If they nerf Druid class cards, especially Guff, then they really have to nerf all the Aggro power house as well (Mech Mage, Pirate Warrior, Quest Hunter). Druid rn is the only class that can counters those Aggro classes effectively into the late-game values. Other control decks don't exist. Nerfing Druid's power does not bring back other control decks if that is what you are hoping for.
Kasakusan is the card that I can agree if it gets nerf, but it is a Neutral card, not a Druid class card problem.
Instead of complaining about Druid consistencies, why not improving the consistencies for other weaker classes atm? we have more classes that need more help on: DH, Shaman, Priest, Warlock, hello? (I think Rogue & Paladin are balanced if the other classes are not so strong..)
Don’t forget that they sold gold Kazakusan in an $80 bundle last month… I’m not an expert, but big Kazakusan nerfs could be grounds for false advertising and result in a refund from apple/google.
Kazakusan was part of a 40$ mini set. Nerfing Kazakusan is fine since u bought an entire set and not just 1 card
If they nerf Druid class cards, especially Guff, then they really have to nerf all the Aggro power house as well (Mech Mage, Pirate Warrior, Quest Hunter). Druid rn is the only class that can counters those Aggro classes effectively into the late-game values. Other control decks don't exist. Nerfing Druid's power does not bring back other control decks if that is what you are hoping for.
Kasakusan is the card that I can agree if it gets nerf, but it is a Neutral card, not a Druid class card problem.
Instead of complaining about Druid consistencies, why not improving the consistencies for other weaker classes atm? we have more classes that need more help on: DH, Shaman, Priest, Warlock, hello? (I think Rogue & Paladin are balanced if the other classes are not so strong..)
Don’t forget that they sold gold Kazakusan in an $80 bundle last month… I’m not an expert, but big Kazakusan nerfs could be grounds for false advertising and result in a refund from apple/google.
Kazakusan was part of a 40$ mini set. Nerfing Kazakusan is fine since u bought an entire set and not just 1 card
I didn’t mean whether it was fine or not from a player perspective, more legal/financial. Kazakusan was the premium card of the set for rarity and fanfare. They sent out emails announcing it. They had one of the most widespread streamers the reveal it. A customer could say to apple or google that the product they bought is not the product delivered and they don’t have access to it anymore and possibly get a refund. It happens a lot with dlc and mobile games especially.
I want to commend the OP for an excellent post. Your analysis is great.
The consistency problem is what pisses me off the most. If Druids pulled off their insane gameplan every so often it wouldn't be so frustrating. Sadly, they can do it almost every game.
Guff needs hefty nerfs. I would even say put him on 7 mana and change the HP to only give an EMTPY mana crystal and no crystal on the battle cry. As soon as this card is out druid will be manageable.
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"... but not less than (1)" is needed now more than ever!
having 30+ armor, hand full of cards and 10+/10+ taunt on board at 7th turn is beating everything. Only hyperaggro decks can compete
Not at all. I haven’t lost a match to a Druid in a long time with shellfish priest. The deck can deal way more damage than they get and it heavily punishes few cards in the deck. The trick is to make xyrella go off the turn before they play kaz.
Great post OP. Unfortunatelly most commenters fail to get the point.
Nerfing Guff is absolutely useless, Guff main use is simply to go beyond 10 mana and overwhelm the opponent, if you take this away there is no point in the card existing, the only sensible nerf is for him to always grant a empty mana crystal to deter highly mana efficient plays, slowing him down. Taking away Kazakusan is just as shortsighted, the deck doesnt require him to win or to steamroll control decks, the card is simply widely available and much flashier.
The true solution is to bring one of his weaknesses back, nerfing either his healing with Scales or his board control capabilities, as his consistency and ramping shanenigans are going nowhere(but Nourish to 6 is kinda okay), this way he will have a much harder time against Aggro and Midrange strategies, but will keep his intended strong control matchup.
Kazakusan Should require at least 5 dragons in your deck in order to be activated.
Option 1: Once it activates should transform 5 of your dragons in your deck into 2 treasures each. (Deleting 5 dragons giving you 10 treasures.)
Option 2: Once it activates delete every dragon in your deck, then discover 5 treasures to shuffle 2 of each into your deck. No more dragons in your deck. (Lady Prestor could see play.)
This way you could not cheat out or create an infinite deck. But it also can be used before you run out of cards because it won't delete any other cards than dragons.
That's a double nerf, because when Kaz deletes your deck he also increases your draw consistency, you always draw a treasure. Just restrict him to dedicated dragon decks instead.
