1st: i chose 5 and not 4 because the true value of the card is 4.5mana. The battlecry is a hit or miss - but when it hits it becomes a good card. When not, it's a worse fen creeper. So it balances out.
2nd: too low in power to be of any real use. You can cast it on a minion that has at most 4 health to prevent it from attacking, but the opponent can still keep it just to lethal your face or destroy a huge threat, making it a 2 for 2 cards.
3rd: the only reason I think it should be 5 mana and not 4 is because of the rhyno that gives it charge. That combo should be 10 mana and not 9.
They should simply get rid of the classic and basic cards at this point if they want people to buy the new stuff. It is all about the money, not about design or fairness.
Even if you consider the nerfs to be healthly for the metagame, which I don't, it doesn't address the elephant in the room. Just do what Brian Kibler suggested and make your classic and basic sets have a rotating cards. So if you see that OTK decks are too oppressive, you can bring back Dirty Rat to combat those decks without needing to print a new card that doesnt really answer it, or only 1 class can answer those decks (warlock).
So if you think Cold Blood is too oppressive in Odd Rogue, then move it to Wild for now and put a new card from Wild in its place instead. The ability to change your basic and classic cards on a rotating business will bring NEW life to older cards, but change the meta in ways that cannot be easily predicted.
This satisfies what the players want AND what Blizzard wants. Blizzard wants money and this will mean people will have to spend money/dust in order to get the newly rotated cards if they don't have them. Players get a healthy meta and relevant classic and basic cards for free to play players.
It's an easy win-win for all. Instead they decide to slowly bleed out classic and basic so that the new player will have a miserable experience AND have to spend lots of money to compete. You know why I spent money on this game in the beginning? I wanted to reward their free to play experience and wanted to have fun on a higher level by playing more competitive decks.
If you think I and others are using hyperbole regarding losing standard and classic cards, think about all the classic and basic cards in other classes. Go ahead, I will give you a moment. Now think about all of the cards that are included in every 'Warrior' deck. Do this for every class and you will see what cards are going to get nerfed next.
This is a prediction post, as well as a warning to Blizzard. This will drive people away and new players will NOT stick around.
So what cards are included in most of the competitive decks for each class?
Druid has been hit so much lately, but some cards are still left. Swipe, Wrath are still used.
Hunter has been hit too, but there are a few gems left. Tracking, Animal Companion, Kill Command, Freezing Trap, Eaglehorn Bow, Deadly Shot, Savannah Highmane. Any of these sound familiar?
Mage lost some of its early game stuff, but there are cards to get nerfed still. Blizzard, Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental and Flamestrike.
Paladin has a few to give up still. Blessing of Kings, Consecration, Truesilver, Divine Favor.
Priest is strange in that these cards are used in every type of OTK deck, but not as competitive. Will they be touched? Inner Fire, Northshire Cleric, Power Word: Shield, Mind Blast, Divine Spirit.
Rogue has been hammered hard already, but what else can we get rid of? Sap, Fan of Knives, Eviscerate, SI:7 Agent.
Shaman had some tools nerfed already, but here are a few more. Mana Tide Totem, Lightning Storm, Fire Elemental.
Warlock is not the greatest in its Classic and Basic, but why the heck not, get rid of these too. Soulfire, VoidWalker, Hellfire, Flame Imp, Doomguard, Twisting Nether.
Warrior is going to get hit too. They already nerfed a few staples, let's keep it going shall we? Shield Slam, Brawl, Execute, Shield Block.
There, go ahead and nerf all of THESE cards above too while you are at it Blizzard. That way no one uses any Classic or Basic cards at all. That will make the new player feel great.
Just compare it to Blessing of Might and tell me with a straight face that it's good game design.
Each Class has its own sinergies and interactions, so making a comparison between Class specific spell is just like saying that football and soccer are the same thing because there are two team trying to score points while running on a grass field.
About a card's mana cost: you're right. The total mana cost of each card should be the result of different factor, each one adding some value to it. But that was something could be done as a math calculation back in the early game of HS when mechanics were simple and the card pool was very limited. At now days is not so true anymore (and that - imho - it's a shame).
