This topic has already been discussed to death countless times on the internet and no conclusion was ever reached. Most people here are tired of it, can't you understand that?
Oh I am sure it will be locked soon. But if I can help some people not fall for predatory manipulative tactics, I feel my efforts were not wasted.
Chances of this being true are (sadly) ridiculous high, I'm not going to deny that. However, if something can't be proved, we must pretend it doesn't exist or never happened, until proven otherwise obviously. I know sometimes is hard, but that is the logical way of thinking for not becoming a paranoid person.
Wow, just wow. 'Sadly if something is not proved we must pretend it does not exist......or else be labeled a paranoid person'. If that is your standby argument for this, you really need to consider rewording it. Because it is ridiculous.
Speculation is at the heart of inquiry, cases are proved on circumstantial evidence. To call your point of view on this logical is insane.
Well, do the inquiry, then! The guys at Hsreplays would probably give some data to chew on.
Personal experiences with sample sizes of around 10 games are not proof of anything.
Also, if Blizzard is actually rigging packs and matchups in hidden ways to favor players who spend money, it is an enormous risk to take which would probably destroy the game if it is discovered. The rigging they actually do is right there in the open, no need to speculate:
-Removing entire sets from the most played format.
-Increase the number of class legendaries per expansion.
-Nerf cards of lower rarity making legendaries with synergies next to useless.
Nothing is random in online games. Ask any experienced Poker player and they'll tel you that online poker is nothing like real life one. Way too many "nuts" situations in online poker that don't happen nowhere near as often in real life games.
Hearthstone doesn't have it's physical form so I understand people who play only online games saying that everything is as it should be. They simply don't know any better.
Guys, nothing is random in Hearthstone. Does accepting this diminishes your achievements in this game or makes you a "lesser" player? Absolutely not! I'm sure that if Hearthstone had a physical form you'd be just as good at it as you are in the online form.
So why does it even matter then if it's random or not? It doesn't. Only thing that matters is the truth.
Actually, any experience poker player will tell you that it's because when you're playing online, you're playing 4-10 tables at a time, and online hands are delt about 5x faster. This leads to 20-50x the hands you'll see per hour. Also, while most pros spend 70 hours a week online, they would likely spend closer to 35 hours a week at live games. This again doubles outcomes. These statistics allow things that you would only see every 3 months, to happen every day, because you're literally seeing 40-100x the hands you would see per week at live games.
If you have 6 games open, and you go all-in on the flip, with a set of 6s, and all 6 opponents call with a gutshot straight draw. 1 of them statistically has to hit. That is also the one that will stand out in your mind. The other 5 that you "should have" won, are quickly forgotten, since that's how it "should have" been.
This is a well known fact. Major poker sites have been deconstructed so many times, and no "rigged" action has been found. As I mentioned before. Increasing action would never justify rigging the game, and risking losing player base. PokerStars alone makes something like $40,000 an hour off take and buy-in, and deals tens of thousands of hands per hour. This means someone should hit a Royal flush every 1.5 hours, while a casino might go years without seeing one.
Whoever these pro poker players you're taking about were probably just spouting salt, because they're on cold streak tilt, or they're losing players making up excuses.
Maybe I didn't express myself in the beginning clear enough but I didn't even mention the match maker. And yes I do think that one card shows the existence of power of calculating board clears or situationally lethals with help the of appropriate cards.
Other than Zephyrs, maybe I am so lucky that I quite often discover things like "destroy a frozen minion" out of hundreds of spells, while there are frozen minions on board, who knows..
Nobody can make me believe that HS devs would take this workload just to design one card. This was already a working mechanic, they just implemented it on a card.
I agree. This card works too perfectly. I was both surprised and shocked how it presents 1-3 perfect cards in every situation. It proves the AI behind Hearthstone is wayyyy too smart and can easily rig ongoing games, matchups, anything.
Nobody can make me believe that HS devs would take this workload just to design one card. This was already a working mechanic, they just implemented it on a card.
