I’ve been thinking a lot about Hearthstone this week in the wake of the Un’goro expansion. It’s a game that I’ve sunk a lot of time and money into, with more hours played than anything else in my library other than say, Destiny or Diablo 3 these past few years.
Yet it’s hard to feel like the game isn’t in a bit of a downward spiral as of late. Revenue has been falling pretty sharply on mobile, and a bit on the desktop version as well, which has led Blizzard to try and extract more and more money out of Hearthstone to compensate. Now, that’s led us to a point where Adventures no longer exist, and old drop rates and duplicates now feel oppressive due to the fact that there’s an extra expansion per year, and this latest one is designed around must-have legendaries that are hard to get.
My solution? Blizzard should dump 50 free Un’goro packs on every player, full stop.
This is not me saying “Blizz messed up, give us free stuff plz.” Rather, I genuinely believe this is the kind of gesture that Blizzard needs to consider for its fans, maybe for this expansion especially, yes, but possibly for all future expansions going forward, for the sake of the overall health of the game.
I know 50 packs sounds like a whole lot, but in truth, it actually isn’t, given current drop rates. Every time a new expansion comes out I do my grand “100 pack opening” post, and if players got half that? Well, you might be on your way to a few cool new decks, but you’d still be way, way far away from anything resembling a complete collection, or the ability to build multiple great decks based on the new cards.
According to my stats from this go-round, in 50 packs you would probably end up with:
- 150 commons
- 50 rares
- 10 epics
- 3 legendaries if you’re extremely lucky, 2 on average, 1 if you’re unlucky, hitting the 40 pack “mercy” threshold.
- Maybe 1100-1200 dust from duplicates, almost all the way to a craftable legendary
To me, this is the kind of “starter package” that Hearthstone should be offering its players for free, especially in an era when there are ~22 legendaries in an expansion and duplicates are common. The most I have ever seen them give away has been something like 10 packs during Gadgetzan, but this time around it was less than that, 4-5 I believe. But I think Blizzard needs to run the other direction here, and try generosity in order to improve player morale and bolster the health of the game.
I said in a previous post that Hearthstone is becoming physically exhausting for F2P players and financially exhausting for paying players. Right now, free players can earn maybe 40-60 gold a day on average from completing a quest, then 100 extra gold max if they get thirty wins in a day, which is many, many hours of play, depending on their winrate. What that means is that they can save up for ages, ending up buying 50-100 packs with in-game gold, and still feel like they only have a fraction of the cards for a new expansion.
For paying players like me who are okay with dropping $120 on launch day like I did to get 100 packs, to do that and get 3 legendaries and two duplicates among them is dispiriting, and now with a third expansion coming each year, Hearthstone feels like a subscription MMO with a ludicrously high monthly cost on average.
But there are more problems that Blizzard’s lack of card generosity creates than simple exhaustion and ill-will. The less cards are available to players, the more stale the game becomes. This is why cheap, simple decks take over the metagame across most of the ladder.
What happens is that when legendaries are so rare, and players can only get one or two of those plus a few epics out of dozens, they craft whatever the cheap, popular deck is and play it to death in order to be remotely competitive. A while ago that might have been Face Hunter with Leeory. The last few weeks/months that meant running Patches in Pirate Warrior as the sole legendary in an otherwise super cheap deck. Now it seems to be Quest Rogue, which requires only the legendary quest and a bunch of other cards most players already have. No, these decks do not usually have crazy win rates, but they have flooded the ladder because with the limited resources players have, they have sunk them into “winning” decks rather than feeling able to experiment.
Hearthstone has many core problems with experimental play and the format of the ladder, but the simple fact of players not having that many cards because of how stingy the distribution system is remains a significant part of the problem. This has been especially amplified in Un’goro with the focus on quests because there are potentially nine interesting quest decks right off the bat to play around with, except you can buy/earn 50-100 packs and end up with one or two quests at best, and sometimes none at all.
This is a hype-killer. I have watched F2P friends get really into Hearthstone but quit when they realized they had to essentially save up for months for one legendary they wanted. I have seen paying players realize that their money is better invested into a rival card game that will give them more bang for their buck (*cough* Gwent).
