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PremiumYou're right. Don't ask me what I was thinking when I said Brawl or Doomsayer combo would work. Clearly the meds were working when I posted this
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
To: TheAnimaker
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/288013-tgt-aoe-warlock
Would love to see vid of you playing this deck on ladder.
I have been trying to put together a dreadlock deck for the past week, and have not found anything that can survive the current meta. I tried what Savj, and Kripp played, I tried the undertaker version, I tried heavy heals, heavy taunts. With a plethora of fast pallys, tempo mages, face hunters and druids, I have not found a viable dreadsteed deck for the ladder.
I thought I might have found it yesterday, putting in 2 molten giants and 2 def of argus--allowing me to take damage while developing the combo, then taunting giants and healing to start "phase 2" of play with steeds, but trying it on the ladder dropped me from rank 5 to 8.
I honestly don't see how your deck could climb the current meta with a single healbot and no sacrifical pact. Your hellfire, abomination and Baron hit your face also. Have you been playing it on ladder?
Here's my take on it - Volcanic Drakes get good when
1. You're stalling with Doomsayers
2. You have a board full of 1/1s you can kill off.
Agree, unfortunately. I think dreadsteed is a cool concept and great to play when it works, but just not viable on ladder. Been trying different versions for a week. Wish someone would prove me wrong.
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PremiumI said in the beginning that I both was and wasn't complaining. The concept is brilliant. I just hadn't seen it until yesterday.
That being said, I don't know how viable it actually is on Ladder. To me, it seems a lot like a Mill Rogue or a Deathrattle Shaman: awesome when it works, but if you don't get the pieces you need, you're hosed. Against control, you MIGHT get a couple of Dreadsteed out of Baron Rivendare before he gets removed. Druid obviously has Keeper of the Grove to silence Dreadsteed or Baron Rivendare to prevent the board flood. Face Hunter will do Face Hunter things before you can get your setup if you don't start with it (namely Hellfire to swing board control). But against something like Midrange Paladin, it works well (at least against my deck, which just runs the one Ironbeak Owl), especially if they don't know what they're facing (like I didn't yesterday).
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
It might need a few more tools until it is ready. Ok deck right now.
I returned to this game much like how a recovering alcoholic can relapse.
You have to drop the steeds before Rivendare - after you get the four you need Rivendare out of play before you lock your side and cannot add any of your other minions. Its a lot of fun and you can boost the to do massive damage with no loss (i.e.: Power Overwhelming ). With Enhance-o Mechano & Anima Golem it can really shine. It makes for long games, but they get crazy, frustrating but rewarding at the same time. You either win, lose by a hair, or you get annihilated! At least that's how my games have gone. xD
Right. I never had a problem with Patron because of the Hellfires and their lack of silence. Duplicating the Dreadsteed is very difficult before turn 8 when you can drop it with Baron plus a Sacrificial Pact (or two). If you drop Dreadsteed on turn 4 looking to follow it up with Baron/Mortal Coil on turn 5 there is a high chance it gets silenced, hexed, etc. because any decent player knows that's your win condition (with Mal'Ganis who gets BGH immediately).
I've since added some Anima Golems to the deck for a second win condition because I noticed even games where I'd go the distance and have 5 or 6 steeds on the board I wouldn't have enough punch to win since you go to fatigue much quicker than your opponent. It is an insanely fun deck to play - challenging to pilot too - but it is very inconsistent. I'm not even sure what the deck is missing either to become viable.
I don't think the combo is strong enough, especially because there comes a point you basically have to end your own combo by killing your own Rivendare or silencing your steeds with like Wailing Soul or you just lock you board up with 1 Attack minions. 7 damage a turn is still a threat, but as soon as the opponent drops a fat taunt or has more than 8 Attack in play it doesn't matter how much value the steeds are giving, you're just losing the race.
Balancing busted cards version 1.0.
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PremiumOne of the hardest thing about the Dreadlock is determining what kind of Warlock it actually is. Some people play it like Handlock. Some open with it like Zoolock. Another game, it might open like Demonlock. It's just difficult to tell what you're up against, and even harder to determine whether you should save that silence for a Dreadsteed or whether it's better to use it against a Voidcaller[/caller] to keep yourself from facing a turn 4-5 [card]Mal'Ganis.
The one thing I HAVE noticed facing off against so many Dreadlocks yesterday is that they are much more apt to drop removal in the early game. I've started to realize that if you see a turn 2 Darkbomb, a turn 3 Shadowbolt, and/or a turn 4 Hellfire, you're probably up against Dreadlock.
