Hello. Can someone explain why warrior class always is'nt 1-2 tier on meta?
What's wrong with this class!?
2 year ago it was the best class. But the whole year of mamoth warrior cards are mostly useless while other class have crazy cards. Next expansion with the rotation warrior will be in a good position again
Latest set of nerfs gave OTK and combo decks more favorable matchups with the meta, so they have been played more. Decks like this can close the game on their terms, where odd control warrior usually aims to run their opponent out of resources. as such, worse matchups for warrior are more common in this meta.
Well, Warrior is actually Tier 2 right now with Odd Warrior and Odd Quest Warrior. But personally, for the past year, it seems to me like the expansions have really enabled Control Warriors counters. Without giving it much to fight back. Blizz seems to absolutely refuse to help Warrior in the Aggro department, so control is all with which the class is left. And that's going to fall short when you have a meta full of turn 9 80 damage OTKs, cards that read "Win the game", retarded value like Frost Lich Jaina and Zul'Jin. Thankfully Wall Priest is popular and that's something Warrior can beat all day.
Much of Whisper of the Old Gods meta game was dubbed "Warrior Stone" by the community, because Warrior had about five Tier 1/2 decks (Dragon, Control. C'Thun, Tempo, and Worgen-OTK).
How quickly they forget.
BTW, both Odd Warrior (with/without Quest) and Rush Warrior are perfectly fine now.
I've been playing rush / tempo warrior lately, and I feel like many other classes just seem to have more big swing plays that are unfairly costed. The advantage you have (dictating trades) is only good if the other player has a slowish start, and you have very little in the way of "special" features, beside the spirit. Hunter can build sticky boards that can instantly generate value or offence in the DR and recruit variant, and even though midrange is a winnable match, their draw card is insane and they have lots of powerful buff effects. There are too many AOEs and hard removals right now - control mage and priest are nuts, not to mention odd warrior. I think it will be good if the next set continues to slow down the power level, and there are less obviously broken plays. Honestly, how anyone thought cube or diamond spellstone was a good idea is beyond me. Right now, nothing stays dead. Good but fair and balanced minions don't seem to cut it anymore.
I've been playing rush / tempo warrior lately, and I feel like many other classes just seem to have more big swing plays that are unfairly costed. The advantage you have (dictating trades) is only good if the other player has a slowish start, and you have very little in the way of "special" features, beside the spirit. Hunter can build sticky boards that can instantly generate value or offence in the DR and recruit variant, and even though midrange is a winnable match, their draw card is insane and they have lots of powerful buff effects. There are too many AOEs and hard removals right now - control mage and priest are nuts, not to mention odd warrior. I think it will be good if the next set continues to slow down the power level, and there are less obviously broken plays. Honestly, how anyone thought cube or diamond spellstone was a good idea is beyond me. Right now, nothing stays dead. Good but fair and balanced minions don't seem to cut it anymore.
This is a great and in depth opinion, thanks for posting. I'd be curious as to what decks you struggle against or what you've teched in. Big mage for the most part is my nemesis and the flavour of the month Mid range hunter if they play mostly on curve are a pain but other decks are beatable.
I also agree that not drawing your early minions can be problematic. I'll post some games later on but one clutch card I've found useful is Marin. Intended as an anti-Cthun card his random treasure does often help.
Beyond that, I think Odd Warrior has been very strong recently but accept its counters have been more prevalent.
I climbed to rank 1 and recently collected my golden Garrosh (also my final golden hero!!) with a rush warrior, but like user Fog_za mentioned, it's really a snowball deck. If you lose the board early, you're toast. Control warrior builds are good, but really expensive. Warrior's current best cards are mostly epic, if not legendary. The result is not a huge fraction of the player base can afford to play the best warrior decks.
I've been playing Warrior since the start and it's probably my favourite class, along with Warlock. I remember being top dog with OG Patron Warrior, Pirate Warrior, C'thun Warrior and the old school Wallet Warrior.
Things have been harder recently but I've had some success with a Rush/Keleseth Deck and an (admittedly greedy) Dragon Control Warrior. As others have mentioned the biggest stumbling block for Warrior at the moment as the fact that the best cards are Epics and Legendaries. This makes getting together a solid Warrior deck can be an expensive proposition and therefore the Class suffers.
Hopefully after the Rotation and the new expac things will be a little different.
