That said, I do think matchmaking is rigged to some degree. Blizzard is trying to smooth out the experience of winning and losing such that folks don't win too much or lose too much. The little spinner always lands on "worthy opponent" because that's more or less what the system is trying to ensure, you get someone that will offer you about the right amount of challenge for how well you are doing. Getting crushed, you get a little gimmie if they can find one for you. On a super hot streak? They will try to find you some hardcore challenge. Playing a crap deck (I often do) you may well get someone else dicking around. Play a total agro smasher deck and you won't get quite so many agro opponents because that would make things very lopsided. But you will get a few because sometimes it wants to stomp agro down a notch when it's running wild. That's my opinion, I can't back it up with facts.
I also think the same way. In addition; I think the game gives you a better RNG (whether eaiser opponents, better draws etc.) when you freshly make a deck and try it on the ladder, after some games that resulted with wins, the game just turns the tables around and you start losing with that deck (as someone else said, I think game tries to keep your winrate at 50% or something). I have experienced this many times. For example, 2 days ago I was trying to reach legend but my dh deck stopped winning. Then I made a face Hunter deck and won like 9 games in a row and got to diamond 1 with 3 stars, then I started to lose, and win some again and lost some again but this time so that I droppped back to diamond rank 3. During my huge losing streak, I faced only druids, which were the worst matchup for my deck. So yeah, I think the game somehow made me match against those druids to give me a challenge.
Discussion is fine, but the people claiming that any part of system is without a doubt rigged are just salty.
The game has been around for a while now with no clear evidence. Given how much of it the player base is able to track, it's a little odd that something hasn't been proven yet.
Still not even close to a remotely significant sample size. Sorry, but you are just frustrated and therefore biased. Unless you have data from literally hundreds of thousands of games from thousands of players, you are very ignorant to say "something is up".
OP on the other hand might have a point simply due to it being a general one:
1) We know Blizzard/Hearthstone Team (and other companies) has a history of manipulating odds of some things happening in the game, when they were meant to be completely random (heck, even pity timer when opening packs, even though it's a generally good concept, is an example of such manipulation).
2) Thanks to Zephrys we know that Blizzard has ways to affect not only objective metrics (like the amount of Legendaries opened in the packs), but also the gamestate itself. Would it be impossible for Blizzard to implement an algorithm that would affect the cards drawn from the deck or given by a random effects? Zephrys pretty much shows that only if they wanted to - they could.
Now the question is - do they?
P.S. Remember about tournaments - I know the thread was created in regards to the ranked play, but assuming Blizzard does use some gamestate-affecting algorithms, how does it make the biggest tournaments legit? For example if they wanted a certain person to win Blizzcon (a woman for political purposes or someone from China, because this is where $$$ fly to them or just someone they would consider a good ambassador for their Brand - good looking, charismatic etc.) - do you think it would be hard for them to simply "pick" a winner?
I am just dropping it here, not implying anything.
As to the question of: Do they?
1.We know that they can
2. We know that that many games that use microtransactions use all kinds of manipulations to inspire spending,
4. We know that corporations exist to make money once they reach the size of blizzard/activision.
5. We know if the data shows that using such tactics increases revenues, Activision has a responsibility to their shareholders to use such tactics.
I could go on but you get the point. It is quite reasonable to assume all aspects of the game are manipulated in such ways.
As to your question about would they fix a tournament? I dunno, a lot of pretty intelligent geeks play this and pay close attention. If something like that were to be proved it would invalidate hearthstone as an E sport and possibly set them up for fraud allegations.
As for the implied question of tournament RNG. Personally, I think the game has at least 3 game states.
1. Golden: you just crafted a new deck or bought packs and used the cards you opened, your mana and draws will line up perfectly, and if possible you will win. This is the system rewarding desired behavior. I think you can also trigger golden after coming back from a long layoff, the game is trying to draw you back in.