Nerfing Guff is absolutely useless, Guff main use is simply to go beyond 10 mana and overwhelm the opponent, if you take this away there is no point in the card existing,
And? If Guff got nerfed to pointlessness, it'd be more than ok.
He is the Un'Goro mage quest as a lasting effect without requiring any sort of prior conditions. From the point he is played for the rest of the game, that player basically has double the mana of their opponent.
I think Kazakusan should be nerfed to requiring at least 1 dragon in deck. Druid would always be tempted to just run Onyxia, but then they risk of drawing her before Kazakusan, wich means even druids will be more willing to actually add more dragons, maybe swapping something for 2xAzure Drake. Anyways, it would help making Kazakusan fit into dragon decks, instead of "no minions". That said, it's irrelevant because it's not like druid most of the time does'nt need Kazakusan anyways.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but Guff, Kazakusan and Druid are fine. Druid is so strong right now because the traditional control archetypes of priest, warlock, warrior and shaman are missing pieces to control the board. Each one of those classes have decks that can steamroll Druid, but they can’t compete with aggro DH, pirate warrior and mech mage, which should be easy wins for them, except they don’t have enough good and cheap board control. Therefore, board flood archetypes are being pushed and have no punishment for overextending from control archetypes and thus Druid is reigning because the board flood decks hit a double Ivus sized wall and all the armor that comes with it. HS at its best is usually a bit of a Rock Paper Scissors meta, and right now, the paper has a huge hole in it. This “problem” has an easy solution, more cards. We are feeling it more than ever because of core and set rotation. The mini set will be out sooner than other mini sets followed expansions, if the gryphon track can be used as a marker. If there are hysteria and bladestorm replacements or payoffs for warlock that aren’t curses or demon seed, the problem will sort itself out.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but Guff, Kazakusan and Druid are fine. Druid is so strong right now because the traditional control archetypes of priest, warlock, warrior and shaman are missing pieces to control the board. Each one of those classes have decks that can steamroll Druid, but they can’t compete with aggro DH, pirate warrior and mech mage, which should be easy wins for them, except they don’t have enough good and cheap board control. Therefore, board flood archetypes are being pushed and have no punishment for overextending from control archetypes and thus Druid is reigning because the board flood decks hit a double Ivus sized wall and all the armor that comes with it. HS at its best is usually a bit of a Rock Paper Scissors meta, and right now, the paper has a huge hole in it. This “problem” has an easy solution, more cards. We are feeling it more than ever because of core and set rotation. The mini set will be out sooner than other mini sets followed expansions, if the gryphon track can be used as a marker. If there are hysteria and bladestorm replacements or payoffs for warlock that aren’t curses or demon seed, the problem will sort itself out.
What are the win conditions (without Kazakusan) for Control Priest/Warrior/Shaman/Warlock even if they can counter the Aggro decks assuming they have enough AoE tools by then to survive?
guff isn’t the problem, it’s Kazakusan in druid deck. As you’ve seen Kazakusan in other decks is strong but not at strong as druid. Being able to draw out your cards quickly and finding multiple copies makes it busted.
If you compare other heroes on their own Cariel is busted and more threatening than Guff. Guff on its own doesn’t win you games, but Cariel is a game changer on her own.
So, I think by nerfing Kazakusan will resolve everyone’s problem with druid.
Kazakusan was part of a 40$ mini set. Nerfing Kazakusan is fine since u bought an entire set and not just 1 card
I didn’t mean whether it was fine or not from a player perspective, more legal/financial. Kazakusan was the premium card of the set for rarity and fanfare. They sent out emails announcing it. They had one of the most widespread streamers the reveal it. A customer could say to apple or google that the product they bought is not the product delivered and they don’t have access to it anymore and possibly get a refund. It happens a lot with dlc and mobile games especially.
The entire game is a problem.
I want to commend the OP for an excellent post. Your analysis is great.
The consistency problem is what pisses me off the most. If Druids pulled off their insane gameplan every so often it wouldn't be so frustrating. Sadly, they can do it almost every game.
U r missing armor gain problem :)
having 30+ armor, hand full of cards and 10+/10+ taunt on board at 7th turn is beating everything. Only hyperaggro decks can compete
“The sustain problem” is right in the original post, and references exactly this :)
We just need the "destroy opponent armor" guy back, and problem fixed mostly
Guff needs hefty nerfs. I would even say put him on 7 mana and change the HP to only give an EMTPY mana crystal and no crystal on the battle cry. As soon as this card is out druid will be manageable.
