Only cancer players. No one forces millions of people to play the same decks, they chose to on their own. 99.99999% of all netdeckers don't know each other and have individually decided to google "meta decks" or "pirate warrior" with no prompting from Blizzard or anyone else. The game isn't inherently flawed, people are and that's why I don't see Hearthstone changing any time soon. Even decks people consider "fun decks" wouldn't be fun if everyone played them.
It's one of the reasons why I slowed down a lot in playing is because it isn't the decks I'm tired of it's the monotony of facing the same decks over and over and over. I took a break from hearthstone and just today I faced 5 pirate warriors or aggro shamans in a row then went to wild and at rank 19 faced 2 secret pallys who spammed emotes every turn. I personally like mill decks and OTK decks but as the 2 or 3 card tavern brawl has shown me if I run into more than 3 or 4 mill decks/OTK decks in a row it becomes insanely boring. I think Blizzard needs to add a feature that prevents you from running into the exact same decks over and over. I don't mind seeing shamans but it gets boring to see tunnel trogg into totem golem etc every other game for the last year or so. Variety is the spice of life and I have no idea why more people don't want to even try new decks.
It's either kill by turn 5 or conceed against any reno deck. It's close to a 50% chance they will have Reno by turn 6-7. And all they have to do is stay alive until they can play it. So why play anything else? At least you have a near 50% chance of killing them before they can play it. No other deck is even worth trying. This is the current meta.
There probably are some people who dont care about not winning and try a lot of experimental decks, but majority of the game probably wants to climb up the ladder to get better rewards, if you get to rank 5 its over 400 dust (from the golden epic) every month, because the majority is the players who are worse at the game, not pros. And when you are a bad player (often because you are new) you lose a lot of games pretty much with any deck anyway so if they get the chance they will get that tier 1 deck that everyone else plays to get some wins finally. And even if they can afford it, they won't make like a tier 2,3,4 or 5 deck instead for the dust, because it's just not worth it for them to play a worse deck just for the variety if it's worse and doesn't even cost less most of the time. That pirate warrior is often people's only good deck that they saved up for and after making it are saving up for next expansion good deck, they aren't gonna make 2 more decks that are worse just for the variety.
every deck is the same. Only retard & brainless rich kid keep saying xxx deck cancer. They cannot play 30 legendary brainless deck or gimmick home brew deck (ie OTK priest, burglar rogue etc) or DW learn to play .They just keep spam salt threads here.
this games 90% RNG . Very low skill cap. You can be decent in 1 month. then All the deck are same.
don't tell me control vs control.= skill, or less cancer. the same thing happen. you can ask the experience reno player. what decide the games at the end. few example: One guy draw the perfect hand, end games in turn 6 with 3x 8-8 giant in board. Another guy get carry by Kazakus discover RNG(resurrect 3 high cost minion). Another guy dirty rat pull out Reno in 1 out of 5 chance. is that skill? maybe 10% for card playing order, trading, count for lethal etc.
and jade druid also hard counter control but less ppl complain here because they like to play greedy ramp druid. Anything change on druid may make the ramp druid become even worst.
Sorry, but if you think that playing pirate warrior and winning in 4 turns requires the same amount of skill as consistently winning control vs control games you're just delusional and don't play different decks to understand why people are frustrated... or insecure because you play nothing but trash cancer decks.
If you think that decks that can kill your opponent on turn 5 without them being able to do anything about it isn't Cancer then your right, no such thing as Cancer decks.
The reason many consider it Cancer is because it makes the game completely unenjoyable for people who actually want a skill based experience, losing in 5 turns and having no ability to counter-play makes you feel like shit because you lost to someone that did absolutely nothing but drag their mouse cursor from their side of the screen to your hero portrait for 5 turns.
When a deck is that powerful, its forces a large portion of the player base to use it because most players rather win than have a skill based experience which is why Blizzard doesn't do anything about Cancer decks or attempt to enforce a Control Meta because they want to please the majority of players who only care about winning and not the state of the meta.
