I'm all for this. We have tech cards for almost every other situation (silencing buffs/powers, instant kills for certain requirements, destroying divine shields, stealing secrets, getting rid of secrets, destroying weapons) but when warriors can easily add 10 armor in a turn, there should be a way to strip that off with a card or minion. Even if it wouldn't be played due to poor stats and only being good against 1-2 classes, it would be nice to know you could run a card like that to take down a control warrior.
If we can have cards that never see play (Hemet, Cho, Nat, Anomalus), then why not a neutral legendary that removes 10 armor and is a 2/4 for 5 or 6 mana??
The best way to remove armor is to damage the opposing hero; but I wouldn't mind a tech card that removes armor. That said, in a 30-card deck I would be very reluctant to include it; as only one class accumulates large amounts of it.
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Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
remove all armor is likely too much, as such an effect shouldn't be too cheap for how brutal it is, but its so narrow at same time, not worth a card slot. But tech cards are good for meta environments, and perhaps there are softer ways to slightly punish armor without completely sidestepping it, and minor enough you can put the effect on an efficient body?
I think what people are actually frustrated about when they think they're frustrated about all the armor on the warrior is the disproportionately good board management toolkit that warrior has. If they weren't so good at suppressing minions, warriors wouldn't be able to stack up that much armor anyways.
And if the total of health and armor is less than the health cap, armor is exactly the same as healing. Having a card that removes armor would be pretty unfair to warrior as a class, since it would effectively be a "undo all the healing you've done for the last few turns, invalidate some of the cards you've spent to do that, and allow me to kill you" card.
If the total of health and armor is above the health cap and keeps growing, things can get pretty demoralizing, but this is only possible because the warrior is able to manage the board so well that the armor never gets beaten down, so really I'm not sure it's the armor that's the problem.
The only appropriate way I could think of to destroy opponents armor would be to only destroy an amount that brings the total of health and armor back to the health cap. That way, the game might not be hopeless, but it wouldn't invalidate the healing property of armor and give instant lethal.
this is why we need warriors to have an armor limit.... they taking them down to no health, start adding armor.... then RENO! boom Conced
The problem with armor is that, usually Control is favored against Aggro while being weak against Combo, but Control Warrior is favored against both, which is pretty unfair. That is why Control Warrior has always been the most powerful Control deck since beta.
I agree that armor should have a cap, or that Shield Slam should consume armor equivalent to the target's hp (so that they will need to trade armor to remove big minions).
I can say a card that destroy's all armor is not that OP since it will only hit control warriors. 8 other class + Aggro warriors would make the tech card useless. It could be like Light's Champion
To anyone aggreeing with this is probably because they just lost the face race vs a control warrior and they are salty about it .Get over it.CW cant really exist without armor.And then fatigue warrior would have to leave too.Dont just destroy decks because you are salty about the classes.
Yeah, if there was a card that destroyed all armor your opponent has, it basically invalidates their entire deck. Would you think it's fair if there was a singular card that made your deck useless just because some people don't like your deck?
First, with Justicar set to leave standard before too long, I think it'll be a lot less likely to see those absurd 30/40/50 armor stacks anymore. Second, I'd rather just cap armor at 30 instead of creating a tech card. It doesn't seem unfair to control Warrior to have an HP hard cap at 60 between health and armor.
ooo I like the Cap idea
I've played fatigue warrior where the only point of the deck is remove minions and gain armor and I still finish with less than 30 armor. Honestly the average warrior doesn't ever have more than 10 or so armor at any given time, it kinda just sounds like you tried to burst your opponent down and it didn't work and now you're just salty. Kinda like how when someone loses to freeze mage they want ice block nerfed, or when they lose to shaman they want spirit claw nerfed.
Warriors have no heals so they gain armor and if your win condition is go all in and try to burst them down, you force their win condition to be gain enough armor to avoid being bursted down. Also armor is the warrior's hero power so you can't just undo it. Imagine if there was a card that made warlocks discard a card for every time they used their hero power this game or a card that does as much damage as a priest has healed for this game.
A 2 mana spell for mage "Remove 3 health from hero or minion" instead damage is a very better tech card, you can kill the low health warrior because your early agression but gain so much armor after and works a regular card vs everything else.
I can see the potential for an effect along the lines of 'If this minion attacks an enemy hero with armor, deal 'x' extra damage'. But I don't see effects that outright remove armor being a thing.
I hope they add armor countering cards, so tiresome playing vs warriors that has like 30+ extra HP, that you can't even deal with with Alexstrasza. Also, could be nice versus mage and druid of course.
No. It'll be fringe; you're basically playing it for one archetype of one class: control warrior. In Mage and Druid, armor isn't considered much. The viability of Control Warrior is that it can survive the brunt of aggressive decks and then come back with armor. Control Warrior isn't even that OP, and never has been that OP, and requires more skill than a lot of decks to play properly. Limiting it by giving everyone a card that destroys a big part of that deck is stupid.
A card like that will never be printed, and if it ever is, shame on Blizzard, because it's not something necessary or fundamental towards the improvement of Hearthstone. It's a reactionary card to make, and reactionary cards ruin the game, ie. every OP card Shaman got in the passed few expansions. No, no, no, no, no, a million times no, a card like this should absolutely not exist.
To me the only problem is that warrior can get for 9 mana 20 armor plus 6/6 body plus 2/4 body from two cards only.
That's not two cards only. That's having the buff cards for C'Thun, being able to play them while not getting run down by aggressive plays, and actually managing to get to turn 9 to pull it off, which isn't even that great a turn. Brann has better uses than gaining 20 armor, unless it's desperately, desperately needed.
