Some archetype will be "killed" by this card, but for all the other spells that cost 1 everybody is crying like the fact that the opponent will run THAT card will automatically delete all their chance of winning. Not considering that 1-mana spells can be played before the new card or that the opponent may never draw it in the first place.
People need to chill.
Also, I feel like people are missing the fact that BOTH players 1 drops get destroyed.
I don't see how it is a problem at all. The Geist only matters when either the 1 mana spell is a win condition, as for Jade Druid, or you are playing to fatigue. Otherwise it just thins the deck of cheap, often low value spells.
The hand part is disruptive, and Miracle rogue might have to think carefully about it, but for the most part it is a Gnomeferatu-like fallacy that it matters.
Why is everyone acting like Skulking Geist is a 1 mana / always on starting hand- card?
I included "that also works in the late game" in my original post because of this, because it's actually more likely that a player will have gotten value from their 1 mana spells by the time Skulking Geist is played
It must be impossible to print secrets any more because of Eater of Secrets.
Edit: Insert Sarcasm.
Again, my point is not about reactionary counter prints. It's about limiting design space. Why not solve the issue of Jade Druid by designing a counter for the specific card that makes it oppressive?
That is the exact point everyone is trying to make. It doesn't limit design space. Sure 1 mana spells have a little less value now but they aren't useless. The same way that pirates are still good despite golakka or the way secrets are still good despite Eater. The thing about 1 mana spells is that you essentially have up to 6 turns to just play them. Additionally your opponent also has to draw Skulking Giest, for certain only a 1 of, before you play your 1 mana spells. It's mainly only really effective against a late game Jade strat. Aside from that it doesn't hurt too much.
Also at a certain point of the game most 1 mana spells aren't make or break spells for a deck.
I will say this though, if control (the only place this card is going to really see play) is overly prolific then, at least for this round of meta, it could be annoying to rely on any 1 mana spells. Luckily most decks don't really do that.
honestly, you're not even guaranteed to beat a jade druid if you play this card. it's just a bad tech decision to make, at least eater of secrets and weapon destruction do things the turn they are played
That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying why put a limit on what cards you're able to design at a given time? Solve the issue of Jade Druid by countering what makes it oppressive specifically, not limit design space
They actually free up more design space with this card, not limit it. they are now free to design more broken 1 cost spells than they were before because of this card. That's not a particularly a good idea, but it does give them the option to.
Like always with counter cards like this, the viability depend on their hit rate and how strong a hit is. Which also means that the viability of the cards they hit depend heavily on what other cards they hit in the meta. The new Skulking Geist gives control decks a chance against jade in the late late game, so I expect it to be at least somewhat common after the next expansion. But shortly afterwards, if jade druid is pushed out in favor of other decks, play rates of Skulking Geist will go down, which will once again increase the viability of cards such as shield slam. Of course, it's a cycle. Sometimes such cards will be viable, sometimes not. You'll have to make a meta call on if you wish to run them, however it won't totally invalidate them forever. It will keep them from being oppressive/ubiquitous though.
It literally makes it useless to print any 1 mana spell that also works in the late game for the next year and a half, simply because Skulking Geist will exist. Its great that control now has a counter to Jade, but could there not have been a better way to counter it?
Yep. And it's also useless to print any pirate or murloc card because you only feed crabs. /s
That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying why put a limit on what cards you're able to design at a given time? Solve the issue of Jade Druid by countering what makes it oppressive specifically, not limit design space
I think it's about here where you lost me.
Being a 'tech' card that counters another card TYPE doesn't 'limit design space' because it opens up OTHER avenues for design space - specifically cards that care about being DESTROYED from hand or deck. Imagine there was a 1 mana spell with 'when this card is destroyed from deck or hand, summon a 5/5'. That is new design space.
As for countering what makes it oppressive specifically - why not just design a card that is a tech counter to any further overpowered 1 cost cards they print? Let's say they print this card as only 'jade idols cost 9 more for the rest of the game', but then they want to print ANOTHER problematic 1 cost card, (for example, 1 mana, empty your mana crystals, adapt a minion for each mana crystal emptied), and the community starts complaining about THAT card, then they'd need to print ANOTHER card to counter that one instead of just giving more counter play options to players before that problem card BECOMES a problem.
And remember, this is a tech card, and the way the card is worded is specifically applicable to BOTH players, so it creates an interesting deck building challenge outside of Jade Idol, similar to Hemmet, Jungle Hunter. If you stack a bunch of 1 mana cards with the INTENTION of destroying them, even if it doesn't hit your opponents hand or deck, it's an interesting card to use that expands deck building options.
skulking geist is in no way op, and in no way removes the ability for one mana spells that are good in the late game from being viable. I think that warrior and handbuff paladin will run one ofs of the card in some metas, and the warrior deck that would run skulking geist, would still have a one mana spell in it's deck, because shield slam is really good.
