it doesn´t really do anything special except just making a bunch of value its pretty fair for a 10 mana card
ololololololo
you will never play it on the real "turn 10" as a druid due to ramp and/or innervate which makes it broken.
Really, so are you trying to say that 10 mana in Druid means less than 10 mana in any other class? This is the kind of stupid argument I would expect from regular people I guess, but I thought you were a pro player. Besides the only deck that can abuse its effect right now is Jade Druid (due to the many high impact cheap cards) and potentially Quest Druid in the future (but let's be honest here that deck needs some help to see any competitive viability). Try this in a normal Ramp deck and your hands will be getting very clunky pretty quickly, especially considering that most of your big drops only allow you for 1 play per turn. Don't mistake this as me saying the card is bad, I was a 100% sure it was a very strong card from the very beginning, but I think that certain decks make it seem very broken because they can abuse its effect and eliminate its drawbacks (hand size can be considerably reduced in Jade Druid since you have so many cheap cards and fatigue isn't a concern unless your opponent runs Skulking Geist).
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore, for some reason.
I agree 100%. In Ramp Druid your hands become very clunky with this and the 2nd copy of UI gets run for consistency so its mostly a dead card. Jade Druid can easily play 2 or 3 high-impact cards per turn, which is what makes UI so OP in that deck. 10 mana spells need to be powerful to be played and this one in particular complements the Ramp Druid strategy a lot and helps reduce the negative impact of drawing dead cards late-game (ramping early on in the game is inconsistent enough as it, so when you do manage to Ramp you should have cards like this to reduce the drawback of drawing dead cards and combat Card Advantage depletion). On top of that drawing 5 cards can be very difficult to be without burning cards or getting very close to fatigue (unless you are Jade Druid or run a Jade Idol, which would be an additional dead card if run on a non-Jade Druid deck). I also really don't get these nerf thread requests so early in the new expansion. Now a lot of people are playing unrefined control lists and those are the decks Jade Druid preys on, but this doesn't mean the deck is broken, especially because we will soon see even bigger pushes to aggro and some of those decks can destroy Jade Druid, despite the presence of cards like Spreading Plague. I guess that its much easier to whine first, think things through later, because the class you don't play got a strong card.
I think druid should have gotten either spreading plague or infestation, but not both. Two very strong cards in both ends of the game, both alleviating a great weakness of greedy druid decks.
But do you really think that either of those cards would see so much resistance if Jade Druid didn't exist (which as far as Standard is concerned will only be the case for like 8 more months)?
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable for some reason, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore.
Incorrect. If you check my original post, it actually had nothing to do with nerfing the effect of the card, nor changing it's cost. My original point was that the card should have been a legendary, since it had at least a legenedary-level effect (especially when compared to the most similar effect of (for example) Kazakus, who cannot even guarantee you the spell effects you want, and he is a legendary AND takes two turns to come online).
Yes, the problem is exacerbated by the fact it enhance the already horrible Jade deck, but that was only half the original point.
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore, for some reason.
I agree 100%. In Ramp Druid your hands become very clunky with this and the 2nd copy of UI gets run for consistency so its mostly a dead card. Jade Druid can easily play 2 or 3 high-impact cards per turn, which is what makes UI so OP in that deck. 10 mana spells need to be powerful to be played and this one in particular complements the Ramp Druid strategy a lot and helps reduce the negative impact of drawing dead cards late-game (ramping early on in the game is inconsistent enough as it, so when you do manage to Ramp you should have cards like this to reduce the drawback of drawing dead cards and combat Card Advantage depletion). On top of that drawing 5 cards can be very difficult to be without burning cards or getting very close to fatigue (unless you are Jade Druid or run a Jade Idol, which would be an additional dead card if run on a non-Jade Druid deck). I also really don't get these nerf thread requests so early in the new expansion. Now a lot of people are playing unrefined control lists and those are the decks Jade Druid preys on, but this doesn't mean the deck is broken, especially because we will soon see even bigger pushes to aggro and some of those decks can destroy Jade Druid, despite the presence of cards like Spreading Plague. I guess that its much easier to whine first, think things through later, because the class you don't play got a strong card.
