Ladder really needs to be fixed, and I'm rather surprised that Blizzard, who's mentioned fixing it for a while now, hasn't changed anything yet. A little bit of a background on me: After mainly doing Arena for the first two years since Beta, I switched over to playing constructed at around the time Arena switched to Standard format. And I've generally enjoyed constructed, and I'd like to do ladder, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't feel worth it. I generally make it to around rank 10 before just burning out. I want to want to go higher, but I just don't have the desire or incentive to do it.
There's two major problems with ladder really:
1. It's such a grind: Don't get me wrong, I don't think reaching legend or even rank 5 should be easy. The problem here is that in my head, I'm just thinking "Is it really worth grinding a few hours more to go up one rank?" I mean, what does it give you? 5 more dust at the end of the month? Unless you are going legend for the first time, or really, really want that epic at rank 5, what incentive is there to pound out hours of Hearthstone ladder play? I'm just thinking: Why would I spend hours and hours to go up a few more levels only to reset it at the end of the month, and then have to repeat it? It just doesn't seem worth it.
2. It's oppressive at low levels: Now, I *personally* don't have a problem with this, but it's painfully obvious. I feel bad when I go from rank 18 or whatnot to rank 15 with my decks, when I'm facing against people who clearly don't have a full deck or are casual. Yeah, I destroy them, but I feel bad for them too. I don't want to be playing at this rank, and neither do they want me to be playing at this rank. I also have an alt account that's pretty thin on cards and once it hits rank 20, well, it's pretty rough for it. Basically, you can just stop playing ladder at that point for most casual players.
The Solution:
The solution I see is to reset players to the last "floor" they reached minus one. Blizzard created floors at levels 20, 15, 10, 5 and legend. So, I propose that once you reach a floor, next month you'll reset at the /previous/ floor. Thus:
If you reach legend, next month you start at rank 5
If you reach ranks 1-5, next month you start at rank 10
If you reach ranks 6-10, next month you start at rank 15
If you reach ranks 11-15, next month you start at rank 20
What does this mean? First, it keeps legend and top tier decks/players out of the lower ranks. Players at rank 15-20 aren't going to see players headed for legend with top decks. And legend players don't have to deal with the grind of levels 20-5 which are probably a joke to them and a waste of time each month. It keeps them focused on what they actually care about.
And secondly, it actually finally gives me a real incentive to grind out a few more levels any month. Now if I'm sitting at rank 7, I actually want to grind it out to rank 5, because that'll save me 5 levels the following month. Accomplishments now have a much bigger tangible effect on the future than this "one star per level" it is now.
Third, it may even cut down on the aggro/fast decks, that people try to play to make the games quicker and the grind less. Probably not, but maybe, just maybe, people will branch out when the task of leveling up in ladder is less daunting.
What do you think? It seems like a such an obvious solution that benefits everyone, players at legend, players (like me) in the mid-ranks, and the players who are just trying to reach rank 15 without having to play tier-1 decks.
All this plus a floor at every single rank you reach. Nothing shittier than being 1 star away from rank 5, then dropping all the way back down to rank 10 on a losing streak.
This will also make people more willing to experiment and take a non-meta deck to the ladder. You already see much more variety at "floor" ranks, why not make each rank a floor?
It is a really good idea, but i don't think it is enough for ladder. i have been playing this game since karazhan came out. and except my first month, i always managed to get to rank 5. i think a big problem for rank legend is that it's not motivating the reward for rank legend isn't much different from rank 5. and it requires to playing a lot of games to achieve it. and personally because the rewards sucks i never head for legend since it's a waste of time and i won't get anything.
so i think another good idea is to have a better reward for legend players. a good reward could be getting a golden legendary instead of golden epic. the game gets around 23 legendary each expansion (4 months), so even if a player managed to get to legend all the months he will just get 4 legendary for each set at most, so this reward doesn't hurt blizzard income.
another think i have taught about is to have an starting hand of 4 cards instead of 3 and 5 for your opponent. u might ask yourself how can this be good for ladder? and the answer is having more cards in your starting hand means you can play some more midrange and control decks. were u get less punished for your starting hand. and this causes more decks and archtypes on the ladder which is good.
and the last thing i really like this game have. is to have defferent rewards for wild and standard players. so if somebody plays standard and wild he gets 2 reward at the end of the season. this will give more rewards to players but this is good for blizzard too because players have to play a lot more and more players + more hours means better income for blizzard. (it's better to have wild cards for wild chests.)
