Eater of secret sucks stop bringing him up he is a really bad card that's ONLY good against mysterious challenger in the rest of the match ups he is terrible, and he doesn't auto win against secret paladin too overhyped card, it won't kill any secret deck
I'd like a card with a Emp. Thaurisan like effect but just for secrets. Battlecry: Reduce the cost of secrets in your hand and deck by 1. And with reasonable competitive stats (maybe a 3/3 3-drop) This would be fair and a good incentive to play secrets at the same time
Reducing the cost of 3+ secrets by 1 is even more broken than mad scientist was.
The issue with eater of secrets is it's only good against secret pally. Kezan's effect against most secret classes was much more powerful, stealing a secret is a way bigger swing than destroying one, and generally a 4/3 is better than a 2/4 against non secret classes. Eater of secrets will probably only really see play if secret paladin remains as dominant as it is now
I wouldnt say Tempo Mage is dead.
Flamewaker is the centerpiece of this deck and what made it competetive in the first place. That flamewaker is going nowhere.
Second, we have important units like Sorcerers Apprentice which is also staying.
Sure we miss Flamecanon, but its not a *must be in this deck* card. Shredder? Most tempo Mages dont even run it.
Secrets, yes thats going to take a hit, but then again Tempo Mage can gain advantage over multiple corners.
I dont know, i have the feeling that Tempo Mage doesent go away. It can adapt. It wont be as strong and rng dependent as before but then again, every class will have to carry the same issues.
To be a good tempo deck, you need some OP tempo plays other classes can't match. Now, mage has portal, mad scientist, flame cannon and flamewaker+spells.
3 of those will be gone, which WILL kill the deck if it is not given serious help from new cards.
Everyone who tried to play tempomage pre gvg and pre nax will know what I am talking about...
I'd like a card with a Emp. Thaurisan like effect but just for secrets. Battlecry: Reduce the cost of secrets in your hand and deck by 1. And with reasonable competitive stats (maybe a 3/3 3-drop) This would be fair and a good incentive to play secrets at the same time
Reducing the cost of 3+ secrets by 1 is even more broken than mad scientist was.
explain, I think it is not. Then Emp. Would be hugely overpowered, and it is not. For paladin it would not even be used I think. Because that would require actually having to draw the crappy secrets. Think about it for mage: is having 4 secrets cost 1 less (probably 3 still in your deck) worth more or less than putting one from your deck in play, which thins out your deck and gives immediate value
Emp reduces only hand cards, which is a HUGE difference. You want to make it reduce deck cards as well. When playing mad scientist, you get a 3 mana spell + draw for free (in mage, or maybe 2,5 mana if i value his 2/2 body as 1,5 mana). So if i play, let´s say, 6 secrets, you gain a 6 mana advantage, even 12 if i play two of your cards. Granted, most games won´t last long enough to use this to full capacity, but the advantage would be enormous.
Mad scientist was broken in mage, op in hunter, and okay in pala (which had another op 2 drop so nobody played MS).
I wouldnt say Tempo Mage is dead.
Flamewaker is the centerpiece of this deck and what made it competetive in the first place. That flamewaker is going nowhere.
Second, we have important units like Sorcerers Apprentice which is also staying.
Sure we miss Flamecanon, but its not a *must be in this deck* card. Shredder? Most tempo Mages dont even run it.
Secrets, yes thats going to take a hit, but then again Tempo Mage can gain advantage over multiple corners.
I dont know, i have the feeling that Tempo Mage doesent go away. It can adapt. It wont be as strong and rng dependent as before but then again, every class will have to carry the same issues.
To be a good tempo deck, you need some OP tempo plays other classes can't match. Now, mage has portal, mad scientist, flame cannon and flamewaker+spells.
3 of those will be gone, which WILL kill the deck if it is not given serious help from new cards.
Everyone who tried to play tempomage pre gvg and pre nax will know what I am talking about...
Portal is not essential(in fact, I hate the card and I can't wait not to have to use it when I play the deck), there are competitive versions of the deck that don't run any secrets and flamecannon is just a playable card that wasn't ever even a must play in the deck. So no.
I love how the mentality of people on this site is always along the lines "OH NOES, I CAN'T USE THE TEMPO STORM VERSION OF A DECK ANYMORE, NOW THE DECK IS OBVIOUSLY UNVIABLE". People who actually played the decks at a high level and know them inside out know which cards are actually needed to play it. It's true that tempo mage needs good tempo cards to work(duh). But mana wyrm, arcane missiles, waker, all the burst spells that also double up as extremely efficient removal and sourcerer's apprentice are still more than enough to fit that role.
My guess is that the deck will become a bit more aggressive, since it will be losing mid/gameplay stability(shreeder,boom,etc), but i'm not going to make stupid predictions with so many cards left to be announced.