2. Fun: this is blizzards ideal gamestate. The game itself will try to match you with close games and will give players outs if they exist in their decks and the games will feature as many wild swings as possible. This has been a stated goal of the blizzard design team in interview, they think it is more entertaining and engaging to the player and viewer. I think this is the gamestate where tournaments are played. Everyone remembers the Pavelling book as the prime example of this, but now i think players are quite used to the catch up mechanisms in hearthstone. You have a game on lock down, the opponent keeps topdecking/discovering an out. This is not by chance. I think top players and streamers inherently understand this and take it into account in their decision making. One thing that held back my gameplay over the years was my years of experience of playing physical MTG where such mechanisms cannot exist and pressing an advantage with aggro was key. In hearthstone, if you press your advantage, you lose because blizzard does not think winning from an advantageous position is fun.
Hate: this is the game telling you to stop playing or go spend some money. This is game after game of horrible matchups, horrible mulligans and horrible RNG. Anyone who has played this game for multiple long sessions has felt this. If you come on the forums and bitch. People will tell you that it is tilt and that you should stop playing, take a break etc. And there is truth in that, you do play worse when titled. But for years I have avoided tilt by understanding what the game is doing, being perfectly satisfied with the rank 5 floor. If I play for a long stretch (listening to music, tabbed out watching NBA stream etc.) I still observe the same thing. So yeah, it is not all tilt. Tilt does not que you into your worst matchup and give you horrible draws while he gets the nuts. Something else is doing that.
This 3 game state system would be easily proven.
Golden State. Would obviously have to turned off on release day, can't have everyone winning on day 1 after all. Plus all those people winning, who play the best deck from the previous season with no new cards(later in the year of course) would throw this off.
Fun state. MTG is not hearthstone. MTG is great, but it's not the same as Hearthstone. If you played Hearthstone for years, never treating it as a different game, all those losses do not prove anything about the game being fun or not. Many tournaments are Streamed with plenty of games being blowouts. Top players and streamers almost certainly do take into account what cards the opponent would have access to that could turn around the game, that's why they are top players. They don't ignore years of experience.
Hate state. Just no. Multiple long sessions WITHOUT playing my worst matchups, WITHOUT having horrible draws and WITHOUT my opponent ever having the nuts would be far more suspicious IMO. Are you suggesting that if you don't stop or spend money, you will never queue into a favorable matchup again? Probably not, because that would be very easy to disprove. Then what though? Did the system give up on you and let true RNG takeover when you eventually get that good matchup again? Does it just do you the 1 favor to throw us all off the scent?
People have win streaks and losing streaks, it happens. Again, I think discussion is fine and the OP has a somewhat valid point that Blizzard could in fact rig it if they wanted to. People claiming it absolutely is rigged after getting unlucky though does nothing for the argument.
So your logic is that because they are able to make a card which calculates 3 great options for you from the basic/classic set, and rig packs to your favor, they also rig card draw and matchmaking?
That is does not make any sense, man.
Hsreplay has MILLIONS of games recorded. Tonnes of pack openings have been recorded as well. The material is there, but nobody has ever presented any solid statistical evidence of foul play.
The one exception is the pity-timer, which is beneficial to the player. The community was able to prove the existance of that, and it was confirmed later.
How do you even prove existence of some rng manipulation if the output is in the end, oh well, random?
I remember DisguisedToast's video on "Always Huffer". Yes, Huffer was significantly more often obtained from Animal Companion than two other options. Did it prove Animal Companion being rigged though? No, because when something is claimed to be random, such things like one option being favored despite them having the same odds, do happen. '
Haven't you ever seen a coin flipped 6 times and 5 times the end result being tails? Statistically it should be 3, right? Now let's assume you have data from 900k of coins flipped and 600k of them were tails. Sample size is there, you can no longer blame it on just not having enough flips. So there's something odd, it should be closer to 450k. Can you claim the flips were rigged? Of course you can't! Because it's just probability, you can't expect oddities not to happen!
Now let's come back to Hearthstone - Pavel's run for World Championship. The dude was heavily favored by RNG. Basically, even though we can't downplay him as a player, we have to agree luck had played huge role in his victory. And it wasn't just one instance! We are talking multiple instances of things going perfectly for him, despite low odds, throughout one event. You say "people would notice, the data is there". Well, people most certainly did notice. And so what? You can't say Pavel's win was rigged, because even though the odds of the things, which happened then, were small, they weren't zero.
