Hello, I have been trying to make Paladin work sice the very beginning of AoO, but it turns out to be impossible. At first I was playing some netdecks, which supposedly should have around 50% winrate, however they are not even close to this number. Both Pure and Libram Paladins are getting massively outvalued by almost every deck. Yes, I won a few games, but it was only thanks to Murgurgle Prime. After this I tried a few obviously crazy creations of mine: Quest (Standard) Libram Paladin, Aggro Sidequest Paladin, Murloc Paladin. They just don't work. There have been a few similiar threads from fellow Paladin mainers, so finally I want to call out to Blizzard to buff Paladin. The class has been in tier 4 for too long. Literally the last time it was viable was back in "Doom in the tomb" with secrets. I want to play my favorite class with even a little success. What do you people think? Should Paladin get buffs?
Here are some of my suggestions: Libram of Wisdom --> from 2 to 3 mana ---> gives +2/+2 instead of +1/+1 ; Murgur Murgurgle --> from 2 to 1 mana ; Pharaoh's Blessing --> from 6 to 5 mana ; Lay on Hands --> from 8 to 6 mana ---> draws 2 cards instead of 3
I don't know if the buffs I proposed are good, but the question is the overall issue of Paladin's weakness. I want to listen to your opinion on this.
Paladin needs better board clears before it needs better cute stuff like cheaper buffs and Lay on Hands.
Murgurgle isn't even a bad card, buffing it is a TERRIBLE idea. It's a great card in a terrible class. There's a reason it's in every single Paladin deck.
This is a good idea. Paladin sucks so hard right now something has to be done.
I would suggest different changes. Murgle Mugurgle at one mana would be nuts. I wouldn't expect that.
What Paladin really needs is card draw. Either they have to give us a new card or they would need to seriously buff one of the Libram cards to say "battlecry: draw a card".
Paladin needs better board clears before it needs better cute stuff like cheaper buffs and Lay on Hands.
Murgurgle isn't even a bad card, buffing it is a TERRIBLE idea. It's a great card in a terrible class. There's a reason it's in every single Paladin deck.
Boardclear??? They have decent boardclear. They need card-draw.
Hand of A'dal is also card draw that's seen as 2 of in every deck. It's not ENOUGH, but you certainly can't say Blizz did nothing to address that issue. But I guess you also can't say they did nothing about the board clear as Libram of Justice is... sort of a Board Clear.
This is a good idea. Paladin sucks so hard right now something has to be done.
I would suggest different changes. Murgle Mugurgle at one mana would be nuts. I wouldn't expect that.
What Paladin really needs is card draw. Either they have to give us a new card or they would need to serious buff one of the Libram cards to say "battlecry: draw a card".
Yes, you're right. But really the change I proposed to Murgurgle is just based on my experiance. The only win condition Paladin has right now is drawing Murgurgle Prime. That' why I thought it would be better to play Murgurgle as early as possible to shuffle the prime into ones deck. Nonetheless, I don't think my proposed buffs are balanced or good, I just wanted to add something and not be one of the people who complain and don't actually suggest anything. 😅
Paladin needs better board clears before it needs better cute stuff like cheaper buffs and Lay on Hands.
Murgurgle isn't even a bad card, buffing it is a TERRIBLE idea. It's a great card in a terrible class. There's a reason it's in every single Paladin deck.
Yes, Murgurgle is the best card Paladin has right now. I would even say that he pushes the whole class into tier 4. Without Murgurgle I don't think Pally would even be in tier 5.
Paladin needs better board clears before it needs better cute stuff like cheaper buffs and Lay on Hands.
Murgurgle isn't even a bad card, buffing it is a TERRIBLE idea. It's a great card in a terrible class. There's a reason it's in every single Paladin deck.
Boardclear??? They have decent boardclear. They need card-draw.
I tried to make control Paladin work. You know the issue I kept running into? BOARD CLEARING.
Equality needs to combo with something. Or it isn't a real clear. When you have the Pyro and the equality but not the other... it creates more problems than you think. Librum of Justice made this SLIGHTLY less of an issue, but they still don't have any reliable way to wipe a board with one card.
"Decent" boardclear requiring a two card combo doesn't cut it when things like Plague of Death and Plague of Flames are in the meta. Oh, and the new Holy Nova makes Consencration look really awful, too. And Shadow Word Ruin, as long as we're on Priest.
Paladin needs better board clears before it needs better cute stuff like cheaper buffs and Lay on Hands.
Murgurgle isn't even a bad card, buffing it is a TERRIBLE idea. It's a great card in a terrible class. There's a reason it's in every single Paladin deck.
Boardclear??? They have decent boardclear. They need card-draw.
I tried to make control Paladin work. You know the issue I kept running into? BOARD CLEARING.
Equality needs to combo with something. Or it isn't a real clear. When you have the Pyro and the equality but not the other... it creates more problems than you think. Librum of Justice made this SLIGHTLY less of an issue, but they still don't have any reliable way to wipe a board with one card.
