balance between all for power and all for fun, and it's hard because sometimes they are the same thing and sometimes they are opposite, depending on your taste and playstyle. And because the extremes are overplayed meta decks and unplayable meme decks, we don't want that as experimenters !
It's true it's hard to stay positive and I'm not better than anyone at that, some days i'll just hate the game and hate myself for playing it because I just COULDN'T win ONE game with ANY deck, feels like you wasted an entire day, negativity bias is incredibly strong and impacting in our lives, and I start to feel like i'm the problem and I don't know how to build decks anymore and get veeeery frustrated but sometimes it's just the matchmaking system trolling you to death you know, like when you include a tech card for a deck you constantly face and you never see it again until the very moment you remove that tech card, but the next day everything is better and your opponents are less lucky and you get the job done.
I craft most of my cards on day one, most of which end up off meta and i'm fine with that, no regret. Even you Anomalus, you turned out ok eventually with Frost lich Jaina. So don't worry antonidas will be fine :P
It's important to not care too much about the other player in Hearthstone. And not care about your overall winrate vs the meta, as much as you care about the winrate of the specific cards you wanna play. At least that's how I do it and that's how i'm still happy to do it 8 years after launch despite the occasional unbalanced metas. I know it can be sad sometimes, "solitaire game" and whatnot, but the population of people who experiment is never going to exceed 5%, for bad and good reasons, it's a lonely journey. Anyway I'm happy to help ;)
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I hear you. I always enjoy the deck building for new expansion launch. For a while I was trying all kinds of different decks, some with quests some without, but mostly mid-rangey as is my preferred style...trying to slot in some of the new minions from the new set that looked good on paper. When I realised decks like quest mage, warlocks, and OTK rogue were punishing me I started subbing out what looked like the new cool minions for older anti-spell tech like Ogremancer and Cult Neophyte. It wasn't enough. Then it hit me like a revelation. A stupid revelation. The answer wasn't to play anti-spell minions that the mage just blasted away like it was nothing. No, it was to play no minions at all. So I made a quest druid deck...beat 4 mages in a row and logged off SMH.
No minions being the answer...in hearthstone.... oh dear lol.
(To be fair I did also have success playing my janky divine shield paladin, and so it's now panned out - that deck archetype is strong as hell, and does in fact play minions on to the board...wow)
So what's wrong exactly ? You reacted to the meta with a counter deck after getting stomped in your creative process, because you were seeking win rate over creativity after you lost too many games (which is fine we all do that but don't pretend in the mirror that you didn't) it worked, and... you logged off in frustration. I mean that's literally how the metas evolve since day one, you're making the future !
But you can't experiment and play the best meta or counter meta deck at the same time, it just doesn't make sense you can't want that lol
Not logging off in frustration no. Logging off in disbelief is more accurate. I don't care so much about winrates, if I did, I wouldn't be making my own decks, I just like to feel the progression of moving them forwards myself...y'know, play a few games, make some adjustments, play a few more games, make some adjustments, etc.
I couldn't actually believe at the time that the superior counter wasn't to play minions that countered lots of cheap spells, but to just play no minions and essentially handlock my opponents (Just seems kind anti-hearthstone to me...wrong...), and force them to do stupid shit, like forcing a font of power and them hoping for a cheap mininon so they can play it and nuke it themselves (wtf?)
Well yeah I totally get what you mean, "make some adjustments, play a few more games" is literally my entire Hearthstone career, but I guess my question is why are you not feeling that sense of progression with your homebrew decks refining process, specifically in this expansion ?
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I hear you. I always enjoy the deck building for new expansion launch. For a while I was trying all kinds of different decks, some with quests some without, but mostly mid-rangey as is my preferred style...trying to slot in some of the new minions from the new set that looked good on paper. When I realised decks like quest mage, warlocks, and OTK rogue were punishing me I started subbing out what looked like the new cool minions for older anti-spell tech like Ogremancer and Cult Neophyte. It wasn't enough. Then it hit me like a revelation. A stupid revelation. The answer wasn't to play anti-spell minions that the mage just blasted away like it was nothing. No, it was to play no minions at all. So I made a quest druid deck...beat 4 mages in a row and logged off SMH.
No minions being the answer...in hearthstone.... oh dear lol.
