Personally, this has only happened to me like twice, ever. And I've only landed it like once... ever? So I'm not sure what the big deal is.
Now... I cannot for the life of me count on all my fingers and toes how many times somebody had like 2 minions on board, and then hit me with an Alexstrasza from full health and that just feels bad, man.
So maybe a rework on some of the classic cards could be a good idea?
I don't know about you folks, but I tend to keep a cheap removal/silence in my opening hand when facing Rogue. Just in case.
But, then I mostly play control decks, so I usually have something to hold onto. I guess if you deck doesn't have any removal this seems a lot more scary. But, there is quite a bit of silence in the meta right now. So, eh. Even when this does go off it is probably countered half the time.
This is one of the first lessons I learned in Hearthstone. Right after "don't flood your board with low health minions against a Mage going into turn 7".
I don't know if it's technically the right play or if the pros would tell you to mulligan for something different and just accept the loss if they high roll. But it's definitely satisfying to have an answer for it.
It's about the fact that Rogues have been doing essentially the same turn for nearly seven years.
That's just too dang long, and things should change.
And yes, Edwin rather than Shadowstep, since Shadowstep does a lot of different things many of them new and interesting as the sets shift, but Edwin only does one boring thing.
Hey, someone gets it!
You HoF cards not because they're too powerful, but because they've been keeping the meta samey. Was Acolyte of Pain breaking the meta? No, but it was the staple go-to card draw for so many decks for so many years that it's outlived it being interesting in the meta. Same with cards like Molten Giant and Mountain Giant. None of them were overpowered, nor did you face them in every deck, but they were a consistent part of the meta basically since launch, and seeing the same effects be crucial every game in the same way. Do I get stomped by a big Edwin every game against Rogue? No. Often they don't have it, and when they do sometimes I have an answer and then they're out of gas and I win. The thing is that scenario's been happening to me literally since before the game launched, and every game that involves an early big Edwin plays out the same: Either I have a removal in hand and win against an empty hand, or I don't and get stomped. It's run its course, and neither the win nor lose scenario against the card is interesting anymore. Just get rid of it.
It's about the fact that Rogues have been doing essentially the same turn for nearly seven years.
That's just too dang long, and things should change.
And yes, Edwin rather than Shadowstep, since Shadowstep does a lot of different things many of them new and interesting as the sets shift, but Edwin only does one boring thing.
Hey, someone gets it!
You HoF cards not because they're too powerful, but because they've been keeping the meta samey. Was Acolyte of Pain breaking the meta? No, but it was the staple go-to card draw for so many decks for so many years that it's outlived it being interesting in the meta. Same with cards like Molten Giant and Mountain Giant. None of them were overpowered, nor did you face them in every deck, but they were a consistent part of the meta basically since launch, and seeing the same effects be crucial every game in the same way. Do I get stomped by a big Edwin every game against Rogue? No. Often they don't have it, and when they do sometimes I have an answer and then they're out of gas and I win. The thing is that scenario's been happening to me literally since before the game launched, and every game that involves an early big Edwin plays out the same: Either I have a removal in hand and win against an empty hand, or I don't and get stomped. It's run its course, and neither the win nor lose scenario against the card is interesting anymore. Just get rid of it.
Rogue had plenty of metas where Edwin wasnt even used. Yes it was used on game launch in a Miracle deck. but expansions changed Rogue decks. Oil Rogue, Quest Rogue, Galakrond Rogue(which was used there), Odd Rogue(saw some experimentation), Water Rogue, Kingsbane Rogue, Mill Rogue (Wild). When it gets support it shines, same with other cards as well and yes i am quite looking at Auctioner too since Druid can abuse it a lot nowadays and is another one of those cards that limit design space.
Rogue had plenty of metas where Edwin wasnt even used. Yes it was used on game launch in a Miracle deck. but expansions changed Rogue decks. Oil Rogue, Quest Rogue, Galakrond Rogue(which was used there), Odd Rogue(saw some experimentation), Water Rogue, Kingsbane Rogue, Mill Rogue (Wild). When it gets support it shines, same with other cards as well and yes i am quite looking at Auctioner too since Druid can abuse it a lot nowadays and is another one of those cards that limit design space.
Quest Rogue and Maly Rogue are literally only rogue decks ever to not play Edwin. All other rogue decks played Edwin.
It was not used in Kingsbane Rogue at all, you just had Leeching Poison and Kingsbane as wincon. In Odd Rogue it was not optimal. Oil Rogue did rely on Edwin back in the day but that was because we had Conceal + Auctioner but they went with Blade Flurry nerf then. Mill Rogue definitely has no Edwin in there and Water Rogue was basically a menagerie deck. Quite recently we had Weapon Rogue in Scholomance Academy that relied on Self-Sharpening-Sword. Not to mention we also had the Necrium Apothecary Rogue meta for a short time as well.
Edwin is cool, and so is shadowstep. Rogue's identity is as a combo class. It feels bad when the combos work against you, but we've all won many games against Rogue when the combos just didn't come together.
