This has gone through quite many revisions now and I had decent success with the previous one that was running Muster + Quartermaster, however, I ended removing them to get more space for tech and gave Argent Lance a chance, which works pretty well actually. I wonder if Seal of Light is worth considering with the Lance, or Blessing of Kings/Seal of Champions with EtC. Alternatively, Argent Lance can be cut for Coghammer and some 3/2s, but other than Ooze, I there's aren't any decent picks for this deck. Knife Juggler is okay but it's hardly as good as in a deck with Muster. Gamblerding might be the real new archetype, though Knife Juggler would be a good fit again then.
Only difference between this and my build is -2 Argent Lance and -1 Tuskarr Jouster for +1 Coghammer (so many great bodies to use its effect on!), +1 B. Technician (the deck needs 2 solid 3-drop imo) and +1 Zombie Chow (you ALWAYS want to go for late game, getting Zombie Chow early often ensures that). Looks really good imo, not often you can make a great control deck w/o BGH targets.
Dont have all the cards yet so i cant test the completed deck, but im skeptical about Tuskarr Jouster, how has it been working for you? Is it worth it as a 1-off? I feel like people are underestimating its drawback against control decks. Another card i want to test is Gadgetzan Jouster instead of Zombie Chow, but it seems even more risky than Tuskarr..
Tuskarr Jouster has been great, because that 5/5 is actually quite the threat (because you have so many of them) and you usually just play it on turn 5 with this deck. I like two to have a higher chance of heal+higher mana curve+more bigger bodies. The reason why I'm not too much bother with the heal in these types of paladin decks is the earlier taunt with Twilight Drake, Lay of Hands, Tirion and such. Hunters have just been conceding when I played Tuskarr. You end up with multiple 5/5s on the board that you didn't need to hold back for tech or as answer which is great.
For the past few seasons, my midrange Paladin has always been using just one Zombie Chow and it worked fine for me, I'd try to avoid 2 because they actually ruin the jousts the most for me sometimes, but one Argent Lance can be removed for a Chow I guess. It's up to personal preference. I'm also only using one Technician because with 2 Aldor, you usually don't hold back playing one if there are early game threats. I still sometimes end up on turn 4 with just 1 Twilight Guardian, so being on turn 3 with no dragon isn't so uncommon, I also don't a 3/5 really helps much at this point.
The reason why I went for Lance instead of Coghammer is to possibly deal 3-4 damage on turn 2 or three. Paladin kind of struggles with that and especially gets punished by a turn 1 Northshire Cleric and stuff like that. The Lance is still barely helping in those cases, but I found it effective to deal with the early game. Coghammer is a little slower and needs a minion on the board as well. Though Coghammer is decent too and helps with mid/late game. Or with 2 Zombie Chow in the deck. So yeah, running two Zombie is the best with Coghammer in my opinion but for Argent Lance I'll run one for now and see how well it goes. I just might ending up going the Chow/Coghammer router as well because I played like that in my older dragon deck (tempted to use Argent Protector too then lol). So -2 Lance +1 Chow +1Coghammer probably.
I am considering one Seal of Light for one Argent Lance though simply for the same reason I am running Lance in the first place. But it seems two that I would need at least 2 one either of them to make it work.
This seems the type of deck that could make Gadetgetzan Jouster work but it's so much worse losing the joust with it than with Tuskarr, so I'd rather not. I think you have to use that one in a deck with buff and more damage/removal/weapons to back it up if it fails. Still should have been a 1/3 at least with just the attack bonus with joust.
Im also very inclined to drop a Corruptor and 1 Tuskarr for 2 Murloc Knight hehe, that minion is a win condition on its own and puts so much pressure is just insane! It may not fit the theme of the deck but it doesnt go against it either.
Im also very inclined to drop a Corruptor and 1 Tuskarr for 2 Murloc Knight hehe, that minion is a win condition on its own and puts so much pressure is just insane! It may not fit the theme of the deck but it doesnt go against it either.
Same but I'm using another variant for that. Any of the double 5-drop can be reduced to 1 for a second Murloc Knight, but the Knight is essentially a 6 drop and can sometimes hav subpar results so I prefer one for consistency. I like this variant because Justicar, Quartermaster, and Murloc Knight are also good comeback mechanics after Chillmaw goes off. I think the reason why the Murloc Knights works so well right now is because the meta is all over the place.
