We've got to the point where the game is decided by who can do the more unfair thing faster. When that happens to you, you just concede and move on, the whole "playing the game" part seems irrelevant and unnecessary now...
All classes cheat the mana cost one way or another to varying degree depending on which snapshot of time you look at.
But it's really incomparable between classes. Basically, the more mana cheat class has, the better it performs nowadays. Take a look at meta rankings, it's no coincidence that classes with least mana cheating are at the bottom (Warlock, Schaman, Mage) and those with biggest cheats are at the top (Druid, Paladin, Demon Hunter, Hunter).
He is trying to tell you Hearthstone has always been more or less like this, with some classes being better at mana cheating than others during a particular period of time. For example, Undertaker Hunter was all about mana cheating too, but it was done in a more subtle way, that's all.
I remember when a 4 mana 7/7 was considered crazy Blizzard really did it this time they could revert every single demon hunter nerf and the class would still be shit because of how broken they made so many decks
The priest "Rework" was a giant failure not surprised tho the very concept of reworking something in a game is stupid to begin with yet alone a card game
There's also way way too many discover/add random cards in the game at this point which is another "resource cheating" issue. Using cards that can't trade 1-3 or at least 1-2 is meaningless.
You don't play around any removal because it's not feasible, just keep slamming your minions/spells on curve and hope they haven't discovered an answer.
Maybe they should just bite the bullet and accept that if they want to keep printing more and more powerful shit to sell packs (and they do) they should just bump the health pools. It's simply not the same game it was when 30hp was made the baseline.
High rolls lead to unanswerable boards in the first two turns and resource management went out the window with all the random ass card generation. Aggro is given insane card draw, and the swing potential of the late game decks with all the mana cheating is crazy now ...every aspect of the game has been pushed to the limits it seems to me. Maybe more health really is the answer?
I remember when a 4 mana 7/7 was considered crazy Blizzard really did it this time they could revert every single demon hunter nerf and the class would still be shit because of how broken they made so many decks
The priest "Rework" was a giant failure not surprised tho the very concept of reworking something in a game is stupid to begin with yet alone a card game
A 4 mana 7/7 would still be very strong against most classes. You uh, wanna extrapolate on the priest rework beign bad? Priest is more relevant now than it's ever been.
The problem is not the mana cheating, its the lack of SETUP: all you need is to play Guardian Animals once and you win, everything after that is pure auto-pilot. I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play.. this druid deck is more brain dead than aggro lol, its impossible to make a mistake.
I do believe Kael should have a once per turn clause though, allowing its effect to activate multiple times is just asking for trouble..
I think this expansion has been a blast so far personally. I've lost to some crazy shit, I've won by using some crazy shit. The brawl a few weeks ago is a highlight of what I personally do not find fun in hearthstone. Which player draws mind control first and is able to control the yeti isn't my idea of fun. Start a new account and spend 50 levels in pretty much demon hunter mirror matches, no generation, no discover really, just straight up who draws their best stuff and plays it in a good order tends to win. That was a mind numbingly boring experience. I like that my priest opponent can end the match as reno, it's not what I expected going into that match and it probably won't happen for many games after. When most matches feel the same it gets stale very quickly.
I think some people may take the game too seriously and play it way too much. I understand streamers because it's the way they make a living but I imagine some people can spend 3/4/5 hours on this game fairly frequently and you end up being way too butt hurt about it.
I enjoy the game for what it is and I like that I can play it for 20 minutes if that's all I have. I'm not stuck with some huge grind commitment or needing to put an hour + in just to get anything from it. It's simple, fun and addictive but it isn't a perfectly balanced strategic test of sheer skill. That doesn't mean there isn't skill, there totally is but dump your time into chess or something if you want a really intense, purely decision driven game. I'll continue enjoying puzzle boxes and not bursting veins over a card game.
The best and most memorable moments I've had with this game have been because of its crazy, goofy setup. The exception being the most amazing defile against hadronox druid that I've ever played and was a completely calculated and genius way to clear 2 full boards of taunts. That I'll take credit full credit for.