There is also the issue of class bias, because Druid wasn't all that well liked before because of Jade and Token Druid being the only strong archetypes. We can see that all the time with Hunter and how its still hated despite not being strong for a long time, but it was good at Aggro, so it must be op right? I really hope we don't end up with another Call of the Wild situation, where an entire class got fucked in the long run for having one strong card. People forget that the next rotation will move Jades to Wild, so Druid needs alternative win conditions like Ultimate Infestation.
Tbh I didn't find Call of the Wild that strong that it needed a nerf. I think that strong, expensive (mana-wise), cards will always face a lot of resistance from the community and the main reason for that is that from your opponent's perspective they can't see the risks and problems this introduces. Say a Hunter runs 2 copies of Call of the Wild, this leads to his curve being less consistent than any alternative before, which means that they will lose some games because they get too little early game to apply enough pressure for Call of the Wild to win them the game. What do I remember as an opponent though? The fact that Call of the Wild beat me that game and in my mind the idea that that card won the game creates a very negative feeling (because we try to reason with ourselves that it is a single card and that one card should never win you the game, etc.), but because Hearthstone doesn't always go to the late-game and because very big cards often mean we can make a single play per turn, its so important that cards that cost a lot have some more value than they are costed.
I mean look at a card like Flame Imp 1 mana -> 5 stats for an irrelevant disadvantage in the archetype that plays it (Zoo, please consider for this example that the fact the deck isn't great right now isn't that relevant, its just the meta that forces this card to be bad, since cheap AoE is very problematic for the archetype) whereas Call of the Wild (now 9 mana gets you 22 stats, the 3 Animal Companions), which I guess its fairly statted considering 3 * 3 = 9, but on the high costs of mana, fairly statted cards don't cut it because of factors like the inherent risk to your curve and the fact that cards at certain slots, like 9 mana, are actually 10 mana cards in disguise statted as 9 mana cards. If I am going to skip a turn to play a card in the lategame than it better be insane as far as I am concerned.
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore, for some reason.
I agree 100%. In Ramp Druid your hands become very clunky with this and the 2nd copy of UI gets run for consistency so its mostly a dead card. Jade Druid can easily play 2 or 3 high-impact cards per turn, which is what makes UI so OP in that deck. 10 mana spells need to be powerful to be played and this one in particular complements the Ramp Druid strategy a lot and helps reduce the negative impact of drawing dead cards late-game (ramping early on in the game is inconsistent enough as it, so when you do manage to Ramp you should have cards like this to reduce the drawback of drawing dead cards and combat Card Advantage depletion). On top of that drawing 5 cards can be very difficult to be without burning cards or getting very close to fatigue (unless you are Jade Druid or run a Jade Idol, which would be an additional dead card if run on a non-Jade Druid deck). I also really don't get these nerf thread requests so early in the new expansion. Now a lot of people are playing unrefined control lists and those are the decks Jade Druid preys on, but this doesn't mean the deck is broken, especially because we will soon see even bigger pushes to aggro and some of those decks can destroy Jade Druid, despite the presence of cards like Spreading Plague. I guess that its much easier to whine first, think things through later, because the class you don't play got a strong card.
I think druid should have gotten either spreading plague or infestation, but not both. Two very strong cards in both ends of the game, both alleviating a great weakness of greedy druid decks.
But do you really think that either of those cards would see so much resistance if Jade Druid didn't exist (which as far as Standard is concerned will only be the case for like 8 more months)?
That's a hypothetical which can only be answered if we knew what cards druid would have instead, so I don't think it is very relevant to this discussion.
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable for some reason, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore.
Incorrect. If you check my original post, it actually had nothing to do with nerfing the effect of the card, nor changing it's cost. My original point was that the card should have been a legendary, since it had at least a legenedary-level effect (especially when compared to the most similar effect of (for example) Kazakus, who cannot even guarantee you the spell effects you want, and he is a legendary AND takes two turns to come online).
Yes, the problem is exacerbated by the fact it enhance the already horrible Jade deck, but that was only half the original point.
But, we all know that will never happen since Legendary spells don't exist (beside Quests) and there is no reason for a class to have 3 Legendaries and 1 Epic all of a sudden. The change you want to make is non-sensical and "confusing" to some imaginary part of the playerbase and thus the only change that this sorts of discussion threads can bring are ones that destroy the card so that it is unplayable or sees at best fringe play. The only reason this seems so OP is due to Jade Druid (spoiler even if you lower everything to 4 they will still run this). I don't see people crying nearly as much over Token or Ramp Druid and how its UI that makes them this strong.