I also agree that whole Classic should never a fixed point in Standard: they should "re-print" a selected pool of cards each new Year, in order to give themselves a better margin for new cards to shine without the need to make costant nerf. Also Basic should be re-done for all Classes, because some are really terrible and force the devs to re-print costantly the same cards (like Priest need a consistent board clear each time, because Holy Nova is just horrible but they've always pushed the Class toward a Control/OTK-style that need such a card type to properly work).
There are still way too many op cards. Most OP sets rotate out soon and now they try to fix some extra strong cards from the classic set to allow for more variety. I welcome these changes (with Emerald Spellstone I mean 12/12 of stats for 5 mana, yea...it's obvious isn't it?).
You have to keep in mind that Blizzard is collecting stats regarding cards/decks played constantly. We don't have this information. They have a huge amount of data and balance the game according to these stats. I'm glad they nerf now faster than ever and I believe they will continue doing so until the power level reaches the cards that will rotate out soon anyways. Only then they have a healthy base power level and can balance their new sets accordingly.
(with Emerald Spellstone I mean 12/12 of stats for 5 mana, yea...it's obvious isn't it?).
People always get this wrong. It's 12/12 of stats for 9 mana, not 5; over 3 cards, not 1. Without paying the 4 mana worth of secrets, it is literally just 6/6 of stats for 5 mana.
(with Emerald Spellstone I mean 12/12 of stats for 5 mana, yea...it's obvious isn't it?).
People always get this wrong. It's 12/12 of stats for 9 mana, not 5; over 3 cards, not 1. Without paying the 4 mana worth of secrets, it is literally just 6/6 of stats for 5 mana.
Uhm...yes...you play two secrets before. But then it's still 12/12 on turn 5.
(with Emerald Spellstone I mean 12/12 of stats for 5 mana, yea...it's obvious isn't it?).
People always get this wrong. It's 12/12 of stats for 9 mana, not 5; over 3 cards, not 1. Without paying the 4 mana worth of secrets, it is literally just 6/6 of stats for 5 mana.
So secrets have 0 value for you? What if wandering moster summons Mukla? Is there a requeriment to play the secrets the same turn as the spellstone? Does the secrets have addional sinergies, like a weapon that increases its durability? No, it's not 12/12 for 9.
When you combine all the effects of a card their inherent mana costs should add up to the total cost of the card.
These two statements don't and shouldn't always follow. Powerful cards are an essential part of game design. You need to make powerful cards even if you're giving the game away for free. There is such a thing as a good powerful card, especially (like Emerald Spellstone), when it creates synergies and new decks, or (like Lich King) gives you a flavorful fun era in the game, or when you're highlighting a class's strengths (Death's Bite).
Trying to balance every card is not the goal of card design. Understanding each card's function, and the best power level for that function, is the real goal.
(with Emerald Spellstone I mean 12/12 of stats for 5 mana, yea...it's obvious isn't it?).
People always get this wrong. It's 12/12 of stats for 9 mana, not 5; over 3 cards, not 1. Without paying the 4 mana worth of secrets, it is literally just 6/6 of stats for 5 mana.
Uhm...yes...you play two secrets before. But then it's still 12/12 on turn 5.
And if you didn't have 2 secrets on the previous turns? Put it this way. How are you going to get your 12/12 of stats for 5 mana if you were given 5 mana to start and just this card?
So secrets have 0 value for you? What if wandering moster summons Mukla? Is there a requeriment to play the secrets the same turn as the spellstone? Does the secrets have addional sinergies, like a weapon that increases its durability? No, it's not 12/12 for 9.
You shouldn't try and put words into people's mouths like that. It's sloppy debating. I never said secrets have 0 value. In fact, I said the complete opposite. I said they cost 2 mana each. Which you need to pay to make the Spellstone provide 12/12 of stats.
Tell you what, if you can show how you can get 12/12 of stats on turn 5 with the Emerald Spellstone without playing any secrets beforehand (on this or any other turn), I'll accept you are right. Otherwise, you're simply wrong. The secrets dont even have to do anything. They could literally do nothing at all. But you still have to pay the cost for them to get the spellstone value.
Rotating the core set is a bad idea. What do you rotate it with? Most sets we have are designed to interact with basic and classic, have cards specifically designed to interact with the cards they coexisted with. You can break the game in 20 different ways and still not solve the problem. Also now you have to farm up an additional set.