"such things are rare, but they CAN happen, it's random" - using this statement you can pretty much disregard every discussion about anything rng-related being rigged.
Once again I am not claiming Blizzard influences their tourneys anyhow or that Pavel's win was rigged. Just wanted to show, why such discussion is reasonable and that people have right to have doubts.
It is all about sample sizes. As they go up, the outcome of correctly programmed RNG will slide towards the mathematically correct outcome. A 600k/450k split if the odds were supposed to be 50/50 is 100% proof of foul play, and would be plenty to sue a casino or poker site. Here is a sample of poker hands: https://www.tightpoker.com/poker_hands.html As you can see, the hands with the same odds have a variance of around +-1% over 115 million hands. Curiously, the mathematically worst hands are not the ones who lose more money, as the slightly better (but still terrible) hands are more likely to be played by oportunistic and bad plaers. AA is completely OP obviously, and should be nerfed asap.
In Hearthstone, the sample sizes required to prove any statistical foul play by Blizzard is there and fairly accessible, but none of the "the game is rigged" conspiracy theorists have ever seriously tried to go there. Either they don't know how to do it, they are lazy, or they know deep down they are most probably wrong.
So i never say that i have proven that it is not random, I have had experiences that led me to develop certain theories and i have found circumstantial evidence that supports that theory (some of it very strong).
What is always amusing to me are the angry and dismissive responses i get. How do you guys know that blizzard is not doing these things. I have clearly shown why they may.
At least y'all acknowledge the matchmaking is rigged now, so we are making some progress.
So i never say that i have proven that it is not random, I have had experiences that led me to develop certain theories and i have found circumstantial evidence that supports that theory (some of it very strong).
What is always amusing to me are the angry and dismissive responses i get. How do you guys know that blizzard is not doing these things. I have clearly shown why they may.
At least y'all acknowledge the matchmaking is rigged now, so we are making some progress.
But none of the "proofs" you have is anywhere near as strong as you claim it to be. So unless you have something you haven't written yet you have no place to make these claims.
I have not seen any proofs that the games are rigged or the matchmaking. Everyone will remember the 5 or 6 games you have a bad matchup I a row, but none remembers when you go 50/50 I good and bad matchups for an hour. And all this I highly meta depending.
I don't deny the possibility, but I really do think they make so too much money not doing it to risk rigging the games.
If you really want to prove anything you should come with clear and not empirical evidence.
So i never say that i have proven that it is not random, I have had experiences that led me to develop certain theories and i have found circumstantial evidence that supports that theory (some of it very strong).
What is always amusing to me are the angry and dismissive responses i get. How do you guys know that blizzard is not doing these things. I have clearly shown why they may.
At least y'all acknowledge the matchmaking is rigged now, so we are making some progress.
Wow. Is it so important for you to be in the right, or why do you point out that ALL people acknowledge that matchmaking is rigged? Matchmaking isn´t rigged in my experience and I play since beta.
But I played poker for years so I am fine with losing and having bad streaks, A good player will always make profit in the long run. Bro don´t play poker serious. you will be paranoid all the time.
The same logic applies to Hearthstone, good players always reach legend. Pros with new accounts and 0 money do it, f2p players do it, good active users in hearthpwn do it. If there is a thing preventing fair matchmaking, then you failed to show a real evidence yet.
So i never say that i have proven that it is not random, I have had experiences that led me to develop certain theories and i have found circumstantial evidence that supports that theory (some of it very strong).
What is always amusing to me are the angry and dismissive responses i get. How do you guys know that blizzard is not doing these things. I have clearly shown why they may.
At least y'all acknowledge the matchmaking is rigged now, so we are making some progress.
This topic has already been discussed to death countless times on the internet and no conclusion was ever reached. Most people here are tired of it, can't you understand that?
So i never say that i have proven that it is not random, I have had experiences that led me to develop certain theories and i have found circumstantial evidence that supports that theory (some of it very strong).
What is always amusing to me are the angry and dismissive responses i get. How do you guys know that blizzard is not doing these things. I have clearly shown why they may.
At least y'all acknowledge the matchmaking is rigged now, so we are making some progress.
Wow. Is it so important for you to be in the right, or why do you point out that ALL people acknowledge that matchmaking is rigged? Matchmaking isn´t rigged in my experience and I play since beta.