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore, for some reason.
I agree 100%. In Ramp Druid your hands become very clunky with this and the 2nd copy of UI gets run for consistency so its mostly a dead card. Jade Druid can easily play 2 or 3 high-impact cards per turn, which is what makes UI so OP in that deck. 10 mana spells need to be powerful to be played and this one in particular complements the Ramp Druid strategy a lot and helps reduce the negative impact of drawing dead cards late-game (ramping early on in the game is inconsistent enough as it, so when you do manage to Ramp you should have cards like this to reduce the drawback of drawing dead cards and combat Card Advantage depletion). On top of that drawing 5 cards can be very difficult to be without burning cards or getting very close to fatigue (unless you are Jade Druid or run a Jade Idol, which would be an additional dead card if run on a non-Jade Druid deck). I also really don't get these nerf thread requests so early in the new expansion. Now a lot of people are playing unrefined control lists and those are the decks Jade Druid preys on, but this doesn't mean the deck is broken, especially because we will soon see even bigger pushes to aggro and some of those decks can destroy Jade Druid, despite the presence of cards like Spreading Plague. I guess that its much easier to whine first, think things through later, because the class you don't play got a strong card.
I think druid should have gotten either spreading plague or infestation, but not both. Two very strong cards in both ends of the game, both alleviating a great weakness of greedy druid decks.
But do you really think that either of those cards would see so much resistance if Jade Druid didn't exist (which as far as Standard is concerned will only be the case for like 8 more months)?
That's a hypothetical which can only be answered if we knew what cards druid would have instead, so I don't think it is very relevant to this discussion.
In the next Standard cycle though its not hypothetical. I am not talking about balance in Wild, since we know that a lot of broken combos exist there, but I don't see Druid getting anything as oppressive as Jade in the next 2 sets, so it is relevant to the discussion. E.g. Aviana and Kun the Forgotten King are ok cards on their own, but truly shine together. The same may be true in this case where Jade Druid really showcases the strongest power level this card will ever have and thus Jade Druid should receive a nerf instead of UI. Besides what's so hypothetical about all this, a simple way for you to answer is do you think this is truly broken in any deck, that is currently competitively viable, other than Jade Druid?
I also find it funny people use the words "hypothetical" to justify their lack of answers, but are ready to make hypothetical assumptions that Jade Druid is broken so early in the expansion (especially since unrefined control decks are so easy to pick on by Jade Druid), it could be that two weeks from now a lot of people start playing more aggro (a natural tendency in every metagame so far since people use fast decks to grind ladder) and Jade Druid suddenly isn't so great anymore, thus making UI less of a problem from everybody's perspective. In fact, I find it concerning everybody wants to nerf cards so fast considering that we never get buffs to cards that are made utter trash.
I've played the card and it's definitely strong but also clunky. You need to draw it in an exact timeframe to really benefit from it or it gets stuck in your hand (happened fairly often). Imho it's probably fine and it will only get worse as pressure goes up (rise of midrange and aggro). People are just playing too greedy decks right now.
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore, for some reason.
I agree 100%. In Ramp Druid your hands become very clunky with this and the 2nd copy of UI gets run for consistency so its mostly a dead card. Jade Druid can easily play 2 or 3 high-impact cards per turn, which is what makes UI so OP in that deck. 10 mana spells need to be powerful to be played and this one in particular complements the Ramp Druid strategy a lot and helps reduce the negative impact of drawing dead cards late-game (ramping early on in the game is inconsistent enough as it, so when you do manage to Ramp you should have cards like this to reduce the drawback of drawing dead cards and combat Card Advantage depletion). On top of that drawing 5 cards can be very difficult to be without burning cards or getting very close to fatigue (unless you are Jade Druid or run a Jade Idol, which would be an additional dead card if run on a non-Jade Druid deck). I also really don't get these nerf thread requests so early in the new expansion. Now a lot of people are playing unrefined control lists and those are the decks Jade Druid preys on, but this doesn't mean the deck is broken, especially because we will soon see even bigger pushes to aggro and some of those decks can destroy Jade Druid, despite the presence of cards like Spreading Plague. I guess that its much easier to whine first, think things through later, because the class you don't play got a strong card.
I think druid should have gotten either spreading plague or infestation, but not both. Two very strong cards in both ends of the game, both alleviating a great weakness of greedy druid decks.