The best way for Blizzard to fight this is with some measure of generosity, and while I don’t think 50 packs will solve all these problems, and there are core issues that need to be addressed, it’s a start. It would encourage diversity of play, it would bring old players back to at least see what they got, and it would be far from handing out a complete set to players given how little you will actually get from even 50 whole packs in this current format.
Something has to change or Hearthstone is going to eat itself. There’s an Overwatch event later today where I will probably shell out $80 and get every new optional legendary skin offered. But to pay the same or more for necessary cards in a Hearthstone expansion and barely end up with anything because of RNG? It’s enough to make you want to throw in the towel for good, and Blizzard needs to see past short term profits to see that.
Yeah, I had a friend get in and leave because it was crushing in the sense of progression and unable to make cool decks without spending money. It's amazing how the shitheads at Blizz constantly harp on their care for returning players being a reason for not balancing their game properly and changing broken cards, but they really don't do shit for new players to bring them in. Double quest rewards was the single best thing a new, f2p player could ask for and they took it away.
This was actually the first time I preordered the 50 packs. And honestly, I wasn't toooo impressed with what I ended up getting haha. I think, in 60 packs, I got 3 legendaries (which I know is an average rate, I got a 4th one shortly after actually), but I feel like they weren't the "must have" legendaries. I ended up crafting the dk's I wanted, and I still need to craft many others (most notably The Lich King). I think I also ended up getting like 900 dust (not including disenchanting "useless" cards, which I'm always skeptical of haha).
Either way, I'm still gonna keep playing because I'm a chump lol.
I do wish they even had something as simple as a "first win of the day" gold bonus, but oh well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I don't think a one-time "here, have 50 packs" will fix the problem. Rather, making packs more valuable (changing the drop rates, like they've been doing), or making it easier to get packs (bonus gold per day or something) would be more useful. Because if you just give everybody 50 packs and send them off, there's now a lot less incentive to play (and to pay), since each pack is further devalued, at least psychologically. But making more plentiful daily rewards would get the best of both worlds, enabling players to play the decks they want to play, while also making playing feel rewarding.
Just my 2 cents, I'm enjoying reading over others' responses.
Today in my free brawl pack I got Barongeddon, then I had a cup of fresh green tea. As a result of that, I think Priest is OP because my keyboard is not a mechanical one. I hope Blizzard will address this issue.
This was actually the first time I preordered the 50 packs. And honestly, I wasn't toooo impressed with what I ended up getting haha. I think, in 60 packs, I got 3 legendaries (which I know is an average rate, I got a 4th one shortly after actually), but I feel like they weren't the "must have" legendaries. I ended up crafting the dk's I wanted, and I still need to craft many others (most notably The Lich King). I think I also ended up getting like 900 dust (not including disenchanting "useless" cards, which I'm always skeptical of haha).
Either way, I'm still gonna keep playing because I'm a chump lol.
I do wish they even had something as simple as a "first win of the day" gold bonus, but oh well.
This was actually the first time I preordered the 50 packs. And honestly, I wasn't toooo impressed with what I ended up getting haha. I think, in 60 packs, I got 3 legendaries (which I know is an average rate, I got a 4th one shortly after actually), but I feel like they weren't the "must have" legendaries. I ended up crafting the dk's I wanted, and I still need to craft many others (most notably The Lich King). I think I also ended up getting like 900 dust (not including disenchanting "useless" cards, which I'm always skeptical of haha).
Either way, I'm still gonna keep playing because I'm a chump lol.
I do wish they even had something as simple as a "first win of the day" gold bonus, but oh well.
That's actually pretty good. I'm approaching 70 packs and still at 2 legendary cards. Granted I'm f2p so I won't be able to open more than 100 packs this expansion before I start saving for the next one, but I would love to get at least 4 total. I would love to get 50 few packs because I've decided to stop spending money on this game and expect my dust to only last 1 or 2 more expansions. Used to have 24k, down to 11k now with only crafting paladin and mage dk and a few epics
Agreed. Been playing since Naxx, and ever since it just feels like the game is more about which cards u have than what ur skill is, so for a new player to start off in that environment is just daunting. Obviously legendaries are meant to be powerful, thats why people want them. So compare someone who buys 100 packs real money to someone who buys 100 packs with gold, if the money spender got 3 legendaries, then the gold spender should get no less than that. But since its all RNG, neither method matters, so that increases the need for luck even higher. Its a game that casuals can play IF they have the cards, but getting them is another story.