As for your opponents dropping a big fat taunt (@ScaryKoolaid). That doesn't always work. I dropped Tirion Fordring yesterday. My opponent used him to get rid of his own Baron Rivendare, then pinged with 5 Dreadsteed and Mortal Coil, gave me the "thx 4 the fr33 card n00b!" while laughing at my useless Ashbringer while he pinged me in the face with the final Dreadsteed. Once there are 6 on the board, it's hard to do much, especially with the amount of removal (especially AoE removal) the deck brings just in case you start to build a board presence.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
I've found the sweet spot for steeds at 4-5. 6 is ok but only leaves you room to play one minion a turn. I do think that this is a fun ladder deck but not sure it's rank 5 viable (i.e. able to go better than 50%)
That being said I think the deck has not been optimized yet and there's room to improve.
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PremiumI haven't played the deck yet personally (don't have Dreadsteed), but I think you're probably right. There may be times when 6 is beneficial, but those instances I feel like would be rare. With 5, you can at least drop Kel'Thuzad and Mal'Ganis to make your opponent deal with KT before they can remove Mal'Ganis (all the while having 3/3's that never die to deal with as well). With only 4 Dreadsteed on board, you can still drop Lord Jaraxxus and fit in an "INFERNAL!", which puts a LOT more pressure on your opponent than a 5th Dreadsteed.
It's going to be interesting to see. This deck is obviously gaining/returning to popularity with Patron Warrior no longer in existence. It will be fun to see how the deck adapts, and how other decks adapt to it, and whether it actually can become viable above Rank 5 or not.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
Here's my problem with that deck. Baron only has 3 interactions with that deck. And I believe Baron and KT are redudant. You either want to run one or the other. If you're leaning towards a more combo style or aggressive Dreadsteed deck then Baron is better. If you're looking for more of a control style deck then perhaps KT.
But both is just too much. Also, you have 2 shadowflame but no targets to use it on early game in case you need a board clear. IMO this deck would be better off running 2x hellfire since it also has healbots to counter the damage.
Lastly...and I have to ask..sorry...
58% is a decent winrate. But how many games are we talking about for a parsing? And at what rank(s)? I do think 1 or 2 owls is good, but IMO if you aren't worried about other buffs/silence targets and only worried about your steeds getting stolen, then you could run a Light's Champion for 1 more mana and better stats...just a thought :)
I know that man, who said otherwise? I played a lot with Dreadsteed decks when TGT was released, and yeah, it lacks a lot of punch, specially against decks like Freeze Mage and Control Warrior (with Justicar Trueheart the match can be a nightmare). I was just pointing out what Vaellet said about Brawl and Doomsayer + Frost Nova, but it seems that he was just confused.
My experiences with dread steeds....
1. the game is gonna go into fatigue every single time
2. that warlock will go from 4 health to 21 health in a blink of an eye somehow while your board slowly disapears
3. they are not dependent on dreadsteed at all, if you somehow remove the steeds... you're still left with some sort of demon zoolock. This is what bothers me about the deck, the synergies and combos arent that powerful that you wouldnt really miss them. I understand that the deck is in early development though, waiting for the sleeper OP combos to rise cuz the steeds arent very deck defining imo yet.
Agree--I've been running one Anima Golem, which can bait out BGH before Mal'ganis. I've also tried a version where I run 2 molten giants and argus; the idea is to tap and take face damage while setting up steeds, then taunt giants and heal. It works pretty good and gives a second win condition, but again I can't get it consistent enough to win on the ladder.
I was actually went 6-2 on casual with the Drunksteed last night: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/348110-drunksteed-2-0-ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead But just got killed on the ladder (Rank 6 to 8). Getting 2 Thadius is crazy fun, but I would really like to find a dreadlock deck that is more than a gimmick for casual play.
Playing the steeds just feels so close to having a viable deck, I keep thinking I've got one, but then get beat up on ladder. *sigh*
Isn't that kind of good? I mean a deck that has a crazy strong combo, that isn't reliant upon it as a win condition? That reminds me of Patron warrior, where Patron wasn't actually their win condition, but could easily give them the win anyways. Sounds like a pro, not a con, to me.
Completely agree with this. if you want to assure it is not silenced then you need to treat it as a combo. Best one being dropping theDreadsteed and Baron Rivendare then using 2 Sacrificial Pact 's on the Dreadsteeds which would fill your board. So that's a turn 8 play, turn 6 or 7 if you can get Emperor out, but then you need to work on buffing them so they can do anything of substance such as dropping Mal'Ganis.
Overall I don't see how this deck becomes a big part of the new meta