If you want to keep exchanging insults, trust me, I'm better at it than you.
That is exactly like saying "My d..k is bigger than yours!" to a random stranger on the street. There is no way you could know such a thing beforehand.
This is a forum for people all around the world, you have no idea what kind of monsters lurk out there, dude. Be careful! ;)
People's issue is less that a deck cannot be beaten, its a deck that can't be beaten with what they WANT to play with. So many people just want the game to cater them as an individual.
Weird because they seem to be the same people who cry about early streaming because it 'ruins the experimenting phase', which is exactly what this is. Some busted things pop out and people then start to counter them. Things are going to seem way, way over powered when you have no idea what to expect or play around. Once those beasts start coming down regularly people will start to tech against it to counter it. If a couple of weeks go by and there's no counter in sight then that's when nerfs should be considered.
I seem to recall bomb warrior starting off by smashing so many things and then fairly quickly fading away. I coukd be wrong but I can't really be bothered to really go through the examples because these people don't want to be reasoned with, they just want to have their cry and be validated by Internet strangers.
Agreed. The deck IS beatable, but not by every deck. That's always been the case in HS.
Right now, SotF druid is the first deck that works well. It is rock and rock hits you in the face and hurts. Mozaki OTK mage is a really good scissor, but it still loses to rock. Priest, warrior and maybe handlock will make a good paper and the meta will be mostly balanced. Control decks take longer to figure out than aggro decks or decks where the “trick” is to use kael to play a 10-cost card for free. Hardly anyone is running silence, minion stealing or albatrosses. Give it a week and druid will drop because giant buffed minions will be a liability for Cabal Acolyte and Wave of Apathy.
People's issue is less that a deck cannot be beaten, its a deck that can't be beaten with what they WANT to play with. So many people just want the game to cater them as an individual.
Weird because they seem to be the same people who cry about early streaming because it 'ruins the experimenting phase', which is exactly what this is. Some busted things pop out and people then start to counter them. Things are going to seem way, way over powered when you have no idea what to expect or play around. Once those beasts start coming down regularly people will start to tech against it to counter it. If a couple of weeks go by and there's no counter in sight then that's when nerfs should be considered.
I seem to recall bomb warrior starting off by smashing so many things and then fairly quickly fading away. I coukd be wrong but I can't really be bothered to really go through the examples because these people don't want to be reasoned with, they just want to have their cry and be validated by Internet strangers.
Agreed. The deck IS beatable, but not by every deck. That's always been the case in HS.
P4dge has a point, but I don't fully agree with him. Generalization is never a good thing (although I admit being guilty of doing such a thing from time to time).
The definition people are using is wrong. There is a reason things have definitions. Linguini is like spaghetti, but it’s incorrect to call linguini spaghetti. Mana cheating has been a concept in TCGs before hearthstone ever existed. It is playing a card for little or no cost before you could pay for it. It’s playing SotF for free six turns early. It’s using elvish piper to play an eldrazi turn 5.
As for GA, 14 mana (best case scenario) for 7 is extremely valuable and a bit overpowered. It’s not mana cheating. Playing it for free on turn 4-5 is. Also, you know what really screws up that strategy? Making them draw one cost beasts. Now if only there was a card that would put two 1/1 beasts in the opponent’s deck...
By that definition any card played using innervate/lightning bloom was mana cheated, doesnt have to cost 0.. Commencement pays 7 mana to play a more expensive minion + taunt/DS + 01 card draw, it only discounts around 6 mana but its certainly mana cheating. Its not something cut and dry, theres room for interpretation here I think.
I dont think anyone would be complaining about GA if Albatross was a good tech option bro, just saying LOL
The definition people are using is wrong. There is a reason things have definitions. Linguini is like spaghetti, but it’s incorrect to call linguini spaghetti. Mana cheating has been a concept in TCGs before hearthstone ever existed. It is playing a card for little or no cost before you could pay for it. It’s playing SotF for free six turns early. It’s using elvish piper to play an eldrazi turn 5.
As for GA, 14 mana (best case scenario) for 7 is extremely valuable and a bit overpowered. It’s not mana cheating. Playing it for free on turn 4-5 is. Also, you know what really screws up that strategy? Making them draw one cost beasts. Now if only there was a card that would put two 1/1 beasts in the opponent’s deck...
By that definition any card played using innervate/lightning bloom was mana cheated, doesnt have to cost 0.. Commencement pays 7 mana to play a more expensive minion + taunt/DS + 01 card draw, it only discounts around 6 mana but its certainly mana cheating. Its not something cut and dry, theres room for interpretation here I think.
I dont think anyone would be complaining about GA if Albatross was a good tech option bro, just saying LOL
It’s cut and dried. When posters say “it’s a form of mana cheating” and ramp is mana cheating, it’s wrong and it makes them look butthurt for losing to a deck because they can’t counter it. Commencement isn’t mana cheating, it’s value. It doesn’t always summon more expensive minions, it summons random minions, so to ensure your example works you are playing a deck without any minions under seven cost. Otherwise you are just rolling the dice which is definitely not mana cheating... it’s not even cards...
