I'm not very convinced of the quality of this expansion but i'm willing to stay positive about it. All i can say is that i think that this expansion won't make a big difference in terms of aggro decks and jade druid tho i see the possibility of more late game oriented decks. Also and this is just my opinion i think that the DK hero cards won't make a big impact in the game same as Un'goro's quests did. Maybe one or two will shine and the other ones won't be worth to play or will simply become meme decks but that is left to be seen. That said i really dislike that i haven't seen kotft cards that push quests to be played more but that as well is still left to be seen. Don't get me wrong i'll try every card i get my hands on and there are a lot of cards i'd like to include in my decks that i think are really strong and good cards overall even DK hero cards and all that stuff but this expansion doesn't really promise much for me. Wish to be proven wrong
Toast is a dumbass and an attention seeker, you want real card reviews? Watch reynad. Honestly I can't stand toast and I don't understand how poeple can watch him.
Even though there might not be too many good cards (that's the case with like every expansion), I think the few good cards have the potentiel to be meta defining, cards like defile and corpsetaker.
I think negative reviews give them a broader audience and stronger (negative) reactions. Even bad publicity is publicity, so i think that may be one of the reasons of polarised reviews like that. "80% of cards are garbage" sounds much louder than "20% of the cards are good". The other one is the impossibility to correctly predict the value of the cards without actually playing them (though we all think it's easy due to the vast experience with the game), which proved itself every other expansion.
I love how people are saying "this expansion is this, this expansion is that" when the expansion is nothing at the moment, even small/shit expansions like Karazhan affected meta a lot, and the same will happen this time
also most people should stop taking this game so seriously, just have fun, most of you don't even try to get legend
I myself have been playing since GvG and I never got bored with any of the expansions and played most of the cards from each set, I also never got past rank 9 but simply because I don't care about it, I can't be arsed to grind, it's all about perspective and enough amounts of chill
This is the theory of card games, when you have a collection of cards, naturally only the best ones will be played, and those change when you put or remove more cards into the pool of choices.
See Medivh: before the rotation and HoF, every Midrange deck that wanted to play a finisher at 8 spot played Rag. After Rag rotated, suddenly the spot becomes available and a lot of decks started playing Medivh. Also, probably his spot will go to The Lich King now, because he affects the board more.
I see a lot of cards with enourmous meme potential, and that is a good thing, because meme decks are a card or two away to be good (like Silence Priest, that got good with Shadow Visions and Razorleaf).
Look at Warrior, they got a lot of cards for a Tempo deck, but such deck appears to be missing some cards yet. It probably will not be played at the top of the ladder, but will be a deck that have a lot of Fun, specially to be played at the ranked floors.
Reminder that while a lot of cards may be bad now there is only 1 more expansion in this standard format; and after that one; Mean Streets; Karazhan and Old Gods rotate out.
Expansions are not supposed to have too many viable cards in the top decks. Card games in general should avoid having too many insane cards in the meta because they usually lead to broken decks and synergies (see wild, legacy mtg, yu-gi-oh...). Imagine a world where all the classes are getting so many good cards in every mana spot and suddenly you're playing decks that don't have much weaknesses and have insane curves a la secret paladin or midrange shaman or can achieve broken combos like patron otk. Likewise, if you print 10 more good druid class cards and 10 good early game neutral minions, we'd be risking completely breaking token druid in standard. This is also one of the reasons they're moving away from good neutrals, remember how many good neutral aggro cards we had like juggler, leper gnome, abusive sergeant, haunted creeper... and they had to move away from those because every aggro deck could put those as the core and then fill the rest of the deck with all the broken class cards each class had.
25% competitive cards is a fair number. Keep in mind that many bad cards are catering to different kinds of players than super powerful cards, even the trashiest cards like renounce darkness or paladin quest see play below rank 15, where the majority of the players are. Another percentage of cards are there just to give more options in arena. Dozens more will see play as more expansions release and with rotation. Overall, actually a big amount of cards will see play, just not necessarily in tier 1-3 decks and not necessarily within the first months/year of their release.
Actually I'm not worried about exp but hey - I'm casual :D
One thing that I hoped to see was a card with Silence or a companion for Eater of Secrets ... Good thing is that there is only one charge, and it's not that cheap ;)
Toast is just angry that he didn't get a card to reveal because Blizzard is currently not too happy with him for leaking stuff and intentionally streaming game exploits. Also, it's worth mentioning that he's making comments like this to get people to talk about him.
This. And his stupid followers often associate his ugly face with positivity in the game. They post his BMs like wow Toast is awesome look at his smile. Cheesus!