But do you really think that either of those cards would see so much resistance if Jade Druid didn't exist (which as far as Standard is concerned will only be the case for like 8 more months)?
That's a hypothetical which can only be answered if we knew what cards druid would have instead, so I don't think it is very relevant to this discussion.
In the next Standard cycle though its not hypothetical. I am not talking about balance in Wild, since we know that a lot of broken combos exist there, but I don't see Druid getting anything as oppressive as Jade in the next 2 sets, so it is relevant to the discussion. E.g. Aviana and Kun the Forgotten King are ok cards on their own, but truly shine together. The same may be true in this case where Jade Druid really showcases the strongest power level this card will ever have and thus Jade Druid should receive a nerf instead of UI. Besides what's so hypothetical about all this, a simple way for you to answer is do you think this is truly broken in any deck, that is currently competitively viable, other than Jade Druid?
I also find it funny people use the words "hypothetical" to justify their lack of answers, but are ready to make hypothetical assumptions that Jade Druid is broken so early in the expansion (especially since unrefined control decks are so easy to pick on by Jade Druid), it could be that two weeks from now a lot of people start playing more aggro (a natural tendency in every metagame so far since people use fast decks to grind ladder) and Jade Druid suddenly isn't so great anymore, thus making UI less of a problem from everybody's perspective. In fact, I find it concerning everybody wants to nerf cards so fast considering that we never get buffs to cards that are made utter trash.
You find it "funny" that I can't answer how good the card will be in the next expansion without knowing the cards that will come, or that I can't answer how good it would be without a card in this expansion without knowing the replacement? Sounds like you're mostly writing big words and arbitrary conclusions.
And claiming that commening on the state of druid now is hypothetical is asinine. I mean, it is literally the exact opposite of hypothetical.
Incorrect. If you check my original post, it actually had nothing to do with nerfing the effect of the card, nor changing it's cost. My original point was that the card should have been a legendary, since it had at least a legenedary-level effect (especially when compared to the most similar effect of (for example) Kazakus, who cannot even guarantee you the spell effects you want, and he is a legendary AND takes two turns to come online).
Yes, the problem is exacerbated by the fact it enhance the already horrible Jade deck, but that was only half the original point.
But, we all know that will never happen since Legendary spells don't exist (beside Quests) and there is no reason for a class to have 3 Legendaries and 1 Epic all of a sudden. The change you want to make is non-sensical and "confusing" to some imaginary part of the playerbase and thus the only change that this sorts of discussion threads can bring are ones that destroy the card so that it is unplayable or sees at best fringe play. The only reason this seems so OP is due to Jade Druid (spoiler even if you lower everything to 4 they will still run this). I don't see people crying nearly as much over Token or Ramp Druid and how its UI that makes them this strong.
Sorry, but that is an entirely feeble and nonsensical argument. You are claiming that just because there are no previous legendary spells that all of a sudden there should never be? And that's taking into account your ignoring of the fact that like it or not, quests are spells. And if Blizzard were to take that approach, we wouldn't have the death knights which are actually another type of spell.
And who cares about the numbers of how many legendaries and epics a class has? The only people who couild possibly get annoyed about that are those who are literally just looking for something to complain about.
Since the change I proposed is only "'confusing' to some imaginary part of the playerbase", then I obviously have nothing to worry about in promoting it. The imaginary playerbase that is 'confused' by this (which obiously doesn't exist) can be as confused as they like. ^_^
There are plenty of people complaining about Token and Ramp Druid, but not in this thread, because this thread is about something entirely different. Feel free to go onto one of the many threads about those decks and try to defend them if you like.
I think as an anti-aggro or mid-range card it is very strong because it's ton of value but the 5 card draw make it really bad vs. other control decks, especially warrior with Dead Man's Hand or Priest with Archbishop Benedictus - fatigue matchups generally.
Incorrect. If you check my original post, it actually had nothing to do with nerfing the effect of the card, nor changing it's cost. My original point was that the card should have been a legendary, since it had at least a legenedary-level effect (especially when compared to the most similar effect of (for example) Kazakus, who cannot even guarantee you the spell effects you want, and he is a legendary AND takes two turns to come online).
Yes, the problem is exacerbated by the fact it enhance the already horrible Jade deck, but that was only half the original point.