Now as far as secrets in general are concerned, they will definitely still be viable, but I think they will change from being used mostly as a tempo mechanic and used more for the value of the secret itself. I'm rather sure Freeze mage won't stop using ice block, but they might drop barrier for more consistent/efficient life gain cards. Hunter will still use secrets, but face hunter specifically might drop them for more face damage cards. Paladin will still only use them with MC.
Eater of secret sucks stop bringing him up he is a really bad card that's ONLY good against mysterious challenger in the rest of the match ups he is terrible, and he doesn't auto win against secret paladin too overhyped card, it won't kill any secret deck
I disagree. Eater of Secrets is a very good card.
Mage plays Secret -> Eater of Secrets is now a 4 Mana 3/5 (good stats) Battlecry: Destroy a secret.
so with only 1 secret out he's value already. I guess you just don't WANT him to be played because you are a secret Paladin player
Hardly, what do I care about secret paladin? Midrange is more fun to play. I play secret paladin only as my "face hunter" list, to skip lower ranks till 7-5 I don't really like the deck and find it boring but it's a strong deck to climb ladder with. Will be happy if it's gone but this card isn't the one to "banish" secret paladin you do increase you wr against secret paladin but that's it.
It's like they said mad scientist wont be played cause of kezan and it isn't the case it has the same flaws as kezan - useless in most matches and not there when you need it.
Eater of secrets is weaker than kezan except if you are against secret paladin.. And secrets will be mainly in wild unless we see a "madder scientist"
I wouldnt say Tempo Mage is dead. Flamewaker is the centerpiece of this deck and what made it competetive in the first place. That flamewaker is going nowhere. Second, we have important units like Sorcerers Apprentice which is also staying. Sure we miss Flamecanon, but its not a *must be in this deck* card. Shredder? Most tempo Mages dont even run it. Secrets, yes thats going to take a hit, but then again Tempo Mage can gain advantage over multiple corners. I dont know, i have the feeling that Tempo Mage doesent go away. It can adapt. It wont be as strong and rng dependent as before but then again, every class will have to carry the same issues.
To be a good tempo deck, you need some OP tempo plays other classes can't match. Now, mage has portal, mad scientist, flame cannon and flamewaker+spells. 3 of those will be gone, which WILL kill the deck if it is not given serious help from new cards. Everyone who tried to play tempomage pre gvg and pre nax will know what I am talking about...
Portal is not essential(in fact, I hate the card and I can't wait not to have to use it when I play the deck), there are competitive versions of the deck that don't run any secrets and flamecannon is just a playable card that wasn't ever even a must play in the deck. So no.
I love how the mentality of people on this site is always along the lines "OH NOES, I CAN'T USE THE TEMPO STORM VERSION OF A DECK ANYMORE, NOW THE DECK IS OBVIOUSLY UNVIABLE". People who actually played the decks at a high level and know them inside out know which cards are actually needed to play it.
So you say flamewaker, mana wyrm, EC, frost bolt and fireball is strong enough of a core to carry an archetype? I strongly disagree!
Where are the OP plays that let you pull ahead vs other tempo decks like zoo, dragon priest or shaman which all lose way less than tempo mage?
Funny how people defend Eater of Secrets this card is absolutely HORRIBLE. Kezan Mystic was MUCH STRONGER for the same cost, the stealing part of Kezan is a huge tempo swing comparable to BGH.
Eater of Secrets is SUPER weak except maybe against one deck wich is secret paladin. But this is a very niche tech choice.
Funny how people defend Eater of Secrets this card is absolutely HORRIBLE. Kezan Mystic was MUCH STRONGER for the same cost, the stealing part of Kezan is a huge tempo swing comparable to BGH.
Eater of Secrets is SUPER weak except maybe against one deck wich is secret paladin. But this is a very niche tech choice.
I said it beofre and I'll say it again, Eater of Secrets will only be played in Wild as a secret paladin tech card. I don't think secret pally will be as strong in standard, Eater of Secrets won't be played there as much.
Funny how people defend Eater of Secrets this card is absolutely HORRIBLE. Kezan Mystic was MUCH STRONGER for the same cost, the stealing part of Kezan is a huge tempo swing comparable to BGH.
Eater of Secrets is SUPER weak except maybe against one deck wich is secret paladin. But this is a very niche tech choice.
This^ exactly why it sucks overhyped just like the tier 3 c'thun archtype.
Mages have the worst secrets atm imo. Yes their effects are awsome, but for the cost they are rarely worth it. I'm almost never happy when I draw one cause I'd much rather have my mad scientist to play them for me. Not only are they expensive, but they are really easy to play around. Everyone always play around them unless they are limited by their hand.