Reno is only a problem for braindead aggro decks(Pirate Warrior), a Reno in a control vs control match up really isnt too relevant as your not trying to kill each other fast but trying to outvalue eachother, if you get outvalued in a control vs control matchup Reno Jackson is almost irrelevant if you dont have enough card value to recover.
I play exclusively priest and have no problem with Reno Jackson only Aggro Players complain about him, he also adds a crazy amount of deck building strategy, something net-deckers don't care about.
Your logic is very flawed you think the term cancer deck only applies to face decks this is not the case at all, Take secret paladin for example which was also known as cancerdin that wasnt a deck that won the game on turn 5 without being able to do anything about it one of its main strengths was a 6 mana card, However it was still considered a cancer deck and a deck so strong it could be botted to legend rank, Sure it had counters just like pirate warrior does but people were not interested in playing the counters and winning X % of games when they could just play secret paladin and win a higher % of games.
So your "decks that can kill your opponent on turn 5 without them being able to do anything about it" means there isnt no such thing as cancer decks is actually very wrong since cancer decks have been around alot longer than pirate warriors and they werent always aggro decks, Cancer decks are just the decks that define a meta and if you think for one second that in a control meta there wouldnt be a deck or two decks that defined that meta and dominated you're very wrong and those would become the new pirate warriors, The new cancer decks but because they are control decks those wouldnt be cancer to you even if they were as dominant as pirate warriors are, Right?
The OP is right the deck isnt the cancer its the players, Take Reno Jackson for example not a new card, Was never a issue with players previously but now reno decks are meta decks that is now cancer, Not renolock or renomage or renopriest simply Reno Jackson, Those decks dont kill you on turn 5, Hell alot of the time they dont kill you on turn 10 and theres plenty of games that end up in fatigue yet they are still considered a cancer deck so as you can see its not about how quick the deck can kill you its just about how popular the deck becomes.
You have pirate warrior players who consider reno players cancer, You have reno players who consider pirate players cancer and quite a few who only play reno because it can counter pirate warriors and since those two type of players make up a large % of the player base in the game right now you have your cancer decks and those players will be the players who define the next meta and play the next cancer deck and counter cancer deck, So as the OP said its not the deck that is cancer its the player base that is the cancer.
How is it is the player is the cancer and not the deck that is the cancer you ask?, Well my friend i'll make it real simple for you, The decks change the players stay the same, Be it Reno, Be it pirate warrior, Be it aggro shaman, Be it secret paladin, Be it facehunter, Theres been many many decks that have been considered cancer and its a ever changing scene but the players who play them........Well they remain the same and aslong as those players remain the same you will have to deal with cancer its just a simple question of in what incarnation will it come next, Will it be the next pirate warrior, The next Reno Jackson or will it be the next secret paladin, Who knows, All we know for sure is theres going to be a meta and theres going to be decks that dominate that meta and those are the decks that will be played so much that pirate warrior and Reno Jackson become nothing but a memory like secret paladin did and the forums will be full of players screaming this is the worse meta ever and X is cancer and Y is cancer.
Blizzard can change the game, They can change the cards, What the cant do is change the players, They have changed the game, They have changed the cards but the players have not changed they still go to the strongest decks possible, It doesnt matter if its aggro midrange or control if that deck is dominant on the ladder it will become the new cancer deck and the players playing it will be those same players who played the current dominant decks, So yes cancer players not cancer decks is very much the truth.
I don't think Cancer applies only to Pirate Warrior or Face Decks, it was just the example I used, and I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
I believe Brann + Kazakus is a very large cancer right now. Being able to sheep the whole board, maybe twice, and resummoning 3/2 friendly minions, which again embraces RNGesus ( praying not to rez doomsayer, mistress of mixtures, or ooze). If I a making a deck, I always think about 2 things:
- Will I be able to live against aggro decks ( which also depends on good draws)
- Will I be able to do anything against a kazakus - combo?
