Hearthpwn

Diamond 10

Was playing a different list for quite a while and doing fine, but your list has been doing much better for me.  I replaced 1 condemn with a second Shard of the Naaru.

Quote from user-18143276 >>

Its so blatantly rigged it blows my mind. Playing 2 games as the panda hero. It consistently offers the worst hero powers in the game such as Edvins, Cariel, Kitty and Nozdormu. No way that shit is random. Its scripted. 

Extremely rare to get Reno for example on that hero. 

 

 If it's scripted you should know what you will get and can plan accordingly.  If you know what you are getting and can't take advantage, you need to improve.

If it's not scripted and you are getting poor results with a solid tier 2 hero, you need to improve.

People: They rig it to keep everyone at 50% and you can't change it!

Also people: When you pay to have access to more heroes you win more!

...

I can understand people get frustrated when they have poor RNG and jump to conclusions.  The whole "They force a 50% winrate and even admitted it!" argument just baffles me though.  One guy said earlier 

"Where they literally said that they basically rig it to make it so you're either matched up with people with a higher skill or lower skill to keep the win rate at around 50%"

This is literally how any MMR system works.  If you are at 6k rating and the people you get matched against are less skilled than you, you are more likely to win and gain MMR.  If you get to 8k rating and the people you get matched against are higher skilled than you, you are more likely to lose...until you improve as a player.  You aren't being forced to stay at 8k or lower.  If you gave your account to a 12k player, they would absolutely climb past 8k, even though you couldn't.

My anxiety doesn't go away from winning though.  Reaching a ranked floor helps slightly, but really the only solution for me is to play something I find fun.  If I succeed, great!  If not, oh well.

You claim to know when a game is lost due to reasons beyond your control, so that is when you should take a break.  Even if for just a few minutes.  That being said, I find it hard to believe that every one of those losses has nothing to teach you.

I like to watch streamers and these people play more games in a month then I might in a year, so they clearly know a lot more about the game.  Despite their vastly superior skill and experience, they still question their own decisions and take time to consider the options.  Even something as simple as which cards to mulligan in a matchup they have played hundreds of times by now.  Why?  Because they are likely taking a lot more into consideration than I would think to.

My point is that there is ALWAYS room for improvement.  Yes, some games are 100% beyond your control and will be lost despite making zero mistakes.  That doesn't mean there is nothing to take away from these losses.

I doubt there are any small adjustments that would allow you consistently beat priest.  My best suggestion is to be as aggressive as possible.  The less time they have to freely discover potential answers the better.  That, plus the amount of burn you have access to might be enough for a win occasionally.

Try to also keep in mind what it will take to win the game.  In a really bad matchup, since you aren't likely to win anyway, take more chances.

If Druid could do this turn 1 nearly every game and/or it was indeed an automatic loss at that point for nearly every class, it would be unbalanced.  They can't though and the cards do exist to fight back against this kind of opener (whether or not those cards are popular isn't relevant, revolve for example).

I'm sure there are some strong tempo Elemental Shaman draws that are very hard to beat for some decks out there too.

Pretty well for me.  I was never fond of the second Survival of the Fittest, so this works as an additional corrupt activation and a board refill when it gets wiped.  Getting back a beast, elemental and a dragon is optimal, but hardly necessary.  Against most controls decks its all about how much pressure you can apply and being able to present a board of multiple big threats turn after turn is great.

These nerfs are barely out, you can't claim they didn't work yet.  I didn't read anything saying that Deck of Lunacy shouldn't be competitive, just that it was too strong at turn 1 & 2.  The deck will likely lose more often against it's bad matchups and will do a little worse in the favored matches.  I personally don't think Deck of Lunacy is good for the game, but just because people are still playing the card doesn't mean the nerf was a failure.

Sword of the Fallen is still a very strong card.  It will likely continue to be the best card in any paladin deck that runs secrets.  I would personally like to see the meta develop for a couple more days before calling the nerf a failure, though I'm inclined to agree Paladin needed more.  The goal of any nerf is simply to lower the cards/decks win rate, hopefully we see it.

