Well yes, the "slight" was a slight bit sarcastic.
Still though, I gave him mage because the fact that I thought Drake was a mage card is owing to serious lack of sleep. Shouldn't post after 2 a.m. Never works out well. And honestly, Mage did manage to put together a really good control deck sans Ice Block in the era of Frost Lich Jaina. Highlander Mage was even a thing prior to the Tortollan nerf. So mage did manage to trudge along without it, even though it was a huge loss.
Now that I'm awake, I could say that Ice Block and Mana Wyrm were big, but the nerf to Hex's cost was also a biggie. Like I say, I can give a little on mage, but Druid and Priest are so beyond anything shaman has had to face. I mean, I remember versions of a Velen / Malygos combo deck being present in almost every single meta out there until not only were Velen, Cleric, Holy Fire, and Auchanei (sp?) ripped out of the set, but for some reason Holy Smite can't even hit face anymore for fear of Malygos being enough. Druid wasn't any one card so much, but the Force of Nature thing plus the mana acceleration nerfs and the Naturalize loss (which wasn't just removal, it also made a lot of mill strategies possible) made it a whole new class.
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I'm sorry, it's been a long time. For some reason I thought azure drake was a mage class card. My Bad.
I'll withdraw mage for consideration, but you're bonkers if you think the shaman nerfs compare to what's been altered in Druid or removed altogether in priest.
priest for good or for bad been change 100%, down the drain are the days of healing circle + soulpriest combos that I always found charming and more copy of whatever the enemy player has in deck or hand which I always despised.
druid been hit hard also I agree, but they still play those ramp cards don't they? it is not like rockbiter / hex / flametounge totem which are no longer played, totem shaman don't even play flametounge. (rip force of nature + savage roar, but that combo was broken)
Shaman has always been a class that’s strongest archetype has been tempo, except for when Shudderwock was first in standard. Even then, the Shudderwock combo decks were never top tier decks, but were still considered absolutely horrible unfun decks to play against, which is why they were nerfed. After that, Shudderwock became a value tool in control decks mostly.
Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Shudderwock Shaman is one of the all time biggest Shaman combo decks in history. It ruled the meta for some time since it was practically unbeatable unless you had the worst draw. Before that (back in the earlier days of Hearthstone) the original Evolve Shaman was also one of the strongest decks that the game had ever seen.
Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Shudderwock Shaman is one of the all time biggest Shaman combo decks in history. It ruled the meta for some time since it was practically unbeatable unless you had the worst draw. Before that (back in the earlier days of Hearthstone) the original Evolve Shaman was also one of the strongest decks that the game had ever seen.
Weren't both those decks tier 2? And that's one combo deck, which was mentioned. Aside from windfury weapon decks, what other combo deck has shaman had? I'm actually asking out of interest.
Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Shudderwock Shaman is one of the all time biggest Shaman combo decks in history. It ruled the meta for some time since it was practically unbeatable unless you had the worst draw. Before that (back in the earlier days of Hearthstone) the original Evolve Shaman was also one of the strongest decks that the game had ever seen.
Weren't both those decks tier 2? And that's one combo deck, which was mentioned. Aside from windfury weapon decks, what other combo deck has shaman had? I'm actually asking out of interest.
I also remember fringe malygos combos in shaman with cards like crackle.
rockbiter+windfury combos were more like finishers in aggro/ midrange decks than otk combos, so I don't really get yepapapepeap's point when he wants combo decks instead of aggro for shaman but mentions these as examples
Rockbiter + Doomhammer was a huge part of the vanilla meta, although to be fair, it still was after the rockbiter nerf at some points.
Yepapa, I will say that when they nerfed Flametongue, you can check my post history . . . I went fucking ballistic. While I still think priest and druid were hurt more overall, I would EASILY give the flametongue nerf the nod for the LEAST needed nerf in the history of the game. I actually looked over the list of all the nerfs ever, and I challenge anyone to show me something that makes less sense in that list.
EDIT: And don't dare @ me with the bullshit about "Even shaman was a problem! It needed to be moved to an odd cost!" That is flat out false, even shaman had fallen into low t2 / high t3 status at that point in the standard meta.
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Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Shudderwock Shaman is one of the all time biggest Shaman combo decks in history. It ruled the meta for some time since it was practically unbeatable unless you had the worst draw. Before that (back in the earlier days of Hearthstone) the original Evolve Shaman was also one of the strongest decks that the game had ever seen.
