Nagas need some serious toning down. This is the third time I've done this today--you pick a tempo hero, rush to 5, and, if you triple and hit the 6-drop, you just win, as every spell gives +4/+4--this includes all of the spells that you automatically play each turn due to the 4-drop. With only one of the 6-drop, any 3 spell creatures, and the end of turn naga, this is a passive 24/24 each turn. With both the 4 and 6 drops golden, it gives you +72/+72 each turn passively, without taking into account the spells themselves.
My first game where I went Naga looked similar to that. They probably do need to be toned down, but I would definitely wait a little while. They are in every game and they are new so people are playing them a lot. High rolls are bound to happen. There are a lot of useless Naga cards too.
Nagas have several cards that you really need to make it work. Tier 2: Lava Lurker; Tier 3: stormscale siren; Tier 4: Wave rider; Tier 5: Glowscale; Tier 6: Tidemistress Athissa. There are a ton of bait cards too, corrupted myrmidon, tide brute, vengeful, snail rider… all bait. The end game is giant started divine shield wind fury. Golden tidemistress with golden stormscale is stupid how powerful it is. You can have a switch spot that you just buy and sell spell minions to proc Althissa, because she is that good. A blood gem gives +1/1 targeted and 4 +1/1 untargeted, or 4 +2/2 untargeted for a golden althissa. Each blood gem gives you 9 in stats, that’s so crazy. But wait, there’s more…. If you have 3 spellcasters, two lavas, tidemistress and stormscale both golden, every turn you get a permanent +72/72 in stats without counting whatever spellcrafts give you. That’s the nuts team, especially if you have wave rider and glowscale as two of your casters, then you have at at least 4 divine shield windfury big stats… nothing else stands a chance.
I actually like the Naga tribe, even though I really, really, miss buddies. But they did make them a bit too powerful. Stormscale siren kind of feels like the star of the show, even though yes, you need the tier 6 nagas to make the tribe actually shine. Now I wouldn't call for a nerf of that card, I actually like the design quite a bit. Probably the biggest issue, for the mode in general, is the naga that gives out divine shields. Not just for nagas, but for it's versatility across the board.
It's really telling that they either didn't playtest nagas and noticed how freakishly powerful they can be with only a couple minions, or that they just didn't do any testing at all and threw the cards at the board. Lava Lurker needs a nerf, Critter Wrangler's too powerful with certain spellcraft spells like Shoal Commander's Mighty Shoal, and yeah Tidemistress is just insanely hard to overcome the second you get 3 or 4 spells each round. Which lets face it is insanely easy to do.
created an acct, theLemming is absolutely right and so is the OP and previous commenters.
Blizzard really needs to read this thread and understand the Frankenstein they've created.
Nothing was wrong with buddies or the previous meta IMO other than Poison Murlocs. Poison just seems such a cheap and easy way to win. So instead they nerfed that and brought uber-powerful stat levelers like the Nagas.
Now instead of every game being "SI 7 or bust" , everybody is chasing Lava Lurkers. Some people are even just holding them in their hands (me) just to keep them out of the circulating pool, they are THAT powerful, and that's something I rarely do (have done the same with SI7 in the past).
Not to say it isn't FUN to play AS the Nagas, but it is certainly not fun to play against them!
I say bring the buddies back (or something like it), it added an extra fun dimension, and removing it makes the game seem more stale now, imho.
I know RNG is a part of the game, but we should try to make every character, every playstyle, and every tribe equally as viable.
created an acct, theLemming is absolutely right and so is the OP and previous commenters.
Blizzard really needs to read this thread and understand the Frankenstein they've created.
Nothing was wrong with buddies or the previous meta IMO other than Poison Murlocs. Poison just seems such a cheap and easy way to win. So instead they nerfed that and brought uber-powerful stat levelers like the Nagas.
Now instead of every game being "SI 7 or bust" , everybody is chasing Lava Lurkers. Some people are even just holding them in their hands (me) just to keep them out of the circulating pool, they are THAT powerful, and that's something I rarely do (have done the same with SI7 in the past).
Not to say it isn't FUN to play AS the Nagas, but it is certainly not fun to play against them!
I say bring the buddies back (or something like it), it added an extra fun dimension, and removing it makes the game seem more stale now, imho.
I know RNG is a part of the game, but we should try to make every character, every playstyle, and every tribe equally as viable.
proof of the pudding... went and played a game right after I wrote this post- to prove a point of how easy it is to collect 1st - even when you're seriously behind with a bad hero.
didn't find a single Naga until I hit Tavern 3 and I found a Lava Lurker, I was severely behind but started collecting Nagas... then I tripled into Athissa... game over.
combined with Siren, it's just auto-stats from there. you can just chill and level, or roll to your heart's content looking for your next naga with no worries.