"Decent" boardclear requiring a two card combo doesn't cut it when things like Plague of Death and Plague of Flames are in the meta. Oh, and the new Holy Nova makes Consencration look really awful, too. And Shadow Word Ruin, as long as we're on Priest.
That's my point. Blizzard changes other classes, by giving them good cards, but for some reason they seem to have forgotten about Paladin. Also when we're talking about the whole "class identity" thing, Paladin has completely 0 identity. Generally Paladin as a class in WoW and other games is a class that relies on his toughness. He is like a huge tank with a lot of survivability, shielding and healing. Well, I don't see even one of this aspects in Hearthstone right now...
As someone who plays Paladin primarily on WoW and HS I can say you’re spot on that Paladin needs some help right now. The expansion is fun, but it’s not fun to lose every time you play as your favorite class. In tough times Paladin has always had a fallback that makes it a menace to the meta: Murloc Paladin. I’m surprised their isn’t more murloc decks out their, I guess the problem being there’s no closer to win the game (Anyfin Can Happen was a favorite). If there was a way to slam the board with powerful murlocs toward the late rounds I think it would be viable but such a card doesn’t exist that I’m aware of right now? It’s like Blizzard wanted to go all in on pally librams and lore, then said “that won’t work give them a powerful murloc legendary to makeup the slack”... but without supporting cards it’s just not enough to win games.
Card Draw and Board Clears is what Paladin needs, it’s no surprise that the class has been floundering ever since they HOF'd Divine Favor and Nerfed Equality. Another core problem which Paladin has is its hero power especially in this meta. The Silverhand Recruits just get value traded by both DH and Rogue's hero powers not to mention the Lackeys
Paladin was perfectly viable before rotation, mech paladin was tier 1. Why is someone always complaining about pally ever since the equality nerf? Maybe it is just time for paladin to suck. Look at shaman, dead for ages, they bring back evolve for a month and the class is degenerate, they mess up gala and nerf the class (deservedly so) but leave it in an unplayable state. Shaman hasn't had a good stable deck in standard since even shaman.
Here are some of my suggestions: Libram of Wisdom --> from 2 to 3 mana ---> gives +2/+2 instead of +1/+1 ; Murgur Murgurgle --> from 2 to 1 mana ; Pharaoh's Blessing --> from 6 to 5 mana ; Lay on Hands --> from 8 to 6 mana ---> draws 2 cards instead of 3
I don't know if the buffs I proposed are good, but the question is the overall issue of Paladin's weakness. I want to listen to your opinion on this.
Could Blizzard buff Paladin? Absolutely.
Should it be anything that you just listed? Fucking no. That's way too many buffs.
Except the Lay on Hands change. That's probably the only one you listed that would be a great change. Paladins lack any meaningful card draw, aside for literally two cycle cards. Lay on Hands has also been powercreeped by other healing spells for a long time. It's in need of an update. It comes far too late in the game, in a class that's far too reliant on mana.
After that? Nothing needs buffing. They have great tempo options, and both early/late drops. They just lack any meaningful card draw, and they rely too heavily on their Pure benefits for card generation, that Bad Luck Albatross just decimates them.
Alternatively, they could just move Crystology to their classic set. It would let Paladin actually play their reborn quest again, and give them a nice niche.
Yet another expac with ZERO support for Reborn Paladin, looks like Blizz specifically hate Pally players. With Crystology gone that entire archtype is trash. Instead we have shitty librams with their shitty effects that are so underpowered and slow. Sigh.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hello, I have been trying to make Paladin work sice the very beginning of AoO, but it turns out to be impossible. At first I was playing some netdecks, which supposedly should have around 50% winrate, however they are not even close to this number. Both Pure and Libram Paladins are getting massively outvalued by almost every deck. Yes, I won a few games, but it was only thanks to Murgurgle Prime. After this I tried a few obviously crazy creations of mine: Quest (Standard) Libram Paladin, Aggro Sidequest Paladin, Murloc Paladin. They just don't work. There have been a few similiar threads from fellow Paladin mainers, so finally I want to call out to Blizzard to buff Paladin. The class has been in tier 4 for too long. Literally the last time it was viable was back in "Doom in the tomb" with secrets. I want to play my favorite class with even a little success. What do you people think? Should Paladin get buffs?
Here are some of my suggestions: Libram of Wisdom --> from 2 to 3 mana ---> gives +2/+2 instead of +1/+1 ; Murgur Murgurgle --> from 2 to 1 mana ; Pharaoh's Blessing --> from 6 to 5 mana ; Lay on Hands --> from 8 to 6 mana ---> draws 2 cards instead of 3
I don't know if the buffs I proposed are good, but the question is the overall issue of Paladin's weakness. I want to listen to your opinion on this.
Paladin needs better board clears before it needs better cute stuff like cheaper buffs and Lay on Hands.
Murgurgle isn't even a bad card, buffing it is a TERRIBLE idea. It's a great card in a terrible class. There's a reason it's in every single Paladin deck.
