The drawback for the shade is so much worse and the health is lower, I'm not sure how Team 5 came up with the stats being a 7/7. I think the least they could have done was lower the health, much like the shade. Although in comparison to Earth Elemental, this card has 1 less health and no taunt (which doesn't really matter too much). So maybe it's okay as is, especially with the fair amount of overload, plus it's obviously not too hard to remove.
EDIT: Actually it is a little busted now that I think about it.
Are you really saying that 1 extra health point and taunt are worth 1 more mana and 1 more overload? I don't think so, but the problem is not Earth Elemental obviously, it's Flamewreathed Faceless that at least should have 1 more point of overload (but yeah, I know, with the new additional card to unlock the overloaded mana crystals, that is really not a very big problem, and also there is the synergy with Tunnel Trogg, but at least this 7/7 minion would be better priced in that way).
Edit: ok, you edited your post while I was writing mine and doing other things, LOL. :P
Every single class actually have a counter to this, wich will leave the shaman with 3 mana losing alot of tempo wich can turn the game around for your opponent
I've been playing Warlock Zoo (modified from the top rated variant on hearthpwn) and this card absolutely stops me in my tracks. Can you explain what I should put in my deck to counter it or how I should play around it? I'm still rather new.
Every single class actually have a counter to this, wich will leave the shaman with 3 mana losing alot of tempo wich can turn the game around for your opponent
I've been playing Warlock Zoo (modified from the top rated variant on hearthpwn) and this card absolutely stops me in my tracks. Can you explain what I should put in my deck to counter it or how I should play around it? I'm still rather new.
If you're playing zoo right the 7/7 will hardly be enough to make the shaman beat you.
Every single class actually have a counter to this, wich will leave the shaman with 3 mana losing alot of tempo wich can turn the game around for your opponent
I've been playing Warlock Zoo (modified from the top rated variant on hearthpwn) and this card absolutely stops me in my tracks. Can you explain what I should put in my deck to counter it or how I should play around it? I'm still rather new.
If you're playing zoo right the 7/7 will hardly be enough to make the shaman beat you.
Top notch advice.
Basically you need to buff you smaller minions using Power Overwhelming, Abusive Sergeant, Dire Wolf Alpha and/or Dark Iron Dwarf. Or you can protect your face with Defender of Argus and take it out on the following turn.
The problem isnt as much the stat line, but that the card can be played on curve with the inclusion of totem golem. The number of times i've had turn two totem golem, into two drop into flamewteathed faceless is silly. With mountain giants you could deal with it since the handlock hadn't played a card yet meaning you have a board. With FS they often have the board AND THEN play a turn 4 7/7.....and you can never recover. The card is silly and should be at least nerfed to overload 3.
I think increasing the mana cost to 5 is a better solution. Remember that overload is almost meaningless now with sentinel around. When you compare that to earth elemental, flamewreathed looks much more tame.
This is such a BS argument. You're still paying 2 mana to unlock your crystals, and a 3/2 on turn 5 (+any random three-drop) is hardly going to be very effective.
Well I also don't understand why blizz brought this card into hearthstone. I mean rng based attacks is fine but a 7/7 for 4 mana, even tough you get 2 less mana crystals is way better than anything else. Rember fel reaver in mech shaman who has been played even tough it had a massive drawback? 5 mana 8/8 and lose 3 cards for each card your opponent plays? It it about the stats and the stats are just too high for a 4 mana card. Guess it won't take long to get our first 1 mana 3/4 released :|
It's not about playing shadow word death.. It's about drawing it by turn 3 or 4..
Even if we run two the probability of drawing it so early in the game is low as compared to turn 6 or 7 where a minion of such stats is played.
The chance of you drawing SW:D is just as high as the chance of your opponent drawing Flamewreathed.
Even if you do sw:d it, you just get wrecked by the (at least) 3/3 trogg and totem golem that are still on the board. you literally have to have the perfect anti aggro hand with some classes to answer dr. 1 into dr. 2 into two drop into dr. 4.
Every single class actually have a counter to this, wich will leave the shaman with 3 mana losing alot of tempo wich can turn the game around for your opponent
Nope, there is no early tempo-swing for this... the exception being a coined big game hunter. All those counters require at the very minimum your early round and in many cases 2 cards investment.
The problem with flamewreathed faceless is simply the tempo you get at a point where it's hard to remove. Also it completely uunder-costed. Overload is designed to allow shamans to have a more powerful effect earlier in the curve at the cost of tempo loss next turn and often (not always) a higher total mana over 2 turns.
Look at Feral Spirits for example your getting 2 2/3 taunts, these would normally be something like 4-5 mana worth and the spell works out at 5 mana.
Earth Elemental is a 7/8 Taunt for 8 total mana Druids get an 8/8 for 8. Neither are particularly used but this isn't really the point.