"... but not less than (1)" is needed now more than ever!
Not at all. I haven’t lost a match to a Druid in a long time with shellfish priest. The deck can deal way more damage than they get and it heavily punishes few cards in the deck. The trick is to make xyrella go off the turn before they play kaz.
Great post OP. Unfortunatelly most commenters fail to get the point.
Nerfing Guff is absolutely useless, Guff main use is simply to go beyond 10 mana and overwhelm the opponent, if you take this away there is no point in the card existing, the only sensible nerf is for him to always grant a empty mana crystal to deter highly mana efficient plays, slowing him down. Taking away Kazakusan is just as shortsighted, the deck doesnt require him to win or to steamroll control decks, the card is simply widely available and much flashier.
The true solution is to bring one of his weaknesses back, nerfing either his healing with Scales or his board control capabilities, as his consistency and ramping shanenigans are going nowhere(but Nourish to 6 is kinda okay), this way he will have a much harder time against Aggro and Midrange strategies, but will keep his intended strong control matchup.
There is only problem In Kaelthas and RAmps..Oh Im sorry owerpowered ramps...cuz druid were always about ramping..but this is tooooo much.
I'm sick and tired of Oracle of Elune. Whenever I see that card, I feel like the Burning of Teldrassil kinda had a point.
Someone do something about that crap (and the reliable "draw Guff for turn 5 guaranteed play" cards).
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
Kazakusan Should require at least 5 dragons in your deck in order to be activated.
Option 1: Once it activates should transform 5 of your dragons in your deck into 2 treasures each. (Deleting 5 dragons giving you 10 treasures.)
Option 2: Once it activates delete every dragon in your deck, then discover 5 treasures to shuffle 2 of each into your deck. No more dragons in your deck. (Lady Prestor could see play.)
This way you could not cheat out or create an infinite deck. But it also can be used before you run out of cards because it won't delete any other cards than dragons.
That's a double nerf, because when Kaz deletes your deck he also increases your draw consistency, you always draw a treasure. Just restrict him to dedicated dragon decks instead.
And?
If Guff got nerfed to pointlessness, it'd be more than ok.
He is the Un'Goro mage quest as a lasting effect without requiring any sort of prior conditions.
From the point he is played for the rest of the game, that player basically has double the mana of their opponent.
That is not fair, nor is it fun.
I think Kazakusan should be nerfed to requiring at least 1 dragon in deck. Druid would always be tempted to just run Onyxia, but then they risk of drawing her before Kazakusan, wich means even druids will be more willing to actually add more dragons, maybe swapping something for 2xAzure Drake. Anyways, it would help making Kazakusan fit into dragon decks, instead of "no minions". That said, it's irrelevant because it's not like druid most of the time does'nt need Kazakusan anyways.
Click to see my Hearthstone projects:
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but Guff, Kazakusan and Druid are fine. Druid is so strong right now because the traditional control archetypes of priest, warlock, warrior and shaman are missing pieces to control the board. Each one of those classes have decks that can steamroll Druid, but they can’t compete with aggro DH, pirate warrior and mech mage, which should be easy wins for them, except they don’t have enough good and cheap board control. Therefore, board flood archetypes are being pushed and have no punishment for overextending from control archetypes and thus Druid is reigning because the board flood decks hit a double Ivus sized wall and all the armor that comes with it. HS at its best is usually a bit of a Rock Paper Scissors meta, and right now, the paper has a huge hole in it. This “problem” has an easy solution, more cards. We are feeling it more than ever because of core and set rotation. The mini set will be out sooner than other mini sets followed expansions, if the gryphon track can be used as a marker. If there are hysteria and bladestorm replacements or payoffs for warlock that aren’t curses or demon seed, the problem will sort itself out.
What are the win conditions (without Kazakusan) for Control Priest/Warrior/Shaman/Warlock even if they can counter the Aggro decks assuming they have enough AoE tools by then to survive?
guff isn’t the problem, it’s Kazakusan in druid deck. As you’ve seen Kazakusan in other decks is strong but not at strong as druid. Being able to draw out your cards quickly and finding multiple copies makes it busted.
If you compare other heroes on their own Cariel is busted and more threatening than Guff. Guff on its own doesn’t win you games, but Cariel is a game changer on her own.
So, I think by nerfing Kazakusan will resolve everyone’s problem with druid.
lol what. Kaz murders control