I agree. This card works too perfectly. I was both surprised and shocked how it presents 1-3 perfect cards in every situation. It proves the AI behind Hearthstone is wayyyy too smart and can easily rig ongoing games, matchups, anything.
Lol. Making a good algorithm for the best board clears, lethals, next turn curve-plays and AOE is actually very, very simple. Remember he only uses basic cards. After a few tries, you can pretty much guess all the 3 options you will be offered yourself. Afaik, he does't calculate drawing the perfect outs from your deck, which would be harder to compute right.
It's not only those. It can give you Cabal when there's a valuable target. And it's just one example. It's good at interpreting whether you need a hard removal or a board clear (one big minion + few small ones situation). Saying Zephrys does only basic things, gives you lethal, heal or a board clear is actually insulting to people who wrote its algorithm.
but in this forum most of SKILL defenders only project that
Good communication skills are rare. most of them are just kids miising some meanings of the words, FUN - SKILLs - DECEPTION
Sigh... Guys, how about doing a more detailed research on this topic and finding irrefutable evidence, instead of continuing talking nonsense about others just to appear superior to the rest? If you manage to prove the game is rigged/manipulated, the whole community (including me) will congratulate you and you will always be remember for such achievement (and maybe someone will build statues of you XD). Until then, if you continue with this attitude, you will only keep giving the impression of simply being mad men screaming at their computer screens, that have no idea how a logic-based society works.
Is the game rigged in some way? Probably, but you have to f..king prove it! ;)
Sigh... Guys, how about doing a more detailed research on this topic and finding irrefutable evidence, instead of continuing talking nonsense about others just to appear superior to the rest? If you manage to prove the game is rigged/manipulated, the whole community (including me) will congratulate you and you will always be remember for such achievement (and maybe someone will build statues of you XD). Until then, if you continue with this attitude, you will only keep giving the impression of simply being mad men screaming at their computer screens, that have no idea how a logic-based society works.
Is the game rigged in some way? Probably, but you have to f..king prove it! ;)
Cases can be proved in court with circumstantial evidence. Anecdotal evidence has been used in scientific inquiry for years to give guidance on what type of theories to test.
Your insistence that we have to 'f..king prove it' is an acknowledgement that our argument that the game is rigged is powerful. You and your kind have two tactics. You can deny, or you can try to discredit the messenger. That is why we continue to see repeated attempts at both from you and your ilk.
To be fair - the mods typically lock these sorts of threads because they mostly consist of folks shouting at each other and violating the posting guidelines for the site (which everyone agrees to abide by when they sign up . . .) This particular thread doesn't appear to be any sort of exception - unsurprisingly, some folks think the game is rigged, while others don't. Every once in a while, someone gets so worked up about the issue that they'll convince themselves they need to post an earnest, autobiographical wall-of-text explaining how they became true-believers. It shouldn't be necessary to explain why a casual gaming fan-site isn't an appropriate place for that kind of bullshit - or the vapid responses the bullshit elicits.
Well, do the inquiry, then! The guys at Hsreplays would probably give some data to chew on.
Personal experiences with sample sizes of around 10 games are not proof of anything.
Also, if Blizzard is actually rigging packs and matchups in hidden ways to favor players who spend money, it is an enormous risk to take which would probably destroy the game if it is discovered. The rigging they actually do is right there in the open, no need to speculate:
-Removing entire sets from the most played format.
-Increase the number of class legendaries per expansion.
-Nerf cards of lower rarity making legendaries with synergies next to useless.
-Low normal gold rewards for playing the game.
First off, not gonna spend my time digging through mountains of stats to try to prove it. Don't need to, i layed out a circumstantial case, you can accept it, refute it, or ignore it.
Second, I have never said that blizzard riggs packs for payed customers. I do not think they would do that because that would be very easy to prove and they would have a massive negative reaction. In a game that is already in significant trouble due to wide spread botting, poor balance, and a really nasty matchmaker. That could be a death blow.