But I played poker for years so I am fine with losing and having bad streaks, A good player will always make profit in the long run. Bro don´t play poker serious. you will be paranoid all the time.
The same logic applies to Hearthstone, good players always reach legend. Pros with new accounts and 0 money do it, f2p players do it, good active users in hearthpwn do it. If there is a thing preventing fair matchmaking, then you failed to show a real evidence yet.
wow, it is important for you to make a new account to respond in this thread.
This topic has already been discussed to death countless times on the internet and no conclusion was ever reached. Most people here are tired of it, can't you understand that?
Oh I am sure it will be locked soon. But if I can help some people not fall for predatory manipulative tactics, I feel my efforts were not wasted.
This topic has already been discussed to death countless times on the internet and no conclusion was ever reached. Most people here are tired of it, can't you understand that?
Oh I am sure it will be locked soon. But if I can help some people not fall for predatory manipulative tactics, I feel my efforts were not wasted.
Chances of this being true are (sadly) ridiculous high, I'm not going to deny that. However, if something can't be proved, we must pretend it doesn't exist or never happened, until proven otherwise obviously. I know sometimes is hard, but that is the logical way of thinking for not becoming a paranoid person.
Play a total agro smasher deck and you won't get quite so many agro opponents because that would make things very lopsided.
There's gotta be something to this. I remember way back when secret paladin was the top braindead deck on the ladder. I faced off against like 5 secret paladins in a row with a 1-4 record. I got so frustrated that I created a hunter deck with double Flare and double Eater of Secrets. I queued up with that deck 10 times and didn't play against a single secret paladin. So I figured, eh, maybe there aren't as many of them as I thought. Switched back to my main ladder deck. Boom 3 secret paladins in a row again and lost 2 out of 3. So, all told, I played like 19 games that night. 10 with a secret paladin destroyer deck and 9 with my regular deck. In 8 of the 9 matches I played with my normal deck, I played against secret paladin. But when I switched to a deck with secret destroying tech, I played 0 secret paladins in 10 games. That just CAN'T be random.
Play a total agro smasher deck and you won't get quite so many agro opponents because that would make things very lopsided.
There's gotta be something to this. I remember way back when secret paladin was the top braindead deck on the ladder. I faced off against like 5 secret paladins in a row with a 1-4 record. I got so frustrated that I created a hunter deck with double Flare and double Eater of Secrets. I queued up with that deck 10 times and didn't play against a single secret paladin. So I figured, eh, maybe there aren't as many of them as I thought. Switched back to my main ladder deck. Boom 3 secret paladins in a row again and lost 2 out of 3. So, all told, I played like 19 games that night. 10 with a secret paladin destroyer deck and 9 with my regular deck. In 8 of the 9 matches I played with my normal deck, I played against secret paladin. But when I switched to a deck with secret destroying tech, I played 0 secret paladins in 10 games. That just CAN'T be random.
This topic has already been discussed to death countless times on the internet and no conclusion was ever reached. Most people here are tired of it, can't you understand that?
Oh I am sure it will be locked soon. But if I can help some people not fall for predatory manipulative tactics, I feel my efforts were not wasted.
Chances of this being true are (sadly) ridiculous high, I'm not going to deny that. However, if something can't be proved, we must pretend it doesn't exist or never happened, until proven otherwise obviously. I know sometimes is hard, but that is the logical way of thinking for not becoming a paranoid person.
Wow, just wow. 'Sadly if something is not proved we must pretend it does not exist......or else be labeled a paranoid person'. If that is your standby argument for this, you really need to consider rewording it. Because it is ridiculous.
Speculation is at the heart of inquiry, cases are proved on circumstantial evidence. To call your point of view on this logical is insane.
This topic has already been discussed to death countless times on the internet and no conclusion was ever reached. Most people here are tired of it, can't you understand that?
Oh I am sure it will be locked soon. But if I can help some people not fall for predatory manipulative tactics, I feel my efforts were not wasted.
Chances of this being true are (sadly) ridiculous high, I'm not going to deny that. However, if something can't be proved, we must pretend it doesn't exist or never happened, until proven otherwise obviously. I know sometimes is hard, but that is the logical way of thinking for not becoming a paranoid person.