Battlegrounds mode is currently unplayable. The last time i remember bg in this state was with quilboars release. Same bs. There is literally 0 fun in it right now.
They're a bit crazy but I really think it's just one card causing all the problems, Stormscale Siren. It's a tier 3 charlga on steroids. Without the siren nagas are imo on a level playing ground with other tribes. Tidemistress is really strong, but it's a tier 6 minion and it kinda needs to be since nagas have no permanent stat scaling outside of the 4 drop (I forget the name) and the 2 drop lava lurker.. but when the effect triggers from stormscale siren things just go batshit out of control. In games where I've had a tidemistress but somehow failed to find a siren (usually everyone else going naga..) nothing really gets going and my boards are pretty tame. This one card just scales things way too fast:
Siren + the eyeball 6 drop that discovers a naga = every turn I just gets tons of different nagas in hand, bonus spells for tidemistress and things start tripling faster than brann+primalfin.
Siren + glowscale = automatic divine shield taunt minion which also lets you divine shield something else.
Siren + tidemistress = the biggest problem, out-scales everything else in game, makes minions like charlga, flat-tusk and lightfang look like an absolute joke.
I would also add that lava lurker needs to be pushed up to tier 3, the card is just too strong in the early states of the game and provides a build around from tier 2, sticking until your endgame board because of permanent divine shield. Its stats scale so well if you get a shoal commander on 3 and lets you push to 6 pretty easily with a giant, self-buffing stat stick.
Overall if siren didn't exist nagas would be fine, still way better than quilboar (naga basically feels like every minion is a gemsplitter), but you know, quilboars are just ass anyway.
They're a bit crazy but I really think it's just one card causing all the problems, Stormscale Siren. It's a tier 3 charlga on steroids. Without the siren nagas are imo on a level playing ground with other tribes. Tidemistress is really strong, but it's a tier 6 minion and it kinda needs to be since nagas have no permanent stat scaling outside of the 4 drop (I forget the name) and the 2 drop lava lurker.. but when the effect triggers from stormscale siren things just go batshit out of control. In games where I've had a tidemistress but somehow failed to find a siren (usually everyone else going naga..) nothing really gets going and my boards are pretty tame. This one card just scales things way too fast:
Siren + the eyeball 6 drop that discovers a naga = every turn I just gets tons of different nagas in hand, bonus spells for tidemistress and things start tripling faster than brann+primalfin.
Siren + glowscale = automatic divine shield taunt minion which also lets you divine shield something else.
Siren + tidemistress = the biggest problem, out-scales everything else in game, makes minions like charlga, flat-tusk and lightfang look like an absolute joke.
I would also add that lava lurker needs to be pushed up to tier 3, the card is just too strong in the early states of the game and provides a build around from tier 2, sticking until your endgame board because of permanent divine shield. Its stats scale so well if you get a shoal commander on 3 and lets you push to 6 pretty easily with a giant, self-buffing stat stick.
Overall if siren didn't exist nagas would be fine, still way better than quilboar (naga basically feels like every minion is a gemsplitter), but you know, quilboars are just ass anyway.
This moronic development team is well known to put out overpowered bullshit every time they do something new.
It was the same with elementals, quillboars, etc. They just force us to have the new tribe in every game while knowing full well what the balance issues are. They also know exactly what tweaks everything needs, before releasing the content.
It's simply a f.king business strategy to make people buy more shit, during the period the new content is forced upon the lobbies.
And honestly, i'm sick of it. Not gonna open the game until the first serious round of nerfs. I know, it doesn't matter. I'm not in the target age range for the game. Teens that can't keep their d.ks in their pants and that want everything instantly are.
I'm sure it's consistent with some other hearthstone mechanics, but it really contradicts the wording in the cards themselves. Siren says your minions cast spells, Tidemistress says it procs when you cast a spell. If that distinction were actually drawn in game it would make Nagas significantly more reasonable.
I'm sure it's consistent with some other hearthstone mechanics, but it really contradicts the wording in the cards themselves. Siren says your minions cast spells, Tidemistress says it procs when you cast a spell. If that distinction were actually drawn in game it would make Nagas significantly more reasonable.
I agree with this. If they just make the cards do only what they say they do I think the scaling would be cut in half and things would be manageable. It seems like it wouldn't be Battlegrounds without horribly unintuitive interactions though.
I think they saw this during testing and kept it in to see how other players would use and abuse it to gauge the power level better. Hopefully, they have a good fix for it on Thursday.
Just like every other new tribe introduction they intentionally cause a stir for attention. Then a few weeks later they will dull down the strength so that both sides feel they won and Battlegrounds nets a rise in play.
My advice is to just lean in and go for Naga every game unless something else really presents itself. That way you really learn quickly how it is played and maybe what works with it (like how blood gems are spells). Figure out which Hero's work best for the tribe now, though some will drop off after the coming balance (Tess and Scabbs).