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Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
no one is going to play Skulking Geist past the first two weeks when people are trying new cards
This. Aggro and midrange decks are already favored vs. jade and games are decided before infinite jades anyway. Control decks aren't a big part of the meta and running a 6 mana 4/6 just to soft counter jade idol will reduce your winrate vs. the other 8 classes. Also most druids will just switch to aggro anyway. Jade idol is going to need a nerf in 2-3 months.
The same way Aggro decks became unplayable after Reno?
Yes, exactly. You will just find a few Control decks running it, and most of the times they will be busy playing something more vital to their gameplay.
Reno did really made aggro decks unplayable,which at the time was face hunter!
no one is going to play Skulking Geist past the first two weeks when people are trying new cards
This. Aggro and midrange decks are already favored vs. jade and games are decided before infinite jades anyway. Control decks aren't a big part of the meta and running a 6 mana 4/6 just to soft counter jade idol will reduce your winrate vs. the other 8 classes. Also most druids will just switch to aggro anyway. Jade idol is going to need a nerf in 2-3 months.
You should learn your facts,Control isnt really in the meta because of Jade Druids.Now that they can tech this card in,Control will be a thing again.Every control deck will run 1 copy of it as they have benefits against other decks than druids aswell.So please dont talk stuff you dont know.
Jade Druid was sub 50% win rate on meta data reports. Good players realize jade isn't a problem, therefore won't need this card diluting their decks.
Youre point is moot because this isn't the point. RIP.
The point is people want to play control and can't win. Fuck the ranked win-rate. We know for sure it can't win vs Pirate Warrior and other Aggro variants. "Good players" is what you apparently call the pirate warriors and murloc paladins it seems. You don't know what youre even talking about.
It must be impossible to print secrets any more because of Eater of Secrets.
Edit: Insert Sarcasm.
LOL exactly. People need to quit whining & just deal with it. Everyone overreacting because jades can't just go infinite anymore. Cry me a river.
NO ONE is complaining that jade can't go infinite now. We're complaining because the same card that does that also removes Shield Slam, Raven Idol, Arcane Missiles, Cold Blood, Earthen Scales, Evolve, Flash Heal, Frost Shock, Holy Smite, Ice Lance, Inner Fire, Lightning Bolt, Living Roots, Naturalize, Power Overwhelming, Sinister Strike, Soulfire, Whirlwind, Tracking, Arcane Blast, and more still.
The reason this card is a problem isn't just because it beats jade because no one gives a fuck about that at all and jade had it coming, but because it also beats: Malygos Rogue (Sinister Strike), Malygos Shaman (Frost Shock + Lightning Bolt), Malygos Priest (Holy Smite + Flash Heal), Malygos Mage (Arcane Missiles + Ice Lance), Malygos Druid (Raven Idol + Living Roots), Malygos Warlock (Soulfire is almost always required for the last few points of damage), Inner Fire combo Priest (Inner Fire + Power Word: Shield), OTK Warlock (the one that uses Power Overwhelming + Leeroy + Faceless), OTK Rogue (the one that uses Cold Blood + Leeroy + Shadowstep/Faceless), Embrace the Shadow OTK Priest (Flash Heal), Velen OTK Priest (Holy Smite but this one isn't that big of a deal since they can use Shadow Visions to get 3 copies of Mind Blast).
This card shuts down so many things that are not and never have been overpowered, THAT is why this card is problematic. Personally I'm only upset about it because Malygos Shaman is one of my favorite decks of all time and now I can randomly lose a game because someone teched against a DIFFERENT FUCKING DECK.
So, this is a bit overreactionary. This card makes it hard to win with 1 cost spells that are endgame combos. This does not make all 1 cost spells useless. It may actually help control warrior, would you rather draw a whirlwind or a direhorn matriarch on turn 12 in taunt warrior? Power word shield is good because it is a passthrough with a small benefit, it isn't a huge deal to get it removed from your deck.
Inner fire and jade idol are hurt the most, because those cards are victory condition activators. Maybe evolve too, but with the shaman death knight, that's not a huge deal. Otherwise, it can be a small buff or nerf to decks, but this really encourages faster playing of one cost spells more than anything.
I don't think this card will see much play tbh (maybe in some kind of wacky Molten Giant + Holy Wrath meme deck). I've played a lot of Jade Druid lately and I can safely say that Jade Idol is not the primary win condition (even against control). Your ability as a druid player to snowball the board quickly with Wild Growth and Innervate is.