Rotating the core set is a bad idea. What do you rotate it with? Most sets we have are designed to interact with basic and classic, have cards specifically designed to interact with the cards they coexisted with. You can break the game in 20 different ways and still not solve the problem. Also now you have to farm up an additional set.
Each Year of the Animal, you pick an appropriate number of cards from Classic/Basic, and those are allowed to be used that year. The rest are banned. The sets are designed with the Basic and Classic cards that are available in mind.
In Year of the Next Animal, you pick a different set of cards from Basic/Classic, then ban the remainder. Etc.
@op: costs for cards: 5 / 1 / 5
1st: i chose 5 and not 4 because the true value of the card is 4.5mana. The battlecry is a hit or miss - but when it hits it becomes a good card. When not, it's a worse fen creeper. So it balances out.
2nd: too low in power to be of any real use. You can cast it on a minion that has at most 4 health to prevent it from attacking, but the opponent can still keep it just to lethal your face or destroy a huge threat, making it a 2 for 2 cards.
3rd: the only reason I think it should be 5 mana and not 4 is because of the rhyno that gives it charge. That combo should be 10 mana and not 9.
"I, for one, welcome our new Meca'thun and OTK Overlords..."
No, scratch that. I really don't. This new meta is going to be hell now that OTK decks are going to run amok. Sigh...
They should simply get rid of the classic and basic cards at this point if they want people to buy the new stuff. It is all about the money, not about design or fairness.
Even if you consider the nerfs to be healthly for the metagame, which I don't, it doesn't address the elephant in the room. Just do what Brian Kibler suggested and make your classic and basic sets have a rotating cards. So if you see that OTK decks are too oppressive, you can bring back Dirty Rat to combat those decks without needing to print a new card that doesnt really answer it, or only 1 class can answer those decks (warlock).
So if you think Cold Blood is too oppressive in Odd Rogue, then move it to Wild for now and put a new card from Wild in its place instead. The ability to change your basic and classic cards on a rotating business will bring NEW life to older cards, but change the meta in ways that cannot be easily predicted.
This satisfies what the players want AND what Blizzard wants. Blizzard wants money and this will mean people will have to spend money/dust in order to get the newly rotated cards if they don't have them. Players get a healthy meta and relevant classic and basic cards for free to play players.
It's an easy win-win for all. Instead they decide to slowly bleed out classic and basic so that the new player will have a miserable experience AND have to spend lots of money to compete. You know why I spent money on this game in the beginning? I wanted to reward their free to play experience and wanted to have fun on a higher level by playing more competitive decks.
If you think I and others are using hyperbole regarding losing standard and classic cards, think about all the classic and basic cards in other classes. Go ahead, I will give you a moment. Now think about all of the cards that are included in every 'Warrior' deck. Do this for every class and you will see what cards are going to get nerfed next.
This is a prediction post, as well as a warning to Blizzard. This will drive people away and new players will NOT stick around.
So what cards are included in most of the competitive decks for each class?
Druid has been hit so much lately, but some cards are still left. Swipe, Wrath are still used.
Hunter has been hit too, but there are a few gems left. Tracking, Animal Companion, Kill Command, Freezing Trap, Eaglehorn Bow, Deadly Shot, Savannah Highmane. Any of these sound familiar?
Mage lost some of its early game stuff, but there are cards to get nerfed still. Blizzard, Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental and Flamestrike.
Paladin has a few to give up still. Blessing of Kings, Consecration, Truesilver, Divine Favor.
Priest is strange in that these cards are used in every type of OTK deck, but not as competitive. Will they be touched? Inner Fire, Northshire Cleric, Power Word: Shield, Mind Blast, Divine Spirit.
Rogue has been hammered hard already, but what else can we get rid of? Sap, Fan of Knives, Eviscerate, SI:7 Agent.
Shaman had some tools nerfed already, but here are a few more. Mana Tide Totem, Lightning Storm, Fire Elemental.
Warlock is not the greatest in its Classic and Basic, but why the heck not, get rid of these too. Soulfire, VoidWalker, Hellfire, Flame Imp, Doomguard, Twisting Nether.