Wow, just wow. 'Sadly if something is not proved we must pretend it does not exist......or else be labeled a paranoid person'. If that is your standby argument for this, you really need to consider rewording it. Because it is ridiculous.
Speculation is at the heart of inquiry, cases are proved on circumstantial evidence. To call your point of view on this logical is insane.
Seems like you have reading comprehension problems. First, I said "that is the logical way of thinking for not becoming a paranoid person", not being labeled as one. And second, you obviously missed the part where I said "until proven otherwise obviously", dude. Calm down and think before posting.
So i never say that i have proven that it is not random, I have had experiences that led me to develop certain theories and i have found circumstantial evidence that supports that theory (some of it very strong).
What is always amusing to me are the angry and dismissive responses i get. How do you guys know that blizzard is not doing these things. I have clearly shown why they may.
At least y'all acknowledge the matchmaking is rigged now, so we are making some progress.
The game is been played by some people for so long and many of them invest many hours of their lives.....
it must be something more than amusement, it has to feel productive.Git guders in half of this site threads prove it at any chance.
my truth is, since i first played HS (5 years ago) i have learned and made real progress in so many other things, such as music, languages, sports....etc
but playing HS is the only thing in my life that i am sure i can't be any better than i became after 3-4 months playing, plus some extra hours after every new expansion and new meta state, just to learn some decks and the cards they run...
if the game wasn't desinged to be like this it could not get this popularity, i personally dont have problem with that, but im triggerd by the tryhardess defenders of SKILL and Git Gut, and those people are trigered by anyone who doupts the importance of such time invested.
Play a total agro smasher deck and you won't get quite so many agro opponents because that would make things very lopsided.
There's gotta be something to this. I remember way back when secret paladin was the top braindead deck on the ladder. I faced off against like 5 secret paladins in a row with a 1-4 record. I got so frustrated that I created a hunter deck with double Flare and double Eater of Secrets. I queued up with that deck 10 times and didn't play against a single secret paladin. So I figured, eh, maybe there aren't as many of them as I thought. Switched back to my main ladder deck. Boom 3 secret paladins in a row again and lost 2 out of 3. So, all told, I played like 19 games that night. 10 with a secret paladin destroyer deck and 9 with my regular deck. In 8 of the 9 matches I played with my normal deck, I played against secret paladin. But when I switched to a deck with secret destroying tech, I played 0 secret paladins in 10 games. That just CAN'T be random.
That is because it is not.
You're never going to stop, don't you? Just because you feel it is not that way, doesn't mean we must accept that as a general consensus. That would be ridiculous and insane. ;)
Nothing is random in online games. Ask any experienced Poker player and they'll tel you that online poker is nothing like real life one. Way too many "nuts" situations in online poker that don't happen nowhere near as often in real life games.
Hearthstone doesn't have it's physical form so I understand people who play only online games saying that everything is as it should be. They simply don't know any better.
Guys, nothing is random in Hearthstone. Does accepting this diminishes your achievements in this game or makes you a "lesser" player? Absolutely not! I'm sure that if Hearthstone had a physical form you'd be just as good at it as you are in the online form.
So why does it even matter then if it's random or not? It doesn't. Only thing that matters is the truth.
Nothing is random in online games. Ask any experienced Poker player and they'll tel you that online poker is nothing like real life one. Way too many "nuts" situations in online poker that don't happen nowhere near as often in real life games.
Hearthstone doesn't have it's physical form so I understand people who play only online games saying that everything is as it should be. They simply don't know any better.
Guys, nothing is random in Hearthstone. Does accepting this diminishes your achievements in this game or makes you a "lesser" player? Absolutely not! I'm sure that if Hearthstone had a physical form you'd be just as good at it as you are in the online form.
So why does it even matter then if it's random or not? It doesn't. Only thing that matters is the truth.
You would have to show some numbers for poker to make statements like that. Online poker is also played much faster, and people play several tables at once, even normal players can manage 5+. For that reason, weird nuts and rivers are much more likely to happen to players and it is difficult to compare it to RL poker.