I've been playing rush / tempo warrior lately, and I feel like many other classes just seem to have more big swing plays that are unfairly costed. The advantage you have (dictating trades) is only good if the other player has a slowish start, and you have very little in the way of "special" features, beside the spirit. Hunter can build sticky boards that can instantly generate value or offence in the DR and recruit variant, and even though midrange is a winnable match, their draw card is insane and they have lots of powerful buff effects. There are too many AOEs and hard removals right now - control mage and priest are nuts, not to mention odd warrior. I think it will be good if the next set continues to slow down the power level, and there are less obviously broken plays. Honestly, how anyone thought cube or diamond spellstone was a good idea is beyond me. Right now, nothing stays dead. Good but fair and balanced minions don't seem to cut it anymore.
This is a great and in depth opinion, thanks for posting. I'd be curious as to what decks you struggle against or what you've teched in. Big mage for the most part is my nemesis and the flavour of the month Mid range hunter if they play mostly on curve are a pain but other decks are beatable.
I also agree that not drawing your early minions can be problematic. I'll post some games later on but one clutch card I've found useful is Marin. Intended as an anti-Cthun card his random treasure does often help.
Beyond that, I think Odd Warrior has been very strong recently but accept its counters have been more prevalent.
I'm playing standard so Cthun isn't really an issue :), and I doubt my experiences will be interesting to a wild player lol
I've been playing rush / tempo warrior lately, and I feel like many other classes just seem to have more big swing plays that are unfairly costed. The advantage you have (dictating trades) is only good if the other player has a slowish start, and you have very little in the way of "special" features, beside the spirit. Hunter can build sticky boards that can instantly generate value or offence in the DR and recruit variant, and even though midrange is a winnable match, their draw card is insane and they have lots of powerful buff effects. There are too many AOEs and hard removals right now - control mage and priest are nuts, not to mention odd warrior. I think it will be good if the next set continues to slow down the power level, and there are less obviously broken plays. Honestly, how anyone thought cube or diamond spellstone was a good idea is beyond me. Right now, nothing stays dead. Good but fair and balanced minions don't seem to cut it anymore.
This is a great and in depth opinion, thanks for posting. I'd be curious as to what decks you struggle against or what you've teched in. Big mage for the most part is my nemesis and the flavour of the month Mid range hunter if they play mostly on curve are a pain but other decks are beatable.
I also agree that not drawing your early minions can be problematic. I'll post some games later on but one clutch card I've found useful is Marin. Intended as an anti-Cthun card his random treasure does often help.
Beyond that, I think Odd Warrior has been very strong recently but accept its counters have been more prevalent.
I'm playing standard so Cthun isn't really an issue :), and I doubt my experiences will be interesting to a wild player lol
His maniacal mechanical counterpart Is though. I'm mostly standard and would be very interested.
As others have mentioned the biggest stumbling block for Warrior at the moment as the fact that the best cards are Epics and Legendaries. This makes getting together a solid Warrior deck can be an expensive proposition and therefore the Class suffers.
Same goes for most other classes. Warrior used to be infamous for being the most expensive class, but the difference between many of the current decks and old "Wallet Warrior" is nowhere near as big as it used to be, and some have even surpassed it. Hearthstone has gotten more expensive over the years as far as dust is concerned, simple as that.
Much of Whisper of the Old Gods meta game was dubbed "Warrior Stone" by the community, because Warrior had about five Tier 1/2 decks (Dragon, Control. C'Thun, Tempo, and Worgen-OTK).
How quickly they forget.
BTW, both Odd Warrior (with/without Quest) and Rush Warrior are perfectly fine now.
That was about two and a half years ago. Then came Pirate Warrior, but that also ended in Standard one and a half years ago in KFT. Some people haven't even played the game for that long. They have not forgotten, they did not witness it in the first place. And in that span of time EVERY other class was at least once the best or second best.
So, the confusion about Warrior being a somewhat mediocre class that hasn't been outstanding in quite a while is justified.
@Fog_za Rotation will definitely address this. Rush Warrior may end up being T1 simply because it's keeping almost all of its current cards and most other decks are losing almost all their cards. Most of the infinite value, huge swing, and efficient board clear cards are going to Wild. A few exceptions: Zul'jin, Mass Hysteria, Necrium Vial, Hagatha, Witching Hour, Dire Frenzy.