But it's true. With the other variant in my first post, your changes can be a pretty valid choice, and I might just remove the Corruptor for one Murloc Knight at least. But this deck is kind of anti-patron oriented and Murloc Knight is counter productive while Corruptor might help in some cases... (who am I kidding tho)
My biggest question is whether to leave Coghammer be or replace it for Sylvanas, 1 against aggro, the other against control. Thats a meta call, so it remains to be seen. If the meta slows down, i will also replace Zombie Chow for Gadgetzan Jouster, since Sylvanas increases my chances of winning jousts.
If the meta remains fast i think its also better to run Alexstrasza instead of Ysera, cuz getting that heal or damage on turn 7 will be better than the slow value ysera provides. In that case id also run Nefarian instead of Chromaggus for instant value and another bgh target, what you think?
Alex as heal in Paladin is a bit tricky because in the scenario you're using her, you'd be below 10 health, probably because of the aggro board state. Then you play Alex on 7,8, or 9 and with nothing else, and that aggro can just do that damage again. It can work but especially face hunter can easily do 15 damage (granted it's unlikely so late in the game). My previous Dragon Paladin had Nefarian but I figured he was too random, certainly work better with two BGH targets in the deck but Boom just seems better then. I did have decks with just 5 dragons (2 Consort, 2 Azure, 1 Legendary) and it was okay enough, so you can even just one legendary (you'd still have 7 dragons in your deck). I just handle Chromaggus and Ysera as big annoying creatures with card draw for late game, it's the safe version. Alex and Nefarian would be slightly more aggressive but also a bit risky. Ysera has the upside of handing you dragons to your hand, and you can combo Ysera Awakens with Lay on Hands.
Sylvanas instead of Coghammer is completely fine, but you might even get away with removing BGH instead, since Sylvanas has a similar function and Equality and Aldor can deal with big targets effectively already (I also like Truesilver+Corruptor). That way you'd at least get rid of another card sitting on your hand forever. Old versions of Paladin didn't really have many threats to compete with big stuff which is why everyone did run BGH, but now you can kinda get away without one (or use 2 Equality). Justicar is completely valid too then (especially with Murloc Knight, since you can wipe the board multiple times and just flood it again or use tokens with Equality.
In your current deck, I would keep the Coghammer because your good in early, mid and lategame with it. I'd probably remove something else for 6 drop or tech card.
So many options...
I really don't like Gadgetzan Jouster though, even against control, Zombie Chow enables you early board presence. The Jouster seems almost like a waste of space then. Chow's 5 heal isn't really big of a deal in Paladin decks (unless you run Alex I guess).
Really? I was actually thinking the opposite, its better to play Alex if i run 2 Zombie Chow cuz that heal is not gonna bother me when i can just set my opponent's health to 15 later on anyways, but i guess the deck is too agressive thanks to murloc knight, so using Alex offensively would be rare.
Updated the deck: -BGH, - Ysera, - Chillmaw for + Sylvanas, + Dr. Boom n + Nefarian. Dont have Chillmaw nor Ysera and i prefer to play more agressively anyways, so this kinda works better for me. Also seems counter productive to play Mkight with Chillmaw, if patron becomes an issue ill craft Chillmaw and replace murloc with shredder.
Really? I was actually thinking the opposite, its better to play Alex if i run 2 Zombie Chow cuz that heal is not gonna bother me when i can just set my opponent's health to 15 later on anyways, but i guess the deck is too agressive thanks to murloc knight, so using Alex offensively would be rare.
Updated the deck: -BGH, - Ysera, - Chillmaw for + Sylvanas, + Dr. Boom n + Nefarian. Dont have Chillmaw nor Ysera and i prefer to play more agressively anyways, so this kinda works better for me. Also seems counter productive to play Mkight with Chillmaw, if patron becomes an issue ill craft Chillmaw and replace murloc with shredder.
Well you do have control over when to play Murloc Knight and Chillmaw, or even when or if Chillmaw explodes. The great thing about the Knight is that you can flood the board so fast after wiping the board, but I only use that variant with Justicar. For the same reason.
I wonder if Enter the Coliseum is worth it with Sylvanas, but I guess you'd need Emperor to combo it.
This old now but Keeper of Uldaman and Brann were perfect fits. Keeper replaces BGH basically but also allows for guy synergy. Can also be used on Sylvanas to kill her off more easily if needed. Brann isn't really needed but well, double buffs (turn 10 double guy hero power+Brann+Quartermaster...). Other than that he just doubles the Joust (or Healbot but I prefer the body), double Consort effect (?) but that's mostly it. This isn't much different from midrange Paladin now except that Dragon Consort allows for some crazy turns sometimes. Chromaggus isn't really needed but turn 6 Chrom is fine. Could be replaced with Boom but that's a BGH target then or a Guardian of Kings for Brann value. He can just be replaced by Coghammer or a buff/silence and then this is just a midrange Paladin but with some dragons. Azure is actually kind of redundant and one could be removed for a Quartermaser or Jouster but then getting the Twilight dude off my be a bit more difficult.
