I love mage and i play it a lot, but i'm finding that water elemental is just on the side of too good. I really think it should get toned down to a 2/6 or a 3/5. Especially due to it being able to be summoned off dk Jaina, it just seems a little too good at times.
this is all personal opinion and from a guy who has almost 1000 wins with mage, so there is no salt, just educated feelings.
Are you playing on a private Hearthstone server that is running vanilla patch ? These days 3/6 that can freeze Water Elemental is not even good enough to see play. The card was last seen in vanilla decks or in budget decks.
Not at all, its a really standard card that should stay. The issue i see a lot of the time is how overwhelming a turn 4 play it is. Not many cards in the game can deal with it on turn 3 or turn 4. I base my nerfs off of, okay what is making this card hard to deal with, and i'm finding that in most situations its just sticking until at least turn 6 or trading into turn 3 and 4 minions.
And to the guy saying it is only good with jaina dk, thats kinda untrue, she exacerbates the problem thats already there. I think mage already has a lot of solid cards, but Water elemental just seems like the go to turn 4 play in most decks most of the time in the current meta.
I mean, it's a good-but-not-great card on it's own, it fills out the curve but doesn't really contribute to the goal of a deck. The only reason it's good is because of its DK Jaina synergy, and even then, that deck isn't that great. Maybe one day it will need a nerf, but definitely not right now. I don't think it's ever even been in an oppressively-powerful deck.
The card has very rarely seen any play at all, dating back to the open beta - currently, HSReplays puts the play-rate of the card at about 5% among all Mage decks in Standard. If you look a bit deeper at the stats, the card is almost exclusively played in budget Mage decks - presumably, newer players that don't have better cards. Once their collection expands a little bit, Water Elemental tends to be cut from virtually every list, as it has a very low "win-rate when played" of about 40%. The most commonly-played archetype for Water Elemental at the moment is budget Elemental Mage. Nerfing the card seems like a bad idea, all things considered. The OP explained that his problem really wasn't with the card, so much as the DK - so it seems like a bad idea for him to focus on WE.
I mean, it's a good-but-not-great card on it's own, it fills out the curve but doesn't really contribute to the goal of a deck. The only reason it's good is because of its DK Jaina synergy, and even then, that deck isn't that great. Maybe one day it will need a nerf, but definitely not right now. I don't think it's ever even been in an oppressively-powerful deck.
Thats the only counter argument i can see(not being oppressive right now) but every game i've played using it feels like its just doing too much for nothing. especially when i get DK jaina later on. I feel like just losing the 1 hp would leave it open to dying to things like class specific 5 mana 5/6s more naturally. Right now it generally hits the 5/6 lives to turn 6 and trades with it on turn 6. which seems a little too good.
I mean, it's a good-but-not-great card on it's own, it fills out the curve but doesn't really contribute to the goal of a deck. The only reason it's good is because of its DK Jaina synergy, and even then, that deck isn't that great. Maybe one day it will need a nerf, but definitely not right now. I don't think it's ever even been in an oppressively-powerful deck.
I think this is sort of a fallacy. The card is very good, just not for mage, the same way Anub'Arak literally never saw any kind of serious play, but would have been utterly broken in control warrior.
Water Elemental definitely a card that is on the "too good" side of things in a vacuum, and sure, it doesn't fit into mage decks that way, and you could say that makes it okay, but that means Blizzard can't make a minion-oriented mage deck without turning this card into a problem.
You re right. Move Water elemental to HoF and make jaina summons 10/10 pyros
Kappa
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"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
You re a troll, i know it, or you re stupid. Or both
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
Well, I can see it needing a nerf sometime in the future, but purely because of frost lich jaina. A lot of people are ridiculing you for it, but I can imagine it being too strong in combination with frost lich. As the base card though? No. It's solid, but not even an auto-inclusion.
I mean, it's a good-but-not-great card on it's own, it fills out the curve but doesn't really contribute to the goal of a deck. The only reason it's good is because of its DK Jaina synergy, and even then, that deck isn't that great. Maybe one day it will need a nerf, but definitely not right now. I don't think it's ever even been in an oppressively-powerful deck.
I think this is sort of a fallacy. The card is very good, just not for mage, the same way Anub'Arak literally never saw any kind of serious play, but would have been utterly broken in control warrior.
Water Elemental definitely a card that is on the "too good" side of things in a vacuum, and sure, it doesn't fit into mage decks that way, and you could say that makes it okay, but that means Blizzard can't make a minion-oriented mage deck without turning this card into a problem.
