Just had a weird thought. Before WoG if you asked anyone which one card is OP in Secret Paladin most people would have said Mysterious Challenger. However the only card that really left specifically secret paladin was Avenge and you now don't see secret paladin in standard at all. So it begs the question was Dr 6. Really the OP card or was it Avenge. Dundundurn......
By the way I'm not saying one way or the other just curious what people think?
M8, it was because Dr.7 left, now secret pala doesnt have the "dr 6, dr 7 and dr 8" combo anymore. And for aggro palla, the reason Challenger isnt being used there is because the aggro game is so weak because they lost both Shielded Minibot and Muster, two of their best cards
Secret paladin didn't get inviable only because of Avenge, but because of Muster For Battle, Minibot, Piloted Shredder and all the important early game it lost
"Or of course, because you are 'a strong, independent deck builder, who needs no blizzard to tell them what to include', you make your deck deliberately weaker." - Skaduush1
I wouldn't be surprised if MC shows his face (so to speak) in Standard at some point. His battlecry is so card-efficient that it's a very tempting target to try and build a deck around, even still.
I totally agree that Avenge is key, though. Noble Sacrifice is now basically just a stall card, whereas before the combo with Avenge provided such an amazing tempo swing that it was a very effective weapon.
Just had a weird thought. Before WoG if you asked anyone which one card is OP in Secret Paladin most people would have said Mysterious Challenger. However the only card that really left specifically secret paladin was Avenge and you now don't see secret paladin in standard at all. So it begs the question was Dr 6. Really the OP card or was it Avenge. Dundundurn......
By the way I'm not saying one way or the other just curious what people think?
MC needed you to be either neutral or ahead on the board. Paladins early game took a big hit when they lost Minibot, Muster, Shredder, etc. Then if somehow you survived that early barrage with anything left, here came MC with huge value. If you somehow still dealt with MC, then the Paladin follows up with Dr. Boom (also gone).
All those things made paladin weaker in general, not particular exclusive to a paladin deck built around secrets. I can see why those are important. If Avenge hadn't left would it really be impossible to make a secret paladin without those?
All those things made paladin weaker in general, not particular exclusive to a paladin deck built around secrets. I can see why those are important. If Avenge hadn't left would it really be impossible to make a secret paladin without those?
Then Secret Paladin would be a deck where you're fighting to hold the board for 6 turns, and then Dr. 6 comes out and stabilizes for you.
I don't think it'd be impossible to do it, especially with Paladin's control tools.
"...the only card that really left specifically secret paladin was Avenge ..."?
Okay, Piloted Shredder was a commonly used neutral, but what about Shielded Minibot and Muster for Battle ? Basically they enabled secret Paladin to be that powerful since they kept the board clean for the arrival of Mysterious Challenger . And the decks which could handle Secret Paladin either did not care about board presence (face hunter/Shaman), had good removal while establishing an own board (Patron warrior) or had very good early game themselves (Dragon Priest). And while it is true that Avenge is Paladin's best secret and is dearly missing, I think that the lack of minibot and in particluar muster are more severe. MC will not be good enough without a proper early game since you can't have a couple of (bad) secrets, loads of removal for getting back the board(Equality/Pyro/Consecrate/Doomsayer) and enough threats (Tirion, replacement for Dr. Boom, Shredder, Loatheb) together in one deck.
All those things made paladin weaker in general, not particular exclusive to a paladin deck built around secrets. I can see why those are important. If Avenge hadn't left would it really be impossible to make a secret paladin without those?
Not impossible, no. But it wouldn't be nearly as strong as it was pre-WoG.
I wouldn't be surprised if MC shows his face (so to speak) in Standard at some point. His battlecry is so card-efficient that it's a very tempting target to try and build a deck around, even still.
I totally agree that Avenge is key, though. Noble Sacrifice is now basically just a stall card, whereas before the combo with Avenge provided such an amazing tempo swing that it was a very effective weapon.
I have a Secret pally c'thun deck. Removing 3 cards from your deck is pretty damn efficient when trying to get to c'thun fast. also punishing people with divine favor is still amazing.
Just had a weird thought. Before WoG if you asked anyone which one card is OP in Secret Paladin most people would have said Mysterious Challenger. However the only card that really left specifically secret paladin was Avenge and you now don't see secret paladin in standard at all. So it begs the question was Dr 6. Really the OP card or was it Avenge. Dundundurn......
By the way I'm not saying one way or the other just curious what people think?
And every single one of their overpowered on curve cards. Secret Paladin is just trash now because they don't have things like muster and minibot AND you don't need to play around the strongest secret they had. It's just much more reliable to go with hard control now. challenger is very much so an overpowered sack of shit and I hope they never print a card like it again, but the overall power level of decks has grown while theirs has gone down so they aren't nearly as good now.