I would like it if it were longer and had a "downtime" in between seasons. I'm not sure how they would implement this but I like what Overwatch does using placement matches. If you're not familiar, you reset every season and have to play 10 games to determine your ranking.
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Please note that with a system like that, bonus stars will shift the entire player population's rank upwards, eventually to the point that the legend rank has no meaning at all.
You have to choose one: bonus stars, or an easier grind to the top ranks every month. In games like Starcraft 2, you keep your mmr between seasons, but will not get double bonuses for win-streaks, for good reasons! The grind is much tougher, but ranking up actually means something. I was so proud for making platinum after grinding 20-wins-over-losses in one month.
It's an extremely good idea, my only concern is, would it depopulate or overpopulate certain rank floors? I am sure there are statistics out there somewhere on how many players finished at what rank by season, I just don't know where to look for them.
A change that I would like to see would be better win streak awards. Rather than just one additional star, make it one additional star per win, maxing out at 3. This would get the higher level players out of the lower ranks faster, and would help the average player advance a little easier if they have a really good run.
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Agree, I just reach rank 20 when I find a card back I really like, from the rest, I don`t bother playing ranked. Hopefully someday this system gets revamped since it shows with every expansions that it had not aged well.
It's an extremely good idea, my only concern is, would it depopulate or overpopulate certain rank floors? I am sure there are statistics out there somewhere on how many players finished at what rank by season, I just don't know where to look for them.
I think it's like 75% of the population is rank 15 or higher. This solution obviously would spread the population out more, which probably is a good thing. More than likely the result is that players who want to go legend each month will be in the Rank 5+ group, players with good decks/skills but don't care for the grind from 5 to legend will be in the 5-10 group (me), players with a solid deck but a few missing legendaries/epics will be in the 10-15 rank, and players just starting out or casuals will be in the 15-20 rank. That seems like a good way to spread it out and keep everyone somewhat separate, but also give people the incentive and chance to progress in ladder.
Nice idea man! It's not the perfect solution to the issue but for sure this simple fix will improve a lot the Ladder's experience, if it will ever be implemented. As someone suggested already, try to post it to Ben Brode's Twitter.
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For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
Nice idea man! It's not the perfect solution to the issue but for sure this simple fix will improve a lot the Ladder's experience, if it will ever be implemented. As someone suggested already, try to post it to Ben Brode's Twitter.
Don't have a twitter account. If anyone wants to do it, feel free. Maybe if enough people do it, it'll get his attention.
Ladder really needs to be fixed, and I'm rather surprised that Blizzard, who's mentioned fixing it for a while now, hasn't changed anything yet. A little bit of a background on me: After mainly doing Arena for the first two years since Beta, I switched over to playing constructed at around the time Arena switched to Standard format. And I've generally enjoyed constructed, and I'd like to do ladder, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't feel worth it. I generally make it to around rank 10 before just burning out. I want to want to go higher, but I just don't have the desire or incentive to do it.
There's two major problems with ladder really:
1. It's such a grind: Don't get me wrong, I don't think reaching legend or even rank 5 should be easy. The problem here is that in my head, I'm just thinking "Is it really worth grinding a few hours more to go up one rank?" I mean, what does it give you? 5 more dust at the end of the month? Unless you are going legend for the first time, or really, really want that epic at rank 5, what incentive is there to pound out hours of Hearthstone ladder play? I'm just thinking: Why would I spend hours and hours to go up a few more levels only to reset it at the end of the month, and then have to repeat it? It just doesn't seem worth it.
2. It's oppressive at low levels: Now, I *personally* don't have a problem with this, but it's painfully obvious. I feel bad when I go from rank 18 or whatnot to rank 15 with my decks, when I'm facing against people who clearly don't have a full deck or are casual. Yeah, I destroy them, but I feel bad for them too. I don't want to be playing at this rank, and neither do they want me to be playing at this rank. I also have an alt account that's pretty thin on cards and once it hits rank 20, well, it's pretty rough for it. Basically, you can just stop playing ladder at that point for most casual players.
The Solution:
The solution I see is to reset players to the last "floor" they reached minus one. Blizzard created floors at levels 20, 15, 10, 5 and legend. So, I propose that once you reach a floor, next month you'll reset at the /previous/ floor. Thus:
What does this mean? First, it keeps legend and top tier decks/players out of the lower ranks. Players at rank 15-20 aren't going to see players headed for legend with top decks. And legend players don't have to deal with the grind of levels 20-5 which are probably a joke to them and a waste of time each month. It keeps them focused on what they actually care about.