I used to be an F2P all the uptill ungoro and believe i had the shittiest of collection, barely had any legendaries worth mentioning, id dust most of them cuz they were trash, i remember starting this game and getting nozdormu as my first legendary, Seeing as the card is even worse than a simple common like loot hoarder i was soooooo disappointing that i quit the game, later started playing the game again around old gods and got both nat the darkfisher and shifter zerus, both absolute shit and pathetic cards made by blizzard (filler legendaries)
Suffice to say as soon i opened my wallet i atleast got above avg. That being said i feel unless rng heavily favors u its extremely harsh and difficult to be an F2P player, Hearthstone devs dont really give 2 shits abt F2P players i don't think they realize most people are not willing to throw hundreds if they aren't guaranteed anything in return. Hearthstone also seems to be extremely greedy when it comes to free rewards.
Its honestly unbelievable they did the fire festival and gave out a free legendary. I see most people going abt "Oh you're gonna shit talk them when they giving out free stuff" Yea im gonna shit talk them who tf needs fight promoter why not give out something better or just 100 dust straight away, have atleast quests worth only 60 and above so everyone can get atleast one pack a day. Have another alternative to earn some coins, better ladder rewards maybe idk but as it is, its honestly disgusting.
Im suprised it took them this long to add the no duplicate legendary rule FFS.
I think the free 50 should be for new players only. Anything more would be just be greed and is frankly really just unlikely to happen. The new players need the help anyways. Rank 20-15 has like 80% completed net decks that classic cards can't do shit against.
They should just introduce tons of achievements allready with small package prices. If the rewards are small package amounts + badges everyone has goals to work towards to. New players get enough packs to compete while older players aren't punished for being longer in the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who can take your trash out? Stomp it down for you? Shake the plastic bag and do the twisty thingy, too?
I think Blizzard needs to do something fast. But this looks like suicide. Hardly as many players would buy the initial Preorder Bundle. And it would render it irrelevant to open Rares and Commons in later packs, as you would get most of them from these packs.
What i'd however rather see, which is probaly also more likely due to a business perspective is alternative pack options. Lets say you can pay 800 or 1000 dust to roll a random legendary. Or make a 1000 gold pack that gives you 4 epics and a Legendary. Or some stuff like that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
Yeah, frozen throne feels like a moneygrab to be honest. It is so evident that a lot of the big shiny cards are meant to be completely necessary from new expansions, with very little room for subbing.
I'm not an F2P player, my professional life doesn't allow me the time to do that. Instead I have usually bought the adventures and the pre-purchase offers on non-adventure expansions. My thinking has been that I treat every release as I would a game, and I'm willing to pay about what I pay for a game when they come.
This has allowed me to largely have a rather complete set for 3-4 classes and the most competitive decks for each class by the time we reach a new expansion. I've been happy with that. I'm not a very competitive player, I usually do rank 5 and leave it that.
Now I see that collecting is much more intensive. Cards are much harder to substitute, it is unlikely that I will be able to collect for much more than 2 classes given how much I can play, and they're very blatantly throwing class balancing around to make sure some classes suddenly end up in the dumpster and a new class suddenly becomes the "must thing" to play.
I think at this point I think it is clear other games are fast becoming better alternatives for purchase.
And yes, the "no duplicate" seems like a nice gesture. But it really isn't. For players who don't go for complete collections but rely on dusting cards, it doesn't do anything at all. It's more an incentive to buy more packs (I realize some of you don't do that, but that is irrelevant to my point).
I still don't know why we are not able to buy a pack everyday. As it stands you can buy a pack every 2 days, or maybe 2 packs every 3 days.
I literally have no incentive to log-in every day in HS.
The no duplicate legendary does shit for me, as I open them so infrequently and they always are the most worthless legendaries of every expansion. Some of my "amazing" pulls include: The Skeleton Knight, Shifter Zerus, Anomalus, Illidan Stormrage, Iron Juggernaut, Professor Putricide and the list goes on....
Don't get me started on epics. I think I have opened 10 kidnappers...