Many will disaggree, but I think N'Zoth decks are kind of dead right now, just because once you play a deathrattle minion, they will fish for their mass sheep. Warlock also has really strong boardclears, and mage can have up to 4 Kaza potions.
A few week before, I was the same as you, and I still am really disgusted with these pirates, but we always had control decks to possibly outlive them. Now we have jade decks, which is very likely to outvalue them, and Kazakus decks, to destroy their plans, and most likely swing tempo / value to their sides.
The thing is, Kazakus is only one card, if they pull it too early, they many not predict the kind of deck you're playing. Second, sometimes you only draw him near fatigue. Third, and I talk by personal experience, sometimes you'll not get what you want, even when you brann him, sometimes you miss that crucial effect you need more on that matchup.
The problem with many other archtypes is not on a card that can screw their plans, the problem is many of them will not survive until they can pull off their strength.
And don't get me wrong, Kazakus is probably the most powerful card on this release, but requires some luck and decision making. If, for example, a N'zoth Rogue has a strong start vs a Kazakus deck, may lead the opponent to rush the 5 mana potion at turn 4 and dig for AoE and end up not being able to deny the dearthrattle minions value. He may be too greedy, get the answer, but end up with the card in hand because had nothing to answer and lost even without the opponent pulling the power play... Happens.
The card is there, has the potential, but you need to get it and time it good. I played some Reno decks too, and lost some games because I held kazakus too long for a greedy Brann wombo, others because I rushed it and lost value, and also won many without needing the potions at all... That's what's great with this game and makes it thrilling.
For me there's nothing as meta destroyer as Jade Druid against traditional Control decks, it completely destroys it. But in the other side, Jade Druid has a big Achilles heel called aggro, performs very bad against it, but not as crushing as it does to traditional Control, that's why it's not so popular nowadays as it was on launch.
The amount of people who post without actually reading is astonishing. I think less than 1/3 of you actually read what I said before responding. I got called a salty aggro player, a salty rich kid who only wants to play legendaries, a guy who thinks I'm smarter than everyone and a braindead idiot. I can't be all of these at the same time can I? All I want is some variety. How many of you honestly have tried making your own decks?
I made a fatigue warrior that I've been tweaking every expansion but it's currently around a 53% win rate which isn't great but it's also over 100 games with it in some shape or another. I think aggro shaman had like a 56% win rate which is infinitely better than 53% I guess. I also had a quest to play 50 shaman cards and made an aggressive 30 shaman card deck and went 3/3 at rank 6 against tier 1 decks. If you think a homebrew deck can't win you're part of the "cancer" so to speak because they can win and most of you haven't even tried.
change few card =home brew deck. Stupid net decking talk again.
really brainless when complain net decking in netdecking forum like heartpwn. Player now day really nothing to do.they complain about all deck with various of excuse.
it is also quite obviously that OP hate aggro deck. because he mention pirates deck in 1st threads. this also is fact because aggro really counter gimmick home brewl deck. besides, the home brew deck normally have decent win rate vs reno & control. OP quite satisfy with control match up,
Do you know what is tech? i confirm Fatigue warriors that you play is quite similar with other in net deck sides. atleast 70% of card is similar. You can only add & remove some taunting, more removal or extra win condition ( prince of mazahar or extra legendary etc) Change few card is only consider as tech choice.
change few card =home brew deck. Stupid net decking talk again.
really brainless when complain net decking in netdecking forum like heartpwn. Player now day really nothing to do.they complain about all deck with various of excuse.
it is also quite obviously that OP hate aggro deck. because he mention pirates deck in 1st threads. this also is fact because aggro really counter gimmick home brewl deck. besides, the home brew deck normally have decent win rate vs reno & control. OP quite satisfy with control match up,
Do you know what is tech? i confirm Fatigue warriors that you play is quite similar with other in net deck sides. atleast 70% of card is similar. You can only add & remove some taunting, more removal or extra win condition ( prince of mazahar or extra legendary etc) Change few card is only consider as tech choice.
