Personally i feel that cubelock got too much of a nerf, the lackey nerf alone was perfect in my opinion since it would slow the deck a turn which is very much welcome but the nerf to dark pact is, to me, too much taking into account the lackey nerf, while by itself the nerf isnt that big (most of the time dark pact is used to kill the minion and the healing is a plus) since now cubelock will need to stall another turn before cheating demons the heal is more important because 1 extra turn on demon cheating with lackey=1 extra turn of possible face damage.
Basically what im trying to say is that just lackey nerf was enough, there was no need to nerf dark pact too.
Not a native speaker so maybe i fucked up somewhere but at least i tried
Yes there was. The developer reasoning that there was too much healing in the deck is valid. Warlocks class identity has always had to balance risk vs reward since beta.
The advent of Kobolds and Catacombs with its up-gradable spell cards that carry extra healing (spellstones) for marginal damage AND the 1-cost Dark Pact mitigated these risks far too much. Across those four cards at full power, Warlocks have more (burst) healing than other classes that have typically been more more adept as healers.
Personally, I think these are a really good set of nerfs. I'd have loved to seen the recruit mechanic being binned entirely though.
I agree that the Dark Pact nerf was kinda harsh, but If the card stayed the same, a turn 7 Voidlord + heal 8 is still too good. The only problem I ahve is it is probably not even worth to play it on anything else than the Cube or Lackey, because it only heals for 4 (I used to play it on Librarian when really needed).
But anyway, let's be proud because we're gonna get a whole different meta right now, hopefully a lot of good decks will pop up for a wide variety
DK warlock (after the nerf of CtA) will be the more broken OP card in this game history, only pre-nerf version of some cards can be compared and for some reason escape again from the most deserved nerf of all time.
What they waiting for? A week before rotation like f...... Patches?
Yup I agree with the OP. If anyone thinks these nerfs are justified just remember the last deck that had 2 of it's cards nerfed. It was Jade Druid in the early KotFT meta. Yes...the deck that had like 40% legend ladder representation and 60% winrate while also not really having viable tech cards ( Skulking Geist often got you killed because of the tempo loss ) . That's the kind of deck that should receive 2 nerfs, not just any tier 1 deck that also has plenty of ways to counter it like Cubelock / Control Warlock.
To be honest these are the worst nerfs Blizz ever did in my opinion.
DK warlock (after the nerf of CtA) will be the more broken OP card in this game history, only pre-nerf version of some cards can be compared and for some reason escape again from the most deserved nerf of all time.
What they waiting for? A week before rotation like f...... Patches?
bingo. this barely makes a difference with CTA getting nerfed. warlock still has 2x hellfire, 2x defile, spell stone healing, and can run doomsayers, tar creeper, stonehill defender... plenty of early game control.
so all the minion based decks can be relevant for exactly one more turn before warlock builds an unbreakable wall of taunt, and then plays the incredibly broken gul'dan to summon everything back if you happen to clear it.
warlock is going to remain broken for a long time.
Guys I don't wanna look like I want to flame but it seems to me that you haven't played hearthstone in the last exp. The nerf is imo super soft, 1 turn later and 4 less healing for the ""combo"" is harsh but the deck is still insane, and considering the amount of control/healing provided by defiles, hellfires, spellstone(!) and having still the really strong weapon as a turn 5 I think that the impact isn't going to be that significant, considering the harsher nerf on aggro(call to arms and spiteful). Probably face Hunter is going to pop up, but at least a more controlly version of cube lock (someone brought it to hct) is going to survive as a good deck
Cube and doomguard were bigger problems than dark pact. I can get on board with the lackey nerf, and I think that guldan could have been nerfed to dealing 2 damage. I played renolock to legend in wild this season, and I'll still be using lackey, but dark pact will be removed.
if there were to be any nerfs to cubelock, i think it should have ONLY been to reduce Dark Pact's healing from 8 to 6, and MAYBE to reduce Bloodreaver Gul'dan's hero power damage/healing from 3 to 2. so yeah, definite overkill. void lord is a great card, but its not in the least bit threatening, i have no idea why people freak out when people spend 2 cards to get one out a couple turns early. as far as mana cheating goes, its about as small and innocuous a cheat as there is in the game. doomguards are a much more dangerous minion to get out, but its not even a mana cheat (just a battlecry cheat), and comboing it out means you can't cube it on the same turn, so its not even that great in many situations to do so. give me a cubelock to play against ANY day over scumbag aggro paladins or mages or spiteful jackasses.