I've spend a lot of time in HS. I feel I should be awarded with a "oh yes, I pulled THAT card" for once.
You can open a pack and a half to be precise,with 100g for 30 wins and the quest its about 150 on average.Not blizzards fault you are bored playing their game to get some wins.
In my opinion,as a new player you are doomed to start playing the game.You will eventually need to drop high amounts of $ to get going.At least when you learn the game and want to be competitive.Otherwise its impossible.
As for veterans,the plan is different.Even if a veteran starts a new account he can do good if he averages 7 arena wins.You get a nonstop arena action every day.And thats a pack+dust+collection.
But you cant expect a new player to do well in arena,at least for the first 4-5 months of practising it.Thats why i say new players are doomed if f2p.
I still don't know why we are not able to buy a pack everyday. As it stands you can buy a pack every 2 days, or maybe 2 packs every 3 days.
I literally have no incentive to log-in every day in HS.
The no duplicate legendary does shit for me, as I open them so infrequently and they always are the most worthless legendaries of every expansion. Some of my "amazing" pulls include: The Skeleton Knight, Shifter Zerus, Anomalus, Illidan Stormrage, Iron Juggernaut, Professor Putricide and the list goes on....
Don't get me started on epics. I think I have opened 10 kidnappers...
I've spend a lot of time in HS. I feel I should be awarded with a "oh yes, I pulled THAT card" for once.
You can open a pack and a half to be precise,with 100g for 30 wins and the quest its about 150 on average.Not blizzards fault you are bored playing their game to get some wins.
30 wins a day? With a 50% winrate that's 60 games. Assuming 10 minutes a game (it's actually more) that's 6 hours to get a pack. Blizzard prices 2 packs at 3 Euros.
So to get the equivalent of 3 euros, I have to work for 12 hours.
I'm not saying that blizzard should pay me as an employee, but the current system is an excuse and not a solution.
It's actually more of a blackmail to me: "Oh you don't dare to pay for our glorious product? Then you better suffer 12 long hours of grind. Or you can be smart and give us your money!!! It's not like we are labeling our game F2P or anything"
And for the record, I don't think giving us 50 free packs is fair either. That's just way too much and even if it would happen I could still open crap cards (like I always do).
Obviously you have never played an mmorpg game where you need to farm hours of hours on end to stay in the top.
I vote no, just because giving 50 packs changes nothing. Biggest problem of HS is dusting system. Losing 3/4 of "dust cost" is kinda killing deck building oportunity for F2P, or "low donations" players(like me). Disenchanting now is loss-loss system. A way to change everything is simple: dusting not for 1/4 of dust cost, but for 3/4. This will give F2P or low budget players more design freedom to create decks(this goes both for original decks and tryhard decks), without getting "richys" privilege to get all collection as fast as possible.
In my opininon the fundamental problem of f2P players is the frustration that no matter how hard you grind your ass off you will not be able to open more than 1 pack a day on average . HS is not rewarding enough to play on a daily basis. The solution to that is just to make better log in/win reward system. This solution also can adress the f2P player experience problem in the long run.
This thread cannot be serious - please tell me this is a troll. The most retarded idea i've ever heard and it seems like this is serious. First of all - they wouldn't ever do that, they don't give that much for choose a champion or joining on new expansion. Second - they shouldn't do that. People are forgetting that you don't need to get all cards from the new/old expansions!!! You don't even need to unpack any of the good cards - just dust garbage and craft them!
Look at most new decks in this meta - most of the time it's up to 3-5 new cards and it's often just rares and commons (supeeer cheap). This game is not supposed to be a sandbox where you get so much free stuff everything is unlocked - the game is obviously either spend some timem playing to get a decent collection or just pay for it. There already are sooo many free promotions like the recruit a friend packs (which you can do yourself), mobile promotions packs, packs from icecrown, legendaries in 10 first packs of each expansion (for new players) etc.
Personally i've played since Old Gods, spent like 30 USD MAX at the game and i can afford like the top decks for every 9 classes in standard. And at first i was f2p so it's not like i boosted myself 30 USD at the beginning, i don't even play a lot and i can afford that. It's also thanks to the hall of fame rotation that gave some nice dust.