???? I'm honestly not trying to take a shot at your english here but I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. When I said I tweaked my deck it doesn't mean I net deck and change 3 cards it means I've been using this deck since around TGT and when new cards come out I add/take out cards.
When you say "Quite obviously I hate aggro" "quite satisfy with control matchups" I'm guessing you didn't read my post or don't have mastery of the English language to know what points I was trying to convey. I don't hate aggro and I don't love control, I hate when the same decks make up a majority of ladder. It isn't fun for new players, it isn't fun for old players, the only people it's fun for are the people like you I'm assuming who jumped in right around secret pally meta and don't know any better.
There was a point when control and combo were OP and everyone complained about them too, mostly because they were too expensive for f2p players to use especially early. Handlock, Miracle Rogue and Control warrior used to be the "cancer" but even then it wasn't like everyone played them because they require a certain amount of skill and lots of cards. I think Pirate warrior and aggro shaman are just the most oppressive decks possibly of all time. I took over a month off recently and came back at rank 23 only to run into 3 pirate warriors in a row. I beat them pretty easily because they were bad players and made misplays like not attacking with patches turn 1 but the point is I've never seen handlocks or miracle rogues with the starting card back at rank 24... I want to face a variety of decks not just the same decks over and over but it seems like everyone values winning over variety and it's making the game feel stale
Only cancer players. No one forces millions of people to play the same decks, they chose to on their own. 99.99999% of all netdeckers don't know each other and have individually decided to google "meta decks" or "pirate warrior" with no prompting from Blizzard or anyone else. The game isn't inherently flawed, people are and that's why I don't see Hearthstone changing any time soon. Even decks people consider "fun decks" wouldn't be fun if everyone played them.
It's one of the reasons why I slowed down a lot in playing is because it isn't the decks I'm tired of it's the monotony of facing the same decks over and over and over. I took a break from hearthstone and just today I faced 5 pirate warriors or aggro shamans in a row then went to wild and at rank 19 faced 2 secret pallys who spammed emotes every turn. I personally like mill decks and OTK decks but as the 2 or 3 card tavern brawl has shown me if I run into more than 3 or 4 mill decks/OTK decks in a row it becomes insanely boring. I think Blizzard needs to add a feature that prevents you from running into the exact same decks over and over. I don't mind seeing shamans but it gets boring to see tunnel trogg into totem golem etc every other game for the last year or so. Variety is the spice of life and I have no idea why more people don't want to even try new decks.
Reno is the problem.
It's either kill by turn 5 or conceed against any reno deck. It's close to a 50% chance they will have Reno by turn 6-7. And all they have to do is stay alive until they can play it. So why play anything else? At least you have a near 50% chance of killing them before they can play it. No other deck is even worth trying. This is the current meta.
I can play Reno, I can play pirates, or I can play a deck that loses. You can have your variety, I prefer to win.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
The 1st step towards a better game is firing Mike Donais! We had enough of his "skillful" balances!
#FireMikeDonais
Another "my fun and skillful decks lose to the top fast metadecks" rant. Should be locked imo.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
There probably are some people who dont care about not winning and try a lot of experimental decks, but majority of the game probably wants to climb up the ladder to get better rewards, if you get to rank 5 its over 400 dust (from the golden epic) every month, because the majority is the players who are worse at the game, not pros. And when you are a bad player (often because you are new) you lose a lot of games pretty much with any deck anyway so if they get the chance they will get that tier 1 deck that everyone else plays to get some wins finally. And even if they can afford it, they won't make like a tier 2,3,4 or 5 deck instead for the dust, because it's just not worth it for them to play a worse deck just for the variety if it's worse and doesn't even cost less most of the time. That pirate warrior is often people's only good deck that they saved up for and after making it are saving up for next expansion good deck, they aren't gonna make 2 more decks that are worse just for the variety.