Toast is a dumbass and an attention seeker, you want real card reviews? Watch reynad. Honestly I can't stand toast and I don't understand how poeple can watch him.
Even though there might not be too many good cards (that's the case with like every expansion), I think the few good cards have the potentiel to be meta defining, cards like defile and corpsetaker.
Toast sounds like he invented the wheel, but that's actually a general rule of every expansion. From constructed perspective only 20-25% of cards are playable. Higher diversity of cards can be seen only in the arena.
In MTG the percentage will be even drastically lower, I would say that it can't go beyond 10%.
Man, what a nice comment... just remembered my "dark" days.
I would like to add that to get those 10% or less you spend nearly 200 Dollars each expansion...
Sometimes I think Blizzard is greedy, but them I just remember how WotC is...
Perhaps we should examine comparing streamers picks of viability to a chicken picking card viability and see who's more accurate, at least then we can make some fun of it.
Un'Goro had what seems like an unusually high number of playable cards. Even that's maybe only 1/3 of the set. I'm sure once people get to playing with the cards the number that get into some decks will be higher than 20% (27 cards), but it's nothing new that the majority of cards aren't super strong. Got to consider arena, random effects, planning for future synergy (the Purify / Ferryman direction). It's really no different than any other CCG.
In any given expansion there are between 40 and 80 percent of cards that are viewed as unplayable. 1-2 of those are always stupid good, such as Dr. Boom or Crystal Core, but this is usually canceled out by cards that are thought to be good that end up being trash such as the warlock quest that I don't feel like spelling right now or The Marsh Queen
about 20% of those cards are seen in the new meta because keep in mind pros can only look at things from the current meta because they are not clairvoyant, though some like Trump try and predict the meta, but are almost always wrong because, again, they are not clairvoyant and those 1-2 card swaps I mentioned earlier always throw them off Examples of this are Mimic Pod where everyone thought the rouge quest would be trash and thus this card would be trash. so that takes us to between 1/3rd and 2/3rds of the cards will not see constructed play in the expansion, but keep in mind some cards from old expansions will see play in the new meta, such as swashburgler did not see much play before quest rouge.
THEN Old Gods, Karazan, and Mean Streets rotate out next year and ~20% of the cards in the current year that are "worse version of X card" will see play to replace X card that just got rotated out. Rinse and repeat for all expansions and all these kinds of discussions.
TL:DR The pros are guessing like the rest of us, they have no better idea of the future of the game than me or my pet turtle.
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Toast is probably still salty that he got thrown in Blizzard jail for showing a Hearthstone exploit on his stream
I'm not very convinced of the quality of this expansion but i'm willing to stay positive about it. All i can say is that i think that this expansion won't make a big difference in terms of aggro decks and jade druid tho i see the possibility of more late game oriented decks. Also and this is just my opinion i think that the DK hero cards won't make a big impact in the game same as Un'goro's quests did. Maybe one or two will shine and the other ones won't be worth to play or will simply become meme decks but that is left to be seen. That said i really dislike that i haven't seen kotft cards that push quests to be played more but that as well is still left to be seen. Don't get me wrong i'll try every card i get my hands on and there are a lot of cards i'd like to include in my decks that i think are really strong and good cards overall even DK hero cards and all that stuff but this expansion doesn't really promise much for me. Wish to be proven wrong
Stay awhile and listen!
I think negative reviews give them a broader audience and stronger (negative) reactions. Even bad publicity is publicity, so i think that may be one of the reasons of polarised reviews like that. "80% of cards are garbage" sounds much louder than "20% of the cards are good". The other one is the impossibility to correctly predict the value of the cards without actually playing them (though we all think it's easy due to the vast experience with the game), which proved itself every other expansion.
Thread has been cleaned up.
Your friendly neighborhood Sith would like to remind you to keep all posts on topic, and constructive.
kthnxbye
personally I think life steal is gonna fuck aggro hard
Oh no! Some millenial twink predicted your future?! Poor thing.
I love how people are saying "this expansion is this, this expansion is that" when the expansion is nothing at the moment, even small/shit expansions like Karazhan affected meta a lot, and the same will happen this time
also most people should stop taking this game so seriously, just have fun, most of you don't even try to get legend
I myself have been playing since GvG and I never got bored with any of the expansions and played most of the cards from each set, I also never got past rank 9 but simply because I don't care about it, I can't be arsed to grind, it's all about perspective and enough amounts of chill
Yeah, thats true. I have 11k gold and maybe I will not buy any packs. But it's depends on meta. If meta will be trash I will play only arena.