As of typing this, according to HSReplay, Hunter has overtaken Paladin and Mage has dropped to 7th best class overall with No Minion Mage just above 50%.  Just give it a little bit of time for things to play out.

Quote from Pythonproduct >>

Quote from Kurgo >>

I frankly don't give a toss if my otk deck is unfun for you or anyone else, to put it bluntly, I sure as hell have a blast playing it.

If you're in wild, tech in a dirty rat (like all reno decks do), a loatheb in your control deck or play any tier 1-2 aggro deck which has 60+ wr% against all combo decks and realise that if blizzard had any actual interest in making otk decks a thing of the past, mozaki and il'gynoth wouldn't exist.

Because, honestly, your solution is nuking otk decks out of the game which means that the only things left in wild (standard has no viable otk deck other than lifesteal dh, all-powerful tier 4 meme that it is) will be hyper aggro and control, with nothing else left. I also would like to hear what would you do about reno priest (which technically is an otk since they kill you from 30+hp in a single turn unless, guess what, you rat their spawn of shadows/raza out beforehand) or something like shudderwock (which, by all intents and purposes, is an otk in the sense that after you play the first one, the opponent is dead no matter what).

Made me lol when reading mecha'thun tho, I'll give you that, haven't seen that played in almost a year, the poor lad.

 I've said this already in this thread, but i'm not against combo decks, just otk combo decks. Decks like the og freeze mage are fine and should get support from blizz. 

I don't think removing otk would just lead to aggro and control, there would also be midrange, and hopefully combo too. Plus there can be a lot of variation within those catagories.

Reno priest is majorly overtuned imo. I think unnerfing Raza the Chained was a big mistake. They should re-nerf it to make the hero power cost 1. I think reno style decks will continue to be a problem in the future as more cards that serve the same purpose will lessen the downside of only having 1 ofs. So other highlander cards may need to get adjusted as well

Shudderwock is also a problem card, i forgot about him in the original post. I'd make him repeat the 3 highest cost battlecries.

It doesn't matter that Mecha'thun isn't viable, otk decks shouldn't exist

 OTK decks existing isn't a problem.  The affect they have on the game and meta isn't bad for the game either.  I'll agree that some have been a problem over Hearthstone's history ( Shudderwock ), but just like other overpowered cards/decks they were nerfed.

I also agree that there is a lot of variation in deck categories.  Just because all 'Control decks' are likely to have AOE board clears and card draw doesn't mean they are anything like one another.  All decks have their own strengths and weaknesses.  You could nerf all OTK decks and w/e combo decks remained would likely still have matchups that they are overwhelmingly favored in.

Cards like like Dirty Rat and other tech choices are more than enough to fight back too.  They aren't 100% effective and they shouldn't be either.  They also have the draw back of making your deck weaker against most other decks.  If you want to do better against a certain combo deck, but are unwilling to switch to a deck with a much better matchup, then you should have to make sacrifices.  Same goes for every deck type.  The tools exist to improve certain matchups, but they come at a cost.

These threads are the best.  Different people post different theories of how the game is rigged.  They could all say match making is rigged, but they don't all agree on exactly how it's rigged.  Meanwhile, each theory is quite easily disproved.  Some examples...

1-I played against deck 'A' 5 games in a row, switched decks to counter deck 'A' and didn't play it again.

          One time I played against odd pally 4 games in a row.  I switched decks for a better matchup and 2 of the next 4 was not only against odd pally, but the other 2 were also aggro decks.  Having watched plenty of streamers ranking up over the years as well, I have witnessed them switch decks countless times and be rewarded with good matchups.

2-After crafting a new deck or playing after a long break, you will be queued into good matchups.

         I honestly don't know how people can believe this is something beyond confirmation bias.  This would have been easily confirmed years ago.

3-The game is rigged to keep everyone at 50% win rate.