(To be fair I did also have success playing my janky divine shield paladin, and so it's now panned out - that deck archetype is strong as hell, and does in fact play minions on to the board...wow)
So what's wrong exactly ? You reacted to the meta with a counter deck after getting stomped in your creative process, because you were seeking win rate over creativity after you lost too many games (which is fine we all do that but don't pretend in the mirror that you didn't) it worked, and... you logged off in frustration. I mean that's literally how the metas evolve since day one, you're making the future !
But you can't experiment and play the best meta or counter meta deck at the same time, it just doesn't make sense you can't want that lol
Not logging off in frustration no. Logging off in disbelief is more accurate. I don't care so much about winrates, if I did, I wouldn't be making my own decks, I just like to feel the progression of moving them forwards myself...y'know, play a few games, make some adjustments, play a few more games, make some adjustments, etc.
I couldn't actually believe at the time that the superior counter wasn't to play minions that countered lots of cheap spells, but to just play no minions and essentially handlock my opponents (Just seems kind anti-hearthstone to me...wrong...), and force them to do stupid shit, like forcing a font of power and them hoping for a cheap mininon so they can play it and nuke it themselves (wtf?)
Well yeah I totally get what you mean, "make some adjustments, play a few more games" is literally my entire Hearthstone career, but I guess my question is why are you not feeling that sense of progression with your homebrew decks refining process, specifically in this expansion ?
Well, I guess it comes down to the idea that I've always enjoyed minion play in hearthstone. I just never imagined there would be a future version of hearthstone that made you feel like playing almost any minion whatsoever was too slow, and would not only be immediately removed but also advance your opponents gameplan - i.e. countered and punished... and the revelation that it was better better to play a druid spell that gives both armor and can hit the face immediately without commiting anything to the board was a shock. Maybe I just need some time to adjust.
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I hear you. I always enjoy the deck building for new expansion launch. For a while I was trying all kinds of different decks, some with quests some without, but mostly mid-rangey as is my preferred style...trying to slot in some of the new minions from the new set that looked good on paper. When I realised decks like quest mage, warlocks, and OTK rogue were punishing me I started subbing out what looked like the new cool minions for older anti-spell tech like Ogremancer and Cult Neophyte. It wasn't enough. Then it hit me like a revelation. A stupid revelation. The answer wasn't to play anti-spell minions that the mage just blasted away like it was nothing. No, it was to play no minions at all. So I made a quest druid deck...beat 4 mages in a row and logged off SMH.
No minions being the answer...in hearthstone.... oh dear lol.
(To be fair I did also have success playing my janky divine shield paladin, and so it's now panned out - that deck archetype is strong as hell, and does in fact play minions on to the board...wow)
So what's wrong exactly ? You reacted to the meta with a counter deck after getting stomped in your creative process, because you were seeking win rate over creativity after you lost too many games (which is fine we all do that but don't pretend in the mirror that you didn't) it worked, and... you logged off in frustration. I mean that's literally how the metas evolve since day one, you're making the future !
But you can't experiment and play the best meta or counter meta deck at the same time, it just doesn't make sense you can't want that lol
Not logging off in frustration no. Logging off in disbelief is more accurate. I don't care so much about winrates, if I did, I wouldn't be making my own decks, I just like to feel the progression of moving them forwards myself...y'know, play a few games, make some adjustments, play a few more games, make some adjustments, etc.
I couldn't actually believe at the time that the superior counter wasn't to play minions that countered lots of cheap spells, but to just play no minions and essentially handlock my opponents (Just seems kind anti-hearthstone to me...wrong...), and force them to do stupid shit, like forcing a font of power and them hoping for a cheap mininon so they can play it and nuke it themselves (wtf?)
Well yeah I totally get what you mean, "make some adjustments, play a few more games" is literally my entire Hearthstone career, but I guess my question is why are you not feeling that sense of progression with your homebrew decks refining process, specifically in this expansion ?
Well, I guess it comes down to the idea that I've always enjoyed minion play in hearthstone. I just never imagined there would be a future version of hearthstone that made you feel like playing almost any minion whatsoever was too slow, and would not only be immediately removed but also advance your opponents gameplan - i.e. countered and punished... and the revelation that it was better better to play a druid spell that gives both armor and can hit the face immediately without commiting anything to the board was a shock. Maybe I just need some time to adjust.
But what you're describing just works against quest mage, not all of the meta, right ? That's why I'm confused because in my book you just found a clever way to counter mage and yes that's opposite to your usual playstyle but that's what it takes sometimes to climb ladder, and it all comes down to what's more important to you, your rank or your fun, regardless of the meta. Though consider that you can climb ladder with non-optimal decks. You're just gonna suffer a lot more from negativity bias, but if you can learn to get through it, you will enjoy your ladder ride a lot.