One day this game will stop existing. I can't wait.
This is the theory of card games, when you have a collection of cards, naturally only the best ones will be played, and those change when you put or remove more cards into the pool of choices.
See Medivh: before the rotation and HoF, every Midrange deck that wanted to play a finisher at 8 spot played Rag. After Rag rotated, suddenly the spot becomes available and a lot of decks started playing Medivh. Also, probably his spot will go to The Lich King now, because he affects the board more.
I see a lot of cards with enourmous meme potential, and that is a good thing, because meme decks are a card or two away to be good (like Silence Priest, that got good with Shadow Visions and Razorleaf).
Look at Warrior, they got a lot of cards for a Tempo deck, but such deck appears to be missing some cards yet. It probably will not be played at the top of the ladder, but will be a deck that have a lot of Fun, specially to be played at the ranked floors.
Reminder that while a lot of cards may be bad now there is only 1 more expansion in this standard format; and after that one; Mean Streets; Karazhan and Old Gods rotate out.
So a lot of cards may become relevant then.
Current Deck -http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/240420-army-paladin - Token Paladin
Same "pros" who said Caverns Below is garbage?
Expansions are not supposed to have too many viable cards in the top decks. Card games in general should avoid having too many insane cards in the meta because they usually lead to broken decks and synergies (see wild, legacy mtg, yu-gi-oh...). Imagine a world where all the classes are getting so many good cards in every mana spot and suddenly you're playing decks that don't have much weaknesses and have insane curves a la secret paladin or midrange shaman or can achieve broken combos like patron otk. Likewise, if you print 10 more good druid class cards and 10 good early game neutral minions, we'd be risking completely breaking token druid in standard. This is also one of the reasons they're moving away from good neutrals, remember how many good neutral aggro cards we had like juggler, leper gnome, abusive sergeant, haunted creeper... and they had to move away from those because every aggro deck could put those as the core and then fill the rest of the deck with all the broken class cards each class had.
25% competitive cards is a fair number. Keep in mind that many bad cards are catering to different kinds of players than super powerful cards, even the trashiest cards like renounce darkness or paladin quest see play below rank 15, where the majority of the players are. Another percentage of cards are there just to give more options in arena. Dozens more will see play as more expansions release and with rotation. Overall, actually a big amount of cards will see play, just not necessarily in tier 1-3 decks and not necessarily within the first months/year of their release.
Actually I'm not worried about exp but hey - I'm casual :D
One thing that I hoped to see was a card with Silence or a companion for Eater of Secrets ...
Good thing is that there is only one charge, and it's not that cheap ;)
Man, what a nice comment... just remembered my "dark" days.
I would like to add that to get those 10% or less you spend nearly 200 Dollars each expansion...
Sometimes I think Blizzard is greedy, but them I just remember how WotC is...
Perhaps we should examine comparing streamers picks of viability to a chicken picking card viability and see who's more accurate, at least then we can make some fun of it.
Un'Goro had what seems like an unusually high number of playable cards. Even that's maybe only 1/3 of the set. I'm sure once people get to playing with the cards the number that get into some decks will be higher than 20% (27 cards), but it's nothing new that the majority of cards aren't super strong. Got to consider arena, random effects, planning for future synergy (the Purify / Ferryman direction). It's really no different than any other CCG.
CCGing since '98.
In any given expansion there are between 40 and 80 percent of cards that are viewed as unplayable. 1-2 of those are always stupid good, such as Dr. Boom or Crystal Core, but this is usually canceled out by cards that are thought to be good that end up being trash such as the warlock quest that I don't feel like spelling right now or The Marsh Queen
about 20% of those cards are seen in the new meta because keep in mind pros can only look at things from the current meta because they are not clairvoyant, though some like Trump try and predict the meta, but are almost always wrong because, again, they are not clairvoyant and those 1-2 card swaps I mentioned earlier always throw them off Examples of this are Mimic Pod where everyone thought the rouge quest would be trash and thus this card would be trash. so that takes us to between 1/3rd and 2/3rds of the cards will not see constructed play in the expansion, but keep in mind some cards from old expansions will see play in the new meta, such as swashburgler did not see much play before quest rouge.
THEN Old Gods, Karazan, and Mean Streets rotate out next year and ~20% of the cards in the current year that are "worse version of X card" will see play to replace X card that just got rotated out. Rinse and repeat for all expansions and all these kinds of discussions.
TL:DR The pros are guessing like the rest of us, they have no better idea of the future of the game than me or my pet turtle.