Mirror Entity - 3 mana to get a 1 or 2 mana minion if my opponent play arount it with no battlecry. And worst is that I think it's the only secret that can actually punish you for playing it. By that I mean a druid playing Darnasus Aspirant or a control deck playing Doomsayer. When I play against decks running these cards, I try to not play Mirror Entity, but I don't have control over my mad scientist and when I draw Mirror it ends up being a waiste of a draw.
Counterspelll - 3 mana to get rid of a coin or a cheap useless spell. (by useless I mean a spell that is useless for the situation since they are always played first then followed by a spell that actualy make a impact)
Ice Barrier - I often compare this card with Shield Block. I would much rather have 3less armor and draw a card for the same cost. Especyaly considering that mages can't do much with their armor unlike warriors. And worth is that their is not even any guarantee that you will get that armor since it activates only when you are attacked by a minion.
Ice Block - Probably the best secret atm. But not a tempo card.
Spellbender - Similar to noble sacrifice imo, but for 2 mana more and does'nt protect face.
Vaporize - A other card easy to play around. 3 mana to protect yourself and get rid of a 1mana minion.
Effigy - Probably harder to play around than Mirror Entity. But really rng based and it is a really slow card if you really want to get value out of it, you need atleast a 5mana minion imo for it to really have value.
When you consider that most secret are much harder to play around. For example, their is no way to play around Explosive Trap if you have a bunch of 2health minion on the board... Unless you never go face or you don't play these minions to begin with, but in that case, if you don't play you minion cause you fear flame trap is coming the card is getting value w/o even being on the board. For 1 and 2 mana, palladin and hunter secrets have so much more value and are much harder to play around imo. So unless you play control mage, they are just not worth it.
To be a good tempo deck, you need some OP tempo plays other classes can't match. Now, mage has portal, mad scientist, flame cannon and flamewaker+spells. 3 of those will be gone, which WILL kill the deck if it is not given serious help from new cards. Everyone who tried to play tempomage pre gvg and pre nax will know what I am talking about...
Yes Tempo Mage was pretty much non existent pre GvsG and Naxx. But then again it was pretty much non existent pre Flamewaker which came with BRM and still it took some time to transition into a competetive deck, since Mech Mage was considered the better deck and Flamewaker wasnt tested long enough.
I know there were versions of Tempo Mages before BRM, but those were considered low tier and rightfully so. Flamkewaker makes all the difference. Suddenly you could get board initiative while drawing a bunch of cards, which was a setback before. I think i dont need to explain that Flamewaker is important here.
Flamecanon as i said is nice, but not needed. Unstable Portal could give you a tempo swing but more often than not it was a medium outcome. The real work is done by other cards.
Yes Zoo is also a tempo deck and tempo mages still have problems to this day with them. Why should they be better? They are different. Tempo Mages have other advantages in comparison to zoo. You never can compare a deck 1:1.
Anyway to boil my point down, Tempo Mages as a now exlored archetpe will and can survive if one can adapt it properly.
Sure Flamewaker is good, but Portal was a win condition on its own a lot of times. And you're also losing your secrets with Mad Scientist gone, which were pivotal in keeping you ahead of the board, no matter what your opponent played. This might not be that great against Zoo, but it was very important against other midrange decks, this alone helped greatly in making the druid matchup very favorable.
Its not that tempo mage will die completely, its just the version that is played today. There can be other ways to play tempo mage, but I highly doubt it will be a tier 1 deck again.
I have a list planned out for tempo Mage in Standard, and that's (obviously) not including new cards that have yet to be revealed. The archetype won't die, it'll just change.
As for secrets in general, I think they'll still see play. Hunters still have Eaglehorn Bow, and Mages have Kirin Tor Mage to try and take advantage of secrets. Maybe a Mad Scientist-esque card will be released (hopefully not as overpowered), who knows? I'm hopeful.
To be a good tempo deck, you need some OP tempo plays other classes can't match. Now, mage has portal, mad scientist, flame cannon and flamewaker+spells. 3 of those will be gone, which WILL kill the deck if it is not given serious help from new cards. Everyone who tried to play tempomage pre gvg and pre nax will know what I am talking about...
Yes Tempo Mage was pretty much non existent pre GvsG and Naxx. But then again it was pretty much non existent pre Flamewaker which came with BRM and still it took some time to transition into a competetive deck, since Mech Mage was considered the better deck and Flamewaker wasnt tested long enough.
I know there were versions of Tempo Mages before BRM, but those were considered low tier and rightfully so. Flamkewaker makes all the difference. Suddenly you could get board initiative while drawing a bunch of cards, which was a setback before. I think i dont need to explain that Flamewaker is important here.