But, we all know that will never happen since Legendary spells don't exist (beside Quests) and there is no reason for a class to have 3 Legendaries and 1 Epic all of a sudden. The change you want to make is non-sensical and "confusing" to some imaginary part of the playerbase and thus the only change that this sorts of discussion threads can bring are ones that destroy the card so that it is unplayable or sees at best fringe play. The only reason this seems so OP is due to Jade Druid (spoiler even if you lower everything to 4 they will still run this). I don't see people crying nearly as much over Token or Ramp Druid and how its UI that makes them this strong.
Sorry, but that is an entirely feeble and nonsensical argument. You are claiming that just because there are no previous legendary spells that all of a sudden there should never be? And that's taking into account your ignoring of the fact that like it or not, quests are spells. And if Blizzard were to take that approach, we wouldn't have the death knights which are actually another type of spell.
And who cares about the numbers of how many legendaries and epics a class has? The only people who couild possibly get annoyed about that are those who are literally just looking for something to complain about.
Since the change I proposed is only "'confusing' to some imaginary part of the playerbase", then I obviously have nothing to worry about in promoting it. The imaginary playerbase that is 'confused' by this (which obiously doesn't exist) can be as confused as they like. ^_^
There are plenty of people complaining about Token and Ramp Druid, but not in this thread, because this thread is about something entirely different. Feel free to go onto one of the many threads about those decks and try to defend them if you like.
Yeah dude, but these are the considerations that the dev team has said time and again that they make before considering certain things. E.g. they said that 18 deckslots would be too confusing for some people, thus my comment on the imaginary part of the playerbase, but you can see how one would draw a tangent then, per their logic, that they could see this as confusing (i.e. introducing a legendary spell that isn't a quest to a class). They also do care about card distribution (rarity-wise) across classes, which should be abundantly clear considering this has been the case in every expansion so far, but one (in TGT, Hunter got two legendaries, unlike other classes).
Well people will always complain about something, won't they, so the issue here is to understand whether they are whining (about Token and Ramp) or whether they're legitimately right, which can only be proved through statistics that only Blizzard has an accurate picture of.
So chill out, and stop thinking that somehow you are right about the change you want to introduce, because it is a change that based on their comments is unlikely to ever happen. If Blizzard finds it concerning they will nerf it somehow. A lot of decks run UI for consistency and not because they really want to use both, with the exception of Jade since they never get to fatigue anyway, so in a way its a legendary and the 2nd copy ends up being a dead card, which reduces deck consistency.
Edit: I just noticed that you ignored me pointing out that Quests are the only exception to legendary spells, which goes to show how carefully you read what people countering your argument say. My advice, don't reply if you can't be bothered to read.
Seems like the only reason anyone thinks this card is OP is because of how it can complement Jade. If not for Jade, no one would be talking about this card, because outside of Jade, it's fine. But instead of focusing on the problem that is Jade, you're trying to create collateral damage to make yet another Druid card unplayable, thus joining the ranks of Keeper of the Grove and Ancient of Lore, for some reason.
I agree 100%. In Ramp Druid your hands become very clunky with this and the 2nd copy of UI gets run for consistency so its mostly a dead card. Jade Druid can easily play 2 or 3 high-impact cards per turn, which is what makes UI so OP in that deck. 10 mana spells need to be powerful to be played and this one in particular complements the Ramp Druid strategy a lot and helps reduce the negative impact of drawing dead cards late-game (ramping early on in the game is inconsistent enough as it, so when you do manage to Ramp you should have cards like this to reduce the drawback of drawing dead cards and combat Card Advantage depletion). On top of that drawing 5 cards can be very difficult to be without burning cards or getting very close to fatigue (unless you are Jade Druid or run a Jade Idol, which would be an additional dead card if run on a non-Jade Druid deck). I also really don't get these nerf thread requests so early in the new expansion. Now a lot of people are playing unrefined control lists and those are the decks Jade Druid preys on, but this doesn't mean the deck is broken, especially because we will soon see even bigger pushes to aggro and some of those decks can destroy Jade Druid, despite the presence of cards like Spreading Plague. I guess that its much easier to whine first, think things through later, because the class you don't play got a strong card.
I think druid should have gotten either spreading plague or infestation, but not both. Two very strong cards in both ends of the game, both alleviating a great weakness of greedy druid decks.
But do you really think that either of those cards would see so much resistance if Jade Druid didn't exist (which as far as Standard is concerned will only be the case for like 8 more months)?