Warrior is going to get hit too. They already nerfed a few staples, let's keep it going shall we? Shield Slam, Brawl, Execute, Shield Block.
There, go ahead and nerf all of THESE cards above too while you are at it Blizzard. That way no one uses any Classic or Basic cards at all. That will make the new player feel great.
Each Class has its own sinergies and interactions, so making a comparison between Class specific spell is just like saying that football and soccer are the same thing because there are two team trying to score points while running on a grass field.
About a card's mana cost: you're right. The total mana cost of each card should be the result of different factor, each one adding some value to it. But that was something could be done as a math calculation back in the early game of HS when mechanics were simple and the card pool was very limited. At now days is not so true anymore (and that - imho - it's a shame).
I also agree that whole Classic should never a fixed point in Standard: they should "re-print" a selected pool of cards each new Year, in order to give themselves a better margin for new cards to shine without the need to make costant nerf. Also Basic should be re-done for all Classes, because some are really terrible and force the devs to re-print costantly the same cards (like Priest need a consistent board clear each time, because Holy Nova is just horrible but they've always pushed the Class toward a Control/OTK-style that need such a card type to properly work).
For what profit is it to a man, if he gains the world and loses his own soul?
There are still way too many op cards. Most OP sets rotate out soon and now they try to fix some extra strong cards from the classic set to allow for more variety. I welcome these changes (with Emerald Spellstone I mean 12/12 of stats for 5 mana, yea...it's obvious isn't it?).
You have to keep in mind that Blizzard is collecting stats regarding cards/decks played constantly. We don't have this information. They have a huge amount of data and balance the game according to these stats. I'm glad they nerf now faster than ever and I believe they will continue doing so until the power level reaches the cards that will rotate out soon anyways. Only then they have a healthy base power level and can balance their new sets accordingly.
Football and Soccer ARE the same thing. It's called "Football".
*hides*
People always get this wrong.
It's 12/12 of stats for 9 mana, not 5; over 3 cards, not 1.
Without paying the 4 mana worth of secrets, it is literally just 6/6 of stats for 5 mana.
Uhm...yes...you play two secrets before. But then it's still 12/12 on turn 5.
So secrets have 0 value for you? What if wandering moster summons Mukla? Is there a requeriment to play the secrets the same turn as the spellstone? Does the secrets have addional sinergies, like a weapon that increases its durability? No, it's not 12/12 for 9.
I will crush you!
These two statements don't and shouldn't always follow. Powerful cards are an essential part of game design. You need to make powerful cards even if you're giving the game away for free. There is such a thing as a good powerful card, especially (like Emerald Spellstone), when it creates synergies and new decks, or (like Lich King) gives you a flavorful fun era in the game, or when you're highlighting a class's strengths (Death's Bite).
Trying to balance every card is not the goal of card design. Understanding each card's function, and the best power level for that function, is the real goal.
And if you didn't have 2 secrets on the previous turns?
Put it this way. How are you going to get your 12/12 of stats for 5 mana if you were given 5 mana to start and just this card?
You shouldn't try and put words into people's mouths like that. It's sloppy debating. I never said secrets have 0 value. In fact, I said the complete opposite. I said they cost 2 mana each. Which you need to pay to make the Spellstone provide 12/12 of stats.
Tell you what, if you can show how you can get 12/12 of stats on turn 5 with the Emerald Spellstone without playing any secrets beforehand (on this or any other turn), I'll accept you are right. Otherwise, you're simply wrong.
The secrets dont even have to do anything. They could literally do nothing at all. But you still have to pay the cost for them to get the spellstone value.
Rotating the core set is a bad idea. What do you rotate it with? Most sets we have are designed to interact with basic and classic, have cards specifically designed to interact with the cards they coexisted with. You can break the game in 20 different ways and still not solve the problem. Also now you have to farm up an additional set.
Each Year of the Animal, you pick an appropriate number of cards from Classic/Basic, and those are allowed to be used that year. The rest are banned. The sets are designed with the Basic and Classic cards that are available in mind.
In Year of the Next Animal, you pick a different set of cards from Basic/Classic, then ban the remainder. Etc.
Your cards for me would be 5-3-5.