I also think the same way. In addition; I think the game gives you a better RNG (whether eaiser opponents, better draws etc.) when you freshly make a deck and try it on the ladder, after some games that resulted with wins, the game just turns the tables around and you start losing with that deck (as someone else said, I think game tries to keep your winrate at 50% or something). I have experienced this many times. For example, 2 days ago I was trying to reach legend but my dh deck stopped winning. Then I made a face Hunter deck and won like 9 games in a row and got to diamond 1 with 3 stars, then I started to lose, and win some again and lost some again but this time so that I droppped back to diamond rank 3. During my huge losing streak, I faced only druids, which were the worst matchup for my deck. So yeah, I think the game somehow made me match against those druids to give me a challenge.
Discussion is fine, but the people claiming that any part of system is without a doubt rigged are just salty.
The game has been around for a while now with no clear evidence. Given how much of it the player base is able to track, it's a little odd that something hasn't been proven yet.
This 3 game state system would be easily proven.
Golden State. Would obviously have to turned off on release day, can't have everyone winning on day 1 after all. Plus all those people winning, who play the best deck from the previous season with no new cards(later in the year of course) would throw this off.
Fun state. MTG is not hearthstone. MTG is great, but it's not the same as Hearthstone. If you played Hearthstone for years, never treating it as a different game, all those losses do not prove anything about the game being fun or not. Many tournaments are Streamed with plenty of games being blowouts. Top players and streamers almost certainly do take into account what cards the opponent would have access to that could turn around the game, that's why they are top players. They don't ignore years of experience.
Hate state. Just no. Multiple long sessions WITHOUT playing my worst matchups, WITHOUT having horrible draws and WITHOUT my opponent ever having the nuts would be far more suspicious IMO. Are you suggesting that if you don't stop or spend money, you will never queue into a favorable matchup again? Probably not, because that would be very easy to disprove. Then what though? Did the system give up on you and let true RNG takeover when you eventually get that good matchup again? Does it just do you the 1 favor to throw us all off the scent?
People have win streaks and losing streaks, it happens. Again, I think discussion is fine and the OP has a somewhat valid point that Blizzard could in fact rig it if they wanted to. People claiming it absolutely is rigged after getting unlucky though does nothing for the argument.
The game is rigged, be it for pack openings or gameplay.
It is all about sample sizes. As they go up, the outcome of correctly programmed RNG will slide towards the mathematically correct outcome. A 600k/450k split if the odds were supposed to be 50/50 is 100% proof of foul play, and would be plenty to sue a casino or poker site. Here is a sample of poker hands: https://www.tightpoker.com/poker_hands.html
As you can see, the hands with the same odds have a variance of around +-1% over 115 million hands. Curiously, the mathematically worst hands are not the ones who lose more money, as the slightly better (but still terrible) hands are more likely to be played by oportunistic and bad plaers. AA is completely OP obviously, and should be nerfed asap.
In Hearthstone, the sample sizes required to prove any statistical foul play by Blizzard is there and fairly accessible, but none of the "the game is rigged" conspiracy theorists have ever seriously tried to go there. Either they don't know how to do it, they are lazy, or they know deep down they are most probably wrong.
HSreplay can be used for games.
https://pitytracker.com/ can be used for packs.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Love this kind of threads. Sigh... -.-
It's only a matter of time until it will Devolve into something like this:
So i never say that i have proven that it is not random, I have had experiences that led me to develop certain theories and i have found circumstantial evidence that supports that theory (some of it very strong).
What is always amusing to me are the angry and dismissive responses i get. How do you guys know that blizzard is not doing these things. I have clearly shown why they may.
At least y'all acknowledge the matchmaking is rigged now, so we are making some progress.
But none of the "proofs" you have is anywhere near as strong as you claim it to be. So unless you have something you haven't written yet you have no place to make these claims.
I have not seen any proofs that the games are rigged or the matchmaking. Everyone will remember the 5 or 6 games you have a bad matchup I a row, but none remembers when you go 50/50 I good and bad matchups for an hour. And all this I highly meta depending.
I don't deny the possibility, but I really do think they make so too much money not doing it to risk rigging the games.
If you really want to prove anything you should come with clear and not empirical evidence.
