let me preface this by saying you DO NOT KNOW what you're talking about. You see, there's this thing called meta and it has a domino-like effect on the decks. see, if you reduce the power of deck A, deck B, that used to be countered by A, is now more viable because A is not that strong or opressive anymore. Now here's the thing: B counters C, the deck left untouched on the nerf round. As a result, C cannot be the OP garbage deck that dominates the meta and makes you whine on the internet because of the nerf to deck A =)
But if C dominates the meta, you dont have to care about B to play A, so it does not have sense at all.
see the domino effect, as C has its own bad matchups. do i really have to explain this ?
They've been doing this as long as I remember since StarCraft. Instead of tweaking a couple numbers here and there, they will just gut X balance change completely. Not much else to it other than their balance team is bad at common sense/basic math.
A nerf to Possessed Lackey is the solution. It should have the sames stats, but the text of Void Caller. Cheating out an early Void Lord or a no-discard Doomguard is powerful enough (especially with Dark Pact). Drawing a card on top of that is very, very powerful. Drawing the specific card you need is broken. Nerfing Possessed Lackey would turn it more into a true combo deck (probably with an emphasis on multiple Doomguards) instead of a super consistent, flexible deck that can switch between defense and offense rather easily.
they have a nerf to lackey......its called silence...........and many options for that.
First the reason no card in warlock did not get nerf, no card is OP by itself..........most are balance. Lackey cheats out a minion.....but it takes you still having a demon in deck to pull it....if it is in your hand...lackey just becomes a 2/2 for 5 mana........which is a nerf in it self and bad. Same thing with the weapon, if you have no demons in hand........useless.
Cube by itself is not that op.....that is why not every other class is playing it. Warlock dk is good, but most dks are good, with the exception of warriors, but I seen decks made with it too. As someone else tried to explain, just because warlock was one of 3 top decks, which didnt get nerf, doesn't mean it will be top now, or even stay in top 3. Because other decks that got nerfed held back other decks, that might of been an counter to the warlock deck, but was not used because of the decks that got nerfed. So they may come back up and take over the top spots and can evern knock warlock deck down further.
They've been doing this as long as I remember since StarCraft. Instead of tweaking a couple numbers here and there, they will just gut X balance change completely. Not much else to it other than their balance team is bad at common sense/basic math.
It is a central philosophy to Blizzard called 'taking turns'. The powerful class/tribe/build is rendered irrelevant so another can enjoy brokenness. It has some advantages:
Soothes the butthurt by providing retribution for the victims of the OP element.
No real brainpower required to come up with the 'balance' change
Players who invested in the broken element suddenly need to pony up all over again.
Some will disagree, but they can say 'hiyah' to warlock, the new overlords.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
They've been doing this as long as I remember since StarCraft. Instead of tweaking a couple numbers here and there, they will just gut X balance change completely. Not much else to it other than their balance team is bad at common sense/basic math.
It is a central philosophy to Blizzard called 'taking turns'. The powerful class/tribe/build is rendered irrelevant so another can enjoy brokenness. It has some advantages:
Soothes the butthurt by providing retribution for the victims of the OP element.
No real brainpower required to come up with the 'balance' change
Players who invested in the broken element suddenly need to pony up all over again.
Some will disagree, but they can say 'hiyah' to warlock, the new overlords.
another extremist, I remember when people, saying how bad rogue would be post rotation.....how it would be a dead class..........People always jump to the quickest worry. Wait and see is the more logical approach. New decks may get made now, that destroy cubelock. I personally had no problem with cubelock, and found control lock more harder to beat. My decks had no nerfed cards to do this, there is alot more better deck builders out there, that can find others also.
They've been doing this as long as I remember since StarCraft. Instead of tweaking a couple numbers here and there, they will just gut X balance change completely. Not much else to it other than their balance team is bad at common sense/basic math.
It is a central philosophy to Blizzard called 'taking turns'. The powerful class/tribe/build is rendered irrelevant so another can enjoy brokenness. It has some advantages:
Soothes the butthurt by providing retribution for the victims of the OP element.
No real brainpower required to come up with the 'balance' change
Players who invested in the broken element suddenly need to pony up all over again.
Some will disagree, but they can say 'hiyah' to warlock, the new overlords.