This has gone through quite many revisions now and I had decent success with the previous one that was running Muster + Quartermaster, however, I ended removing them to get more space for tech and gave Argent Lance a chance, which works pretty well actually. I wonder if Seal of Light is worth considering with the Lance, or Blessing of Kings/Seal of Champions with EtC. Alternatively, Argent Lance can be cut for Coghammer and some 3/2s, but other than Ooze, I there's aren't any decent picks for this deck. Knife Juggler is okay but it's hardly as good as in a deck with Muster. Gamblerding might be the real new archetype, though Knife Juggler would be a good fit again then.Only difference between this and my build is -2 Argent Lance and -1 Tuskarr Jouster for +1 Coghammer (so many great bodies to use its effect on!), +1 B. Technician (the deck needs 2 solid 3-drop imo) and +1 Zombie Chow (you ALWAYS want to go for late game, getting Zombie Chow early often ensures that). Looks really good imo, not often you can make a great control deck w/o BGH targets.
Dont have all the cards yet so i cant test the completed deck, but im skeptical about Tuskarr Jouster, how has it been working for you? Is it worth it as a 1-off? I feel like people are underestimating its drawback against control decks. Another card i want to test is Gadgetzan Jouster instead of Zombie Chow, but it seems even more risky than Tuskarr..
Tuskarr Jouster has been great, because that 5/5 is actually quite the threat (because you have so many of them) and you usually just play it on turn 5 with this deck. I like two to have a higher chance of heal+higher mana curve+more bigger bodies. The reason why I'm not too much bother with the heal in these types of paladin decks is the earlier taunt with Twilight Drake, Lay of Hands, Tirion and such. Hunters have just been conceding when I played Tuskarr. You end up with multiple 5/5s on the board that you didn't need to hold back for tech or as answer which is great.
For the past few seasons, my midrange Paladin has always been using just one Zombie Chow and it worked fine for me, I'd try to avoid 2 because they actually ruin the jousts the most for me sometimes, but one Argent Lance can be removed for a Chow I guess. It's up to personal preference. I'm also only using one Technician because with 2 Aldor, you usually don't hold back playing one if there are early game threats. I still sometimes end up on turn 4 with just 1 Twilight Guardian, so being on turn 3 with no dragon isn't so uncommon, I also don't a 3/5 really helps much at this point.
The reason why I went for Lance instead of Coghammer is to possibly deal 3-4 damage on turn 2 or three. Paladin kind of struggles with that and especially gets punished by a turn 1 Northshire Cleric and stuff like that. The Lance is still barely helping in those cases, but I found it effective to deal with the early game. Coghammer is a little slower and needs a minion on the board as well. Though Coghammer is decent too and helps with mid/late game. Or with 2 Zombie Chow in the deck. So yeah, running two Zombie is the best with Coghammer in my opinion but for Argent Lance I'll run one for now and see how well it goes. I just might ending up going the Chow/Coghammer router as well because I played like that in my older dragon deck (tempted to use Argent Protector too then lol). So -2 Lance +1 Chow +1Coghammer probably.
I am considering one Seal of Light for one Argent Lance though simply for the same reason I am running Lance in the first place. But it seems two that I would need at least 2 one either of them to make it work.
This seems the type of deck that could make Gadetgetzan Jouster work but it's so much worse losing the joust with it than with Tuskarr, so I'd rather not. I think you have to use that one in a deck with buff and more damage/removal/weapons to back it up if it fails. Still should have been a 1/3 at least with just the attack bonus with joust.
Im also very inclined to drop a Corruptor and 1 Tuskarr for 2 Murloc Knight hehe, that minion is a win condition on its own and puts so much pressure is just insane! It may not fit the theme of the deck but it doesnt go against it either.
Same but I'm using another variant for that. Any of the double 5-drop can be reduced to 1 for a second Murloc Knight, but the Knight is essentially a 6 drop and can sometimes hav subpar results so I prefer one for consistency. I like this variant because Justicar, Quartermaster, and Murloc Knight are also good comeback mechanics after Chillmaw goes off. I think the reason why the Murloc Knights works so well right now is because the meta is all over the place.