This is a good idea. Paladin sucks so hard right now something has to be done.
I would suggest different changes. Murgle Mugurgle at one mana would be nuts. I wouldn't expect that.
What Paladin really needs is card draw. Either they have to give us a new card or they would need to seriously buff one of the Libram cards to say "battlecry: draw a card".
Boardclear??? They have decent boardclear. They need card-draw.
Hand of A'dal is also card draw that's seen as 2 of in every deck. It's not ENOUGH, but you certainly can't say Blizz did nothing to address that issue. But I guess you also can't say they did nothing about the board clear as Libram of Justice is... sort of a Board Clear.
....Hm. A Fan of Knives ripoff?
It covers both the bases Paladin's lacking on.
Yes, you're right. But really the change I proposed to Murgurgle is just based on my experiance. The only win condition Paladin has right now is drawing Murgurgle Prime. That' why I thought it would be better to play Murgurgle as early as possible to shuffle the prime into ones deck. Nonetheless, I don't think my proposed buffs are balanced or good, I just wanted to add something and not be one of the people who complain and don't actually suggest anything. 😅
Yes, Murgurgle is the best card Paladin has right now. I would even say that he pushes the whole class into tier 4. Without Murgurgle I don't think Pally would even be in tier 5.
I tried to make control Paladin work. You know the issue I kept running into? BOARD CLEARING.
Equality needs to combo with something. Or it isn't a real clear. When you have the Pyro and the equality but not the other... it creates more problems than you think. Librum of Justice made this SLIGHTLY less of an issue, but they still don't have any reliable way to wipe a board with one card.
"Decent" boardclear requiring a two card combo doesn't cut it when things like Plague of Death and Plague of Flames are in the meta. Oh, and the new Holy Nova makes Consencration look really awful, too. And Shadow Word Ruin, as long as we're on Priest.
That's my point. Blizzard changes other classes, by giving them good cards, but for some reason they seem to have forgotten about Paladin. Also when we're talking about the whole "class identity" thing, Paladin has completely 0 identity. Generally Paladin as a class in WoW and other games is a class that relies on his toughness. He is like a huge tank with a lot of survivability, shielding and healing. Well, I don't see even one of this aspects in Hearthstone right now...
Yeah. Because Paladin's board clears are inconsistent at best. I'm glad you agree.
A lot of classes needs buffs but it won't happen, because Blizzard, you know.
As someone who plays Paladin primarily on WoW and HS I can say you’re spot on that Paladin needs some help right now. The expansion is fun, but it’s not fun to lose every time you play as your favorite class. In tough times Paladin has always had a fallback that makes it a menace to the meta: Murloc Paladin. I’m surprised their isn’t more murloc decks out their, I guess the problem being there’s no closer to win the game (Anyfin Can Happen was a favorite). If there was a way to slam the board with powerful murlocs toward the late rounds I think it would be viable but such a card doesn’t exist that I’m aware of right now? It’s like Blizzard wanted to go all in on pally librams and lore, then said “that won’t work give them a powerful murloc legendary to makeup the slack”... but without supporting cards it’s just not enough to win games.
“Put your faith in the Light!”
Card Draw and Board Clears is what Paladin needs, it’s no surprise that the class has been floundering ever since they HOF'd Divine Favor and Nerfed Equality. Another core problem which Paladin has is its hero power especially in this meta. The Silverhand Recruits just get value traded by both DH and Rogue's hero powers not to mention the Lackeys
Paladin was perfectly viable before rotation, mech paladin was tier 1. Why is someone always complaining about pally ever since the equality nerf? Maybe it is just time for paladin to suck. Look at shaman, dead for ages, they bring back evolve for a month and the class is degenerate, they mess up gala and nerf the class (deservedly so) but leave it in an unplayable state. Shaman hasn't had a good stable deck in standard since even shaman.
crystology
Yeah my point is the OP is saying paladin has been tier 4 for too long. But it hasn't been tier 4 for too long.
my apologies, did not read your post carefully enough.
You should have another shot at Murloc Paladin. It's starting to emerge from the shadows
Could Blizzard buff Paladin? Absolutely.
Should it be anything that you just listed? Fucking no. That's way too many buffs.
Except the Lay on Hands change. That's probably the only one you listed that would be a great change. Paladins lack any meaningful card draw, aside for literally two cycle cards. Lay on Hands has also been powercreeped by other healing spells for a long time. It's in need of an update. It comes far too late in the game, in a class that's far too reliant on mana.
After that? Nothing needs buffing. They have great tempo options, and both early/late drops. They just lack any meaningful card draw, and they rely too heavily on their Pure benefits for card generation, that Bad Luck Albatross just decimates them.
Alternatively, they could just move Crystology to their classic set. It would let Paladin actually play their reborn quest again, and give them a nice niche.
Yet another expac with ZERO support for Reborn Paladin, looks like Blizz specifically hate Pally players.
With Crystology gone that entire archtype is trash. Instead we have shitty librams with their shitty effects that are so underpowered and slow. Sigh.