every deck is the same. Only retard & brainless rich kid keep saying xxx deck cancer. They cannot play 30 legendary brainless deck or gimmick home brew deck (ie OTK priest, burglar rogue etc) or DW learn to play .They just keep spam salt threads here.
this games 90% RNG . Very low skill cap. You can be decent in 1 month. then All the deck are same.
don't tell me control vs control.= skill, or less cancer. the same thing happen. you can ask the experience reno player. what decide the games at the end. few example: One guy draw the perfect hand, end games in turn 6 with 3x 8-8 giant in board. Another guy get carry by Kazakus discover RNG(resurrect 3 high cost minion). Another guy dirty rat pull out Reno in 1 out of 5 chance. is that skill? maybe 10% for card playing order, trading, count for lethal etc.
and jade druid also hard counter control but less ppl complain here because they like to play greedy ramp druid. Anything change on druid may make the ramp druid become even worst.
Sorry, but if you think that playing pirate warrior and winning in 4 turns requires the same amount of skill as consistently winning control vs control games you're just delusional and don't play different decks to understand why people are frustrated... or insecure because you play nothing but trash cancer decks.
Well I'm playing only combo like miracoli or Toasts djinny priest. With this decks hearthstone never gets boring and i'm still winning!
If you think that decks that can kill your opponent on turn 5 without them being able to do anything about it isn't Cancer then your right, no such thing as Cancer decks.
The reason many consider it Cancer is because it makes the game completely unenjoyable for people who actually want a skill based experience, losing in 5 turns and having no ability to counter-play makes you feel like shit because you lost to someone that did absolutely nothing but drag their mouse cursor from their side of the screen to your hero portrait for 5 turns.
When a deck is that powerful, its forces a large portion of the player base to use it because most players rather win than have a skill based experience which is why Blizzard doesn't do anything about Cancer decks or attempt to enforce a Control Meta because they want to please the majority of players who only care about winning and not the state of the meta.
Reno is only a problem for braindead aggro decks(Pirate Warrior), a Reno in a control vs control match up really isnt too relevant as your not trying to kill each other fast but trying to outvalue eachother, if you get outvalued in a control vs control matchup Reno Jackson is almost irrelevant if you dont have enough card value to recover.
I play exclusively priest and have no problem with Reno Jackson only Aggro Players complain about him, he also adds a crazy amount of deck building strategy, something net-deckers don't care about.
The amount of people who post without actually reading is astonishing. I think less than 1/3 of you actually read what I said before responding. I got called a salty aggro player, a salty rich kid who only wants to play legendaries, a guy who thinks I'm smarter than everyone and a braindead idiot. I can't be all of these at the same time can I? All I want is some variety. How many of you honestly have tried making your own decks?
I made a fatigue warrior that I've been tweaking every expansion but it's currently around a 53% win rate which isn't great but it's also over 100 games with it in some shape or another. I think aggro shaman had like a 56% win rate which is infinitely better than 53% I guess. I also had a quest to play 50 shaman cards and made an aggressive 30 shaman card deck and went 3/3 at rank 6 against tier 1 decks. If you think a homebrew deck can't win you're part of the "cancer" so to speak because they can win and most of you haven't even tried.
change few card =home brew deck. Stupid net decking talk again.
really brainless when complain net decking in netdecking forum like heartpwn. Player now day really nothing to do.they complain about all deck with various of excuse.
it is also quite obviously that OP hate aggro deck. because he mention pirates deck in 1st threads. this also is fact because aggro really counter gimmick home brewl deck. besides, the home brew deck normally have decent win rate vs reno & control. OP quite satisfy with control match up,
Do you know what is tech? i confirm Fatigue warriors that you play is quite similar with other in net deck sides. atleast 70% of card is similar. You can only add & remove some taunting, more removal or extra win condition ( prince of mazahar or extra legendary etc) Change few card is only consider as tech choice.