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"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
Nope, lackey is a problem because cheating voidlord to early is problematic.
Pact + Spellstone could give warlock at least 22 healing (for a max of 30) in class that has the best hero power in the game and the balance was always lack of healing, warlock always dominated when good neutral healing cards were printed. Its no simple coincidence that renolock was the last good warlock deck before KaC. If warlock has access to heal it can easily assemble combos and thats a big part of why you feel like Turn 6 Lackey + Pact always happen right now.
I always find it funny when people that netdeck cubelock bitch about it being nerfed. its been the best deck since the Raza nerf and there is literally no bad matchups for cubelock.
It will still be all over the ladder until next spring, unless a good tech card comes out next expansion. I don't see this weakening it enough.
My thoughts exactly. I don't think it will affect it hardly at all. The biggest problem in the deck was Doomguard charge, especially from Gul"Dan, and that wasn't touched.
Voidlord's are a pain in the ass, but they rarely beat you. Having 2 or 3 or more 5/7 chargers coming at you at once ... gets ya every time
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I wanna glide down, over Mulholland I wanna write her, name in the sky I wanna free fall, out into nothin' Gonna leave this, world for awhile
well honestly the mixture role out it effect cubelock now this neft will kill the deck for good i think .i already dominate cubelock rightnow with tempo mage and baku hunter
The deck is still going to be nuts. If anything, it wasn't nerfed enough.
Lackey can still get huge mana cheats. Dark pact's motive was to enable Lackey and Cube. Gul'dan gets his huge board regardless. None of these facts are changing.
It's a pretty harsh nerf but it's also mitigated a bit by the nerfs to Call to Arms and Spiteful Summoner.
I don't think it's going to see Lackey or Pact removed from the deck because you can't rely solely on Skull to cheat out demons and you need healing, but I think Cubelock will have to start skewing more towards anti-aggro, maybe dipping back into the classic Handlock bag of tricks.
Or maybe it'll just be replaced with Rin Control and Zoolock.
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Personally i feel that cubelock got too much of a nerf, the lackey nerf alone was perfect in my opinion since it would slow the deck a turn which is very much welcome but the nerf to dark pact is, to me, too much taking into account the lackey nerf, while by itself the nerf isnt that big (most of the time dark pact is used to kill the minion and the healing is a plus) since now cubelock will need to stall another turn before cheating demons the heal is more important because 1 extra turn on demon cheating with lackey=1 extra turn of possible face damage.
Basically what im trying to say is that just lackey nerf was enough, there was no need to nerf dark pact too.
Not a native speaker so maybe i fucked up somewhere but at least i tried
just use reveller instead you get a minion to boot happy days new tech old deck
Yes there was. The developer reasoning that there was too much healing in the deck is valid. Warlocks class identity has always had to balance risk vs reward since beta.
The advent of Kobolds and Catacombs with its up-gradable spell cards that carry extra healing (spellstones) for marginal damage AND the 1-cost Dark Pact mitigated these risks far too much. Across those four cards at full power, Warlocks have more (burst) healing than other classes that have typically been more more adept as healers.
Personally, I think these are a really good set of nerfs. I'd have loved to seen the recruit mechanic being binned entirely though.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
I agree that the Dark Pact nerf was kinda harsh, but If the card stayed the same, a turn 7 Voidlord + heal 8 is still too good. The only problem I ahve is it is probably not even worth to play it on anything else than the Cube or Lackey, because it only heals for 4 (I used to play it on Librarian when really needed).
But anyway, let's be proud because we're gonna get a whole different meta right now, hopefully a lot of good decks will pop up for a wide variety
I think is nerfed too soft.
DK warlock (after the nerf of CtA) will be the more broken OP card in this game history, only pre-nerf version of some cards can be compared and for some reason escape again from the most deserved nerf of all time.
What they waiting for? A week before rotation like f...... Patches?