That's a hypothetical which can only be answered if we knew what cards druid would have instead, so I don't think it is very relevant to this discussion.
In the next Standard cycle though its not hypothetical. I am not talking about balance in Wild, since we know that a lot of broken combos exist there, but I don't see Druid getting anything as oppressive as Jade in the next 2 sets, so it is relevant to the discussion. E.g. Aviana and Kun the Forgotten King are ok cards on their own, but truly shine together. The same may be true in this case where Jade Druid really showcases the strongest power level this card will ever have and thus Jade Druid should receive a nerf instead of UI. Besides what's so hypothetical about all this, a simple way for you to answer is do you think this is truly broken in any deck, that is currently competitively viable, other than Jade Druid?
I also find it funny people use the words "hypothetical" to justify their lack of answers, but are ready to make hypothetical assumptions that Jade Druid is broken so early in the expansion (especially since unrefined control decks are so easy to pick on by Jade Druid), it could be that two weeks from now a lot of people start playing more aggro (a natural tendency in every metagame so far since people use fast decks to grind ladder) and Jade Druid suddenly isn't so great anymore, thus making UI less of a problem from everybody's perspective. In fact, I find it concerning everybody wants to nerf cards so fast considering that we never get buffs to cards that are made utter trash.
You find it "funny" that I can't answer how good the card will be in the next expansion without knowing the cards that will come, or that I can't answer how good it would be without a card in this expansion without knowing the replacement? Sounds like you're mostly writing big words and arbitrary conclusions.
And claiming that commening on the state of druid now is hypothetical is asinine. I mean, it is literally the exact opposite of hypothetical.
This isn't about evaluating future cards though, its about how you feel about the card if Jade Druid wasn't a deck right now (obviously no one can predict future cards), but how do you see the card's impact on Token or Ramp (two very popular Druid decks throughout Hearthstone's history) making the, imho, realistic assumption that nothing like Jade will be given again to Druid in the near future.
No, it is hypothetical until the meta settles and we see which are the truly powerful/broken decks. In previous metagames we had some decks that seemed very strong (in fact, I remember N'Zoth Paladin was considered very strong for 2-3 weeks after Old Gods was released, which you can confirm on some site that ranks decks and keeps a record of those rankings like tempostorm) and then due to metagame changes turned out to not be that great.
What I am observing from you though is a reluctance to reply with a straight answer to my question and I don't understand why. If you want to point out your opinions so loudly why don't you first play with the card and then come and comment here on how good or bad this is outside of Jade Druid. This is exactly why I find the whole situation funny, so that we can be clear with each other. You are quick to condemn the card as OP, but you can't even evaluate how good its in other current decks, making your opinion unqualified to judge the power level of the card.
E.g. they said that 18 deckslots would be too confusing for some people,
However, they still went ahead and did it which goes to show that the consideration of an imaginary group doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of the design.
They also do care about card distribution (rarity-wise) across classes,
I never said they didn't care about it. in fact, since we're apparently going down the he-said-she-said-in-the-past route, they said early on that they didn't want to saturate expansions with more than 1 legendary per class. Guess what? They changed their mind. They said they didn't want to allow 18 Deck-slots. Guess what? They changed their mind. They didn't want to change the way that heroes worked in the game. Guess what? I think you can. Essentially, Blizzard has a proven track record of stating one thing then doing something totally different when they change their mind.
Well people will always complain about something, won't they, so the issue here is to understand whether they are whining (about Token and Ramp) or whether they're legitimately right, which can only be proved through statistics that only Blizzard has an accurate picture of.
Sorry, but supposition is useless in any argument. Anyone could suppose anyone is thinking anything. I have just as much platform to suggest that any argument is completely valid and worth raising but you can't disprove it because Blizzard hasn't realeased some magical figures yet. It doesn't work that way, I'm afraid.
So chill out, and stop thinking that somehow you are right about the change you want to introduce
Dude, how do you think this stuff works exactly? Of course I believe I am right about the change I propose otherwise I wouldn't propose it. I don't write this stuff for the proverbial sh*ts and giggles. Why do you think people make complaints in the first place if they dont believe they are right? /smh
, because it is a change that based on their comments is unlikely to ever happen.
Feel free to cite your source where Blizzard states they will never nerf a card or make changes to it please. Or where they say they will never change a card's rarity class. Not that it would even matter if they did anyway, since we have already established they are prone to changing their minds at whim...