It's so much more fun for me, and I'm sure it is for you too, to reach diamond 5 in 3 weeks with my own decks, or not reach it at all, than to reach legend rank in 2 week with meta T1 decks. But because of negativity bias we tend to forget that very quickly and when we lose multiple games in a row or when we can truly feel the matchmaking system is taking a personal revenge and screwing us in every possible way, we become obsessed by optimization and let go of our fringe and fun builds. It's a hard balance to find, and I hope you find it back.
Have you considered experimenting with handbuff paladin or warrior ? I feel like they're you best option right now for heavy minion play. Maybe aggro elemental shaman ? Doomhammer is the win condition but minions still play a major role in the deck, and you can always cut the doomhammer package and try something else, it's only 6 cards. Or get a vacation to the wild format for a while ! tons of minions out there
Raid the Docks has been a bit disappointing to me as I was hoping to use it in a more defensive oriented Control Warrior. Control Warrior gets annihilated in this current fast-paced meta so it's seeing more success in an aggro based pirate warrior (but it's not true pirate aggro like the old days).
Pirate Warrior in Wild is pretty nuts if you get the right match up.
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Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
I've been facing a lot of mages..40% of my matchups at a guess have been Mage. And I have been playing divine handbuff paladin, I made my own version of it immediately on launch and could tell right away it was super strong - I did say that actually in my first post. Everything you say about mentality when climbing with your own deck is true, and it is very easy to loose perspective and 'tilt' - I will try to remeber your advice on the ladder... It worries me slightly that no-minion mage was already popular even post nerfs last expansion. I don't see it going anywhere, people seem to to love the way it plays, I think it will remain the most popular deck.
I haven't tried warrior yet really, but I'll get round to it. Elemental shaman is a bit too 'vanilla' for me at this point.
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Personally, I'm so very disappointed that shadow priest hasn't worked out.
They hyped it up for like a year, and then *crickets chirping*. Maybe it's not as much the deck being bad as the other current decks being strong, but still, what an anti-climax after so much anticipation.
the same for me and for quest priest.... is my fav and only class i play and is at the bottom.. i havent gotten out of gold 5 yet...
Dinomancy hunter, still trying to make this work every time there's new cards, still failing.
Every single deck I've created this expansion.
I must be a proper idiot for trying to do anything creative. They key to winning is just follow what the pro players are doing and shoot your opponent in the face with a gun. Everyone has their netdeck lists? Aaaaand go!
This little spring chicken actually got very excited for quest mage, I was thinking about all the fun ways to use permanent spell damage, like Ras Frostwhisper and Sorcerous Substitute.
God... was I naïve.
I think on one prediction thread I said that would be the case...
I hear you. I always enjoy the deck building for new expansion launch. For a while I was trying all kinds of different decks, some with quests some without, but mostly mid-rangey as is my preferred style...trying to slot in some of the new minions from the new set that looked good on paper. When I realised decks like quest mage, warlocks, and OTK rogue were punishing me I started subbing out what looked like the new cool minions for older anti-spell tech like Ogremancer and Cult Neophyte. It wasn't enough. Then it hit me like a revelation. A stupid revelation. The answer wasn't to play anti-spell minions that the mage just blasted away like it was nothing. No, it was to play no minions at all. So I made a quest druid deck...beat 4 mages in a row and logged off SMH.
No minions being the answer...in hearthstone.... oh dear lol.
(To be fair I did also have success playing my janky divine shield paladin, and so it's now panned out - that deck archetype is strong as hell, and does in fact play minions on to the board...wow)
I also tried quest mage with about 10 minions that all generated spells except for Ras Frostwhisper because I thought he would be awesome post quest completion.
I too was naive.
I am playing Ras Aegwynn and a couple other minions in my quest deck and I'm winning games with it. Same for my quest warlock it's a very different list from the known fatigue one and it's viable. I don't need all my decks to be the best decks in the game to feel good about myself, as long as they are working and can get a win against several meta decks i'm fine.
I have also built decks that immediately turned out refined and powerful and meta because there's not a millions way to build them like quest hunter or rogue they're pretty much auto-built if you know anything about Hearthstone. And decks that are utter trash and couldn't possibly win a game even if they look good on paper and I wish so hard they were playable but I enjoyed experimenting with them anyway.