Lightning storm is basically a better consecrate so probably worth 4-5 mana and total cost is 5.
Ancestral Knowlege is essential arcane intellect so 3 mana worth but works out at 4 mana total.
There other examples but all of them have in common that the total mana cost is always towards the top end of the normal value and at best equal to that value. In the past this tempo exchange sometimes hurt shaman mostly because it was hard to line up mana costs not because the mechanic itself was underpowered. And required more forward thinking than other classes . But with Tunnel Trogg, Lava Shock and the New 3/2 Sentinal you ease some of the difficulties (don't read underpowered) of overload.
However for Flamewreathed Faceless you get a 7/7 for 6. This is already above power curve. Fair enough a 7/7 for 6 isn't much to write home about and might not see play if it was a normal card but would be considered powercreep, ok so a class card should be a bit more powerful and if it was a 6 mana 7/7 class card that might be ok but you then throw in the overload mechanic and split the mana cost over 2 turns and make the initial cost 4 mana and you now have hugely strong minion potentially on turn 4 and our first truly undercosted overload minion. That's what makes it OP. Is it game breaking OP? Not sure. Is it OP? Definitely!
The problem with flamewreathed faceless is simply the tempo you get at a point where it's hard to remove. Also it completely uunder-costed. Overload is designed to allow shamans to have a more powerful effect earlier in the curve at the cost of tempo loss next turn and often (not always) a higher total mana over 2 turns.
Look at Feral Spirits for example your getting 2 2/3 taunts, these would normally be something like 4-5 mana worth and the spell works out at 5 mana.
Earth Elemental is a 7/8 Taunt for 8 total mana Druids get an 8/8 for 8. Neither are particularly used but this isn't really the point.
Lightning storm is basically a better consecrate so probably worth 4-5 mana and total cost is 5.
Ancestral Knowlege is essential arcane intellect so 3 mana worth but works out at 4 mana total.
There other examples but all of them have in common that the total mana cost is always towards the top end of the normal value and at best equal to that value. In the past this tempo exchange sometimes hurt shaman mostly because it was hard to line up mana costs not because the mechanic itself was underpowered. And required more forward thinking than other classes . But with Tunnel Trogg, Lava Shock and the New 3/2 Sentinal you ease some of the difficulties (don't read underpowered) of overload.
However for Flamewreathed Faceless you get a 7/7 for 6. This is already above power curve. Fair enough a 7/7 for 6 isn't much to write home about and might not see play if it was a normal card but would be considered powercreep, ok so a class card should be a bit more powerful and if it was a 6 mana 7/7 class card that might be ok but you then throw in the overload mechanic and split the mana cost over 2 turns and make the initial cost 4 mana and you now have hugely strong minion potentially on turn 4 and our first truly undercosted overload minion. That's what makes it OP. Is it game breaking OP? Not sure. Is it OP? Definitely!
Also, the overload will often boost trogg - giving you an additional 2 stats. That should be included in any analysis, since pretty much any aggro shammy is going to mulligan for trogg every game.
Totem Golem has vanilla optimised stats for its total cost (base + overload). Totem Golem is an excellent card. It puts early pressure.
Flamewreathed Faceless has vanilla optimised stats for its total cost (base + overload) + 1 damage. So, Flamewreathed guy would be in line with golem if it was 6/7. The fact is that he also has larger overload than golem, which means that faceless can create pressure much earlier than golem, proportionately. So, even if it was 6/7, it would already be a translated (on curve) improvement of golem.
But it also has +1 dmg. Faceless is NOT broken. Compared with previous existing cards, it IS certainly OP.
Existence of removals in HS is a really poor argument at best. Actually, explaining any card mentioning a countercard is a bad argument.
PS: overload is a strategical mana distribution tool, not just a drawback to equalise mana. Itis an advantage in itself, given you have some strategy in your mind for next turn. Think of it this way: you have two 10/10 cards. One costs (10), the other costs (1)+overload(9) [this is ofc an extreme case]. Which one do you think is the best?
It's not about playing shadow word death.. It's about drawing it by turn 3 or 4..
Even if we run two the probability of drawing it so early in the game is low as compared to turn 6 or 7 where a minion of such stats is played.
The chance of you drawing SW:D is just as high as the chance of your opponent drawing Flamewreathed.
Even if you do sw:d it, you just get wrecked by the (at least) 3/3 trogg and totem golem that are still on the board. you literally have to have the perfect anti aggro hand with some classes to answer dr. 1 into dr. 2 into two drop into dr. 4.
And if the Shaman doesn´t have a good hand, Control will easily wreck it. Welcome to card games.
It's not about playing shadow word death.. It's about drawing it by turn 3 or 4..
Even if we run two the probability of drawing it so early in the game is low as compared to turn 6 or 7 where a minion of such stats is played.
The chance of you drawing SW:D is just as high as the chance of your opponent drawing Flamewreathed.