Not many thinking types on this forum, but this is spot-on. Card design philosophy serving mindlessness is what current devs are very capable off. Good for pack selling, an insult to the possibility of a skill-based game.
So salty yet with zero experience/evidence/justification to back up such wild claims about people you don't know and a topic you clearly don't fully understand.
You're just jumping to whatever angry little conclusion you want to, to make you feel better about not understanding all the elements of designing/developing cards games. The guys on Team5 are far far more qualified than any of you in regard to card design, hence why they're working at Team5..... Go and apply to work there and "fix" the game, you'll see how rapidly your confidence dissipates in the face of people who live and breath card games and have done for decades.... Balance is an ongoing process and the notion of design philosophy serving mindlessness, shows how naive you are in your understanding.
Take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect..... You're an embodiment of it.
They've been doing this as long as I remember since StarCraft. Instead of tweaking a couple numbers here and there, they will just gut X balance change completely. Not much else to it other than their balance team is bad at common sense/basic math.
It is a central philosophy to Blizzard called 'taking turns'. The powerful class/tribe/build is rendered irrelevant so another can enjoy brokenness. It has some advantages:
Soothes the butthurt by providing retribution for the victims of the OP element.
No real brainpower required to come up with the 'balance' change
Players who invested in the broken element suddenly need to pony up all over again.
Some will disagree, but they can say 'hiyah' to warlock, the new overlords.
Not many thinking types on this forum, but this is spot-on. Card design philosophy serving mindlessness is what current devs are very capable off. Good for pack selling, an insult to the possibility of a skill-based game.
So salty yet with zero experience/evidence/justification to back up such wild claims about people you don't know and a topic you clearly don't fully understand.
You're just jumping to whatever angry little conclusion you want to, to make you feel better about not understanding all the elements of designing/developing cards games. The guys on Team5 are far far more qualified than any of you in regard to card design, hence why they're working at Team5..... Go and apply to work there and "fix" the game, you'll see how rapidly your confidence dissipates in the face of people who live and breath card games and have done for decades.... Balance is an ongoing process and the notion of design philosophy serving mindlessness, shows how naive you are in your understanding.
Take a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect..... You're an embodiment of it.
Wow, not heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect but it perfectly describes the quoted poster, just take a look at the history of their posts it's like a text book case.
You've summed up pretty much my own thoughts on the matter as well. Now as a purely gut reaction I haven't always liked the nerfs Team 5 have done (fairly indifferent about the most recent ones). However given their phenomenal success in developing this genre of game I'm fairly comfortable that they know what they're doing and don't think they're out to get me. It's incredibly easy to say "they've done this wrong they should have done THIS!" however they probably thought of it, tested it and it didn't work. Which I trust a lot more than some random on the internets gut feel.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
Stop printing OP-cards like scalebane, kingsbane, corridor creeper, bonemare. Stop printing cards that make the meta hyper aggressive.
Don't make drawing board, railroaded decks like quest mage, kingsbane rogue, highlander priest that only attract aggressive counter play to win the game.
Print cards that slow down the game: more diverse decks, more unviable cards become viable. In general stop print cards that cater into the dominance of aggro-aggressive archetypes.
Print cards that raise the skill floor. Skill of the game will increase by doing so. That means another crowd coming in playing the game. That means more diversity, more thinking time, more viable playable cards. Skill in the game is mistakenly, but convienently framed by Brode to be represented by the skill ceiling. Very smart if you don't want to do something about the speed of the game: core reason of current problems with the meta.
So stop printing cards for the mindless crowd. Stop the easy win fix frenzy. The fear that would drop revenues is unfounded as the game would open up for a different skill oriented crowd.
I'll touch on how naive you are.
1.) There are always going to be strong cards within any card game, auto-includes/high values etc etc. These can be and are played around. Playing around class specific and neutral plays on specific turns defines archetypes and play styles across classes. Are there ebs and flows in power class to class - of course. This is natural in all card games. You also touch on the meta being hyper aggressive yet then also moan about slower decks which have answers to everything......... It seems you make your mind up to prove your point/emotions in any given situation. Also, the solution within a digital format doesn't have to be not printing a card, it can be allowing a card to be played and form part of seasons of meta games and then choosing to nerf/adapt cards over time after it's tested by the player base. There are only so many simulations and analytic periods you can run on a card before print... don't kid yourself that this process is easy to define, there are countless articles going all the way back to the early days of magic discussing just how difficult this process is, without going into the topic of how one defines balance at given time periods.