Don't HOF the cards that give a class its identity. There's already a gravity that pulls all the classes into a homogeneous blandness.
Rogue has enough diversity to live without edwin at this point. Feels like this shouldn't be a thing in the first place, it's on the level of aggro druid in wild degeneracy.
It's about the fact that Rogues have been doing essentially the same turn for nearly seven years.
That's just too dang long, and things should change.
And yes, Edwin rather than Shadowstep, since Shadowstep does a lot of different things many of them new and interesting as the sets shift, but Edwin only does one boring thing.
Hey, someone gets it!
You HoF cards not because they're too powerful, but because they've been keeping the meta samey. Was Acolyte of Pain breaking the meta? No, but it was the staple go-to card draw for so many decks for so many years that it's outlived it being interesting in the meta. Same with cards like Molten Giant and Mountain Giant. None of them were overpowered, nor did you face them in every deck, but they were a consistent part of the meta basically since launch, and seeing the same effects be crucial every game in the same way. Do I get stomped by a big Edwin every game against Rogue? No. Often they don't have it, and when they do sometimes I have an answer and then they're out of gas and I win. The thing is that scenario's been happening to me literally since before the game launched, and every game that involves an early big Edwin plays out the same: Either I have a removal in hand and win against an empty hand, or I don't and get stomped. It's run its course, and neither the win nor lose scenario against the card is interesting anymore. Just get rid of it.
Rogue had plenty of metas where Edwin wasnt even used. Yes it was used on game launch in a Miracle deck. but expansions changed Rogue decks. Oil Rogue, Quest Rogue, Galakrond Rogue(which was used there), Odd Rogue(saw some experimentation), Water Rogue, Kingsbane Rogue, Mill Rogue (Wild). When it gets support it shines, same with other cards as well and yes i am quite looking at Auctioner too since Druid can abuse it a lot nowadays and is another one of those cards that limit design space.
Not really. Edwin works in almost everything. You just ram it in your deck, because why not.
It's about the fact that Rogues have been doing essentially the same turn for nearly seven years.
That's just too dang long, and things should change.
And yes, Edwin rather than Shadowstep, since Shadowstep does a lot of different things many of them new and interesting as the sets shift, but Edwin only does one boring thing.
Hey, someone gets it!
You HoF cards not because they're too powerful, but because they've been keeping the meta samey. Was Acolyte of Pain breaking the meta? No, but it was the staple go-to card draw for so many decks for so many years that it's outlived it being interesting in the meta. Same with cards like Molten Giant and Mountain Giant. None of them were overpowered, nor did you face them in every deck, but they were a consistent part of the meta basically since launch, and seeing the same effects be crucial every game in the same way. Do I get stomped by a big Edwin every game against Rogue? No. Often they don't have it, and when they do sometimes I have an answer and then they're out of gas and I win. The thing is that scenario's been happening to me literally since before the game launched, and every game that involves an early big Edwin plays out the same: Either I have a removal in hand and win against an empty hand, or I don't and get stomped. It's run its course, and neither the win nor lose scenario against the card is interesting anymore. Just get rid of it.
Rogue had plenty of metas where Edwin wasnt even used. Yes it was used on game launch in a Miracle deck. but expansions changed Rogue decks. Oil Rogue, Quest Rogue, Galakrond Rogue(which was used there), Odd Rogue(saw some experimentation), Water Rogue, Kingsbane Rogue, Mill Rogue (Wild). When it gets support it shines, same with other cards as well and yes i am quite looking at Auctioner too since Druid can abuse it a lot nowadays and is another one of those cards that limit design space.
There was also plenty of metas where Acolyte of Pain, Mountain Giant and Molten Giant saw no play, and yet they got Hall of Famed, and for good reason. It doesn't have to be a case of Edwin being in every Rogue deck ever (and he's been optimal in far more Rogue decks than not - the fact that we got a reprieve from big Edwins during say, the days of Quest Rogue, doesn't mean he's not a staple of Rogue decks). It has to be that Edwin's a card that's been consistently creating the exact same play scenario since beta and has come up often enough. It's interesting that you bring up Auctioneer as a HoF candidate, since that card's not seen play for ages. That said, I'd be OK with HoFing it too, along with a bunch of other Classic cards. I've played since closed Beta, and as a result there's so many Classic cards that I'm very tired of seeing being central to a game - I just want new scenarios to take the stage, rather than playing the same match I've played a million times for the million and first time.
I mean, in terms of just card design, I'd like for there to be a rotating Classic set where only certain Classic cards are playable in certain metas (this would massively screw F2P players though, so I wouldn't actually want to see it implemented), so you're not going to see me advocating against HoFing much.
This discussion can be held without personal attacks and snide remarks from here on out.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
Alright, so I'll get the ball rolling again.
Edwin bad, shadowstep good?
Or was it shadowstep bad, edwin good?
Personally, this has only happened to me like twice, ever. And I've only landed it like once... ever? So I'm not sure what the big deal is.