Silver Hand Recruit
Wow. Is it so important for you to be in the right, or why do you point out that ALL people acknowledge that matchmaking is rigged? Matchmaking isn´t rigged in my experience and I play since beta.
But I played poker for years so I am fine with losing and having bad streaks, A good player will always make profit in the long run. Bro don´t play poker serious. you will be paranoid all the time.
The same logic applies to Hearthstone, good players always reach legend. Pros with new accounts and 0 money do it, f2p players do it, good active users in hearthpwn do it. If there is a thing preventing fair matchmaking, then you failed to show a real evidence yet.
This topic has already been discussed to death countless times on the internet and no conclusion was ever reached. Most people here are tired of it, can't you understand that?
wow, it is important for you to make a new account to respond in this thread.
Oh I am sure it will be locked soon. But if I can help some people not fall for predatory manipulative tactics, I feel my efforts were not wasted.
Chances of this being true are (sadly) ridiculous high, I'm not going to deny that. However, if something can't be proved, we must pretend it doesn't exist or never happened, until proven otherwise obviously. I know sometimes is hard, but that is the logical way of thinking for not becoming a paranoid person.
There's gotta be something to this. I remember way back when secret paladin was the top braindead deck on the ladder. I faced off against like 5 secret paladins in a row with a 1-4 record. I got so frustrated that I created a hunter deck with double Flare and double Eater of Secrets. I queued up with that deck 10 times and didn't play against a single secret paladin. So I figured, eh, maybe there aren't as many of them as I thought. Switched back to my main ladder deck. Boom 3 secret paladins in a row again and lost 2 out of 3. So, all told, I played like 19 games that night. 10 with a secret paladin destroyer deck and 9 with my regular deck. In 8 of the 9 matches I played with my normal deck, I played against secret paladin. But when I switched to a deck with secret destroying tech, I played 0 secret paladins in 10 games. That just CAN'T be random.
That is because it is not.
Wow, just wow. 'Sadly if something is not proved we must pretend it does not exist......or else be labeled a paranoid person'. If that is your standby argument for this, you really need to consider rewording it. Because it is ridiculous.
Speculation is at the heart of inquiry, cases are proved on circumstantial evidence. To call your point of view on this logical is insane.
Seems like you have reading comprehension problems. First, I said "that is the logical way of thinking for not becoming a paranoid person", not being labeled as one. And second, you obviously missed the part where I said "until proven otherwise obviously", dude. Calm down and think before posting.
The game is been played by some people for so long and many of them invest many hours of their lives.....
it must be something more than amusement, it has to feel productive.Git guders in half of this site threads prove it at any chance.
my truth is, since i first played HS (5 years ago) i have learned and made real progress in so many other things, such as music, languages, sports....etc
but playing HS is the only thing in my life that i am sure i can't be any better than i became after 3-4 months playing, plus some extra hours after every new expansion and new meta state, just to learn some decks and the cards they run...
if the game wasn't desinged to be like this it could not get this popularity, i personally dont have problem with that, but im triggerd by the tryhardess defenders of SKILL and Git Gut, and those people are trigered by anyone who doupts the importance of such time invested.
You're never going to stop, don't you? Just because you feel it is not that way, doesn't mean we must accept that as a general consensus. That would be ridiculous and insane. ;)
Nothing is random in online games. Ask any experienced Poker player and they'll tel you that online poker is nothing like real life one. Way too many "nuts" situations in online poker that don't happen nowhere near as often in real life games.
Hearthstone doesn't have it's physical form so I understand people who play only online games saying that everything is as it should be. They simply don't know any better.
Guys, nothing is random in Hearthstone. Does accepting this diminishes your achievements in this game or makes you a "lesser" player? Absolutely not! I'm sure that if Hearthstone had a physical form you'd be just as good at it as you are in the online form.
So why does it even matter then if it's random or not? It doesn't. Only thing that matters is the truth.
In death, I exact my revenge!
You would have to show some numbers for poker to make statements like that. Online poker is also played much faster, and people play several tables at once, even normal players can manage 5+. For that reason, weird nuts and rivers are much more likely to happen to players and it is difficult to compare it to RL poker.
Conformation bias is biased.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
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