Weren't both those decks tier 2? And that's one combo deck, which was mentioned. Aside from windfury weapon decks, what other combo deck has shaman had? I'm actually asking out of interest.
The requirement did not specify that a combo deck had to be Tier 1 (though I believe both were, at least for a time before they were nerfed).
Other combo decks include : Malygos Shaman (mentioned above, which is still around) Yogg Shaman Rockbiter Windfury Shaman (again, mentioned above) Mogu Shaman (showcased by Mark McKz) Original Quest Shaman (how can we forget the obscene 24 damage burst of this deck?)
Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Shudderwock Shaman is one of the all time biggest Shaman combo decks in history. It ruled the meta for some time since it was practically unbeatable unless you had the worst draw. Before that (back in the earlier days of Hearthstone) the original Evolve Shaman was also one of the strongest decks that the game had ever seen.
Weren't both those decks tier 2? And that's one combo deck, which was mentioned. Aside from windfury weapon decks, what other combo deck has shaman had? I'm actually asking out of interest.
The requirement did not specify that a combo deck had to be Tier 1 (though I believe both were, at least for a time before they were nerfed).
Other combo decks include : Malygos Shaman (mentioned above, which is still around) Yogg Shaman Rockbiter Windfury Shaman (again, mentioned above) Mogu Shaman (showcased by Mark McKz) Original Quest Shaman (how can we forget the obscene 24 damage burst of this deck?)
Yeah I don't really think of shaman as primarily a combo class, sorry. I certainly wouldn't classify evolve shaman as a combo deck. I can kind of see the quest one I guess, but still, doesn't make it primarily a combo class.
The requirement did not specify that a combo deck had to be Tier 1 (though I believe both were, at least for a time before they were nerfed).
Other combo decks include : Malygos Shaman (mentioned above, which is still around) Yogg Shaman Rockbiter Windfury Shaman (again, mentioned above) Mogu Shaman (showcased by Mark McKz) Original Quest Shaman (how can we forget the obscene 24 damage burst of this deck?)
Yeah I don't really think of shaman as primarily a combo class, sorry. I certainly wouldn't classify evolve shaman as a combo deck. I can kind of see the quest one I guess, but still, doesn't make it primarily a combo class.
It kind of feels like you are constantly shifting the goal posts a little here. There are no classes in the game that are primarilycombo classes. But all the classes have (or have had) good combo decks available to them. Even Hunter has access to combos (such as pulling big beasts out with Charge for a finisher - I have been running one such deck in this very expansion with a good amount of success). So, I'm a little at a loss as to what you are expecting here? The list above is of combo decks for Shaman. What else were you wanting to see?
The requirement did not specify that a combo deck had to be Tier 1 (though I believe both were, at least for a time before they were nerfed).
Other combo decks include : Malygos Shaman (mentioned above, which is still around) Yogg Shaman Rockbiter Windfury Shaman (again, mentioned above) Mogu Shaman (showcased by Mark McKz) Original Quest Shaman (how can we forget the obscene 24 damage burst of this deck?)
Yeah I don't really think of shaman as primarily a combo class, sorry. I certainly wouldn't classify evolve shaman as a combo deck. I can kind of see the quest one I guess, but still, doesn't make it primarily a combo class.
It kind of feels like you are constantly shifting the goal posts a little here. There are no classes in the game that are primarilycombo classes. But all the classes have (or have had) good combo decks available to them. Even Hunter has access to combos (such as pulling big beasts out with Charge for a finisher - I have been running one such deck in this very expansion with a good amount of success). So, I'm a little at a loss as to what you are expecting here? The list above is of combo decks for Shaman. What else were you wanting to see?
My bad, I thought you were defending the OP's assertion that shaman is designed to be a combo class, which I don't think is true.
Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Shudderwock Shaman is one of the all time biggest Shaman combo decks in history. It ruled the meta for some time since it was practically unbeatable unless you had the worst draw. Before that (back in the earlier days of Hearthstone) the original Evolve Shaman was also one of the strongest decks that the game had ever seen.
Weren't both those decks tier 2? And that's one combo deck, which was mentioned. Aside from windfury weapon decks, what other combo deck has shaman had? I'm actually asking out of interest.