If you lose against Jade Druid I don't think that including this card will change much. And even if it did, Jade Druid decks would just start to lean more towards the miracle version with Arcane Giants and Yogg. You're far better off including a couple of aggressive stated minions with big butts that Druid has problems removing, than including this.
Against the rest of the field, the card is awful.
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THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!
Seriously, people need to chill out on this card being "OP OP END OF ALL 1 COST SPELLS!"
I don't see how it is a problem at all. The Geist only matters when either the 1 mana spell is a win condition, as for Jade Druid, or you are playing to fatigue. Otherwise it just thins the deck of cheap, often low value spells.
The hand part is disruptive, and Miracle rogue might have to think carefully about it, but for the most part it is a Gnomeferatu-like fallacy that it matters.
honestly, you're not even guaranteed to beat a jade druid if you play this card. it's just a bad tech decision to make, at least eater of secrets and weapon destruction do things the turn they are played
Like always with counter cards like this, the viability depend on their hit rate and how strong a hit is. Which also means that the viability of the cards they hit depend heavily on what other cards they hit in the meta. The new Skulking Geist gives control decks a chance against jade in the late late game, so I expect it to be at least somewhat common after the next expansion. But shortly afterwards, if jade druid is pushed out in favor of other decks, play rates of Skulking Geist will go down, which will once again increase the viability of cards such as shield slam. Of course, it's a cycle. Sometimes such cards will be viable, sometimes not. You'll have to make a meta call on if you wish to run them, however it won't totally invalidate them forever. It will keep them from being oppressive/ubiquitous though.
As for countering what makes it oppressive specifically - why not just design a card that is a tech counter to any further overpowered 1 cost cards they print? Let's say they print this card as only 'jade idols cost 9 more for the rest of the game', but then they want to print ANOTHER problematic 1 cost card, (for example, 1 mana, empty your mana crystals, adapt a minion for each mana crystal emptied), and the community starts complaining about THAT card, then they'd need to print ANOTHER card to counter that one instead of just giving more counter play options to players before that problem card BECOMES a problem.
And remember, this is a tech card, and the way the card is worded is specifically applicable to BOTH players, so it creates an interesting deck building challenge outside of Jade Idol, similar to Hemmet, Jungle Hunter. If you stack a bunch of 1 mana cards with the INTENTION of destroying them, even if it doesn't hit your opponents hand or deck, it's an interesting card to use that expands deck building options.
Take power word shield for example I assume priests will still be more than happy to run it.
#1 you can use it the first 5-6 turns guaranteed.
#2 if you're opponent is playing geist he may not draw it or play it before you play your shield.
#3 if geist is played sure you lose your card but in most cases it's not game changing.
skulking geist is in no way op, and in no way removes the ability for one mana spells that are good in the late game from being viable. I think that warrior and handbuff paladin will run one ofs of the card in some metas, and the warrior deck that would run skulking geist, would still have a one mana spell in it's deck, because shield slam is really good.
Just fill your deck with one drops, that is creative deck design, right?
Jade Druid was sub 50% win rate on meta data reports. Good players realize jade isn't a problem, therefore won't need this card diluting their decks.
Anger is the punishment we give ourselves for someone else's mistake.
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
The point is people want to play control and can't win. Fuck the ranked win-rate. We know for sure it can't win vs Pirate Warrior and other Aggro variants. "Good players" is what you apparently call the pirate warriors and murloc paladins it seems. You don't know what youre even talking about.
I'm here to kick ass and play cards, and I'm all out of ass.
So, this is a bit overreactionary. This card makes it hard to win with 1 cost spells that are endgame combos. This does not make all 1 cost spells useless. It may actually help control warrior, would you rather draw a whirlwind or a direhorn matriarch on turn 12 in taunt warrior? Power word shield is good because it is a passthrough with a small benefit, it isn't a huge deal to get it removed from your deck.
Inner fire and jade idol are hurt the most, because those cards are victory condition activators. Maybe evolve too, but with the shaman death knight, that's not a huge deal. Otherwise, it can be a small buff or nerf to decks, but this really encourages faster playing of one cost spells more than anything.
Honestly, it allows them to print stronger 1-mana spells because there's a potent counter to them already in the game.
I don't think this card will see much play tbh (maybe in some kind of wacky Molten Giant + Holy Wrath meme deck). I've played a lot of Jade Druid lately and I can safely say that Jade Idol is not the primary win condition (even against control). Your ability as a druid player to snowball the board quickly with Wild Growth and Innervate is.
If you lose against Jade Druid I don't think that including this card will change much. And even if it did, Jade Druid decks would just start to lean more towards the miracle version with Arcane Giants and Yogg. You're far better off including a couple of aggressive stated minions with big butts that Druid has problems removing, than including this.
Against the rest of the field, the card is awful.