As you said, their moves to increase profitability from packs are right there for all to see. And they have lost a huge portion of their player base as a result. This game will continue it's decline unless blizzard changes tactics, though I doubt they will do so. The power level of the new cards, free decks to returning players, the entire DH class all stink of desperation.
Sigh... Guys, how about doing a more detailed research on this topic and finding irrefutable evidence, instead of continuing talking nonsense about others just to appear superior to the rest? If you manage to prove the game is rigged/manipulated, the whole community (including me) will congratulate you and you will always be remember for such achievement (and maybe someone will build statues of you XD). Until then, if you continue with this attitude, you will only keep giving the impression of simply being mad men screaming at their computer screens, that have no idea how a logic-based society works.
Is the game rigged in some way? Probably, but you have to f..king prove it! ;)
Cases can be proved in court with circumstantial evidence. Anecdotal evidence has been used in scientific inquiry for years to give guidance on what type of theories to test.
Your insistence that we have to 'f..king prove it' is an acknowledgement that our argument that the game is rigged is powerful. You and your kind have two tactics. You can deny, or you can try to discredit the messenger. That is why we continue to see repeated attempts at both from you and your ilk.
Our society is far from being a 100% logic-based one, that's why sometimes it sucks so much. Those examples you are giving are not going to help you here, bro. The mere existence of Zephrys the Great is enough for me to believe there are high chances for this game being rigged in some way, I don't need your help for that. ;)
It's not only those. It can give you Cabal when there's a valuable target. And it's just one example. It's good at interpreting whether you need a hard removal or a board clear (one big minion + few small ones situation). Saying Zephrys does only basic things, gives you lethal, heal or a board clear is actually insulting to people who wrote its algorithm.
Having followed how AI can now teach itself to play Starcraft 2 at top level, it is still not very impressive. What would be actually impress me would be stuff like offering Tracking, Far Sight and Arcane Intellect if they mean lethal for every exotic combo deck. Also offering cards like Counterspell and Spellbender to mess with incoming plays by the opponent would be pretty neat.
I can't believe anyone considers Zephrys the Great to be evidence of anything. The game has plenty of scripted games in solo content and previous tavern brawls, it is obviously very easy to rig a game like heartstone from a programming point of view. Proving it if it is the case is very doable as well, but unfortunately the consipiracy theorists are not intellegent and knowledgeable enough to do the work.
The same problem has been there for years, come on guys, give me some solid numbers! I am tired of speculations and anecdotes from when you were tilted from failing to get a matchup you just put in a tech card against.
It's not only those. It can give you Cabal when there's a valuable target. And it's just one example. It's good at interpreting whether you need a hard removal or a board clear (one big minion + few small ones situation). Saying Zephrys does only basic things, gives you lethal, heal or a board clear is actually insulting to people who wrote its algorithm.
Having followed how AI can now teach itself to play Starcraft 2 at top level, it is still not very impressive. What would be actually impress me would be stuff like offering Tracking, Far Sight and Arcane Intellect if they mean lethal for every exotic combo deck. Also offering cards like Counterspell and Spellbender to mess with incoming plays by the opponent would be pretty neat.
I can't believe anyone considers Zephrys the Great to be evidence of anything. The game has plenty of scripted games in solo content and previous tavern brawls, it is obviously very easy to rig a game like heartstone from a programming point of view. Proving it if it is the case is very doable as well, but unfortunately the consipiracy theorists are not intellegent and knowledgeable enough to do the work.
The same problem has been there for years, come on guys, give me some solid numbers! I am tired of speculations and anecdotes from when you were tilted from failing to get a matchup you just publizzard pretty much CAN t in a tech card against.
I didn't say Zeph is some kind of godlike card, that literally knows the best card in the given scenarion better than the player themselves. Only that it does more than people give it credit for. I even saw people saying that they play Zeph only for lethals and crucial heals, when on a brink of death. Which is a waste, because it most certainly can do more.