The requirement did not specify that a combo deck had to be Tier 1 (though I believe both were, at least for a time before they were nerfed).
Other combo decks include : Malygos Shaman (mentioned above, which is still around) Yogg Shaman Rockbiter Windfury Shaman (again, mentioned above) Mogu Shaman (showcased by Mark McKz) Original Quest Shaman (how can we forget the obscene 24 damage burst of this deck?)
It’s interesting what you consider to be a combo deck though. Just because cards have synergy doesn’t make them a combo deck imo. A combo deck by my definition is a deck that works towards playing a specific certain combination of cards in order to perform a guaranteed game winning play.
Malygos Shaman... ok, fair enough. But it’s hardly like the deck has ever been in the meta.
Yogg Shaman isn’t a true combo deck imo. It’s just a control deck that has a win condition. (A bad one)
Rockbiter Windfury Shaman... ok, closer than Yogg Shaman for sure, but still would argue that it was a burn deck. It could definitely deal a lot of damage in a single turn though... but I don’t consider it a true traditional combo deck.
I’m not sure what Mogu Shaman is.
And Original Quest Shaman was just a variation of Shudderwock Shaman no?
And Evolve shaman is a tempo deck and nothing more. Again... just because cards synergise with each other, doesn’t make it a combo deck. It’s a deck that can highroll, admittedly.
Maybe it’s just me... and maybe I’m wrong... but that’s what I define a combo deck to be. Hadronox Druid, Mecha’thun decks, Exodia Paladin/Mage, Holy Wrath Paladin... decks like these.
Actually, interestingly enough... there is actually the Corrupted Combo deck in Shaman now that hasn’t been mentioned. Guess that kind of proves me wrong. But in that case OP should stop whining because he has the combo deck he so desires. 😂
Also, in response to no classes being dedicated Combo classes, I would argue that the old version of Priest was before they completely changed the cards around.
A lot of the best Priest decks have been combo decks... (Highlander Priest, all the different Prophet Velen decks, Inner Fire Priest, Mecha’thun, Nomi Priest... etc)
Also, in response to no classes being dedicated Combo classes, I would argue that the old version of Priest was before they completely changed the cards around.
A lot of the best Priest decks have been combo decks... (Highlander Priest, all the different Prophet Velen decks, Inner Fire Priest, Mecha’thun, Nomi Priest... etc)
I've always thought druid is probably the closest to being mostly a combo class, but I can see the priest thing.
reason why shaman is a combo class by design, there is an argument for tempo aswell I agree but the tempo is based around combo's, anyways nothing is black and white, other than my opinions ofc
shaman is a class based around explosive power turns, these turns are often set up over time with cards such as Far Sight more than that, the cards in question are often worth very little without each other to activates their full power, think mechanic cards and the target cards primarily in these sets... don't agree and think it is tempo? sure buddy, when was the last time you saw a Desert Hare in any other tempo deck? or Derailed Coaster for that matter. when was the last time you even saw a revole shaman (/spit) attack with Boggspine Knuckles without minions on the board (if not in dire need or close to lethal ofc)
what I think confuses people is that revole shaman (/spit) is half tempo / half combo (imo) and that is what makes it so deadly. Cards like Inara StormcrashStormstrikeLightning Bloom are examples of what I would call tempo cards
this is as close as you guys will get me to write a wall of text so I hope you guys are happy with it
reason why shaman is a combo class by design, there is an argument for tempo aswell I agree but the tempo is based around combo's, anyways nothing is black and white, other than my opinions ofc
shaman is a class based around explosive power turns, these turns are often set up over time with cards such as Far Sight more than that, the cards in question are often worth very little without each other to activates their full power, think mechanic cards and the target cards primarily in these sets... don't agree and think it is tempo? sure buddy, when was the last time you saw a Desert Hare in any other tempo deck? or Derailed Coaster for that matter. when was the last time you even saw a revole shaman (/spit) attack with Boggspine Knuckles without minions on the board (if not in dire need or close to lethal ofc)
what I think confuses people is that revole shaman (/spit) is half tempo / half combo (imo) and that is what makes it so deadly. Cards like Inara StormcrashStormstrikeLightning Bloom are examples of what I would call tempo cards
this is as close as you guys will get me to write a wall of text so I hope you guys are happy with it
It's a big tempo / swing turn play, it's not a combo. That's like saying that paladin decks with level up and silver hand generation are combo decks. If I had to peg a deck that is closer to combo that revolves around tokens it would be druids dropping tokens and giving soul of the forest to set up assured lethal (which doesn't always work if there's a double clear, mass silence etc). Obviously shaman can lethal you next turn with their board but there is still possible counterplay.