I actually kinda agree, the part about ppl playing mostly the cheapest best performing decks is not entirely wrong and is a good observation.
One thing tho, the no dupplicate rule introduced with KFT does make some of those arguments quite obsolete, good post overall tho ;-)
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Yeah, I had a friend get in and leave because it was crushing in the sense of progression and unable to make cool decks without spending money. It's amazing how the shitheads at Blizz constantly harp on their care for returning players being a reason for not balancing their game properly and changing broken cards, but they really don't do shit for new players to bring them in. Double quest rewards was the single best thing a new, f2p player could ask for and they took it away.
I think they should give us a free pack per day. I'm seriously thinking about Gwent .-.
This was actually the first time I preordered the 50 packs. And honestly, I wasn't toooo impressed with what I ended up getting haha. I think, in 60 packs, I got 3 legendaries (which I know is an average rate, I got a 4th one shortly after actually), but I feel like they weren't the "must have" legendaries. I ended up crafting the dk's I wanted, and I still need to craft many others (most notably The Lich King). I think I also ended up getting like 900 dust (not including disenchanting "useless" cards, which I'm always skeptical of haha).
Either way, I'm still gonna keep playing because I'm a chump lol.
I do wish they even had something as simple as a "first win of the day" gold bonus, but oh well.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
I don't think a one-time "here, have 50 packs" will fix the problem. Rather, making packs more valuable (changing the drop rates, like they've been doing), or making it easier to get packs (bonus gold per day or something) would be more useful. Because if you just give everybody 50 packs and send them off, there's now a lot less incentive to play (and to pay), since each pack is further devalued, at least psychologically. But making more plentiful daily rewards would get the best of both worlds, enabling players to play the decks they want to play, while also making playing feel rewarding.
Just my 2 cents, I'm enjoying reading over others' responses.
#gNOmeferatu
Agreed. Been playing since Naxx, and ever since it just feels like the game is more about which cards u have than what ur skill is, so for a new player to start off in that environment is just daunting. Obviously legendaries are meant to be powerful, thats why people want them. So compare someone who buys 100 packs real money to someone who buys 100 packs with gold, if the money spender got 3 legendaries, then the gold spender should get no less than that. But since its all RNG, neither method matters, so that increases the need for luck even higher. Its a game that casuals can play IF they have the cards, but getting them is another story.
I honestly hate to admit but this is soo true.
I used to be an F2P all the uptill ungoro and believe i had the shittiest of collection, barely had any legendaries worth mentioning, id dust most of them cuz they were trash, i remember starting this game and getting nozdormu as my first legendary, Seeing as the card is even worse than a simple common like loot hoarder i was soooooo disappointing that i quit the game, later started playing the game again around old gods and got both nat the darkfisher and shifter zerus, both absolute shit and pathetic cards made by blizzard (filler legendaries)
Suffice to say as soon i opened my wallet i atleast got above avg. That being said i feel unless rng heavily favors u its extremely harsh and difficult to be an F2P player, Hearthstone devs dont really give 2 shits abt F2P players i don't think they realize most people are not willing to throw hundreds if they aren't guaranteed anything in return. Hearthstone also seems to be extremely greedy when it comes to free rewards.
Its honestly unbelievable they did the fire festival and gave out a free legendary. I see most people going abt "Oh you're gonna shit talk them when they giving out free stuff" Yea im gonna shit talk them who tf needs fight promoter why not give out something better or just 100 dust straight away, have atleast quests worth only 60 and above so everyone can get atleast one pack a day. Have another alternative to earn some coins, better ladder rewards maybe idk but as it is, its honestly disgusting.
Im suprised it took them this long to add the no duplicate legendary rule FFS.
I think the free 50 should be for new players only. Anything more would be just be greed and is frankly really just unlikely to happen. The new players need the help anyways. Rank 20-15 has like 80% completed net decks that classic cards can't do shit against.
They should just introduce tons of achievements allready with small package prices. If the rewards are small package amounts + badges everyone has goals to work towards to. New players get enough packs to compete while older players aren't punished for being longer in the game.
Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag
and do the twisty thingy, too?
I think Blizzard needs to do something fast. But this looks like suicide. Hardly as many players would buy the initial Preorder Bundle. And it would render it irrelevant to open Rares and Commons in later packs, as you would get most of them from these packs.