Some cards that aren't super strong now may end up being big swing cards after rotation, such as Shudderwock, Captain Hooktusk, Cannon Barrage, Silver Sword, Gloop Sprayer, Boomzooka + Revenge of the Wild, The Storm Bringer, Omega Agent, and The Boomship.
Only a few boardclears will remain after rotation, other than the Classic and Basic ones. Paladin's Equality combos are more expensive now but may still dominate. Other evergreen boardclears like Vanish and Flamestrike aren't going to be a huge problem on their own. Shrink Ray will probably be good. Mass Hysteria but it's tricky and Priest might not be strong. Warpath will be a staple. Cannon Barrage might be strong. Overall I think boardclears won't dominate the meta like they have been....depending on the next expansion.
And then we have the infinite value cards, which have been the worst oppressors for the past year and a half. Almost none will remain and that will probably be the thing that make the game feel very different. Only ones left: Hagatha and Jeklik.
I believe Patron Warrior and Pirate Warrior are two good examples of when Warrior was flying high in the Tier listings? A class can't always be up there, of course and they will have their turn in the shade now and then - look at how far Druid has fallen recently, and remember when Shaman was considered the most broken class in the game way back when?
I expect Warrior will get another turn soon enough. Odd Quest Warrior is still pretty high right now though.
I've been playing rush / tempo warrior lately, and I feel like many other classes just seem to have more big swing plays that are unfairly costed. The advantage you have (dictating trades) is only good if the other player has a slowish start, and you have very little in the way of "special" features, beside the spirit. Hunter can build sticky boards that can instantly generate value or offence in the DR and recruit variant, and even though midrange is a winnable match, their draw card is insane and they have lots of powerful buff effects. There are too many AOEs and hard removals right now - control mage and priest are nuts, not to mention odd warrior. I think it will be good if the next set continues to slow down the power level, and there are less obviously broken plays. Honestly, how anyone thought cube or diamond spellstone was a good idea is beyond me. Right now, nothing stays dead. Good but fair and balanced minions don't seem to cut it anymore.
This is a great and in depth opinion, thanks for posting. I'd be curious as to what decks you struggle against or what you've teched in. Big mage for the most part is my nemesis and the flavour of the month Mid range hunter if they play mostly on curve are a pain but other decks are beatable.
I also agree that not drawing your early minions can be problematic. I'll post some games later on but one clutch card I've found useful is Marin. Intended as an anti-Cthun card his random treasure does often help.
Beyond that, I think Odd Warrior has been very strong recently but accept its counters have been more prevalent.
I'm playing standard so Cthun isn't really an issue :), and I doubt my experiences will be interesting to a wild player lol
His maniacal mechanical counterpart Is though. I'm mostly standard and would be very interested.
I think advice from a better player and warrior specialist would be more helpful, but maybe you have tips for me :). Last month I got legend so I figured I'll try unfamiliar stuff, and typical Kele rush warrior worked well (other stuff not so much). Tons of rogues so I teched in double weapon removal and was finally winning in the legend ladder at an ok 60%. Also encountered lots of hunters / odd mages and it was going ok. Now, at rank 5, it's mostly priest, zoo, hunter again, and a patch of control decks (mage and odd warrior), which have hurt my winrate BADLY. If you can't break priest in the first 8 turns you're toast. I'm using the snowball deck with beserkers and hulks, and the typical rush stuff (no bears). Virtually no spells, I did try mortal strike which was so so, as was inner rage. Zihi is my only tech at the moment, don't have nerubians so can't comment - mixed success stalling powerful late game decks. Spellbreaker didn't yield much success for me. I find having so many minions and only limited draw through criers, and late draw through ashmore and the rhino can be frustrating, but you can't seem to let up pressure to play acolyte. When they have no answer to the beserkers it's great but that seems rare. I also find it's hard to set up a board that pressures priest but doesn't succumb easily to hysteria. Maybe I should try nerubians but I don't want to run things that rotate soon. Upgrade is sort of something I am trying now to make sulthraze more effective, but not too sure how good that is, too early to tell. Also trying out arathi Smith as it never sees play and I was curious as to why.