I mean, if the card is bad for mage at the moment, and it's a mage card, that makes it a bad card. It would definitely be good in a mid-range minion-based deck, but Mage is the last class that would get support for a deck like that, especially since Blizzard cares so much about class identity. Let's cross that bridge when we get there instead of trying to pre-nerf weak cards, especially considering that are dozens of cards higher up on the problem or potential-problem list.
I don't agree; it's a pretty good budget card and it should stay the way it is to allow people to play a decent class, with a very limited cardpool when they're just beginning.
I mean, it's a good-but-not-great card on it's own, it fills out the curve but doesn't really contribute to the goal of a deck. The only reason it's good is because of its DK Jaina synergy, and even then, that deck isn't that great. Maybe one day it will need a nerf, but definitely not right now. I don't think it's ever even been in an oppressively-powerful deck.
I think this is sort of a fallacy. The card is very good, just not for mage, the same way Anub'Arak literally never saw any kind of serious play, but would have been utterly broken in control warrior.
Water Elemental definitely a card that is on the "too good" side of things in a vacuum, and sure, it doesn't fit into mage decks that way, and you could say that makes it okay, but that means Blizzard can't make a minion-oriented mage deck without turning this card into a problem.
I mean, if the card is bad for mage at the moment, and it's a mage card, that makes it a bad card. It would definitely be good in a mid-range minion-based deck, but Mage is the last class that would get support for a deck like that, especially since Blizzard cares so much about class identity. Let's cross that bridge when we get there instead of trying to pre-nerf weak cards, especially considering that are dozens of cards higher up on the problem or potential-problem list.
Well, i'll retag you in a month when we find WE is on the problem list lol
I love mage and i play it a lot, but i'm finding that water elemental is just on the side of too good. I really think it should get toned down to a 2/6 or a 3/5. Especially due to it being able to be summoned off dk Jaina, it just seems a little too good at times.
this is all personal opinion and from a guy who has almost 1000 wins with mage, so there is no salt, just educated feelings.
Water Elemental is hardly a playable card by itself, its only good with DK Jaina
That's ridiculous ... but entertaining, keep going. xD
Are you playing on a private Hearthstone server that is running vanilla patch ? These days 3/6 that can freeze Water Elemental is not even good enough to see play. The card was last seen in vanilla decks or in budget decks.
But good try on original content.
I mean, it's a good-but-not-great card on it's own, it fills out the curve but doesn't really contribute to the goal of a deck. The only reason it's good is because of its DK Jaina synergy, and even then, that deck isn't that great. Maybe one day it will need a nerf, but definitely not right now. I don't think it's ever even been in an oppressively-powerful deck.
Your problem seems to be with Jaina. It sounds like you want DK Jaina to summon something other than water elementals.
Hmmm . . .
The card has very rarely seen any play at all, dating back to the open beta - currently, HSReplays puts the play-rate of the card at about 5% among all Mage decks in Standard. If you look a bit deeper at the stats, the card is almost exclusively played in budget Mage decks - presumably, newer players that don't have better cards. Once their collection expands a little bit, Water Elemental tends to be cut from virtually every list, as it has a very low "win-rate when played" of about 40%. The most commonly-played archetype for Water Elemental at the moment is budget Elemental Mage. Nerfing the card seems like a bad idea, all things considered. The OP explained that his problem really wasn't with the card, so much as the DK - so it seems like a bad idea for him to focus on WE.
You wait till Velrun gets here.
Please don't tell my girlfriend about my card collection...
You re right. Move Water elemental to HoF and make jaina summons 10/10 pyros
Kappa
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
You re a troll, i know it, or you re stupid. Or both
"The flow of time is always cruel... its speed seems different for each person, but no one can change it... A thing that does not change with time is a memory of younger days..."
i thought the title was,
Really thinking Water Elemental Needs a...
buff.
Well, I can see it needing a nerf sometime in the future, but purely because of frost lich jaina. A lot of people are ridiculing you for it, but I can imagine it being too strong in combination with frost lich. As the base card though? No. It's solid, but not even an auto-inclusion.
Fuck cubelock
I don't agree; it's a pretty good budget card and it should stay the way it is to allow people to play a decent class, with a very limited cardpool when they're just beginning.
You can't stop the signal.
Well....it's supposed to be a powerful minion....hell, it's not even currently being played by itself and only shows up via Jaina.
Let's not nerf every remotely strong card, otherwise we'll eventually end up with no cards at all and people calling for a nerf onChillwind Yeti
I tried having fun once. It was awful.