The problem is not the mana cheating, its the lack of SETUP: all you need is to play Guardian Animals once and you win, everything after that is pure auto-pilot. I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play.. this druid deck is more brain dead than aggro lol, its impossible to make a mistake.
I do believe Kael should have a once per turn clause though, allowing its effect to activate multiple times is just asking for trouble..
That's just not true. Period. Guardian Animals played early is very powerful. Played on curve, it's good, depending on what beasts get summoned. Played late it is entirely manageable. Again, the problem is Kael.
The problem is not the mana cheating, its the lack of SETUP: all you need is to play Guardian Animals once and you win, everything after that is pure auto-pilot. I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play.. this druid deck is more brain dead than aggro lol, its impossible to make a mistake.
I do believe Kael should have a once per turn clause though, allowing its effect to activate multiple times is just asking for trouble..
That's just not true. Period. Guardian Animals played early is very powerful. Played on curve, it's good, depending on what beasts get summoned. Played late it is entirely manageable. Again, the problem is Kael.
NO. The problem is when a deck with tons of ramping can recover the tempo lost and refill the hand in just one turn as we saw in KotFT with ultimate infestation, when druid was 60% of the ladder. The deck does not need Kaelthas to stomp you on turn 3-4.
The problem is not the mana cheating, its the lack of SETUP: all you need is to play Guardian Animals once and you win, everything after that is pure auto-pilot. I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play.. this druid deck is more brain dead than aggro lol, its impossible to make a mistake.
I do believe Kael should have a once per turn clause though, allowing its effect to activate multiple times is just asking for trouble..
That's just not true. Period. Guardian Animals played early is very powerful. Played on curve, it's good, depending on what beasts get summoned. Played late it is entirely manageable. Again, the problem is Kael.
NO. The problem is when a deck with tons of ramping can recover the tempo lost and refill the hand in just one turn as we saw in KotFT with ultimate infestation, when druid was 60% of the ladder. The deck does not need Kaelthas to stomp you on turn 3-4.
You're missing my point: he said "all you need to do is play GA once and you win." That's absolutely 100% wrong. Again, played early it is game-ending (or nearly so). Played anywhere between turn 6 and 8 or 9 is tough to respond to, but recoverable. After turn 9, if you can't deal with 2 5 mana beasts (especially against a deck with very limited remove), you deserve to lose. Period. It's only Kael that lets you rush out 2 buffed beasts crazy early.
The problem is not the mana cheating, its the lack of SETUP: all you need is to play Guardian Animals once and you win, everything after that is pure auto-pilot. I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play.. this druid deck is more brain dead than aggro lol, its impossible to make a mistake.
I do believe Kael should have a once per turn clause though, allowing its effect to activate multiple times is just asking for trouble..
That's just not true. Period. Guardian Animals played early is very powerful. Played on curve, it's good, depending on what beasts get summoned. Played late it is entirely manageable. Again, the problem is Kael.
NO. The problem is when a deck with tons of ramping can recover the tempo lost and refill the hand in just one turn as we saw in KotFT with ultimate infestation, when druid was 60% of the ladder. The deck does not need Kaelthas to stomp you on turn 3-4.
All classes cheat mana one way or another, thats part of hearthstone. Druid gives up the early game to play expensive cards earlier than usual, that is a balanced trade if the druid has to work to pull off the tempo swing. A good example is the Exotic Mountseller shenanigans: very powerful tempo swing, but requires a lot of cards in hand and proper setup on the druids part, so even though it is very powerful, it is balanced.
Guardian Animals is broken cuz you just need to play it as quickly as possible to swing the board, no setup required, the exact same problem with Ultimate Infestation. Everytime Ramp Druid can swing the board with just one card they break the game, cuz then the ramp payoff is ALWAYS guaranteed, which should never be the case.
Mana cheating is fine and an integral part of the game, getting a guaranteed high return for it everytime is the problem.
The problem is not the mana cheating, its the lack of SETUP: all you need is to play Guardian Animals once and you win, everything after that is pure auto-pilot. I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play.. this druid deck is more brain dead than aggro lol, its impossible to make a mistake.
I do believe Kael should have a once per turn clause though, allowing its effect to activate multiple times is just asking for trouble..