        The methods they use to do this don't seem to be agreed upon.  Deck archtypes?  Individual card choices?  Deck manipulation?  All of the above?  The time span involved isn't usually mentioned either.  Some will claim that their 5 game win streak is always met with a 5 game losing streak, but literally anybody who hasn't experienced the same thing is a counter argument to that.  Just when does RIGGED GAMEPLAY take effect to keep me at 50% anyway?  Hours or days?  Seasons or expansions?  I suppose anything close to 50% over any time interval would support their argument, but I've watched many a streamer quickly rank up over the years at the start of a month/expansion with records over 75% win rate.  I guess this form of rigged gameplay is only active at certain times???

Quote from 1xbenx1 >>

IIRC isn't it a known bug that Fist will summon Reliquary an unnaturally high amount of the time on a 1-mana spell?

 It is well know that Fist will spawn Reliquary on a 1 mana spell.  I have faith that blizzard will reduce it's summon rate by at least 50% when the next expansion is released.  Until then I wouldn't expect this to change.

Quote from wg15 >>

Quote from SlydE >>

Quote from SirJohn13 >>

Government priorities w.r.t to regulation:

a) Regulate financial institutions whose irresponsible actions once led to a global financial crisis with far-reaching consequences
b) Regulate gaming companies whose actions may have led to my opponent discovering DQ Alextrasza off a Draconic Lackey and causing me to lose a game I should have won

Sounds about right...

This made me lol!

Card packs and loot boxes which be bought  for real money are actually regulated afaik. They have to inform well about the rng of what you get.

I can't believe how butthurt and paranoid some players are about in-game RNG. Our brains are not well put together to understand true randomness, but we are great at assuming patterns where there are none or the dataset is too small. 

Reposting this great video about RNG by numberphile:

https://youtu.be/tP-Ipsat90c

 Yeh, but randomness in programmed stuff is NOT random. And you guys don't understand it. The randomness in programmed stuff is man made. Best example are gaming machines. They are completely regulated yet the chances are there that everyone is able to win and who wins is completely random. Nothing to do with randomness. You know, if one single bit is not completely functional on a server machine everything is changed completely already.

Yet, in germany for example, they have to give out 80% of the income yet they can only give prices of maximum 1000€ per hour.

So in the end it's completely random by not being random at all. Sounds wierd, right?

Who says Blizz$Activision is not using such an algorithm? They make no secret of their main goal to get a 50% winrate in literally every game mode. And to repeat again and again and again and again...THEY OWN A PATENT FOR THIS.

Is it through matchmaking like they use in CoD (where they match players with less ingame buys with players that are better and have shiny skins etc!) or by controlling random effects.

If we don't get all the numbers from all games we can't say anything in particular. But alone daily Highlights on Youtube have multiple low chance clips each and every day that are against all odds to happen that often. Yes, it's highlights, but again, 0,000003% chances every here and there....no way in a true randomness.
And I repeat myself, my games alone have so much game deciding RNG  stuff with such a low percentage of possibility happening I simply won't stop believing that it is controlled RNG. This combined with my knowledge from being a game dev 5 years ago until I changed my job I won't trust Blizzard anymore. It is so easy to keep something random with a slight influence of the dev that keeps it "random" yet controlled.

Still i won't exclude that the coding is just very bad.

 I certainly wouldn't rule out bad coding either.  The only aspect of hearthstone that I have found suspicious over the years is from repeated effects.  Stuff like knife thrower triggering 7 times from an unleash and all hitting the same target.  Or more recently, a single puzzle box casting the same spell multiple times(3 bogbeam casts in a row!).  I don't assume rigged game play as a result, at worst I suspect a possible bug.

I'm sure I've said it in one of these threads already, but people really need to take a step back and think before assuming they were hit with a RNG outcome that shouldn't be possible.  Yeah you lost and the string of RNG effects that led to it might be really low, but there were probably a hundred different combination of possible RNG outcomes that would have resulted in a loss as well.

I also love how most of the bad beats people talk about have them easily crushing their opponents(all skill of course), only then to be undone by the most absurd RNG the game has ever seen.  Is the entire game rigged then?  Does the rigging algorithm only kick in when the already rigged MM failed to produce the desired outcome?  If it's all rigged, why would the suspicious RNG ever be needed in the first place when their advanced algorithms could simply control the draws for perfect 50% winrate manipulation.