If Blizzard finds it concerning they will nerf it somehow.
It is intriguing how you think Blizzard will choose to nerf a card if nobody ever makes a complaint about it. How do you think all the previous cardf nerfs came about exactly? You realise they're not omniscient godlike beings in the sky, don't you? o.O
Edit: I just noticed that you ignored me pointing out that Quests are the only exception to legendary spells, which goes to show how carefully you read what people countering your argument say. My advice, don't reply if you can't be bothered to read.
No, I pointed out that you threw a passing ignore about the quest spells in parentheses, (essentially because they completely disproved what you were about to argue). Ironically your advice would be well served to take yourself, it seems.
*ring ring* - Hello? Oh, it's for you. It's Kettle and he sounds pissed...!
How is this card only an epic? Seriously? Compare this to what you can possibly get from Kazakus and you suddenly get an idea as to how overpowered this card. Not to mention the fact that you can guarantee it (whereas Kazakus is always random).
And then add the icing on the cake - you can put 2 in your deck!? The Cancer Druid is back! :-D And you thought the original Jade was bad... heh!
Well thats your opinion. Anything is cancer to someone who loses to it. Just play better?
Dude, how do you think this stuff works exactly? Of course I believe I am right about the change I propose otherwise I wouldn't propose it. I don't write this stuff for the proverbial sh*ts and giggles. Why do you think people make complaints in the first place if they dont believe they are right? /smh
Well the change you are proposing isn't something that I can see them considering given how they have never changed cards in terms of rarity and how this card would suddenly become legendary in a game where the only other legendary cards are Quests. Thus, I am telling you there is no way that what you are proposing will ever happen. I am not saying that you don't think you are right (that would be stupid to suggest), I am saying that what you expect the nerf to be is unrealistic and it won't happen so if you want to make suggestions on changes ground them to reality. In fact, get back to me when this card rotates out of Standard and I am 100% sure that it won't have been turned into a legendary by then (maybe nerfed somehow, but its rarity isn't changing), because we know that any card that moves in Wild is unlikely to be changed unless it causes easy OTK scenarios like the Dreadsteed.
Feel free to cite your source where Blizzard states they will never nerf a card or make changes to it please. Or where they say they will never change a card's rarity class. Not that it would even matter if they did anyway, since we have already established they are prone to changing their minds at whim...
This is a truly stupid way to look at things. Then please state when they have given any inclination towards the opposite. See? This kind of talk doesn't promote any discussion where a conclusion can be reached. They have never changed the rarity of a card so far and in the end its much easier to just put every 5 in the card to 4 and nerf it that way rather than introduce the first non-Quest Legendary Spell. Of course, I guess I am basing my arguments on the logical flow of things, based on previous data we have (on how nerfs are done etc.), but please continue to daydream that what you say will actually happen.
It is intriguing how you think Blizzard will choose to nerf a card if nobody ever makes a complaint about it. How do you think all the previous cardf nerfs came about exactly? You realise they're not omniscient godlike beings in the sky, don't you? o.O
I am not saying never complain to bring something to Blizzard's attention, but don't do it so early since we aren't even a week into the expansion and if 2 - 3 weeks from now the meta is hostile to Jade Druid this card will not be as good and thus all your whining looks premature and senseless. I guess when you are as dead-set on something as you though, this is hardly something to stop you.
No, I pointed out that you threw a passing ignore about the quest spells in parentheses, (essentially because they completely disproved what you were about to argue).
No, I didn't. I was clearly stating that since so far only Quests are legendary spells it wouldn't make sense to randomly introduce a new one to the mix when its much easier to nerf it and make it a worse Epic card, but comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte.
Ironically your advice would be well served to take yourself, it seems.
*ring ring* - Hello? Oh, it's for you. It's Kettle and he sounds pissed...!
Please stop from adding this mandatory (for people like you) BS statements, because it only makes you look stupid when you realize how off the mark your comments are. I understand perfectly well what you are saying, but there are much easier alternatives for Blizzard than your suggestion.
lel, doesnt need flexibility if it does everything /s
Mod Working Reaaaaally Hardly
If you check my original post, it actually had nothing to do with nerfing the effect of the card, nor changing it's cost. My original point was that the card should have been a legendary, since it had at least a legenedary-level effect (especially when compared to the most similar effect of (for example) Kazakus, who cannot even guarantee you the spell effects you want, and he is a legendary AND takes two turns to come online).
