I don't think anyone really saw it coming. The Rogue quest is extremely difficult to evaluate without playtesting, as figuring out exactly how reliably you can fulfill the condition cannot be calculated in any simple manner. Lots of people commented that it can be strong if it can be made consistent, but no one was able to fully evaluate if it can.
Obviously, Blizzard must have known, because even the first unrefined lists proved to be highly consistent.
That said, Rogue is less dominating than it is meta-defining. There are lots of decks that completely wipe out Rogue such as Pirate Warrior, Zoo, and Aggro Druid. However, all the slow decks perish when facing the Quest Rogue, even more so than against Jade Druid. Interestingly enough by the way, Taunt Warrior is very close to be able to outlast the Rogue, so if that puzzle can be solved, Warrior could actually outlast the control deck killer of the new meta - Jades were literally impossible to outlast, but Rogue has a limited number of minions.
I don't think anyone really saw it coming. The Rogue quest is extremely difficult to evaluate without playtesting, as figuring out exactly how reliably you can fulfill the condition cannot be calculated in any simple manner. Lots of people commented that it can be strong if it can be made consistent, but no one was able to fully evaluate if it can.
Obviously, Blizzard must have known, because even the first unrefined lists proved to be highly consistent.
That said, Rogue is less dominating than it is meta-defining. There are lots of decks that completely wipe out Rogue such as Pirate Warrior, Zoo, and Aggro Druid. However, all the slow decks perish when facing the Quest Rogue, even more so than against Jade Druid. Interestingly enough by the way, Taunt Warrior is very close to be able to outlast the Rogue, so if that puzzle can be solved, Warrior could actually outlast the control deck killer of the new meta - Jades were literally impossible to outlast, but Rogue has a limited number of minions.
I disagree that rogue is the control killer deck of this expansion. The real control killer is exodia mage which will always win if it makes it to its win condition. There are also some control decks with enough AOE removal to survive the rogue onslaught. Interestingly enough, Dirty Rat can work well against both of these decks.
I just watched Dog stream when he started to play with it: someone asked him to play it, then he said - it's crap, but I will do. After 2 or 3 wins he still said that it is crap, and he just got very good draws. It took him several games to realize that the deck is really good.
I agree with Old Guardian that the problem with the deck isn't that it is so effective - but the effect that it has on the meta. The reward of this deck is so huge, and comes so early, that it kills any slow archetype that relies on board. Jade only killed control decks that plan on going into fatigue, any other deck could kill it in some points of the game.
Exodia mage is very similar to freeze mage, you need to go through all of your deck, and if you do - you win. It was always easier to do such things against control - but it doesn't make the deck "control killer".
Exodia mage is very similar to freeze mage, you need to go through all of your deck, and if you do - you win. It was always easier to do such things against control - but it doesn't make the deck "control killer".
It's obscenely easy to cycle through your whole deck when you're playing against a deck that is slower. Their AOE and heals are dead cards against you. It's a control killer because they are unable to kill you before you get your win condition off. At least they could heal up against Freeze Mage after Alex. They can't do that with Exodia and armor means nothing.
i think noxious was the most correct one at evaluating it, but he forgot ferryman, i also did the firefly quest wich is more consistent to do the quest than the one that dog played but dog's one is better when you play the quest
Everyone predicted that every Rogue card besides Slayer in the set was unplayable IIRC. Currently. it looks like the only actually unplayable card is Razorleaf Volley.
Was rogue quest predicted? Yes. As soon as people realized they could use elementals to achieve it, most people intended to play this as their first ungoro deck.
what wasn't predicted was the effectiveness of ferryman, brewmasters and shadoestep in achieving the quest without use of elementals, but that is difficult to predict, since it requires playtEsting.
what wasn't predicted was the effectiveness of ferryman, brewmasters and shadoestep in achieving the quest without use of elementals, but that is difficult to predict, since it requires playtEsting.
If you have the time to read this post you will see that the effectiveness was predicted too with simulations.
Let's not continue making thread upon thread to discuss this card. There's plenty of existing discussion in the following thread to answer your question. Let's continue this there.
So I'm curious, did anyone (be it a "pro" player/streamer or casuals) predict that rogue would be so dominant, or even powerful in the new meta?
Disclaimer: I know the meta is just forming and I know some will say that rogue is not all that it's made out to be, but still curious.
Thanks!
No, they didn't
I don't think anyone really saw it coming. The Rogue quest is extremely difficult to evaluate without playtesting, as figuring out exactly how reliably you can fulfill the condition cannot be calculated in any simple manner. Lots of people commented that it can be strong if it can be made consistent, but no one was able to fully evaluate if it can.
Obviously, Blizzard must have known, because even the first unrefined lists proved to be highly consistent.
That said, Rogue is less dominating than it is meta-defining. There are lots of decks that completely wipe out Rogue such as Pirate Warrior, Zoo, and Aggro Druid. However, all the slow decks perish when facing the Quest Rogue, even more so than against Jade Druid. Interestingly enough by the way, Taunt Warrior is very close to be able to outlast the Rogue, so if that puzzle can be solved, Warrior could actually outlast the control deck killer of the new meta - Jades were literally impossible to outlast, but Rogue has a limited number of minions.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/OldGuardian
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Twitter: https://twitter.com/Old_GuardianHS
Blog: http://www.kilkku.com/oldguardian/
I just watched Dog stream when he started to play with it: someone asked him to play it, then he said - it's crap, but I will do. After 2 or 3 wins he still said that it is crap, and he just got very good draws. It took him several games to realize that the deck is really good.
I agree with Old Guardian that the problem with the deck isn't that it is so effective - but the effect that it has on the meta. The reward of this deck is so huge, and comes so early, that it kills any slow archetype that relies on board. Jade only killed control decks that plan on going into fatigue, any other deck could kill it in some points of the game.
Exodia mage is very similar to freeze mage, you need to go through all of your deck, and if you do - you win. It was always easier to do such things against control - but it doesn't make the deck "control killer".
Nah, the HS community is notoriously bad at evaluating new cards. Remember, the forums said Dr Boom was a 'fun' card.
I remember many people saying it's the worst quest out of them all.
I thought it would be insanely powerful, but I was naive, and thought it would be great with Shadowcaster. Barely playable that way.
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i think noxious was the most correct one at evaluating it, but he forgot ferryman, i also did the firefly quest wich is more consistent to do the quest than the one that dog played but dog's one is better when you play the quest
source: https://youtu.be/d_5cEsi9AO4?t=28m54s
Everyone thought it was bad for two reasons:
1. They thought it would be harder to play four minions with the same name then it turned out to be; and,
2. The card was 5 mana. People thought that you couldn't play a bunch of small minions and then a 5 mana card when the meta was so aggressive
Shaku, the Collector gave me the Plague
Everyone predicted that every Rogue card besides Slayer in the set was unplayable IIRC. Currently. it looks like the only actually unplayable card is Razorleaf Volley.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
Was rogue quest predicted? Yes. As soon as people realized they could use elementals to achieve it, most people intended to play this as their first ungoro deck.
what wasn't predicted was the effectiveness of ferryman, brewmasters and shadoestep in achieving the quest without use of elementals, but that is difficult to predict, since it requires playtEsting.
Yes, Amaz said it was 1-star. And got destroyed on the 1st day by it.
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Let's not continue making thread upon thread to discuss this card. There's plenty of existing discussion in the following thread to answer your question. Let's continue this there.
New Rogue Quest - The Caverns Below (Crystal Core)
Locked.