What i'd however rather see, which is probaly also more likely due to a business perspective is alternative pack options. Lets say you can pay 800 or 1000 dust to roll a random legendary. Or make a 1000 gold pack that gives you 4 epics and a Legendary. Or some stuff like that.
I want a new title, but Flux won't let me have one,
Yeah, frozen throne feels like a moneygrab to be honest. It is so evident that a lot of the big shiny cards are meant to be completely necessary from new expansions, with very little room for subbing.
I'm not an F2P player, my professional life doesn't allow me the time to do that. Instead I have usually bought the adventures and the pre-purchase offers on non-adventure expansions. My thinking has been that I treat every release as I would a game, and I'm willing to pay about what I pay for a game when they come.
This has allowed me to largely have a rather complete set for 3-4 classes and the most competitive decks for each class by the time we reach a new expansion. I've been happy with that. I'm not a very competitive player, I usually do rank 5 and leave it that.
Now I see that collecting is much more intensive. Cards are much harder to substitute, it is unlikely that I will be able to collect for much more than 2 classes given how much I can play, and they're very blatantly throwing class balancing around to make sure some classes suddenly end up in the dumpster and a new class suddenly becomes the "must thing" to play.
I think at this point I think it is clear other games are fast becoming better alternatives for purchase.
And yes, the "no duplicate" seems like a nice gesture. But it really isn't. For players who don't go for complete collections but rely on dusting cards, it doesn't do anything at all. It's more an incentive to buy more packs (I realize some of you don't do that, but that is irrelevant to my point).
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
In my opinion,as a new player you are doomed to start playing the game.You will eventually need to drop high amounts of $ to get going.At least when you learn the game and want to be competitive.Otherwise its impossible.
As for veterans,the plan is different.Even if a veteran starts a new account he can do good if he averages 7 arena wins.You get a nonstop arena action every day.And thats a pack+dust+collection.
But you cant expect a new player to do well in arena,at least for the first 4-5 months of practising it.Thats why i say new players are doomed if f2p.
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
Just Another Legend Player#Kappa
I vote no, just because giving 50 packs changes nothing. Biggest problem of HS is dusting system. Losing 3/4 of "dust cost" is kinda killing deck building oportunity for F2P, or "low donations" players(like me). Disenchanting now is loss-loss system. A way to change everything is simple: dusting not for 1/4 of dust cost, but for 3/4. This will give F2P or low budget players more design freedom to create decks(this goes both for original decks and tryhard decks), without getting "richys" privilege to get all collection as fast as possible.
In my opininon the fundamental problem of f2P players is the frustration that no matter how hard you grind your ass off you will not be able to open more than 1 pack a day on average . HS is not rewarding enough to play on a daily basis. The solution to that is just to make better log in/win reward system. This solution also can adress the f2P player experience problem in the long run.
This thread cannot be serious - please tell me this is a troll. The most retarded idea i've ever heard and it seems like this is serious. First of all - they wouldn't ever do that, they don't give that much for choose a champion or joining on new expansion. Second - they shouldn't do that. People are forgetting that you don't need to get all cards from the new/old expansions!!! You don't even need to unpack any of the good cards - just dust garbage and craft them!
Look at most new decks in this meta - most of the time it's up to 3-5 new cards and it's often just rares and commons (supeeer cheap). This game is not supposed to be a sandbox where you get so much free stuff everything is unlocked - the game is obviously either spend some timem playing to get a decent collection or just pay for it. There already are sooo many free promotions like the recruit a friend packs (which you can do yourself), mobile promotions packs, packs from icecrown, legendaries in 10 first packs of each expansion (for new players) etc.
Personally i've played since Old Gods, spent like 30 USD MAX at the game and i can afford like the top decks for every 9 classes in standard. And at first i was f2p so it's not like i boosted myself 30 USD at the beginning, i don't even play a lot and i can afford that. It's also thanks to the hall of fame rotation that gave some nice dust.
Guess what? The main purpose Hearthstone is to generate money for Blizzard. Nothing wrong with that.
And if giving 50 free packs would generate more income over the long-term than not doing so, it's pretty likely Blizzard would've figured that out
Fuck cubelock