Well yes, the "slight" was a slight bit sarcastic.
Still though, I gave him mage because the fact that I thought Drake was a mage card is owing to serious lack of sleep. Shouldn't post after 2 a.m. Never works out well. And honestly, Mage did manage to put together a really good control deck sans Ice Block in the era of Frost Lich Jaina. Highlander Mage was even a thing prior to the Tortollan nerf. So mage did manage to trudge along without it, even though it was a huge loss.
Now that I'm awake, I could say that Ice Block and Mana Wyrm were big, but the nerf to Hex's cost was also a biggie. Like I say, I can give a little on mage, but Druid and Priest are so beyond anything shaman has had to face. I mean, I remember versions of a Velen / Malygos combo deck being present in almost every single meta out there until not only were Velen, Cleric, Holy Fire, and Auchanei (sp?) ripped out of the set, but for some reason Holy Smite can't even hit face anymore for fear of Malygos being enough. Druid wasn't any one card so much, but the Force of Nature thing plus the mana acceleration nerfs and the Naturalize loss (which wasn't just removal, it also made a lot of mill strategies possible) made it a whole new class.
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priest for good or for bad been change 100%, down the drain are the days of healing circle + soulpriest combos that I always found charming and more copy of whatever the enemy player has in deck or hand which I always despised.
druid been hit hard also I agree, but they still play those ramp cards don't they? it is not like rockbiter / hex / flametounge totem which are no longer played, totem shaman don't even play flametounge. (rip force of nature + savage roar, but that combo was broken)
Evolve Shaman is tier 1 right now on HSreplay.
Shaman has always been a class that’s strongest archetype has been tempo, except for when Shudderwock was first in standard. Even then, the Shudderwock combo decks were never top tier decks, but were still considered absolutely horrible unfun decks to play against, which is why they were nerfed. After that, Shudderwock became a value tool in control decks mostly.
Please... tell me another ‘combo’ deck shaman has ever had. The top decks I ever remember in Standard have always been Galakrond Shaman (midrange), Evolve Shaman (Highroll Tempo) and the aggro and midrange Tunnel Trogg Shamans from the Pirate Warrior meta.
Shudderwock Shaman is one of the all time biggest Shaman combo decks in history. It ruled the meta for some time since it was practically unbeatable unless you had the worst draw.
Before that (back in the earlier days of Hearthstone) the original Evolve Shaman was also one of the strongest decks that the game had ever seen.
Weren't both those decks tier 2? And that's one combo deck, which was mentioned. Aside from windfury weapon decks, what other combo deck has shaman had? I'm actually asking out of interest.
I also remember fringe malygos combos in shaman with cards like crackle.
rockbiter+windfury combos were more like finishers in aggro/ midrange decks than otk combos, so I don't really get yepapapepeap's point when he wants combo decks instead of aggro for shaman but mentions these as examples
Rockbiter + Doomhammer was a huge part of the vanilla meta, although to be fair, it still was after the rockbiter nerf at some points.
Yepapa, I will say that when they nerfed Flametongue, you can check my post history . . . I went fucking ballistic. While I still think priest and druid were hurt more overall, I would EASILY give the flametongue nerf the nod for the LEAST needed nerf in the history of the game. I actually looked over the list of all the nerfs ever, and I challenge anyone to show me something that makes less sense in that list.
EDIT: And don't dare @ me with the bullshit about "Even shaman was a problem! It needed to be moved to an odd cost!" That is flat out false, even shaman had fallen into low t2 / high t3 status at that point in the standard meta.
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My PEOPLE thrive in Wild ! Also learn to play the Wicked Witchdoctor it will serve you ALL Well who seek Entrance into the Earthen Ring! :)
The requirement did not specify that a combo deck had to be Tier 1 (though I believe both were, at least for a time before they were nerfed).