2.) You can't be serious in not understanding counterplay... after claiming to understand card games. Active counterplay is a fundamental part of being a great player and having a knowledge of the current format and card base. If you come up against a slow combo build deck, you know that it's in your favour to act quickly. If you come across a minion heavy synergy deck, you may aggressively look to diminish their board to remove this.
3.) Your concept of "slowing down the game" is horrendously naive. Not everyone wants to play slow decks, people like pressuring opponents rapidly. Aggro decks in themselves carry inherent risk and feature in all card games and always have, so stop acting like you're somehow in with new information compared to the "crowd". Aggro isn't going anywhere, it never has. Still exists in Magic and as per my previous points, the good players accept them as part of the game and part of how they intelligently play within the meta.
4.) no point even waging in here. The comment itself shows how utterly naive and narrow minded you are sprouting vague nonsense such as "more viable playable cards" or "more diversity" - yet offering no substance to what you mean.
5.) similar to the above, your reference once again to the "mindless crowd" - (that's everyone on this forum by your reckoning and the entire player base, other than you....?) Where's the easy win fix? If it exists, why weren't you playing in the finals at world's and winning $250k..???? They don't fear a drop in revenues for opening up to a "different skill orientated crowd" - this isn't how growth within the sector works on a design basis. By definition of recorded win rates, there is not an easy win in hearthstone. Would love to hear you try to define what the "mindless crowd" is...what's the easy win???
It's not about shutting up or that devs know everything. It's about the fact that, they don't make grand claims... they work on the game. Grand claims require grand evidence.... you're the one making grand claims about a game being awful or having a mindless crowd yet ultimately back it up with absolutely nothing. It has a player base in the tens of millions, to think that all of those are "mindless" is selling yourself as the odd one out and you're not a special little snowflake, you're just like the rest. You're ready to slag the team off who work on the game but you have no qualification as to what they're doing "wrong" when the game has a remit for design. You're ready to call me a fanboy when in reality I've just worked in the industry and you see "balance" as this 2 dimensional concept that seems to be bred from you having some unfortunate losses playing HS and you're just aggravated and want to moan that the game isn't how you want it to be.
Why should it be exactly how you want? When so many people (of whom many are professional players, 1 is a magic hall of famer < to counter your idea that skill/talents plays no role with "easy win") enjoy the game.... Which leads back to your placement in the discussion, why are you uniquely placed to know that the devs/designers are "wrong". Given that devs are also players.........Paradoxical basis for an argument.
Of course they are, it's easy to make recommendations without having any evidence of the need for them or the complexity of implementing them. It's very easy to be an ideas man in the world it's a lot harder to actually realise these ideas.
Not interested in how difficult designing is. interested in principles of balance, diversity, speed, skill floor level, win condition-difficulty which you agree upon before you start the designing process.
You're exactly right these are all things that should be thought of before the design process starts and they demonstrably have been. Just because you don't like the results or the game Hearthstone was designed to be doesn't make the solution wrong. Perhaps the problem is with you and your expectations and you should look elsewhere for this mythical game you seek.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
IMO the lack of nerf for cubelock leads me to believe that Doomguard is getting the HOF treatment with Iceblock.
I'm not sure, Doomguard only seems to be perceived as a problem due to it's part in Cubelock which I feel is mainly due to the combo rather than this card. That said I found it odd that Dark Pact didn't get adjusted. Based on their previous treatment of low mana spells and the utility this card could have across all kinds of control deck maybe there is a reason they left it alone.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
Just because you don't like the results or the game Hearthstone was designed to be doesn't make the solution wrong. Perhaps the problem is with you and your expectations and you should look elsewhere for this mythical game you seek.
Can only second this. It's exactly as it's meant to be by remit... So if you don't like it, which you clearly don't. Find another game to enjoy.
I hope you do find another game to enjoy so we don't have to put up with your ramblings.