Well, I am not choosing side in the discussion at all, I just mentioned that Blizz COULD affect the game mechanics, which are claimed to be completely random, if THEY WANTED TO. Not that they do.
Is the game "rigged"? Yes, in a way; that's what the MMR is for. Does Zephrys prove that Blizzard rigs your card draw? Not at all. However, it does prove that it can be done. Not much else to say without detailed knowledge regarding what goes into the programming of the RNG system.
Sigh... Guys, how about doing a more detailed research on this topic and finding irrefutable evidence, instead of continuing talking nonsense about others just to appear superior to the rest? If you manage to prove the game is rigged/manipulated, the whole community (including me) will congratulate you and you will always be remember for such achievement (and maybe someone will build statues of you XD). Until then, if you continue with this attitude, you will only keep giving the impression of simply being mad men screaming at their computer screens, that have no idea how a logic-based society works.
Is the game rigged in some way? Probably, but you have to f..king prove it! ;)
Cases can be proved in court with circumstantial evidence. Anecdotal evidence has been used in scientific inquiry for years to give guidance on what type of theories to test.
Your insistence that we have to 'f..king prove it' is an acknowledgement that our argument that the game is rigged is powerful. You and your kind have two tactics. You can deny, or you can try to discredit the messenger. That is why we continue to see repeated attempts at both from you and your ilk.
So I say I really think you murdered someone. I know you did because you could do it. Now you have to prove you haven't done it because I said you did.
In any semi civilized country you are innocent until proven guilty, and all you have offered is at the very best circumstantial evidence for you being unlucky a few times.
I don't know why you feel the need to discredit Blizzard, but you seem extremely salty at the moment, and honestly you seem like a person trying to win an argument by shouting the loudest.
A lesson everyone should learn but you obviously haven't "When you are trying to make a claim and miscredit someone, you should have the evidence to back it up, not the other way around"
So I say I really think you murdered someone. I know you did because you could do it. Now you have to prove you haven't done it because I said you did.
In any semi civilized country you are innocent until proven guilty, and all you have offered is at the very best circumstantial evidence for you being unlucky a few times.
I don't know why you feel the need to discredit Blizzard, but you seem extremely salty at the moment, and honestly you seem like a person trying to win an argument by shouting the loudest.
A lesson everyone should learn but you obviously haven't "When you are trying to make a claim and miscredit someone, you should have the evidence to back it up, not the other way around"
So, to address your post.
I posted a circumstancial case as to why it made sense that blizzard manipulates the game. You say if I call you a murderer you have to prove you are not. If you see those as equivalent, i cannot help you.
If you perceive my posts as angry, again I cannot help you. I'm not, though you seem to be.
As to your lesson. I did bring evidence, i also built foundation as to why the evidence should be considered by a thinking person. If you are unable to understand it, again I cannot help you.
in b4 lock....lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Well, do the inquiry, then! The guys at Hsreplays would probably give some data to chew on.
Personal experiences with sample sizes of around 10 games are not proof of anything.
Also, if Blizzard is actually rigging packs and matchups in hidden ways to favor players who spend money, it is an enormous risk to take which would probably destroy the game if it is discovered. The rigging they actually do is right there in the open, no need to speculate:
-Removing entire sets from the most played format.
-Increase the number of class legendaries per expansion.
-Nerf cards of lower rarity making legendaries with synergies next to useless.
-Low normal gold rewards for playing the game.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
There are f2p players out there with a full collection because its possible to go infinite in arena if you play well enough.
In a rigged game that should not be possible. So I believe this is pretty much the proof that the game is not rigged.
Actually, any experience poker player will tell you that it's because when you're playing online, you're playing 4-10 tables at a time, and online hands are delt about 5x faster. This leads to 20-50x the hands you'll see per hour. Also, while most pros spend 70 hours a week online, they would likely spend closer to 35 hours a week at live games. This again doubles outcomes. These statistics allow things that you would only see every 3 months, to happen every day, because you're literally seeing 40-100x the hands you would see per week at live games.
