UPDATE
See Blizzard's new update here.
Quote from @PlayHearthstoneThank you for your feedback regarding our recent update. We saw a lot of feedback regarding the recent change to Tess Greymane and are currently discussing this change further. We will provide an update once we have more information to share.
Tess Greymane is Not Disenchantable for Full Value, Clearly a Mistake, Right?
Sigh. We had an amazing Hearthstone patch earlier today which gave us new Arena cards, plenty of bug fixes, and a new upcoming event that's going to give us a ton of dust and gold, but Blizzard really dropped the ball on Tess Greymane.
As you may be aware by now, Tess Greymane was changed in today's patch with the following adjustments.
- Tess will now replay hero cards with her Battlecry.
- Tess’s Battlecry is now limited to 30 cards, and will stop if she is silenced, killed, transformed, leaves the battlefield, or if any hero dies.
Do these changes ring a bell? It sure sounds like the nerfs we saw back in late 2016 to our favourite cuddly old god, Yogg-Saron, Hope's End.
- Yogg-Saron, Hope’s End now stops casting spells when it leaves the battlefield or is silenced.
The Change is the Same!
It should be painfully obvious at this point that these two changes are the same only we ended up getting a nice refund for Yogg if you wanted to partake in the disenchantment of our tentacled friend. Why is this different this time around? So far, Blizzard has not made a statement on the, very clear, nerf to the card and we're not sure if they are even going to.
One thing we can say for certain though is Mike Donais admitted Tess would work like pre-nerf Yogg when she was originally revealed. That right there admits their original intentions and they're now backing down on them.
Quote from Mike DonaisDoes Tess Greymane work like pre-nerf Yogg or post-nerf ?
Pre-nerf Yogg currently.
More Bologna
I wasn't letting them off that easy though. It still makes me, and plenty of you, sad that Blizzard refused to give us a dust refund for changing how Shudderwock worked. Although it was without a doubt a necessary change to preserve some sanity, many players crafted the legendary with the assumption it would go on forever. If people are wasting their expensive dust on a card, they should expect it to behave the original way. This is the whole reason why Blizzard does dust refunds in the first place - you can do cool stuff like that in a digital game.
We also need to bring up Lynessa Sunsorrow who received a major change in the patch which also is a total nerf. Previously, the buffs she received would come in the order you played them in, allowing skilled players to get crazy amounts of value out of her. Now everything is going to come down in a random order which could very easily turn out not at all in your favour. Oops. Another huge change to a card that wasn't properly handled.
While we're here, let's also go back to early 2016 when Mekgineer Thermaplugg's token, Leper Gnome, received a hit from the nerf bat. When a card calls out another exact minion or spell, and they change that card, it is a fundamental change which should have also qualified the card which spawns it a dust refund. This is different from random effects though, those pools should not move down the card chain.
But don't worry, they're giving us discounts on a pack bundle so we don't need that dust, just toss 'em some dollars!
Moving On
If they want to make this a thing going forward, that's fine, but cards need to have these same rules in place before they get released to the masses. Limit "stupid" combos to 30 maximum card plays, make things random if you're afraid of an effect. Most importantly though, give people refunds if you screwed up. Changing the card already admits you made a mistake with the original design of the card, now players need to be reimbursed for that.
Sincerely, one frustrated Hearthstone player to another.
Should Tess Greymane be Disenchantable for Full Dust Value?
Tell us what you think. Answer our poll below and leave a comment if you want to tell us more.
and I crafted both golden Shudder and golden Tess... woe is me... :'(
You clearly haven't played vanessa then :) Stop spreading bullshit please :)
Even tho they stated differently than it actually happened, doesn't mean it's not their mistake, the card didn't work out as they originally intended. Thus it's CLEARLY A NERF to this card.
the rule should be easy and clear like this: if Blizzard changes anything on a card, players get full refund. Unless a clear process we'll be having the same discussion time to time.
Since the game launched they take months/years to change something (if they do), so it is like that now.