Even if you do sw:d it, you just get wrecked by the (at least) 3/3 trogg and totem golem that are still on the board. you literally have to have the perfect anti aggro hand with some classes to answer dr. 1 into dr. 2 into two drop into dr. 4.
And if the Shaman doesn´t have a good hand, Control will easily wreck it. Welcome to card games.
Last night i played against this shaman 10 times half smorc half mr, all running Flamewreathed Faceless. in those 10 games the shaman had a "bad" hand twice which yes i was able to win, but even then the Smorc hammer allowed him to get close to killing me. If you want to tell me a control deck that would easily wreck it i'm all ears cause i can tell you for a fact priest or paladin don't. paladin relies on equality or aldor , and priest as you said relies on SW:D so unless you get it by turn 4 your screwed. rouge can slow it down with sap but they will lose too much tempo doing that, warrior relies on execute since you'll rarely have enough armor to shield slam it. Druids are running mulch, an anti tempo card just to answer this minion! mages are probably the best since they might be able to freeze it to death but that is the only reliable way i can think of to answer it.
The problem isnt as much the stat line, but that the card can be played on curve with the inclusion of totem golem. The number of times i've had turn two totem golem, into two drop into flamewteathed faceless is silly. With mountain giants you could deal with it since the handlock hadn't played a card yet meaning you have a board. With FS they often have the board AND THEN play a turn 4 7/7.....and you can never recover. The card is silly and should be at least nerfed to overload 3.
At that point its a worse earth elemental if overload is almost meaningless.
7/5 would be fair imho.
I will crush you!
Well I also don't understand why blizz brought this card into hearthstone. I mean rng based attacks is fine but a 7/7 for 4 mana, even tough you get 2 less mana crystals is way better than anything else. Rember fel reaver in mech shaman who has been played even tough it had a massive drawback? 5 mana 8/8 and lose 3 cards for each card your opponent plays? It it about the stats and the stats are just too high for a 4 mana card. Guess it won't take long to get our first 1 mana 3/4 released :|
Just remember the good times!
The problem with flamewreathed faceless is simply the tempo you get at a point where it's hard to remove. Also it completely uunder-costed. Overload is designed to allow shamans to have a more powerful effect earlier in the curve at the cost of tempo loss next turn and often (not always) a higher total mana over 2 turns.
Look at Feral Spirits for example your getting 2 2/3 taunts, these would normally be something like 4-5 mana worth and the spell works out at 5 mana.
Earth Elemental is a 7/8 Taunt for 8 total mana Druids get an 8/8 for 8. Neither are particularly used but this isn't really the point.
Lightning storm is basically a better consecrate so probably worth 4-5 mana and total cost is 5.
Ancestral Knowlege is essential arcane intellect so 3 mana worth but works out at 4 mana total.
There other examples but all of them have in common that the total mana cost is always towards the top end of the normal value and at best equal to that value. In the past this tempo exchange sometimes hurt shaman mostly because it was hard to line up mana costs not because the mechanic itself was underpowered. And required more forward thinking than other classes . But with Tunnel Trogg, Lava Shock and the New 3/2 Sentinal you ease some of the difficulties (don't read underpowered) of overload.
However for Flamewreathed Faceless you get a 7/7 for 6. This is already above power curve. Fair enough a 7/7 for 6 isn't much to write home about and might not see play if it was a normal card but would be considered powercreep, ok so a class card should be a bit more powerful and if it was a 6 mana 7/7 class card that might be ok but you then throw in the overload mechanic and split the mana cost over 2 turns and make the initial cost 4 mana and you now have hugely strong minion potentially on turn 4 and our first truly undercosted overload minion. That's what makes it OP. Is it game breaking OP? Not sure. Is it OP? Definitely!
Totem Golem has vanilla optimised stats for its total cost (base + overload).
Totem Golem is an excellent card. It puts early pressure.
Flamewreathed Faceless has vanilla optimised stats for its total cost (base + overload) + 1 damage.
So, Flamewreathed guy would be in line with golem if it was 6/7. The fact is that he also has larger overload than golem, which means that faceless can create pressure much earlier than golem, proportionately. So, even if it was 6/7, it would already be a translated (on curve) improvement of golem.
But it also has +1 dmg. Faceless is NOT broken. Compared with previous existing cards, it IS certainly OP.
Existence of removals in HS is a really poor argument at best. Actually, explaining any card mentioning a countercard is a bad argument.
PS: overload is a strategical mana distribution tool, not just a drawback to equalise mana. Itis an advantage in itself, given you have some strategy in your mind for next turn. Think of it this way: you have two 10/10 cards. One costs (10), the other costs (1)+overload(9) [this is ofc an extreme case]. Which one do you think is the best?
I knew this we going to be a problem when lightning was taken out. Very predictable problem for priests. Everyone else can deal with this card easily.
Edit lightbomb