Yup I agree with the OP. If anyone thinks these nerfs are justified just remember the last deck that had 2 of it's cards nerfed. It was Jade Druid in the early KotFT meta. Yes...the deck that had like 40% legend ladder representation and 60% winrate while also not really having viable tech cards ( Skulking Geist often got you killed because of the tempo loss ) . That's the kind of deck that should receive 2 nerfs, not just any tier 1 deck that also has plenty of ways to counter it like Cubelock / Control Warlock.
To be honest these are the worst nerfs Blizz ever did in my opinion.
Overkill nerf. Now aggro will dominance everywhere
Guys I don't wanna look like I want to flame but it seems to me that you haven't played hearthstone in the last exp. The nerf is imo super soft, 1 turn later and 4 less healing for the ""combo"" is harsh but the deck is still insane, and considering the amount of control/healing provided by defiles, hellfires, spellstone(!) and having still the really strong weapon as a turn 5 I think that the impact isn't going to be that significant, considering the harsher nerf on aggro(call to arms and spiteful). Probably face Hunter is going to pop up, but at least a more controlly version of cube lock (someone brought it to hct) is going to survive as a good deck
actually it should have been nerfed more... they got off lucky with these nerfs as pact and lackey are still very playable.
Cube and doomguard were bigger problems than dark pact. I can get on board with the lackey nerf, and I think that guldan could have been nerfed to dealing 2 damage. I played renolock to legend in wild this season, and I'll still be using lackey, but dark pact will be removed.
It will still be all over the ladder until next spring, unless a good tech card comes out next expansion. I don't see this weakening it enough.
Oh no, you have to wait an extra turn to play a Voidlord!
You poor baby, now you have to wait till turn 7 to play a 9 cost minion!
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
if there were to be any nerfs to cubelock, i think it should have ONLY been to reduce Dark Pact's healing from 8 to 6, and MAYBE to reduce Bloodreaver Gul'dan's hero power damage/healing from 3 to 2. so yeah, definite overkill. void lord is a great card, but its not in the least bit threatening, i have no idea why people freak out when people spend 2 cards to get one out a couple turns early. as far as mana cheating goes, its about as small and innocuous a cheat as there is in the game. doomguards are a much more dangerous minion to get out, but its not even a mana cheat (just a battlecry cheat), and comboing it out means you can't cube it on the same turn, so its not even that great in many situations to do so. give me a cubelock to play against ANY day over scumbag aggro paladins or mages or spiteful jackasses.
"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear turns into a cat and eats you." - Anonymous Druid
Nope, lackey is a problem because cheating voidlord to early is problematic.
Pact + Spellstone could give warlock at least 22 healing (for a max of 30) in class that has the best hero power in the game and the balance was always lack of healing, warlock always dominated when good neutral healing cards were printed. Its no simple coincidence that renolock was the last good warlock deck before KaC. If warlock has access to heal it can easily assemble combos and thats a big part of why you feel like Turn 6 Lackey + Pact always happen right now.
I always find it funny when people that netdeck cubelock bitch about it being nerfed. its been the best deck since the Raza nerf and there is literally no bad matchups for cubelock.
Hearthstone is a game of "copy and pasting"
Voidlord's are a pain in the ass, but they rarely beat you. Having 2 or 3 or more 5/7 chargers coming at you at once ... gets ya every time
I wanna glide down, over Mulholland
I wanna write her, name in the sky
I wanna free fall, out into nothin'
Gonna leave this, world for awhile
well honestly the mixture role out it effect cubelock now this neft will kill the deck for good i think .i already dominate cubelock rightnow with tempo mage and baku hunter
The deck is still going to be nuts. If anything, it wasn't nerfed enough.
Lackey can still get huge mana cheats. Dark pact's motive was to enable Lackey and Cube. Gul'dan gets his huge board regardless. None of these facts are changing.
Cubelock ain't going anywhere.
It's a pretty harsh nerf but it's also mitigated a bit by the nerfs to Call to Arms and Spiteful Summoner.
I don't think it's going to see Lackey or Pact removed from the deck because you can't rely solely on Skull to cheat out demons and you need healing, but I think Cubelock will have to start skewing more towards anti-aggro, maybe dipping back into the classic Handlock bag of tricks.
Or maybe it'll just be replaced with Rin Control and Zoolock.