MC was just a finisher (a pretty powerful at it) however Paladin had possibly all the best drops for it's mana cost during the TGT-LOE meta. So if you curve out well you are just likely to place the final nail in the coffin with MC. If that wasn't enough there was still two more minions to seal the deal. That's why oftenly the deck is called "brainless" as that different from other aggressive decks, the only decision making is either to trade or go face, since your hand simply spill out the beans for you.
It's not really a one or the other. Without avenge MC wouldn't have been great anyway. MC's value is counteracted by all the crap secrets that pollute your hand before turn 6. And a fair portion of the time you don't even draw him by turn 6.
Sure, when you could play minbot -> muster -> shredder -> loetheb -> Dr. 6 you won. But just because you dominate with a god hand doesn't make a deck consistently good.
All those things made paladin weaker in general, not particular exclusive to a paladin deck built around secrets. I can see why those are important. If Avenge hadn't left would it really be impossible to make a secret paladin without those?
Try to make a secret pally deck in Wild, using Avenge, and not using these cards. + no using Loatheb and Dr. Boom ofc
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Just had a weird thought. Before WoG if you asked anyone which one card is OP in Secret Paladin most people would have said Mysterious Challenger. However the only card that really left specifically secret paladin was Avenge and you now don't see secret paladin in standard at all. So it begs the question was Dr 6. Really the OP card or was it Avenge. Dundundurn......
By the way I'm not saying one way or the other just curious what people think?
Mysterious Challenger is still good with the value it brings on the board for 6 mana but since avenge is gone, it's not as OP.
That was topdecked? Nah, it was because I let the Heart of the Cards guide me ;)
All of the secrets you put in the secret paladin would chain together as soon as your opponent attacked. Avenge was a really big part of that chain.
M8, it was because Dr.7 left, now secret pala doesnt have the "dr 6, dr 7 and dr 8" combo anymore. And for aggro palla, the reason Challenger isnt being used there is because the aggro game is so weak because they lost both Shielded Minibot and Muster, two of their best cards
there are no secret pallys in standard because of no Muster for Battle, Shielded Minibot, Coghammer, Piloted Shredder and so on, not just because of Avenge
Secret paladin didn't get inviable only because of Avenge, but because of Muster For Battle, Minibot, Piloted Shredder and all the important early game it lost
And no lotheb. Yeah, standard hurt Secret Paladin a lot.
"Or of course, because you are 'a strong, independent deck builder, who needs no blizzard to tell them what to include', you make your deck deliberately weaker." - Skaduush1
I wouldn't be surprised if MC shows his face (so to speak) in Standard at some point. His battlecry is so card-efficient that it's a very tempting target to try and build a deck around, even still.
I totally agree that Avenge is key, though. Noble Sacrifice is now basically just a stall card, whereas before the combo with Avenge provided such an amazing tempo swing that it was a very effective weapon.
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Okay, Piloted Shredder was a commonly used neutral, but what about Shielded Minibot and Muster for Battle ? Basically they enabled secret Paladin to be that powerful since they kept the board clean for the arrival of Mysterious Challenger . And the decks which could handle Secret Paladin either did not care about board presence (face hunter/Shaman), had good removal while establishing an own board (Patron warrior) or had very good early game themselves (Dragon Priest). And while it is true that Avenge is Paladin's best secret and is dearly missing, I think that the lack of minibot and in particluar muster are more severe. MC will not be good enough without a proper early game since you can't have a couple of (bad) secrets, loads of removal for getting back the board(Equality/Pyro/Consecrate/Doomsayer) and enough threats (Tirion, replacement for Dr. Boom, Shredder, Loatheb) together in one deck.
I don't think that losing Avenge is the reason that SP isn't played in standard, but rather the loss of Shielded Minibot, Coghammer, Muster for Battle, Piloted Shredder, Loatheb and Dr. Boom.
Edit: Looks like some other folks said it before me.
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More like Secret Curve.dec
MC was just a finisher (a pretty powerful at it) however Paladin had possibly all the best drops for it's mana cost during the TGT-LOE meta. So if you curve out well you are just likely to place the final nail in the coffin with MC. If that wasn't enough there was still two more minions to seal the deal. That's why oftenly the deck is called "brainless" as that different from other aggressive decks, the only decision making is either to trade or go face, since your hand simply spill out the beans for you.
It's not really a one or the other. Without avenge MC wouldn't have been great anyway. MC's value is counteracted by all the crap secrets that pollute your hand before turn 6. And a fair portion of the time you don't even draw him by turn 6.
Sure, when you could play minbot -> muster -> shredder -> loetheb -> Dr. 6 you won. But just because you dominate with a god hand doesn't make a deck consistently good.