Don't assume your opponent is a netdecker just because he plays a common deck, do you really think only the streamers and pro players can come up with refined lists ? Or that said pro players don't get inspire by anonymous people's decks ? Creativity isn't proportionnal to play rate, just do what you gotta do, what's stopping you from including Ras and sorcerous substitute and trying your best to build a deck around them ?
Every card has a deck where they can thrive more than in any other deck. For Sorcerous Substitute that deck is most likely quest mage, your idea was good. It doesn't matter if it's not the best version of quest mage, what matters is that it's the best deck for sorcerous substitute and if you want to play that card, you have to build that deck.
I just don't understand what's stopping people from experimenting, it's almost like you need validation and you're disappointed because nobody else plays your version of the deck because it unfortunately turned out to not be optimal. Do you care about creativity or win rate after all ? Or is it other people's creativity that you seek for truly "unique" games ?
If this message sounds toxic or offensive at all please note I do not mean it. You're the opposite of an idiot for trying to be creative. But you're a proper idiot for giving up already cause you have a good sense of deck building, maybe you just don't have the right goals that allow your creativity to fully thrive. Don't be disappointed when your deck isn't tier 2. And be happy when it is. Don't be frustrated when a better version of your deck is meta. And be happy the day your version becomes meta even if you're never gonna get recognition for it.
Raid the Docks has been a bit disappointing to me as I was hoping to use it in a more defensive oriented Control Warrior. Control Warrior gets annihilated in this current fast-paced meta so it's seeing more success in an aggro based pirate warrior (but it's not true pirate aggro like the old days).
I remember when a streamer got very excited about the possibilities of the caverns below when it was revealed, he was a very creative guy who loved to play fun cards for fun but still tried to win games.
And he had a huge rant about it quickly after launch and quit hearthstone not long after, because of how people were using the quest with charge and freeze and other annoying minions to stop the opponent from reacting.
But, this is someone's creativity that made this deck, and that made it good. So i'm feeling very out of touch with many players that seek creativity in Hearthstone, because they complain about the very thing that they seek whenever it is remotely successful. A good deck is more creative than a bad deck. For the creator anyway, of course netdeckers that come after aren't creative but that's not their goal so it's totally ok.
Wow, well... I guess that was the pep talk I needed. Your post started out like I was going to get my head bitten off, and then it became rather sincere. Thank you.
I guess the main thing for me is not that everyone is net decking, nor is about validation from other people playing my deck. I just want to have fun and I'd rather do it playing a deck that I made, instead of copying one. If I have an idea that I think is good, but the deck never wins on ladder, I'll feel like it's a failure. And it's hard to stay positive playing HS when you only lose games.
So there is really a balancing act of "good and fun". It's definitely not easy, but I'll keep trying. :)
I crafted Grand Magus Antonidas on day 1 because I think it's a cool card... and I don't regret it one bit. Anyone is free to laugh at me as they like for that, but I'll keep my head up.
So what's wrong exactly ? You reacted to the meta with a counter deck after getting stomped in your creative process, because you were seeking win rate over creativity after you lost too many games (which is fine we all do that but don't pretend in the mirror that you didn't) it worked, and... you logged off in frustration. I mean that's literally how the metas evolve since day one, you're making the future !
But you can't experiment and play the best meta or counter meta deck at the same time, it just doesn't make sense you can't want that lol
Not logging off in frustration no. Logging off in disbelief is more accurate. I don't care so much about winrates, if I did, I wouldn't be making my own decks, I just like to feel the progression of moving them forwards myself...y'know, play a few games, make some adjustments, play a few more games, make some adjustments, etc.
I couldn't actually believe at the time that the superior counter wasn't to play minions that countered lots of cheap spells, but to just play no minions and essentially handlock my opponents (Just seems kind anti-hearthstone to me...wrong...), and force them to do stupid shit, like forcing a font of power and them hoping for a cheap mininon so they can play it and nuke it themselves (wtf?)
The biggest issue most all decks are facing is the power level of this expansion blows the others out completely. It’s not just the quests, which are hilariously easy to complete. I think team 5 was thinking quest mage and warlock would get completed turn 8 or 9, not turn 5. Look at the other cards in the expansion too though, runed mithral staff gives a Thaurissian effect twice, for 3 mana… a 2 mana at most recurring fireball… 2 mana, deal 8 damage when you draw all cards… hell, even a 5 mana 5/5 give adjacent minions windfury as an ability, not a battlecry. I think there will be a correlation between deck strength and percentage of the deck that is UIS cards.
edit: on topic I’m really disappointed that this is the shadow priest we got, it certainly isn’t the one we wanted.