I've played the card and it's definitely strong but also clunky. You need to draw it in an exact timeframe to really benefit from it or it gets stuck in your hand (happened fairly often). Imho it's probably fine and it will only get worse as pressure goes up (rise of midrange and aggro). People are just playing too greedy decks right now.
And that's taking into account your ignoring of the fact that like it or not, quests are spells.
And if Blizzard were to take that approach, we wouldn't have the death knights which are actually another type of spell.
I think as an anti-aggro or mid-range card it is very strong because it's ton of value but the 5 card draw make it really bad vs. other control decks, especially warrior with Dead Man's Hand or Priest with Archbishop Benedictus - fatigue matchups generally.
This isn't about evaluating future cards though, its about how you feel about the card if Jade Druid wasn't a deck right now (obviously no one can predict future cards), but how do you see the card's impact on Token or Ramp (two very popular Druid decks throughout Hearthstone's history) making the, imho, realistic assumption that nothing like Jade will be given again to Druid in the near future.
No, it is hypothetical until the meta settles and we see which are the truly powerful/broken decks. In previous metagames we had some decks that seemed very strong (in fact, I remember N'Zoth Paladin was considered very strong for 2-3 weeks after Old Gods was released, which you can confirm on some site that ranks decks and keeps a record of those rankings like tempostorm) and then due to metagame changes turned out to not be that great.
What I am observing from you though is a reluctance to reply with a straight answer to my question and I don't understand why. If you want to point out your opinions so loudly why don't you first play with the card and then come and comment here on how good or bad this is outside of Jade Druid. This is exactly why I find the whole situation funny, so that we can be clear with each other. You are quick to condemn the card as OP, but you can't even evaluate how good its in other current decks, making your opinion unqualified to judge the power level of the card.
Essentially, Blizzard has a proven track record of stating one thing then doing something totally different when they change their mind.
Not that it would even matter if they did anyway, since we have already established they are prone to changing their minds at whim...
Ironically your advice would be well served to take yourself, it seems.
the expansion is not even 1 week old and people are already calling out for nerfs. Seriously, Ultimate Infestation is a fair card, it's not OP at all.
I just crafted 2 please shut up :D
Well the change you are proposing isn't something that I can see them considering given how they have never changed cards in terms of rarity and how this card would suddenly become legendary in a game where the only other legendary cards are Quests. Thus, I am telling you there is no way that what you are proposing will ever happen. I am not saying that you don't think you are right (that would be stupid to suggest), I am saying that what you expect the nerf to be is unrealistic and it won't happen so if you want to make suggestions on changes ground them to reality. In fact, get back to me when this card rotates out of Standard and I am 100% sure that it won't have been turned into a legendary by then (maybe nerfed somehow, but its rarity isn't changing), because we know that any card that moves in Wild is unlikely to be changed unless it causes easy OTK scenarios like the Dreadsteed.
This is a truly stupid way to look at things. Then please state when they have given any inclination towards the opposite. See? This kind of talk doesn't promote any discussion where a conclusion can be reached. They have never changed the rarity of a card so far and in the end its much easier to just put every 5 in the card to 4 and nerf it that way rather than introduce the first non-Quest Legendary Spell. Of course, I guess I am basing my arguments on the logical flow of things, based on previous data we have (on how nerfs are done etc.), but please continue to daydream that what you say will actually happen.
I am not saying never complain to bring something to Blizzard's attention, but don't do it so early since we aren't even a week into the expansion and if 2 - 3 weeks from now the meta is hostile to Jade Druid this card will not be as good and thus all your whining looks premature and senseless. I guess when you are as dead-set on something as you though, this is hardly something to stop you.
No, I didn't. I was clearly stating that since so far only Quests are legendary spells it wouldn't make sense to randomly introduce a new one to the mix when its much easier to nerf it and make it a worse Epic card, but comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte.
Please stop from adding this mandatory (for people like you) BS statements, because it only makes you look stupid when you realize how off the mark your comments are. I understand perfectly well what you are saying, but there are much easier alternatives for Blizzard than your suggestion.
Then please read the following https://hsreplay.net/articles/24/how-good-skulking-geist-275K-plays-analyzed
Actual data is always more accurate than player experience.