Btw, it really hard to play real wallet warrior now. Why? Because we do not have enough big minions finisher in Standard. Remember the past we can drop Sylvanas, Dr.Boom, Ragnaros, Alex,Ysera, Grommash turn after turn ? Now we have just Lich King and Grom and that not enough. Next expasion Warrior better have 1 strong late game legendary and also have 1 strong neutral late game Legendary like Lich King, otherwise Control Warrior have to play fatigue style again which may effective now given that many infinite value card gone and Warrior still have Dr.Boom which is psedo-infinite value. But that playstyle is very boring and not real classic control warrior experience
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Hello. Can someone explain why warrior class always is'nt 1-2 tier on meta?
What's wrong with this class!?
Warrior has been tier 1/2 plenty of times.
2 year ago it was the best class. But the whole year of mamoth warrior cards are mostly useless while other class have crazy cards. Next expansion with the rotation warrior will be in a good position again
Latest set of nerfs gave OTK and combo decks more favorable matchups with the meta, so they have been played more. Decks like this can close the game on their terms, where odd control warrior usually aims to run their opponent out of resources. as such, worse matchups for warrior are more common in this meta.
Well, Warrior is actually Tier 2 right now with Odd Warrior and Odd Quest Warrior. But personally, for the past year, it seems to me like the expansions have really enabled Control Warriors counters. Without giving it much to fight back. Blizz seems to absolutely refuse to help Warrior in the Aggro department, so control is all with which the class is left. And that's going to fall short when you have a meta full of turn 9 80 damage OTKs, cards that read "Win the game", retarded value like Frost Lich Jaina and Zul'Jin. Thankfully Wall Priest is popular and that's something Warrior can beat all day.
Much of Whisper of the Old Gods meta game was dubbed "Warrior Stone" by the community, because Warrior had about five Tier 1/2 decks (Dragon, Control. C'Thun, Tempo, and Worgen-OTK).
How quickly they forget.
BTW, both Odd Warrior (with/without Quest) and Rush Warrior are perfectly fine now.
remember pirate warrior?
I was in charge!! - Patches the Pirate
I've been playing rush / tempo warrior lately, and I feel like many other classes just seem to have more big swing plays that are unfairly costed. The advantage you have (dictating trades) is only good if the other player has a slowish start, and you have very little in the way of "special" features, beside the spirit. Hunter can build sticky boards that can instantly generate value or offence in the DR and recruit variant, and even though midrange is a winnable match, their draw card is insane and they have lots of powerful buff effects. There are too many AOEs and hard removals right now - control mage and priest are nuts, not to mention odd warrior. I think it will be good if the next set continues to slow down the power level, and there are less obviously broken plays. Honestly, how anyone thought cube or diamond spellstone was a good idea is beyond me. Right now, nothing stays dead. Good but fair and balanced minions don't seem to cut it anymore.
This is a great and in depth opinion, thanks for posting. I'd be curious as to what decks you struggle against or what you've teched in. Big mage for the most part is my nemesis and the flavour of the month Mid range hunter if they play mostly on curve are a pain but other decks are beatable.
I also agree that not drawing your early minions can be problematic. I'll post some games later on but one clutch card I've found useful is Marin. Intended as an anti-Cthun card his random treasure does often help.
Beyond that, I think Odd Warrior has been very strong recently but accept its counters have been more prevalent.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
I climbed to rank 1 and recently collected my golden Garrosh (also my final golden hero!!) with a rush warrior, but like user Fog_za mentioned, it's really a snowball deck. If you lose the board early, you're toast. Control warrior builds are good, but really expensive. Warrior's current best cards are mostly epic, if not legendary. The result is not a huge fraction of the player base can afford to play the best warrior decks.
I've been playing Warrior since the start and it's probably my favourite class, along with Warlock. I remember being top dog with OG Patron Warrior, Pirate Warrior, C'thun Warrior and the old school Wallet Warrior.
Things have been harder recently but I've had some success with a Rush/Keleseth Deck and an (admittedly greedy) Dragon Control Warrior. As others have mentioned the biggest stumbling block for Warrior at the moment as the fact that the best cards are Epics and Legendaries. This makes getting together a solid Warrior deck can be an expensive proposition and therefore the Class suffers.
Hopefully after the Rotation and the new expac things will be a little different.
4/3/19 RIP Keith Flint. 😔
I'm playing standard so Cthun isn't really an issue :), and I doubt my experiences will be interesting to a wild player lol
His
His maniacal mechanical counterpart Is though. I'm mostly standard and would be very interested.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
Same goes for most other classes. Warrior used to be infamous for being the most expensive class, but the difference between many of the current decks and old "Wallet Warrior" is nowhere near as big as it used to be, and some have even surpassed it. Hearthstone has gotten more expensive over the years as far as dust is concerned, simple as that.