There is no consensus on what's rigged and what isn't.  Someone earlier said it's clearly rigged cause he nearly always faces his worst matchup first game of the day and also the game after he hits the concede button.  Is this really what he's using to base his accusation on???  WOW, pretty strong evidence I'll admit.  I'm probably the anomaly here having not experienced this myself, but I'm sure EVERYONE else does.

If the game is rigged, I would obviously want to know and I'm sure Blizzard has the ability to do so.  All I ever see put in these threads are complaints about losses though.  Always bad matchups, bad draws, bad rng caused me to lose.  New flash people, you aren't perfect and you certainly aren't playing perfect either.  If you think Blizzard is deliberately keeping you at your current rank, that's probably as far as your current skill will take you.

Quote from Hooghout >>

Quote from TallStranger >>

Quote from Hooghout >>

 Funny respons. Indeed no Department of Game Investigation.....yet. Look at Google, MS en Apple. Big tech are scrutinized on different levels by state actors and international regulations. The game industry is very big. In the EU pricing loot boxes is forbidden. Need to get accustomed to the idea to scrutinize on the level of MMR and RNG. 

You seen to be a firm believer that Blizzard is not rigging. Funny. you don't need any proof to believe in holy Blizzard. It's called religious.Maybe Blizzard is a god for the multitudes.

 You want me to prove Blizzard is NOT rigging the system? You know that it's not possible to prove a negative, right? I don't consider Blizzard "holy." I consider it a sensible, risk-adverse corporation that understands there's no meaningful upside to manipulating the MMR or RNG, and a huge downside.

As for investigations, those are typically launched based on, wait for it, EVIDENCE. You know, the stuff you can't be bothered to collect? "Everybody knows" is not evidence. Hideous streaks of bad luck are not evidence. Deranged ideas of evil corporations trying to scam $20 off you is not evidence. Actual hard numbers are. Do you draw card X more often against one deck than another? Does your opponent draw his card more often than percentages say he should? That's real evidence. And you've got none.

So you consider them 'a sensible, risk adeverse corporation.'  Reason why you not thinking they are rigging the game.I like your gullibility and lack of critical thinking - quod non.  Remember Enron 2001?  A showcase of financial frauds:https://www.cbsnews.com/media/top-14-financial-frauds-of-all-time/  

Frauds only possible because nobody ask serious questions....till it was too late. 

 It sounds like the lack of evidence is the reason he believes Blizzard isn't rigging.  Asking questions is perfectly fine btw, but when the only 'evidence' being presented comes from people complaining they lost to bad rng...why on earth should we suddenly jump to the conclusion that Blizzard is rigging the system?

I say BAD rng, but honestly what most people here present doesn't even qualify.  Drawing the 'perfect' card from their deck?  Discovering the card they needed to win?  Playing a bad matchup multiple times in a row?  Really?  These are apparently the kind of things that only a rigged system could deliver.

Quote from Marega >>

Maybe from diamond rank 5 and above. Until that rank i played like 30 or so matches with 76% winrate until i reached rank 3 2 stars and hit a wall. Back to rank 5 no stars and already switched decks to counter the full aggro meta but they went poof all of sudden. Alreay tried 3 deck that would have easily gotten me  at least a 60% winrate but the system must be forcing me to go down the overall winrate. So until i reached the system threshold of around 50 im doomed to remain at 42% just to compensate my previous 76%.

I have no doubts of this

 Full aggro meta.  Even if every game you played up to rank 3 diamond was FULL AGGRO, do you just assume your 30 opponents represent the entire remaining player base?  The amount of people queuing and playing at any given time might just be a bit higher.  And why suddenly at rank 3:2 stars did the game decide your win rate was too high?  Were all your wins up to rank 3 planned by AI as well to offset other players high win rates?  Are you actually suggesting that nobody can reach legend with a comparable win rate to 76%?  How exactly is the system "forcing you down"?  Matchup, mulligan, draws, rng effects, internet connection, bad weather, food poisoning????  Can you be more specific?