And secondly, it actually finally gives me a real incentive to grind out a few more levels any month. Now if I'm sitting at rank 7, I actually want to grind it out to rank 5, because that'll save me 5 levels the following month. Accomplishments now have a much bigger tangible effect on the future than this "one star per level" it is now.
Third, it may even cut down on the aggro/fast decks, that people try to play to make the games quicker and the grind less. Probably not, but maybe, just maybe, people will branch out when the task of leveling up in ladder is less daunting.
What do you think? It seems like a such an obvious solution that benefits everyone, players at legend, players (like me) in the mid-ranks, and the players who are just trying to reach rank 15 without having to play tier-1 decks.
This is quite the brilliant idea! Tweet it to Brode. Seriously.
/sign
All this plus a floor at every single rank you reach. Nothing shittier than being 1 star away from rank 5, then dropping all the way back down to rank 10 on a losing streak.
This will also make people more willing to experiment and take a non-meta deck to the ladder. You already see much more variety at "floor" ranks, why not make each rank a floor?
#nerfbarnes
It is a really good idea, but i don't think it is enough for ladder. i have been playing this game since karazhan came out. and except my first month, i always managed to get to rank 5. i think a big problem for rank legend is that it's not motivating the reward for rank legend isn't much different from rank 5. and it requires to playing a lot of games to achieve it. and personally because the rewards sucks i never head for legend since it's a waste of time and i won't get anything.
so i think another good idea is to have a better reward for legend players. a good reward could be getting a golden legendary instead of golden epic. the game gets around 23 legendary each expansion (4 months), so even if a player managed to get to legend all the months he will just get 4 legendary for each set at most, so this reward doesn't hurt blizzard income.
another think i have taught about is to have an starting hand of 4 cards instead of 3 and 5 for your opponent. u might ask yourself how can this be good for ladder? and the answer is having more cards in your starting hand means you can play some more midrange and control decks. were u get less punished for your starting hand. and this causes more decks and archtypes on the ladder which is good.
and the last thing i really like this game have. is to have defferent rewards for wild and standard players. so if somebody plays standard and wild he gets 2 reward at the end of the season. this will give more rewards to players but this is good for blizzard too because players have to play a lot more and more players + more hours means better income for blizzard. (it's better to have wild cards for wild chests.)
I would like it if it were longer and had a "downtime" in between seasons. I'm not sure how they would implement this but I like what Overwatch does using placement matches. If you're not familiar, you reset every season and have to play 10 games to determine your ranking.
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I like your idea!
Please note that with a system like that, bonus stars will shift the entire player population's rank upwards, eventually to the point that the legend rank has no meaning at all.
You have to choose one: bonus stars, or an easier grind to the top ranks every month. In games like Starcraft 2, you keep your mmr between seasons, but will not get double bonuses for win-streaks, for good reasons! The grind is much tougher, but ranking up actually means something. I was so proud for making platinum after grinding 20-wins-over-losses in one month.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
It's an extremely good idea, my only concern is, would it depopulate or overpopulate certain rank floors? I am sure there are statistics out there somewhere on how many players finished at what rank by season, I just don't know where to look for them.
A change that I would like to see would be better win streak awards. Rather than just one additional star, make it one additional star per win, maxing out at 3. This would get the higher level players out of the lower ranks faster, and would help the average player advance a little easier if they have a really good run.
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
Agree, I just reach rank 20 when I find a card back I really like, from the rest, I don`t bother playing ranked. Hopefully someday this system gets revamped since it shows with every expansions that it had not aged well.
I approve this message.
Nice idea man! It's not the perfect solution to the issue but for sure this simple fix will improve a lot the Ladder's experience, if it will ever be implemented. As someone suggested already, try to post it to Ben Brode's Twitter.
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
Record a rap video of your suggestion and tweet that
Yo! Got an idea to fix ladder, currently couldn't be more badder
Noobs abound, they astound, pull your head out yo' ass make these changes pass Brode!
Or I will explode you gonna cream your load when hear my suggestion - don't hear it on the bus you may get an erection
All the bitches will cheer when my idea they hear, all the ho booty gonna get real fruity
etc.