Exactly, you need to find the balance between all for power and all for fun, and it's hard because sometimes they are the same thing and sometimes they are opposite, depending on your taste and playstyle. And because the extremes are overplayed meta decks and unplayable meme decks, we don't want that as experimenters !
It's true it's hard to stay positive and I'm not better than anyone at that, some days i'll just hate the game and hate myself for playing it because I just COULDN'T win ONE game with ANY deck, feels like you wasted an entire day, negativity bias is incredibly strong and impacting in our lives, and I start to feel like i'm the problem and I don't know how to build decks anymore and get veeeery frustrated but sometimes it's just the matchmaking system trolling you to death you know, like when you include a tech card for a deck you constantly face and you never see it again until the very moment you remove that tech card, but the next day everything is better and your opponents are less lucky and you get the job done.
I craft most of my cards on day one, most of which end up off meta and i'm fine with that, no regret. Even you Anomalus, you turned out ok eventually with Frost lich Jaina. So don't worry antonidas will be fine :P
It's important to not care too much about the other player in Hearthstone. And not care about your overall winrate vs the meta, as much as you care about the winrate of the specific cards you wanna play. At least that's how I do it and that's how i'm still happy to do it 8 years after launch despite the occasional unbalanced metas. I know it can be sad sometimes, "solitaire game" and whatnot, but the population of people who experiment is never going to exceed 5%, for bad and good reasons, it's a lonely journey. Anyway I'm happy to help ;)
Well yeah I totally get what you mean, "make some adjustments, play a few more games" is literally my entire Hearthstone career, but I guess my question is why are you not feeling that sense of progression with your homebrew decks refining process, specifically in this expansion ?
Well, I guess it comes down to the idea that I've always enjoyed minion play in hearthstone. I just never imagined there would be a future version of hearthstone that made you feel like playing almost any minion whatsoever was too slow, and would not only be immediately removed but also advance your opponents gameplan - i.e. countered and punished... and the revelation that it was better better to play a druid spell that gives both armor and can hit the face immediately without commiting anything to the board was a shock. Maybe I just need some time to adjust.
But what you're describing just works against quest mage, not all of the meta, right ? That's why I'm confused because in my book you just found a clever way to counter mage and yes that's opposite to your usual playstyle but that's what it takes sometimes to climb ladder, and it all comes down to what's more important to you, your rank or your fun, regardless of the meta. Though consider that you can climb ladder with non-optimal decks. You're just gonna suffer a lot more from negativity bias, but if you can learn to get through it, you will enjoy your ladder ride a lot.
It's so much more fun for me, and I'm sure it is for you too, to reach diamond 5 in 3 weeks with my own decks, or not reach it at all, than to reach legend rank in 2 week with meta T1 decks. But because of negativity bias we tend to forget that very quickly and when we lose multiple games in a row or when we can truly feel the matchmaking system is taking a personal revenge and screwing us in every possible way, we become obsessed by optimization and let go of our fringe and fun builds. It's a hard balance to find, and I hope you find it back.
Have you considered experimenting with handbuff paladin or warrior ? I feel like they're you best option right now for heavy minion play. Maybe aggro elemental shaman ? Doomhammer is the win condition but minions still play a major role in the deck, and you can always cut the doomhammer package and try something else, it's only 6 cards. Or get a vacation to the wild format for a while ! tons of minions out there
Pirate Warrior in Wild is pretty nuts if you get the right match up.
Grammar is the difference between knowing your crap, and knowing you’re crap.
A .gif is worth a thousand words.
I've been facing a lot of mages..40% of my matchups at a guess have been Mage. And I have been playing divine handbuff paladin, I made my own version of it immediately on launch and could tell right away it was super strong - I did say that actually in my first post. Everything you say about mentality when climbing with your own deck is true, and it is very easy to loose perspective and 'tilt' - I will try to remeber your advice on the ladder... It worries me slightly that no-minion mage was already popular even post nerfs last expansion. I don't see it going anywhere, people seem to to love the way it plays, I think it will remain the most popular deck.
I haven't tried warrior yet really, but I'll get round to it. Elemental shaman is a bit too 'vanilla' for me at this point.