Loling at albatross tech will bite you in a week. Control decks take time to be refined because they need the other top decks to settle first. Pure paladin, all highlander decks and druid get hurt by albatross. Priest will be the top control deck because silence and hard removal are extremely valuable in this expansion. Have you ever played a priest deck after they summon their fourth or fifth albatross? Just wait and see, albatross will be a solid tech card against druid and paladin.
The definition people are using is wrong. There is a reason things have definitions. Linguini is like spaghetti, but it’s incorrect to call linguini spaghetti. Mana cheating has been a concept in TCGs before hearthstone ever existed. It is playing a card for little or no cost before you could pay for it. It’s playing SotF for free six turns early. It’s using elvish piper to play an eldrazi turn 5.
As for GA, 14 mana (best case scenario) for 7 is extremely valuable and a bit overpowered. It’s not mana cheating. Playing it for free on turn 4-5 is. Also, you know what really screws up that strategy? Making them draw one cost beasts. Now if only there was a card that would put two 1/1 beasts in the opponent’s deck...
By that definition any card played using innervate/lightning bloom was mana cheated, doesnt have to cost 0.. Commencement pays 7 mana to play a more expensive minion + taunt/DS + 01 card draw, it only discounts around 6 mana but its certainly mana cheating. Its not something cut and dry, theres room for interpretation here I think.
I dont think anyone would be complaining about GA if Albatross was a good tech option bro, just saying LOL
It is a good tech option: just not one people are willing to use. Because people would rather demand Blizzard "fix it" (which just means, "make my favorite deck better") then do the hard work of fixing their own decks. I just played a variant of this Druid deck and got utterly wrecked by a control Priest. The meta adjusts: people just need to give it time.
I think it all really started to worsen when they introduced the recruit mechanics with the kobolds and catacombs expansion. Hunter was ruling the meta with Kathrena Winterwisp and Charged Devilsaur. The stats probably showed to Blizz that a majority of players were going for this type of deck. Nothing wrong with that except that now it has reached such a level that it is beyond ridiculous. I just hope now that they will make the right nerfs next week.
It goes way further back than Recruit. Free Patches, Quest Rogue, Jade Druid, infinite Fireball Mage, Big Priest and plenty more besides all cheating the cost of things. Cheating that cost is and always has been at the core of HS.
Well there is not conflict in our arguments. I am not denying that it goes further than Recruit. I am just saying that it got worse with Kobold and catacombs expansion. This being said I would not consider Jade druid are pure mana cheating, there was build up curve and you could disrupt/delay the arrival of the huge jades. Infinite Fireball mage was an OTK nor really mana cheating as you could only play these fireballs after getting the combo cards and that gave you time to try to beat the deck. Big Barnes Priest, it was mana cheating but it was not as ridiculous as it is now I don't think it was even tier one at that time. As for Quest Rogue The Caverns Below I guess I do agree with you. It was a nightmare!
We all know the culprits Guardian Druid, Libram Pal, Big Warrior, Special mention for Gibberling Druid!! I know it's fun and spectacular but its also mostly unfair!!! 4-5 minions on the board on turn 1 and you have 1 mana to answer that? Come on Blizz! Did they really test these cards? Huge minions by turn 4/5? Unplayable. I tried these decks, easy wins, yes, and I have never seen so many opponents just concede but is this really what HS is about? Where are they going with this?
None of those decks aside from Gibbering can get 4-5 minions out on the first turn.... you’re over exaggerating .
Honestly I think it's stupid to blame the mana cheating on ramping. It's a strategy that exists em pretty much every card game. Without mana ramp druid literally doesn't have advantages against every other class. The cards are meh (standard ones, Ultimate infestation is still balls to the wall) and the hero power is meh. What makes them good is literally the ramping but yeah i kinda believe they abused on the amount of ramp avaliable. But libram paladin is beyond mental... That spellsburst legendary is just ridiculous. They wanted it to be an archetype so bad that they went too far. But yeah. Tone down Paladin (revert the buffs and nerf the legendary) and druid (overgrowth to 5 mana should be ok) and for the love of god don't kill Kael'thas. Also I know it's not meta anymore but Heistbaron Togwaggle still needs to be balanced. I agree with ramp but i don't agree with 0 mana cards that should cost 6/7.
We all know the culprits Guardian Druid, Libram Pal, Big Warrior, Special mention for Gibberling Druid!! I know it's fun and spectacular but its also mostly unfair!!! 4-5 minions on the board on turn 1 and you have 1 mana to answer that? Come on Blizz! Did they really test these cards? Huge minions by turn 4/5? Unplayable. I tried these decks, easy wins, yes, and I have never seen so many opponents just concede but is this really what HS is about? Where are they going with this?
None of those decks aside from Gibbering can get 4-5 minions out on the first turn.... you’re over exaggerating .