If you have 6 games open, and you go all-in on the flip, with a set of 6s, and all 6 opponents call with a gutshot straight draw. 1 of them statistically has to hit. That is also the one that will stand out in your mind. The other 5 that you "should have" won, are quickly forgotten, since that's how it "should have" been.
This is a well known fact. Major poker sites have been deconstructed so many times, and no "rigged" action has been found. As I mentioned before. Increasing action would never justify rigging the game, and risking losing player base. PokerStars alone makes something like $40,000 an hour off take and buy-in, and deals tens of thousands of hands per hour. This means someone should hit a Royal flush every 1.5 hours, while a casino might go years without seeing one.
Whoever these pro poker players you're taking about were probably just spouting salt, because they're on cold streak tilt, or they're losing players making up excuses.
Here, I found a link that can explain it all better: https://www.blackrain79.com/2018/11/online-poker-rigged.html?m=1
I used to wonder why so many intelligent, articulate people were so sure that blizzard would never, ever do anything shady.
Then I found out these existed.
https://www.mediabistro.com/climb-the-ladder/skills-expertise/what-does-a-community-manager-do-anyway/
Maybe I didn't express myself in the beginning clear enough but I didn't even mention the match maker. And yes I do think that one card shows the existence of power of calculating board clears or situationally lethals with help the of appropriate cards.
Other than Zephyrs, maybe I am so lucky that I quite often discover things like "destroy a frozen minion" out of hundreds of spells, while there are frozen minions on board, who knows..
but in this forum most of SKILL defenders only project that
Good communication skills are rare. most of them are just kids miising some meanings of the words, FUN - SKILLs - DECEPTION
<pre id="tw-target-text" class="tw-data-text tw-text-large tw-ta" data-placeholder="Μετάφραση"> </pre>I agree. This card works too perfectly. I was both surprised and shocked how it presents 1-3 perfect cards in every situation. It proves the AI behind Hearthstone is wayyyy too smart and can easily rig ongoing games, matchups, anything.
Lol. Making a good algorithm for the best board clears, lethals, next turn curve-plays and AOE is actually very, very simple. Remember he only uses basic cards. After a few tries, you can pretty much guess all the 3 options you will be offered yourself. Afaik, he does't calculate drawing the perfect outs from your deck, which would be harder to compute right.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
It's not only those. It can give you Cabal when there's a valuable target. And it's just one example. It's good at interpreting whether you need a hard removal or a board clear (one big minion + few small ones situation). Saying Zephrys does only basic things, gives you lethal, heal or a board clear is actually insulting to people who wrote its algorithm.
Sigh... Guys, how about doing a more detailed research on this topic and finding irrefutable evidence, instead of continuing talking nonsense about others just to appear superior to the rest? If you manage to prove the game is rigged/manipulated, the whole community (including me) will congratulate you and you will always be remember for such achievement (and maybe someone will build statues of you XD). Until then, if you continue with this attitude, you will only keep giving the impression of simply being mad men screaming at their computer screens, that have no idea how a logic-based society works.
Is the game rigged in some way? Probably, but you have to f..king prove it! ;)
I just think luck factor depends on mana cost and curve of your deck.they tend to favorise smorc big time
Cases can be proved in court with circumstantial evidence. Anecdotal evidence has been used in scientific inquiry for years to give guidance on what type of theories to test.
Your insistence that we have to 'f..king prove it' is an acknowledgement that our argument that the game is rigged is powerful. You and your kind have two tactics. You can deny, or you can try to discredit the messenger. That is why we continue to see repeated attempts at both from you and your ilk.