I've only finished 1st once without Naga since launch and that was with a strong Dragon build. I rarely finish out of the top 4. Lean in and learn and watch the meta as it adapts.
After playing awhile, as much as Siren is a problem, and should at least be a higher tier to reduce it's appearance rate. I think the fix is to make Athissa buff only 2 minions. Maybe that's overkill, but going down to 3 minions seems like it wouldn't be enough. I guess it could be 3 OTHER Nagas, maybe.
Not "probably" they defiantly need to be toned down. You can go into literally any lobby and see majority naga, and they usually win too even though everybody is going for them and they shouldn't find units easily.
Well Naga just got nerfed really hard. Will be interesting to see if they can keep top tribe but I doubt it.
Nope, still the top tribe as I thought they'd be with not enough of a nerf, in fact they just announced a further nerf, they will completely remove Siren from the game.
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Nagas need some serious toning down. This is the third time I've done this today--you pick a tempo hero, rush to 5, and, if you triple and hit the 6-drop, you just win, as every spell gives +4/+4--this includes all of the spells that you automatically play each turn due to the 4-drop. With only one of the 6-drop, any 3 spell creatures, and the end of turn naga, this is a passive 24/24 each turn. With both the 4 and 6 drops golden, it gives you +72/+72 each turn passively, without taking into account the spells themselves.
My first game where I went Naga looked similar to that. They probably do need to be toned down, but I would definitely wait a little while. They are in every game and they are new so people are playing them a lot. High rolls are bound to happen. There are a lot of useless Naga cards too.
Nagas have several cards that you really need to make it work. Tier 2: Lava Lurker; Tier 3: stormscale siren; Tier 4: Wave rider; Tier 5: Glowscale; Tier 6: Tidemistress Athissa. There are a ton of bait cards too, corrupted myrmidon, tide brute, vengeful, snail rider… all bait. The end game is giant started divine shield wind fury. Golden tidemistress with golden stormscale is stupid how powerful it is. You can have a switch spot that you just buy and sell spell minions to proc Althissa, because she is that good. A blood gem gives +1/1 targeted and 4 +1/1 untargeted, or 4 +2/2 untargeted for a golden althissa. Each blood gem gives you 9 in stats, that’s so crazy. But wait, there’s more…. If you have 3 spellcasters, two lavas, tidemistress and stormscale both golden, every turn you get a permanent +72/72 in stats without counting whatever spellcrafts give you. That’s the nuts team, especially if you have wave rider and glowscale as two of your casters, then you have at at least 4 divine shield windfury big stats… nothing else stands a chance.
I actually like the Naga tribe, even though I really, really, miss buddies. But they did make them a bit too powerful. Stormscale siren kind of feels like the star of the show, even though yes, you need the tier 6 nagas to make the tribe actually shine. Now I wouldn't call for a nerf of that card, I actually like the design quite a bit. Probably the biggest issue, for the mode in general, is the naga that gives out divine shields. Not just for nagas, but for it's versatility across the board.
It's really telling that they either didn't playtest nagas and noticed how freakishly powerful they can be with only a couple minions, or that they just didn't do any testing at all and threw the cards at the board. Lava Lurker needs a nerf, Critter Wrangler's too powerful with certain spellcraft spells like Shoal Commander's Mighty Shoal, and yeah Tidemistress is just insanely hard to overcome the second you get 3 or 4 spells each round. Which lets face it is insanely easy to do.
created an acct, theLemming is absolutely right and so is the OP and previous commenters.
Blizzard really needs to read this thread and understand the Frankenstein they've created.
Nothing was wrong with buddies or the previous meta IMO other than Poison Murlocs. Poison just seems such a cheap and easy way to win. So instead they nerfed that and brought uber-powerful stat levelers like the Nagas.
Now instead of every game being "SI 7 or bust" , everybody is chasing Lava Lurkers. Some people are even just holding them in their hands (me) just to keep them out of the circulating pool, they are THAT powerful, and that's something I rarely do (have done the same with SI7 in the past).
Not to say it isn't FUN to play AS the Nagas, but it is certainly not fun to play against them!
I say bring the buddies back (or something like it), it added an extra fun dimension, and removing it makes the game seem more stale now, imho.
I know RNG is a part of the game, but we should try to make every character, every playstyle, and every tribe equally as viable.
proof of the pudding... went and played a game right after I wrote this post- to prove a point of how easy it is to collect 1st - even when you're seriously behind with a bad hero.
didn't find a single Naga until I hit Tavern 3 and I found a Lava Lurker, I was severely behind but started collecting Nagas...
then I tripled into Athissa... game over.
combined with Siren, it's just auto-stats from there. you can just chill and level, or roll to your heart's content looking for your next naga with no worries.
update:
turn 10 I face a Naga Queen (don't feel like spelling her name) and I have 29 health. pretty decent, just playing a normal game.
she does 30 damage to me, game over.