You misread my post you are just confirming what I said. Read again, I mentioned Gibberling druid in my OP and this is why I talked about having 4-5 minions on the board on turn one to illustrate what Gibberling can do. Hope its clearer now. I experienced it first hand he played FIRST and had FIVE minions on the board:https://hsreplay.net/replay/uCfiYWFLNGkoZEeFJMVBnc
Burn.
That is exactly like saying "My d..k is bigger than yours!" to a random stranger on the street. There is no way you could know such a thing beforehand.
This is a forum for people all around the world, you have no idea what kind of monsters lurk out there, dude. Be careful! ;)
Agreed. The deck IS beatable, but not by every deck. That's always been the case in HS.
Enough with the personal attacks and insults. Stick to the topic at hand.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
Right now, SotF druid is the first deck that works well. It is rock and rock hits you in the face and hurts. Mozaki OTK mage is a really good scissor, but it still loses to rock. Priest, warrior and maybe handlock will make a good paper and the meta will be mostly balanced. Control decks take longer to figure out than aggro decks or decks where the “trick” is to use kael to play a 10-cost card for free. Hardly anyone is running silence, minion stealing or albatrosses. Give it a week and druid will drop because giant buffed minions will be a liability for Cabal Acolyte and Wave of Apathy.
P4dge has a point, but I don't fully agree with him. Generalization is never a good thing (although I admit being guilty of doing such a thing from time to time).
the only cards that see massive play are cards that cheat all in themselves, it's not just mana
getting really frickin annoying to say the least
By that definition any card played using innervate/lightning bloom was mana cheated, doesnt have to cost 0.. Commencement pays 7 mana to play a more expensive minion + taunt/DS + 01 card draw, it only discounts around 6 mana but its certainly mana cheating. Its not something cut and dry, theres room for interpretation here I think.
I dont think anyone would be complaining about GA if Albatross was a good tech option bro, just saying LOL
It’s cut and dried. When posters say “it’s a form of mana cheating” and ramp is mana cheating, it’s wrong and it makes them look butthurt for losing to a deck because they can’t counter it. Commencement isn’t mana cheating, it’s value. It doesn’t always summon more expensive minions, it summons random minions, so to ensure your example works you are playing a deck without any minions under seven cost. Otherwise you are just rolling the dice which is definitely not mana cheating... it’s not even cards...
Loling at albatross tech will bite you in a week. Control decks take time to be refined because they need the other top decks to settle first. Pure paladin, all highlander decks and druid get hurt by albatross. Priest will be the top control deck because silence and hard removal are extremely valuable in this expansion. Have you ever played a priest deck after they summon their fourth or fifth albatross? Just wait and see, albatross will be a solid tech card against druid and paladin.
It is a good tech option: just not one people are willing to use. Because people would rather demand Blizzard "fix it" (which just means, "make my favorite deck better") then do the hard work of fixing their own decks. I just played a variant of this Druid deck and got utterly wrecked by a control Priest. The meta adjusts: people just need to give it time.
Well there is not conflict in our arguments. I am not denying that it goes further than Recruit. I am just saying that it got worse with Kobold and catacombs expansion. This being said I would not consider Jade druid are pure mana cheating, there was build up curve and you could disrupt/delay the arrival of the huge jades. Infinite Fireball mage was an OTK nor really mana cheating as you could only play these fireballs after getting the combo cards and that gave you time to try to beat the deck. Big Barnes Priest, it was mana cheating but it was not as ridiculous as it is now I don't think it was even tier one at that time. As for Quest Rogue The Caverns Below I guess I do agree with you. It was a nightmare!
None of those decks aside from Gibbering can get 4-5 minions out on the first turn.... you’re over exaggerating .
Honestly I think it's stupid to blame the mana cheating on ramping. It's a strategy that exists em pretty much every card game. Without mana ramp druid literally doesn't have advantages against every other class. The cards are meh (standard ones, Ultimate infestation is still balls to the wall) and the hero power is meh. What makes them good is literally the ramping but yeah i kinda believe they abused on the amount of ramp avaliable. But libram paladin is beyond mental... That spellsburst legendary is just ridiculous. They wanted it to be an archetype so bad that they went too far. But yeah. Tone down Paladin (revert the buffs and nerf the legendary) and druid (overgrowth to 5 mana should be ok) and for the love of god don't kill Kael'thas. Also I know it's not meta anymore but Heistbaron Togwaggle still needs to be balanced. I agree with ramp but i don't agree with 0 mana cards that should cost 6/7.
You misread my post you are just confirming what I said. Read again, I mentioned Gibberling druid in my OP and this is why I talked about having 4-5 minions on the board on turn one to illustrate what Gibberling can do. Hope its clearer now. I experienced it first hand he played FIRST and had FIVE minions on the board:https://hsreplay.net/replay/uCfiYWFLNGkoZEeFJMVBnc
And also you can check this post.https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/244197-scholomance-meta-strongest-opening-what-the-hell