Flamecanon as i said is nice, but not needed. Unstable Portal could give you a tempo swing but more often than not it was a medium outcome. The real work is done by other cards.
Yes Zoo is also a tempo deck and tempo mages still have problems to this day with them. Why should they be better? They are different. Tempo Mages have other advantages in comparison to zoo. You never can compare a deck 1:1.
Anyway to boil my point down, Tempo Mages as a now exlored archetpe will and can survive if one can adapt it properly.
Sure Flamewaker is good, but Portal was a win condition on its own a lot of times. And you're also losing your secrets with Mad Scientist gone, which were pivotal in keeping you ahead of the board, no matter what your opponent played. This might not be that great against Zoo, but it was very important against other midrange decks, this alone helped greatly in making the druid matchup very favorable.
Its not that tempo mage will die completely, its just the version that is played today. There can be other ways to play tempo mage, but I highly doubt it will be a tier 1 deck again.
I concur, in factI think that tempo mage will no longer be a competitivedeck. It needs Blizzard give some new tools, but it seems that Blizzard forgotten mage class in WOG. Where are thecards?
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Eater of secret sucks stop bringing him up he is a really bad card that's ONLY good against mysterious challenger in the rest of the match ups he is terrible, and he doesn't auto win against secret paladin too overhyped card, it won't kill any secret deck
Tempo mage is perfectly fine without running any secrets.
The issue with eater of secrets is it's only good against secret pally. Kezan's effect against most secret classes was much more powerful, stealing a secret is a way bigger swing than destroying one, and generally a 4/3 is better than a 2/4 against non secret classes. Eater of secrets will probably only really see play if secret paladin remains as dominant as it is now
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Mad scientist was broken in mage, op in hunter, and okay in pala (which had another op 2 drop so nobody played MS).
Maybe in Mage with Kirin Tor Mage or something. And of course in Freeze Mage.
Sure! I had a secret mage before naxx
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I play Reno Mage atm and I don't even use scientists. I used to play one but he pulled out my duplicate to early.
Funny how people defend Eater of Secrets this card is absolutely HORRIBLE. Kezan Mystic was MUCH STRONGER for the same cost, the stealing part of Kezan is a huge tempo swing comparable to BGH.
Eater of Secrets is SUPER weak except maybe against one deck wich is secret paladin. But this is a very niche tech choice.
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Mages have the worst secrets atm imo. Yes their effects are awsome, but for the cost they are rarely worth it. I'm almost never happy when I draw one cause I'd much rather have my mad scientist to play them for me. Not only are they expensive, but they are really easy to play around. Everyone always play around them unless they are limited by their hand.
Mirror Entity - 3 mana to get a 1 or 2 mana minion if my opponent play arount it with no battlecry. And worst is that I think it's the only secret that can actually punish you for playing it. By that I mean a druid playing Darnasus Aspirant or a control deck playing Doomsayer. When I play against decks running these cards, I try to not play Mirror Entity, but I don't have control over my mad scientist and when I draw Mirror it ends up being a waiste of a draw.
Counterspelll - 3 mana to get rid of a coin or a cheap useless spell. (by useless I mean a spell that is useless for the situation since they are always played first then followed by a spell that actualy make a impact)
Ice Barrier - I often compare this card with Shield Block. I would much rather have 3less armor and draw a card for the same cost. Especyaly considering that mages can't do much with their armor unlike warriors. And worth is that their is not even any guarantee that you will get that armor since it activates only when you are attacked by a minion.
Ice Block - Probably the best secret atm. But not a tempo card.
Spellbender - Similar to noble sacrifice imo, but for 2 mana more and does'nt protect face.
Vaporize - A other card easy to play around. 3 mana to protect yourself and get rid of a 1mana minion.
Effigy - Probably harder to play around than Mirror Entity. But really rng based and it is a really slow card if you really want to get value out of it, you need atleast a 5mana minion imo for it to really have value.
When you consider that most secret are much harder to play around. For example, their is no way to play around Explosive Trap if you have a bunch of 2health minion on the board... Unless you never go face or you don't play these minions to begin with, but in that case, if you don't play you minion cause you fear flame trap is coming the card is getting value w/o even being on the board. For 1 and 2 mana, palladin and hunter secrets have so much more value and are much harder to play around imo. So unless you play control mage, they are just not worth it.
I have a list planned out for tempo Mage in Standard, and that's (obviously) not including new cards that have yet to be revealed. The archetype won't die, it'll just change.
As for secrets in general, I think they'll still see play. Hunters still have Eaglehorn Bow, and Mages have Kirin Tor Mage to try and take advantage of secrets. Maybe a Mad Scientist-esque card will be released (hopefully not as overpowered), who knows? I'm hopeful.
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