Battlegrounds mode is currently unplayable. The last time i remember bg in this state was with quilboars release. Same bs. There is literally 0 fun in it right now.
They're a bit crazy but I really think it's just one card causing all the problems, Stormscale Siren. It's a tier 3 charlga on steroids. Without the siren nagas are imo on a level playing ground with other tribes. Tidemistress is really strong, but it's a tier 6 minion and it kinda needs to be since nagas have no permanent stat scaling outside of the 4 drop (I forget the name) and the 2 drop lava lurker.. but when the effect triggers from stormscale siren things just go batshit out of control. In games where I've had a tidemistress but somehow failed to find a siren (usually everyone else going naga..) nothing really gets going and my boards are pretty tame. This one card just scales things way too fast:
I would also add that lava lurker needs to be pushed up to tier 3, the card is just too strong in the early states of the game and provides a build around from tier 2, sticking until your endgame board because of permanent divine shield. Its stats scale so well if you get a shoal commander on 3 and lets you push to 6 pretty easily with a giant, self-buffing stat stick.
Overall if siren didn't exist nagas would be fine, still way better than quilboar (naga basically feels like every minion is a gemsplitter), but you know, quilboars are just ass anyway.
They're a bit crazy but I really think it's just one card causing all the problems, Stormscale Siren. It's a tier 3 charlga on steroids. Without the siren nagas are imo on a level playing ground with other tribes. Tidemistress is really strong, but it's a tier 6 minion and it kinda needs to be since nagas have no permanent stat scaling outside of the 4 drop (I forget the name) and the 2 drop lava lurker.. but when the effect triggers from stormscale siren things just go batshit out of control. In games where I've had a tidemistress but somehow failed to find a siren (usually everyone else going naga..) nothing really gets going and my boards are pretty tame. This one card just scales things way too fast:
I would also add that lava lurker needs to be pushed up to tier 3, the card is just too strong in the early states of the game and provides a build around from tier 2, sticking until your endgame board because of permanent divine shield. Its stats scale so well if you get a shoal commander on 3 and lets you push to 6 pretty easily with a giant, self-buffing stat stick.
Overall if siren didn't exist nagas would be fine, still way better than quilboar (naga basically feels like every minion is a gemsplitter), but you know, quilboars are just ass anyway.
This moronic development team is well known to put out overpowered bullshit every time they do something new.
It was the same with elementals, quillboars, etc. They just force us to have the new tribe in every game while knowing full well what the balance issues are. They also know exactly what tweaks everything needs, before releasing the content.
It's simply a f.king business strategy to make people buy more shit, during the period the new content is forced upon the lobbies.
And honestly, i'm sick of it. Not gonna open the game until the first serious round of nerfs. I know, it doesn't matter. I'm not in the target age range for the game. Teens that can't keep their d.ks in their pants and that want everything instantly are.
Worst update in battlegrounds history
So, Stormscale Siren procs Tidemistress?
I'm sure it's consistent with some other hearthstone mechanics, but it really contradicts the wording in the cards themselves. Siren says your minions cast spells, Tidemistress says it procs when you cast a spell. If that distinction were actually drawn in game it would make Nagas significantly more reasonable.
I agree with this. If they just make the cards do only what they say they do I think the scaling would be cut in half and things would be manageable. It seems like it wouldn't be Battlegrounds without horribly unintuitive interactions though.
I think they saw this during testing and kept it in to see how other players would use and abuse it to gauge the power level better. Hopefully, they have a good fix for it on Thursday.
Just like every other new tribe introduction they intentionally cause a stir for attention. Then a few weeks later they will dull down the strength so that both sides feel they won and Battlegrounds nets a rise in play.
My advice is to just lean in and go for Naga every game unless something else really presents itself. That way you really learn quickly how it is played and maybe what works with it (like how blood gems are spells). Figure out which Hero's work best for the tribe now, though some will drop off after the coming balance (Tess and Scabbs).
I've only finished 1st once without Naga since launch and that was with a strong Dragon build. I rarely finish out of the top 4. Lean in and learn and watch the meta as it adapts.
After playing awhile, as much as Siren is a problem, and should at least be a higher tier to reduce it's appearance rate. I think the fix is to make Athissa buff only 2 minions. Maybe that's overkill, but going down to 3 minions seems like it wouldn't be enough. I guess it could be 3 OTHER Nagas, maybe.
Well Naga just got nerfed really hard. Will be interesting to see if they can keep top tribe but I doubt it.
Not "probably" they defiantly need to be toned down. You can go into literally any lobby and see majority naga, and they usually win too even though everybody is going for them and they shouldn't find units easily.
Nope, still the top tribe as I thought they'd be with not enough of a nerf, in fact they just announced a further nerf, they will completely remove Siren from the game.