To be fair - the mods typically lock these sorts of threads because they mostly consist of folks shouting at each other and violating the posting guidelines for the site (which everyone agrees to abide by when they sign up . . .) This particular thread doesn't appear to be any sort of exception - unsurprisingly, some folks think the game is rigged, while others don't. Every once in a while, someone gets so worked up about the issue that they'll convince themselves they need to post an earnest, autobiographical wall-of-text explaining how they became true-believers. It shouldn't be necessary to explain why a casual gaming fan-site isn't an appropriate place for that kind of bullshit - or the vapid responses the bullshit elicits.
First off, not gonna spend my time digging through mountains of stats to try to prove it. Don't need to, i layed out a circumstantial case, you can accept it, refute it, or ignore it.
Second, I have never said that blizzard riggs packs for payed customers. I do not think they would do that because that would be very easy to prove and they would have a massive negative reaction. In a game that is already in significant trouble due to wide spread botting, poor balance, and a really nasty matchmaker. That could be a death blow.
As you said, their moves to increase profitability from packs are right there for all to see. And they have lost a huge portion of their player base as a result. This game will continue it's decline unless blizzard changes tactics, though I doubt they will do so. The power level of the new cards, free decks to returning players, the entire DH class all stink of desperation.
Our society is far from being a 100% logic-based one, that's why sometimes it sucks so much. Those examples you are giving are not going to help you here, bro. The mere existence of Zephrys the Great is enough for me to believe there are high chances for this game being rigged in some way, I don't need your help for that. ;)
Having followed how AI can now teach itself to play Starcraft 2 at top level, it is still not very impressive. What would be actually impress me would be stuff like offering Tracking, Far Sight and Arcane Intellect if they mean lethal for every exotic combo deck. Also offering cards like Counterspell and Spellbender to mess with incoming plays by the opponent would be pretty neat.
I can't believe anyone considers Zephrys the Great to be evidence of anything. The game has plenty of scripted games in solo content and previous tavern brawls, it is obviously very easy to rig a game like heartstone from a programming point of view. Proving it if it is the case is very doable as well, but unfortunately the consipiracy theorists are not intellegent and knowledgeable enough to do the work.
The same problem has been there for years, come on guys, give me some solid numbers! I am tired of speculations and anecdotes from when you were tilted from failing to get a matchup you just put in a tech card against.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I didn't say Zeph is some kind of godlike card, that literally knows the best card in the given scenarion better than the player themselves. Only that it does more than people give it credit for. I even saw people saying that they play Zeph only for lethals and crucial heals, when on a brink of death. Which is a waste, because it most certainly can do more.
Well, I am not choosing side in the discussion at all, I just mentioned that Blizz COULD affect the game mechanics, which are claimed to be completely random, if THEY WANTED TO. Not that they do.
Is the game "rigged"? Yes, in a way; that's what the MMR is for. Does Zephrys prove that Blizzard rigs your card draw? Not at all. However, it does prove that it can be done. Not much else to say without detailed knowledge regarding what goes into the programming of the RNG system.
So I say I really think you murdered someone. I know you did because you could do it. Now you have to prove you haven't done it because I said you did.
In any semi civilized country you are innocent until proven guilty, and all you have offered is at the very best circumstantial evidence for you being unlucky a few times.
I don't know why you feel the need to discredit Blizzard, but you seem extremely salty at the moment, and honestly you seem like a person trying to win an argument by shouting the loudest.
A lesson everyone should learn but you obviously haven't "When you are trying to make a claim and miscredit someone, you should have the evidence to back it up, not the other way around"
Silver Hand Recruit
So, to address your post.
I posted a circumstancial case as to why it made sense that blizzard manipulates the game. You say if I call you a murderer you have to prove you are not. If you see those as equivalent, i cannot help you.
If you perceive my posts as angry, again I cannot help you. I'm not, though you seem to be.
As to your lesson. I did bring evidence, i also built foundation as to why the evidence should be considered by a thinking person. If you are unable to understand it, again I cannot help you.
in b4 lock....lol