But it's true. With the other variant in my first post, your changes can be a pretty valid choice, and I might just remove the Corruptor for one Murloc Knight at least. But this deck is kind of anti-patron oriented and Murloc Knight is counter productive while Corruptor might help in some cases... (who am I kidding tho)
This is how your build looks after a few changes:
My biggest question is whether to leave Coghammer be or replace it for Sylvanas, 1 against aggro, the other against control. Thats a meta call, so it remains to be seen. If the meta slows down, i will also replace Zombie Chow for Gadgetzan Jouster, since Sylvanas increases my chances of winning jousts.
If the meta remains fast i think its also better to run Alexstrasza instead of Ysera, cuz getting that heal or damage on turn 7 will be better than the slow value ysera provides. In that case id also run Nefarian instead of Chromaggus for instant value and another bgh target, what you think?
Alex as heal in Paladin is a bit tricky because in the scenario you're using her, you'd be below 10 health, probably because of the aggro board state. Then you play Alex on 7,8, or 9 and with nothing else, and that aggro can just do that damage again. It can work but especially face hunter can easily do 15 damage (granted it's unlikely so late in the game). My previous Dragon Paladin had Nefarian but I figured he was too random, certainly work better with two BGH targets in the deck but Boom just seems better then. I did have decks with just 5 dragons (2 Consort, 2 Azure, 1 Legendary) and it was okay enough, so you can even just one legendary (you'd still have 7 dragons in your deck). I just handle Chromaggus and Ysera as big annoying creatures with card draw for late game, it's the safe version. Alex and Nefarian would be slightly more aggressive but also a bit risky. Ysera has the upside of handing you dragons to your hand, and you can combo Ysera Awakens with Lay on Hands.
Sylvanas instead of Coghammer is completely fine, but you might even get away with removing BGH instead, since Sylvanas has a similar function and Equality and Aldor can deal with big targets effectively already (I also like Truesilver+Corruptor). That way you'd at least get rid of another card sitting on your hand forever. Old versions of Paladin didn't really have many threats to compete with big stuff which is why everyone did run BGH, but now you can kinda get away without one (or use 2 Equality). Justicar is completely valid too then (especially with Murloc Knight, since you can wipe the board multiple times and just flood it again or use tokens with Equality.
In your current deck, I would keep the Coghammer because your good in early, mid and lategame with it. I'd probably remove something else for 6 drop or tech card.
So many options...
I really don't like Gadgetzan Jouster though, even against control, Zombie Chow enables you early board presence. The Jouster seems almost like a waste of space then. Chow's 5 heal isn't really big of a deal in Paladin decks (unless you run Alex I guess).
Really? I was actually thinking the opposite, its better to play Alex if i run 2 Zombie Chow cuz that heal is not gonna bother me when i can just set my opponent's health to 15 later on anyways, but i guess the deck is too agressive thanks to murloc knight, so using Alex offensively would be rare.
Updated the deck: -BGH, - Ysera, - Chillmaw for + Sylvanas, + Dr. Boom n + Nefarian. Dont have Chillmaw nor Ysera and i prefer to play more agressively anyways, so this kinda works better for me. Also seems counter productive to play Mkight with Chillmaw, if patron becomes an issue ill craft Chillmaw and replace murloc with shredder.
Well you do have control over when to play Murloc Knight and Chillmaw, or even when or if Chillmaw explodes. The great thing about the Knight is that you can flood the board so fast after wiping the board, but I only use that variant with Justicar. For the same reason.
I wonder if Enter the Coliseum is worth it with Sylvanas, but I guess you'd need Emperor to combo it.
This old now but Keeper of Uldaman and Brann were perfect fits. Keeper replaces BGH basically but also allows for guy synergy. Can also be used on Sylvanas to kill her off more easily if needed. Brann isn't really needed but well, double buffs (turn 10 double guy hero power+Brann+Quartermaster...). Other than that he just doubles the Joust (or Healbot but I prefer the body), double Consort effect (?) but that's mostly it. This isn't much different from midrange Paladin now except that Dragon Consort allows for some crazy turns sometimes. Chromaggus isn't really needed but turn 6 Chrom is fine. Could be replaced with Boom but that's a BGH target then or a Guardian of Kings for Brann value. He can just be replaced by Coghammer or a buff/silence and then this is just a midrange Paladin but with some dragons. Azure is actually kind of redundant and one could be removed for a Quartermaser or Jouster but then getting the Twilight dude off my be a bit more difficult.
Also, attempt to make use of Argent Lance failed.