That's just not true. Period. Guardian Animals played early is very powerful. Played on curve, it's good, depending on what beasts get summoned. Played late it is entirely manageable. Again, the problem is Kael.
NO. The problem is when a deck with tons of ramping can recover the tempo lost and refill the hand in just one turn as we saw in KotFT with ultimate infestation, when druid was 60% of the ladder. The deck does not need Kaelthas to stomp you on turn 3-4.
All classes cheat mana one way or another, thats part of hearthstone. Druid gives up the early game to play expensive cards earlier than usual, that is a balanced trade if the druid has to work to pull off the tempo swing. A good example is the Exotic Mountseller shenanigans: very powerful tempo swing, but requires a lot of cards in hand and proper setup on the druids part, so even though it is very powerful, it is balanced.
Guardian Animals is broken cuz you just need to play it as quickly as possible to swing the board, no setup required, the exact same problem with Ultimate Infestation. Everytime Ramp Druid can swing the board with just one card they break the game, cuz then the ramp payoff is ALWAYS guaranteed, which should never be the case.
Mana cheating is fine and an integral part of the game, getting a guaranteed high return for it everytime is the problem.
But exotic mountseller does not let you draw cards or kill their minions, GA does.
But exotic mountseller does not let you draw cards or kill their minions, GA does.
It CAN do ALL those things (depending on the cheap spells you used), but not EVERYTIME, it VARIES.. Thats the big difference, you see? Guardian Animals is the equivalent of a perfect Mountseller turn, just like UI was the equivalent of a perfect Auctioneer miracle turn. The problem is not the ramp itself, its the ramp payoff being too consistently high all the time that breaks it.
But exotic mountseller does not let you draw cards or kill their minions, GA does.
It CAN do ALL those things (depending on the cheap spells you used), but not EVERYTIME, it VARIES.. Thats the big difference, you see? Guardian Animals is the equivalent of a perfect Mountseller turn, just like UI was the equivalent of a perfect Auctioneer miracle turn. The problem is not the ramp itself, its the ramp payoff being too consistently high all the time that breaks it.
I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play..
Can you give an example? Because somehow nothing comes to my mind.
Risky Skipper swings, Exotic Mountseller swings are fresh, great examples. My all time favorites are Miracle Rogue Auctioneer turns and Handlock Molten Giants "clear board into taunt up", really miss those days..
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He is trying to tell you Hearthstone has always been more or less like this, with some classes being better at mana cheating than others during a particular period of time. For example, Undertaker Hunter was all about mana cheating too, but it was done in a more subtle way, that's all.
Just we need more hand traps in this game.
Life is not fair, so why Hearthstone should be different?
Sorry, edgy comment, I know. Couldn't resist, that's all.
Ignore me! XD
I remember when a 4 mana 7/7 was considered crazy Blizzard really did it this time they could revert every single demon hunter nerf and the class would still be shit because of how broken they made so many decks
The priest "Rework" was a giant failure not surprised tho the very concept of reworking something in a game is stupid to begin with yet alone a card game
There's also way way too many discover/add random cards in the game at this point which is another "resource cheating" issue. Using cards that can't trade 1-3 or at least 1-2 is meaningless.
You don't play around any removal because it's not feasible, just keep slamming your minions/spells on curve and hope they haven't discovered an answer.
Piloted Shredder, Knife Juggler, Mad Scientist, Dr. Boom
Need to be removed from this game
Maybe they should just bite the bullet and accept that if they want to keep printing more and more powerful shit to sell packs (and they do) they should just bump the health pools. It's simply not the same game it was when 30hp was made the baseline.
High rolls lead to unanswerable boards in the first two turns and resource management went out the window with all the random ass card generation. Aggro is given insane card draw, and the swing potential of the late game decks with all the mana cheating is crazy now ...every aspect of the game has been pushed to the limits it seems to me. Maybe more health really is the answer?
A 4 mana 7/7 would still be very strong against most classes. You uh, wanna extrapolate on the priest rework beign bad? Priest is more relevant now than it's ever been.
The problem is not the mana cheating, its the lack of SETUP: all you need is to play Guardian Animals once and you win, everything after that is pure auto-pilot. I dont mind a deck having powerful tempo swings/mana cheating as long as it takes thought to play.. this druid deck is more brain dead than aggro lol, its impossible to make a mistake.