He could even go off and make his own card game.....With it being so easy and obvious and with all your extensive knowledge and experience...................................I think he's got a PhD and a Masters, so should be a breeze. =)
You know you've messed up when you nerf a minion so badly that the Carrion Grub is now a better option! I think that some nerfs were needed - but I am frankly alarmed that none of the nerfs included any Warlock cards like, AT ALL!
Well isnt it the reason to nerf some cards; so that others can shine? Also it cant be killed anymore by shadowreaper, sw:death, lightbomb. So its a nerf for the current meta situation. But actually CC only got "changes". In a future wild match its maybe even better....
To Warlock: Since alle these meta decks are dead now, maybe there will shine a new one which easily defeats warlock when it hasnt to deal with CC, patches and Raza. A Slow Warrior can easily build up enough armor for the Cube-turn and then clear the board.
My biggest point about the nerfs (see video in my signature) is that, while sometimes Blizzard makes reasonable nerfs that allow a card to still be played (Soulfire, Spreading Plague), quite often they nerf cards so hard that the cards are never played, effectively banning them (Starving Buzzard, Warsong Commander, Arcane Golem) in both Wild and Standard. I would prefer, instead of nerfing, Blizzard to just HoF or otherwise ban these cards from standard, but allow them into Wild unchanged, so the cards and the decks they enabled can still be played. To me, that's what Wild is about -- being able to play powerful cards and decks that are no longer allowed in standard (due to rotation or power level issues). I'm OK with Wild being comparatively high power to standard.
they got a lot better than from the previous years, i give them that
sure they could be made better, but all of these make a lot of sense. they'll get it eventually
They've been doing this as long as I remember since StarCraft. Instead of tweaking a couple numbers here and there, they will just gut X balance change completely. Not much else to it other than their balance team is bad at common sense/basic math.
Probably not
First the reason no card in warlock did not get nerf, no card is OP by itself..........most are balance. Lackey cheats out a minion.....but it takes you still having a demon in deck to pull it....if it is in your hand...lackey just becomes a 2/2 for 5 mana........which is a nerf in it self and bad. Same thing with the weapon, if you have no demons in hand........useless.
Cube by itself is not that op.....that is why not every other class is playing it. Warlock dk is good, but most dks are good, with the exception of warriors, but I seen decks made with it too. As someone else tried to explain, just because warlock was one of 3 top decks, which didnt get nerf, doesn't mean it will be top now, or even stay in top 3. Because other decks that got nerfed held back other decks, that might of been an counter to the warlock deck, but was not used because of the decks that got nerfed. So they may come back up and take over the top spots and can evern knock warlock deck down further.
Some will disagree, but they can say 'hiyah' to warlock, the new overlords.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
But I do believe that if they did nerf a warlock card, it would be Doomgaurd, to maybe cant attack heros this turn.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
IMO the lack of nerf for cubelock leads me to believe that Doomguard is getting the HOF treatment with Iceblock.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
Arguing on the internet is like playing chess with a pigeon. You may be good at chess, but the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces down, take a shit on the table, and strut around like its victorious.
Hoogstone
Well isnt it the reason to nerf some cards; so that others can shine? Also it cant be killed anymore by shadowreaper, sw:death, lightbomb. So its a nerf for the current meta situation. But actually CC only got "changes". In a future wild match its maybe even better....
To Warlock: Since alle these meta decks are dead now, maybe there will shine a new one which easily defeats warlock when it hasnt to deal with CC, patches and Raza. A Slow Warrior can easily build up enough armor for the Cube-turn and then clear the board.
My biggest point about the nerfs (see video in my signature) is that, while sometimes Blizzard makes reasonable nerfs that allow a card to still be played (Soulfire, Spreading Plague), quite often they nerf cards so hard that the cards are never played, effectively banning them (Starving Buzzard, Warsong Commander, Arcane Golem) in both Wild and Standard. I would prefer, instead of nerfing, Blizzard to just HoF or otherwise ban these cards from standard, but allow them into Wild unchanged, so the cards and the decks they enabled can still be played. To me, that's what Wild is about -- being able to play powerful cards and decks that are no longer allowed in standard (due to rotation or power level issues). I'm OK with Wild being comparatively high power to standard.
Catch me on YouTube and Twitch: https://www.youtube.com/c/Hindered https://www.twitch.tv/hindered_
My take on the Patches Raza Bonemare Creeper nerfs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysTG125huM