Tess Greymane replays every card you played from your opponent's class. You generate random class cards with Hallucination, Blink Fox, Pick Pocket and Face Collector in standard and some other in wild. With the exception of Hallucination and Face Collector, you don't really have any influence of what cards you get. There are many class spells that make the new Tess so much worse. Tess into Siphon Soul, Shadow Word: Death, Unstable Evolution, Hex Fireball and many more were bad before, but can now stop the entire Battlecry on the spot.
If you play your opponent's DK, Tess will play all Rogue cards you played this game. That doesn't include the Deathknight itself as it was from your opponent. So for the new Hero card interaction to have any effect, you have to play a Deathknight from your opponent as well as Valeera the Hollow (which then nets you 5 additional armor and another hero power that may or may not be better than your old one). And that is only if your Tess didn't blow itself up before - or Shadowsteps herself into your hand, which is also a quite common interaction.
Replaying DKs certainly can be considered a buff, but its impact is very, very slim, while the change from pre-nerf to post-nerf Yogg behavior will be much more noticeable.
whait what she didn't replay hero cards before? i thought they posted when asked on twitter it literally included all types of cards. Because if you play another class hero and then the rogue hero with tess afterwards you get the first hero replayed right? or did i misinterpret the change completely lol and its just visible now?
This isn't a nerf for Tess really. Most of the votes for yes are probably from people that don't play Thief Rogue, but have Tess in their collection. Limiting the card to 30 does nothing because you'll be lucky to get 7 or 8 cards from your opponent class. You usually get 4 or 5. You will also try to use cards that cannot affect your minions or cards like Death Coil that heal you or damage opponents. Most of the time you'll play minions.
The win condition for my thief deck doesn't rely only on Tess. It would suck if she got silenced or polymorphed, yes, but it wouldn't be an automatic loss.
Yogg cast random spells for every spell you cast in a game. So it had a pretty decent chance of casting silence, polymorph or killing itself. With Tess it's a much lower chance of getting cards with those effects in the first place, and even if you do you can choose not to use them until you play Tess. So, no it isn't exactly the same treatment as Yogg.
"It's not exactly the same treatment", yet you don't go further to define your response, you by being pedantic you're wasting our time. Sorry but if your ultimate point is we don't deserve a refund, and your justification is it's not 100 percent similar but nearly identical, yet you focus on the it's not similar part, your point is weak.
What is your Thief Rogue list?
Who said anything about deserving a refund or not? Blizzard doesn't owe us anything. I'm simply comparing Yogg and Tess, which clearly you didn't understand, so let me make it as simple as I can.
The two cards are very similar, but not identical. With Yogg if you cast 20 spells in a game and play him, he will play 20 random spells with random targets. Because of that there is a fairly high chance of him getting silenced, destroyed, hexed, polymorphed etc. That is why when they changed how he works, we got a full refund.
The current change with Tess and the others is more along the lines of Blizzard getting a grip on themselves and cleaning up the mechanics in order for them to be more consistent in the future. More to the point, the limit part flat out isn't a nerf. The only possible way you're gonna play more than 30 cards is with a friend and with a full steal deck that isn't viable vs beginner innkeeper decks let alone another player's.
The silence, kill, removal part isn't exactly the same because with Yogg, you can't control what he does. Tess replays everything you played during the game. So if you play a bunch of removal, silences, hexes etc. that can target your minions, you can expect that Tess will probably be hit. But you can control what she does. So if you hold on to your removal or run Lillian Voss, you can prevent Tess from killing/silencing/hexing herself. So, I don't thing Blizzard should give us a refund just for making a card require more brains to use.
Of course you may not agree, and that's the beauty of having an opinion, but your reply is basically saying "Nuh-uh" without providing a single counterpoint or argument, and you accuse me of making a weak point just because you don't agree.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1125257-tess-rogue
Something along the lines of this. I'm often changing between defensive and offensive, but that is the gist of it.
Logic isn't some tool you can twist to your will, it's concrete and absolute. After stating points unreasonably, it's extremely hypocritical to assess that same blame. Your reasoning game is weak.