Other combo decks include :
Malygos Shaman (mentioned above, which is still around)
Yogg Shaman
Rockbiter Windfury Shaman (again, mentioned above)
Mogu Shaman (showcased by Mark McKz)
Original Quest Shaman (how can we forget the obscene 24 damage burst of this deck?)
Yeah I don't really think of shaman as primarily a combo class, sorry. I certainly wouldn't classify evolve shaman as a combo deck. I can kind of see the quest one I guess, but still, doesn't make it primarily a combo class.
It kind of feels like you are constantly shifting the goal posts a little here. There are no classes in the game that are primarily combo classes. But all the classes have (or have had) good combo decks available to them.
Even Hunter has access to combos (such as pulling big beasts out with Charge for a finisher - I have been running one such deck in this very expansion with a good amount of success).
So, I'm a little at a loss as to what you are expecting here? The list above is of combo decks for Shaman. What else were you wanting to see?
My bad, I thought you were defending the OP's assertion that shaman is designed to be a combo class, which I don't think is true.
Oh right. No, it's definitely not designed to be a combo class first and foremost, no. :-)
It’s interesting what you consider to be a combo deck though. Just because cards have synergy doesn’t make them a combo deck imo. A combo deck by my definition is a deck that works towards playing a specific certain combination of cards in order to perform a guaranteed game winning play.
Malygos Shaman... ok, fair enough. But it’s hardly like the deck has ever been in the meta.
Yogg Shaman isn’t a true combo deck imo. It’s just a control deck that has a win condition. (A bad one)
Rockbiter Windfury Shaman... ok, closer than Yogg Shaman for sure, but still would argue that it was a burn deck. It could definitely deal a lot of damage in a single turn though... but I don’t consider it a true traditional combo deck.
I’m not sure what Mogu Shaman is.
And Original Quest Shaman was just a variation of Shudderwock Shaman no?
And Evolve shaman is a tempo deck and nothing more. Again... just because cards synergise with each other, doesn’t make it a combo deck. It’s a deck that can highroll, admittedly.
Maybe it’s just me... and maybe I’m wrong... but that’s what I define a combo deck to be. Hadronox Druid, Mecha’thun decks, Exodia Paladin/Mage, Holy Wrath Paladin... decks like these.
Actually, interestingly enough... there is actually the Corrupted Combo deck in Shaman now that hasn’t been mentioned. Guess that kind of proves me wrong. But in that case OP should stop whining because he has the combo deck he so desires. 😂
Also, in response to no classes being dedicated Combo classes, I would argue that the old version of Priest was before they completely changed the cards around.
A lot of the best Priest decks have been combo decks... (Highlander Priest, all the different Prophet Velen decks, Inner Fire Priest, Mecha’thun, Nomi Priest... etc)
Evolve shaman rank 1 i dont think it sucks
I've always thought druid is probably the closest to being mostly a combo class, but I can see the priest thing.
didntreadallwhinejustanswered:
dude? if you dont are lucky to draw two counter cards, you are so fucking lost against shaman. and you STILL are whining? PATHETIC!
reason why shaman is a combo class by design, there is an argument for tempo aswell I agree but the tempo is based around combo's, anyways nothing is black and white, other than my opinions ofc
shaman is a class based around explosive power turns, these turns are often set up over time with cards such as Far Sight more than that, the cards in question are often worth very little without each other to activates their full power, think mechanic cards and the target cards primarily in these sets... don't agree and think it is tempo? sure buddy, when was the last time you saw a Desert Hare in any other tempo deck? or Derailed Coaster for that matter.
when was the last time you even saw a revole shaman (/spit) attack with Boggspine Knuckles without minions on the board (if not in dire need or close to lethal ofc)
what I think confuses people is that revole shaman (/spit) is half tempo / half combo (imo) and that is what makes it so deadly. Cards like Inara Stormcrash Stormstrike Lightning Bloom are examples of what I would call tempo cards
this is as close as you guys will get me to write a wall of text so I hope you guys are happy with it
It's a big tempo / swing turn play, it's not a combo. That's like saying that paladin decks with level up and silver hand generation are combo decks. If I had to peg a deck that is closer to combo that revolves around tokens it would be druids dropping tokens and giving soul of the forest to set up assured lethal (which doesn't always work if there's a double clear, mass silence etc). Obviously shaman can lethal you next turn with their board but there is still possible counterplay.