Now... I cannot for the life of me count on all my fingers and toes how many times somebody had like 2 minions on board, and then hit me with an Alexstrasza from full health and that just feels bad, man.
So maybe a rework on some of the classic cards could be a good idea?
This is one of the first lessons I learned in Hearthstone. Right after "don't flood your board with low health minions against a Mage going into turn 7".
I don't know if it's technically the right play or if the pros would tell you to mulligan for something different and just accept the loss if they high roll. But it's definitely satisfying to have an answer for it.
Hey, someone gets it!
You HoF cards not because they're too powerful, but because they've been keeping the meta samey. Was Acolyte of Pain breaking the meta? No, but it was the staple go-to card draw for so many decks for so many years that it's outlived it being interesting in the meta. Same with cards like Molten Giant and Mountain Giant. None of them were overpowered, nor did you face them in every deck, but they were a consistent part of the meta basically since launch, and seeing the same effects be crucial every game in the same way. Do I get stomped by a big Edwin every game against Rogue? No. Often they don't have it, and when they do sometimes I have an answer and then they're out of gas and I win. The thing is that scenario's been happening to me literally since before the game launched, and every game that involves an early big Edwin plays out the same: Either I have a removal in hand and win against an empty hand, or I don't and get stomped. It's run its course, and neither the win nor lose scenario against the card is interesting anymore. Just get rid of it.
Rogue had plenty of metas where Edwin wasnt even used. Yes it was used on game launch in a Miracle deck. but expansions changed Rogue decks. Oil Rogue, Quest Rogue, Galakrond Rogue(which was used there), Odd Rogue(saw some experimentation), Water Rogue, Kingsbane Rogue, Mill Rogue (Wild). When it gets support it shines, same with other cards as well and yes i am quite looking at Auctioner too since Druid can abuse it a lot nowadays and is another one of those cards that limit design space.
Quest Rogue and Maly Rogue are literally only rogue decks ever to not play Edwin. All other rogue decks played Edwin.
It was not used in Kingsbane Rogue at all, you just had Leeching Poison and Kingsbane as wincon. In Odd Rogue it was not optimal. Oil Rogue did rely on Edwin back in the day but that was because we had Conceal + Auctioner but they went with Blade Flurry nerf then. Mill Rogue definitely has no Edwin in there and Water Rogue was basically a menagerie deck. Quite recently we had Weapon Rogue in Scholomance Academy that relied on Self-Sharpening-Sword. Not to mention we also had the Necrium Apothecary Rogue meta for a short time as well.
Edwin is cool, and so is shadowstep. Rogue's identity is as a combo class. It feels bad when the combos work against you, but we've all won many games against Rogue when the combos just didn't come together.
Don't HOF the cards that give a class its identity. There's already a gravity that pulls all the classes into a homogeneous blandness.
Rogue has enough diversity to live without edwin at this point. Feels like this shouldn't be a thing in the first place, it's on the level of aggro druid in wild degeneracy.
How often does this happen? rarely
Can it be countered? yes
I am against HoF in general (please bring back Ragnaros the Firelord)
Not really. Edwin works in almost everything. You just ram it in your deck, because why not.
Cap him to 5/5 or 6/6. Problem solved and no need to hof.
There was also plenty of metas where Acolyte of Pain, Mountain Giant and Molten Giant saw no play, and yet they got Hall of Famed, and for good reason. It doesn't have to be a case of Edwin being in every Rogue deck ever (and he's been optimal in far more Rogue decks than not - the fact that we got a reprieve from big Edwins during say, the days of Quest Rogue, doesn't mean he's not a staple of Rogue decks). It has to be that Edwin's a card that's been consistently creating the exact same play scenario since beta and has come up often enough. It's interesting that you bring up Auctioneer as a HoF candidate, since that card's not seen play for ages. That said, I'd be OK with HoFing it too, along with a bunch of other Classic cards. I've played since closed Beta, and as a result there's so many Classic cards that I'm very tired of seeing being central to a game - I just want new scenarios to take the stage, rather than playing the same match I've played a million times for the million and first time.
I mean, in terms of just card design, I'd like for there to be a rotating Classic set where only certain Classic cards are playable in certain metas (this would massively screw F2P players though, so I wouldn't actually want to see it implemented), so you're not going to see me advocating against HoFing much.
well guys this is funny but nobody remembers the turn 2 keleseth > shadowstep > keleseth > shadowstep > keleseth
Should play around
None rogue deck since hs started has played without edwin
Rip..., Concede Button is bottem right
Not this crap again, please. Was it 23 consecutive games with 10+/10+? I bet it was not.
JFYI I do not play this kind of rogue, but I do not like whining. Just play on.
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
THIS!!!
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664
Not bad, but even if, the cap should be 8/8. He is an Giant of the Stonemasons Guild, so this will be appropriate.
EU 11/2015+ , f2p 03/2021+: DK 63 / DH 205 /Dr 277 / Hu 733 / Ma 6666 / Pa 1072 / Pr 1165 / Ro 1791 / Sh 1303 / Wl 707 / Wr 664