That was about two and a half years ago. Then came Pirate Warrior, but that also ended in Standard one and a half years ago in KFT. Some people haven't even played the game for that long. They have not forgotten, they did not witness it in the first place. And in that span of time EVERY other class was at least once the best or second best.
So, the confusion about Warrior being a somewhat mediocre class that hasn't been outstanding in quite a while is justified.
@Fog_za Rotation will definitely address this. Rush Warrior may end up being T1 simply because it's keeping almost all of its current cards and most other decks are losing almost all their cards. Most of the infinite value, huge swing, and efficient board clear cards are going to Wild. A few exceptions: Zul'jin, Mass Hysteria, Necrium Vial, Hagatha, Witching Hour, Dire Frenzy.
Some cards that aren't super strong now may end up being big swing cards after rotation, such as Shudderwock, Captain Hooktusk, Cannon Barrage, Silver Sword, Gloop Sprayer, Boomzooka + Revenge of the Wild, The Storm Bringer, Omega Agent, and The Boomship.
Only a few boardclears will remain after rotation, other than the Classic and Basic ones. Paladin's Equality combos are more expensive now but may still dominate. Other evergreen boardclears like Vanish and Flamestrike aren't going to be a huge problem on their own. Shrink Ray will probably be good. Mass Hysteria but it's tricky and Priest might not be strong. Warpath will be a staple. Cannon Barrage might be strong. Overall I think boardclears won't dominate the meta like they have been....depending on the next expansion.
And then we have the infinite value cards, which have been the worst oppressors for the past year and a half. Almost none will remain and that will probably be the thing that make the game feel very different. Only ones left: Hagatha and Jeklik.
I believe Patron Warrior and Pirate Warrior are two good examples of when Warrior was flying high in the Tier listings?
A class can't always be up there, of course and they will have their turn in the shade now and then - look at how far Druid has fallen recently, and remember when Shaman was considered the most broken class in the game way back when?
I expect Warrior will get another turn soon enough.
Odd Quest Warrior is still pretty high right now though.
I think advice from a better player and warrior specialist would be more helpful, but maybe you have tips for me :). Last month I got legend so I figured I'll try unfamiliar stuff, and typical Kele rush warrior worked well (other stuff not so much). Tons of rogues so I teched in double weapon removal and was finally winning in the legend ladder at an ok 60%. Also encountered lots of hunters / odd mages and it was going ok. Now, at rank 5, it's mostly priest, zoo, hunter again, and a patch of control decks (mage and odd warrior), which have hurt my winrate BADLY. If you can't break priest in the first 8 turns you're toast. I'm using the snowball deck with beserkers and hulks, and the typical rush stuff (no bears). Virtually no spells, I did try mortal strike which was so so, as was inner rage. Zihi is my only tech at the moment, don't have nerubians so can't comment - mixed success stalling powerful late game decks. Spellbreaker didn't yield much success for me. I find having so many minions and only limited draw through criers, and late draw through ashmore and the rhino can be frustrating, but you can't seem to let up pressure to play acolyte. When they have no answer to the beserkers it's great but that seems rare. I also find it's hard to set up a board that pressures priest but doesn't succumb easily to hysteria. Maybe I should try nerubians but I don't want to run things that rotate soon. Upgrade is sort of something I am trying now to make sulthraze more effective, but not too sure how good that is, too early to tell. Also trying out arathi Smith as it never sees play and I was curious as to why.
Do you guys run early game taunts for tempo? Like creepers or saronites? And how do feel about keleseth, is it the best way to go?
Only If I play a Corpsetaker build, I like to have another taunt alongside Lich King (if you play Fungalmancer, Saronite is probably better).
Btw, it really hard to play real wallet warrior now. Why? Because we do not have enough big minions finisher in Standard. Remember the past we can drop Sylvanas, Dr.Boom, Ragnaros, Alex,Ysera, Grommash turn after turn ? Now we have just Lich King and Grom and that not enough. Next expasion Warrior better have 1 strong late game legendary and also have 1 strong neutral late game Legendary like Lich King, otherwise Control Warrior have to play fatigue style again which may effective now given that many infinite value card gone and Warrior still have Dr.Boom which is psedo-infinite value. But that playstyle is very boring and not real classic control warrior experience