I do believe Kael should have a once per turn clause though, allowing its effect to activate multiple times is just asking for trouble..
Why are they waiting so much to nerf the druid bullshit?
I think this expansion has been a blast so far personally. I've lost to some crazy shit, I've won by using some crazy shit. The brawl a few weeks ago is a highlight of what I personally do not find fun in hearthstone. Which player draws mind control first and is able to control the yeti isn't my idea of fun. Start a new account and spend 50 levels in pretty much demon hunter mirror matches, no generation, no discover really, just straight up who draws their best stuff and plays it in a good order tends to win. That was a mind numbingly boring experience. I like that my priest opponent can end the match as reno, it's not what I expected going into that match and it probably won't happen for many games after. When most matches feel the same it gets stale very quickly.
I think some people may take the game too seriously and play it way too much. I understand streamers because it's the way they make a living but I imagine some people can spend 3/4/5 hours on this game fairly frequently and you end up being way too butt hurt about it.
I enjoy the game for what it is and I like that I can play it for 20 minutes if that's all I have. I'm not stuck with some huge grind commitment or needing to put an hour + in just to get anything from it. It's simple, fun and addictive but it isn't a perfectly balanced strategic test of sheer skill. That doesn't mean there isn't skill, there totally is but dump your time into chess or something if you want a really intense, purely decision driven game. I'll continue enjoying puzzle boxes and not bursting veins over a card game.
The best and most memorable moments I've had with this game have been because of its crazy, goofy setup. The exception being the most amazing defile against hadronox druid that I've ever played and was a completely calculated and genius way to clear 2 full boards of taunts. That I'll take credit full credit for.
Flame Imp is mana cheating because you get a 2-drop for 1 mana. Blizzard should stop this!
That's just not true. Period. Guardian Animals played early is very powerful. Played on curve, it's good, depending on what beasts get summoned. Played late it is entirely manageable. Again, the problem is Kael.
NO. The problem is when a deck with tons of ramping can recover the tempo lost and refill the hand in just one turn as we saw in KotFT with ultimate infestation, when druid was 60% of the ladder. The deck does not need Kaelthas to stomp you on turn 3-4.
You're missing my point: he said "all you need to do is play GA once and you win." That's absolutely 100% wrong. Again, played early it is game-ending (or nearly so). Played anywhere between turn 6 and 8 or 9 is tough to respond to, but recoverable. After turn 9, if you can't deal with 2 5 mana beasts (especially against a deck with very limited remove), you deserve to lose. Period. It's only Kael that lets you rush out 2 buffed beasts crazy early.
Can you give an example? Because somehow nothing comes to my mind.
All classes cheat mana one way or another, thats part of hearthstone. Druid gives up the early game to play expensive cards earlier than usual, that is a balanced trade if the druid has to work to pull off the tempo swing. A good example is the Exotic Mountseller shenanigans: very powerful tempo swing, but requires a lot of cards in hand and proper setup on the druids part, so even though it is very powerful, it is balanced.
Guardian Animals is broken cuz you just need to play it as quickly as possible to swing the board, no setup required, the exact same problem with Ultimate Infestation. Everytime Ramp Druid can swing the board with just one card they break the game, cuz then the ramp payoff is ALWAYS guaranteed, which should never be the case.
Mana cheating is fine and an integral part of the game, getting a guaranteed high return for it everytime is the problem.
But exotic mountseller does not let you draw cards or kill their minions, GA does.
It CAN do ALL those things (depending on the cheap spells you used), but not EVERYTIME, it VARIES.. Thats the big difference, you see? Guardian Animals is the equivalent of a perfect Mountseller turn, just like UI was the equivalent of a perfect Auctioneer miracle turn. The problem is not the ramp itself, its the ramp payoff being too consistently high all the time that breaks it.
So, what is the connection with kael then?
Risky Skipper swings, Exotic Mountseller swings are fresh, great examples. My all time favorites are Miracle Rogue Auctioneer turns and Handlock Molten Giants "clear board into taunt up", really miss those days..