The idea has some merit and precedent. Both Harrison Jones and Ooze directly counter the Rogue hero power.
But weapons are way broader than armor. 3 classes can play armor, two of which only receive it in a spell each, and one of them has a hero power that generates armor as a tool to protect it when trading into smaller minions. As for weapons, there are 5 of the 9 classes that have weapons, and now with Atiesh, technically all classes can play a weapon. That's why there's weapon removal, and why there isn't armor removal.
Another thing to note is that Control Warrior specifically uses weapons as a prime form of removal. That specifically is probably the reason why Warrior's hero power is what it is, and is why armor can be stacked on top of health, so that Warrior won't be exhausting its health pool and being limited from stabilizing it.
God. Control Warrior has never been the problem in Hearthstone, it's surprising people actually thing it is or ever was. Look on ladder and compare all the matchups you have; how many, at the end of the day, were control warriors, and how many of them played well for their ranking?
I really hope this is some sort of sarcasm. Thinking Control Warrior or Freeze Mage are OP and unbeatable because they've beaten you in the past is ridiculous; Freeze Mage has only been played by 3% of Hearthstone players in the passed season or so, and Control Warrior is likely not much more and includes the same people. Both decks are higher skill based decks, that also require more epics and legendaries to play properly, and is far less a problem than the hyper-aggressive, hyper-mindless, hyper-easy-to-play or "auto-pilot" decks like face/midrange hunter, zoolock, and aggro/midrange shaman (yes, I understand the skill cap can go pretty high with these decks, but players playing these decks just end up higher ranked because they're playing broken decks).
I'm all for this. We have tech cards for almost every other situation (silencing buffs/powers, instant kills for certain requirements, destroying divine shields, stealing secrets, getting rid of secrets, destroying weapons) but when warriors can easily add 10 armor in a turn, there should be a way to strip that off with a card or minion. Even if it wouldn't be played due to poor stats and only being good against 1-2 classes, it would be nice to know you could run a card like that to take down a control warrior.
If we can have cards that never see play (Hemet, Cho, Nat, Anomalus), then why not a neutral legendary that removes 10 armor and is a 2/4 for 5 or 6 mana??
Quit complaining and just have fun with this game!
The best way to remove armor is to damage the opposing hero; but I wouldn't mind a tech card that removes armor. That said, in a 30-card deck I would be very reluctant to include it; as only one class accumulates large amounts of it.
Dependable loan sharks since 1960. We sink our teeth into every deal we make.
2 manas 3/2 battlecry "Destroy all opponent's armor".
If this exists I will prefer to use Ooze, is much less situational.
remove all armor is likely too much, as such an effect shouldn't be too cheap for how brutal it is, but its so narrow at same time, not worth a card slot. But tech cards are good for meta environments, and perhaps there are softer ways to slightly punish armor without completely sidestepping it, and minor enough you can put the effect on an efficient body?
2 cost (mech minion)
If your opponent has armor, minion gets +1 atk
2/3
or
3 cost weapon - shaman
deals double damage to opponents with armor
2/3
etc
The problem with armor is that, usually Control is favored against Aggro while being weak against Combo, but Control Warrior is favored against both, which is pretty unfair. That is why Control Warrior has always been the most powerful Control deck since beta.
I agree that armor should have a cap, or that Shield Slam should consume armor equivalent to the target's hp (so that they will need to trade armor to remove big minions).
I don't believe it should be "all armor. " maybe like 10-20 armor instead
I can say a card that destroy's all armor is not that OP since it will only hit control warriors. 8 other class + Aggro warriors would make the tech card useless. It could be like Light's Champion
The only thing that I would agree to would be that fatigue does damage to health and not armour.
Removing armour as others said is too situational and only geared toward warrior matchups.
A 2 mana spell for mage "Remove 3 health from hero or minion" instead damage is a very better tech card, you can kill the low health warrior because your early agression but gain so much armor after and works a regular card vs everything else.
Removing armor - no. Armor cap? - absolutely!
I've honestly never felt like armor has been the issue. To me it's always been shield slam.
The way warriors can abuse armor can feel a bit unfair, but I'm fine with them gaining a ton of it.
I can see the potential for an effect along the lines of 'If this minion attacks an enemy hero with armor, deal 'x' extra damage'. But I don't see effects that outright remove armor being a thing.
I hope they add armor countering cards, so tiresome playing vs warriors that has like 30+ extra HP, that you can't even deal with with Alexstrasza. Also, could be nice versus mage and druid of course.
The idea has some merit and precedent. Both Harrison Jones and Ooze directly counter the Rogue hero power.
And no one can stop freeze mage :/
To me the only problem is that warrior can get for 9 mana 20 armor plus 6/6 body plus 2/4 body from two cards only.
--Alfi--
No. It'll be fringe; you're basically playing it for one archetype of one class: control warrior. In Mage and Druid, armor isn't considered much. The viability of Control Warrior is that it can survive the brunt of aggressive decks and then come back with armor. Control Warrior isn't even that OP, and never has been that OP, and requires more skill than a lot of decks to play properly. Limiting it by giving everyone a card that destroys a big part of that deck is stupid.
A card like that will never be printed, and if it ever is, shame on Blizzard, because it's not something necessary or fundamental towards the improvement of Hearthstone. It's a reactionary card to make, and reactionary cards ruin the game, ie. every OP card Shaman got in the passed few expansions. No, no, no, no, no, a million times no, a card like this should absolutely not exist.