And I still don't understand what is the nerf.... no one ever has played more than 30 buff on Lynessa or more than 30 card from another class with Tess. I even don't comment Shuderwock . No one ever played 20 battlecries as well. Only "nerf" here is to some unlimitted eventually broken combos, which actually everyone should be thankful for nerfing. And again it is pretty obvious difference between Yog battlecry and Tess/Lynessa. In yogg one you had absolutely no control and when you have more cards it can get out of control for both player. It was always used when nothing else save you, you put youg and hope for the best. While Tess/Lynessa you pretty much know what you played and I doubt that ever it will became some surprise what will tess do. I don't see in anyway how Tess and Lynessa was weakened. Not like they are playing now, and not like this is the reason. It is obvious what is difference between nerf and adjustment. And on other hand, no one is keeping you in the game anyway. I totally agree with Blizzard about this. And finally HS community should understand that noone is keeping them in the game, go somewhere else where you will be happy and you will not cry in forum for every decision from developer.
What nonsense!
This is a nerf. The card was designed to do what it did, and now that has been altered. It actually doesn't matter if the card is worse now - people may have crafted this card to specifically get the original effect, so changing the effect implies that these people have in essence been swindled out of 1600 dust ("So sad that you didn't get what you paid for even though we were responsible for giving you false information to start with"). People may have crafted other cards to combine with Tess, and these cards are now potentially useless too, but there's no dust for that either...
It would also help if you didn't pretend that one knew what Tess would do when played. All the targets are random. You don't even know what Tess will do from game to game because the non-class cards are all either purely random or a discover (which is a choice of 3 random cards). In other words, there is very little control of what Tess will end up doing, unless you simply decide to not play the cards you get (which is counter to the reason for building the deck in the first place). This is completely unlike Shudderwock, for instance.
Contrary to popular belief, Tess is not a "get out of jail free" card. It is used for a specific purpose to create an end game win condition - much like Hadronox and it's interaction with Cube, which is apparently perfectly fine. Tess is much more random than this, yet it's nerfed? With no guarantee that the non-class cards played will all be replayed (and presumably the order is now random as well), please explain how you can claim:
Hard to say if trolling or just dumb.
Lynessa - People are complaining about the order of spells you play being randomized. Now, you can produce some really impressive Lynessa by playing spells in specific order, such as Dinosize [/card]first and [card]Blessed Champion last for maximum benefit. With this nerf, BC can instead be the first spell cast, giving a whopping 1 ATK bonus, or Dinosize can be the last spell cast, setting your 20/40 Lynessa back to a 10/10.
Tess - Instead of just playing her, you have to watch out for the cards you played. Played a Fireball, Shadow Word: Death? It could be the first card she replays and kills her right off. I had a memorable Tess game where she Twisting Nether the board and then played two Demons for me, allowing me to win the game against an established Cubelock. With the nerf of this patch? This scenario is not possible anymore.
Plus, Mike Donais specifically said when Tess was revealed that she would work like Pre-nerf Yogg. While I personally believe this is just a communication hiccup within Blizzard, one can totally interpret this as fraud and false advertising.
Actually the main reason everyone to cry is in order to disenchant their EXTRA copy of Tess and Lynessa, which was either not wanted (from pack) or after playing few bad games with them and disappointed from cards. Not because it was weakened, which obviously is not the reason to refund. It is Blizzard choice what is nerf and what no. And most likely if it doesn't affect meta, they don't count it as nerf (as Naga was changed before). But guys... don't worry. I am reminding you. You are still free to leave hearthstone, for their consistent lies.
Have you played Tess ? Be honest. I'm playing her from day one. Now Tess is weaker and it's very simple why. Yes, you have control about the cards that Tess will play but the pool of good cards will be even smaller. For example If I've played Hex at some point I will hold myself playing Tess on an empty board, because now I risk to loose other battlecries. So post-patch Tess is forcing me to not play some cards that before the patch I could play without any additional risk, because Tess and Tess decks are already risky, inconsistent and not very competitive. The new Tess is even weaker. For those who are playing Tess decks there is nothing debatable about this nerf.
@fordagame:
Extra copies? Why would people have extra copies when you can't get legendary duplicates anymore? Derp.
@Skyryser I mean that it is not needed legendary for almost everyone and would like to disenchant it, not that it will be second copy of the legendary.
Welcome our new T5 overlords, the head honchos that won't deal out fair dust refunds and clear communication to players.
RIP Brode :(