more tribes are the right direction though. more tribes and new keywords/mechanics.
see heres the thing. I've played magic and Force of Will and I actually like tribes in those games (especially the wererabbits of FoW because I'm a weaboo lol), so I agree with you there, but the difference is that in magic and force of will, everything has a tribe automatically, and the tribes don't get pushed nearly as hard as they do in hearthstone. Blizzard is FORCING elementals just like they did with jades, dragons, and mechs. They're deliberately making elementals as powerful as possible, because in the past, people whined about things like dragons and inspire not being competitive.(to me the fact that they were balanced made them a lot more fun and interesting to me.)
Like I said, they've only released like 6 of them so far and theres ANOTHER 20 LEFT. The ones they've released so far are already insane. 7 mana 4 4 with 2 2/3s with taunt is broken as fuck. 4 4 =3.5 mana (usually 3 mana 4 4s have some downside playing them) and 2 2/3 taunts = Feral Spirit = 5 mana, and there's no overload here. 8.5 mana value for 7 mana PLUS tribe activator.... It's not nearly as broken as Drakonid Operative thankfully, but who knows whats coming next. 4 mana 3 5 with divine shield taunt???? So Senjin Shieldmasta is a thing and a card that's actually decent enough to play. It's not broken so people don't play it, because only broken cards see play, but it's good enough. Divine Shield is a card that costs 1 mana. Every card with divine shield is priced 1 mana higher except for Shielded Minibot, which was a class card that was specifically designed to be broken because paladin was crap tier before GvG. So 3 5 divine shield taunt is a 5 drop that you get to play turn 4 for really no disadvantage because you already have a ton of options for early game elementals.
Tribes are also good in magic and FoW because none of them work like dragons/elementals, aka not requiring you to have tribe on board to get buff. Kinda like beasts and murlocs. No one complains about murlocs because you don't get the buff automatically. You actually have to make decisions and plan ahead of time and choose whether you want to wait for a power turn and play multiple murlocs at once, or gamble on it sticking. You get the dragon/elemental buffs for free, and your opponent can't play around it.
"when in fucks name did dragon priest or mech mage get overplayed?" do you play this game!??!?!? DUDE in GvG and before they released Flamewaker you'd literally see mech mage every other game (after Flamewaker it immediately switched to all tempo mage instead, which continued until LoE came out). It was the deck EVERY single streamer and pro told new players to disenchant their cards to craft. I went against HUNDREDS of mech mage players during GvG and I didn't even play that much back then. And back then, when it wasn't mech mage, it was mech shaman! And even during TgT when dragon priest wasn't that great, all of the timmies would play it and I'd go vs it maybe 1/4 games for the entire expansion. Now, it's like 1/3 games. Oh your logic of "just play control warrior to counter it" is exactly why we continue to have a shitty meta of stagnant 8 decks over and over again EVERY expansion. Because blizzard reads that shit and they think they did a good job balancing the game by having 5-8 viable decks in the entire meta that all counter each other.
Your own logic is flawed too because you can EASILY counter pirate warrior by playing control warrior, or by designing a deck with tons of heals and taunts. I played control warrior and had a 100% winrate vs pirate warrior over 10 games. That deck gets farmed by jade decks and reno warlock decks though because that's how the game is designed now. You're allowed to choose from 5 decks. And your reno warlock deck is actually the highest tiered deck in the game by the way. Dragon priest is also on a higher tier than pirate decks and is 1 of the few decks that actually has a win condition now in EVERY matchup, which is a rare thing now. Pirate decks aren't even good anymore after the nerf. And hey, id much rather lose turn 6 vs a pirate deck after me getting unlucky draws, then Q for a new game, than play vs a dragon priest, have them play an overpowered curve minon EVERY turn and then lock me out of the game by preventing me from doing ANYTHING until I finally get board control turn 7 or 8 after they inevitably missplay and greedily overextend and push to end the game after they're already winning the value game. (which they ALWAYS do) Then I'm left with 2-5 HP and then die after they discover my own cards and kill me. Or they continue to play overpowered minions for their mana cost until theres a turn where i can't clear the board, after they clear mine easily with Dragonfire Potion
I'll give you your argument on mech mage since I wasn't thinking clearly on my last post. But dragon priest was and is still not overplayed. The most it was played was right before standard came out and even then it wasn't the strongest. What I was getting at is that aggro decks nowadays are the least interactive decks of the game because they give you the least amount of chance to actually play your cards. Those decks and jade are what restricting the meta right now. You can't play any slow or fun decks because you either get beat down by the aggression or you get outvalued by jade (Fukin Jade Idol never going stop complaining about this card).
From the sound of things, you've been playing some kind of out of meta mid range deck because the pirates and jade decks should be pretty strong against dragon priest. I understand where your coming from that curve stone is all about those overpowered minions being played on curve without any brain is annoying af (drakanoid operative is incredibly stupid) but my argument is that the most aggressive decks and the jade mechanic are the things disrupting hearthstone right now. Wait until the whole expansion is released before you jump the gun on whether or not it'll be curve stone. They might release a minion that actually uses brains to play with.
Obviously you haven't played Ranked in the last week because you would then see how much Dragon priest is being playing. Almost 15% of the ladder is playing Dragon Priest with turn 8 lethals everywhere.
The Elemental mechanic is actually a hell of alot better than the dragon mechanic since it forces you to think about your following turns and how your going to curve out to maximise your elemental synergies. In dragon priest all you have to do is just hold on to your extra Twilight Welp and curve out. However the one way Blizzard could screw up the mechanic is if they print too many elemental cards. If it becomes to easy to just chain elementals into each other instead of having to play off curve every once in a while then it will loose all of the intended skill in the mechanic. Personally i would have liked the Stone Sentinal to have a different mana cost so it wouldn't be so easy to curve 6 - 7 - 8.
Obviously you haven't played Ranked in the last week because you would then see how much Dragon priest is being playing. Almost 15% of the ladder is playing Dragon Priest with turn 8 lethals everywhere.
Has it really changed that much? When I was reaching legend from March the beginning of march to a few days ago, I had a fair amount of dragon priests but it wasn't like I was running into them as frequently as pirate warrior and shaman.
The new elementals seem strong IF you get a perfect curve each game. The effects are very powerful, but I can see games where they could stumble and not get all of their triggers. It's not like Dragon Priests, who can hold on to a Twilight Whelp in the late game to turn on all of their dragon cards, Elementals will actually have to sequence well and make tough decisions.
It has also been mentioned that Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem are rotating, so Shaman is losing it's strong early game plays.
The new elementals seem strong IF you get a perfect curve each game. The effects are very powerful, but I can see games where they could stumble and not get all of their triggers. It's not like Dragon Priests, who can hold on to a Twilight Whelp in the late game to turn on all of their dragon cards, Elementals will actually have to sequence well and make tough decisions.
It has also been mentioned that Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem are rotating, so Shaman is losing it's strong early game plays.
TT/TG are only important for Aggro version, losing them are ireelevant for Mid/Jade one.
And seems like some new elementals worth including into Mid/Jade Shaman. I'm a little bit sceptic about pure elemental-themed deck - I agree, it relies on too clunky mechanic to be viable.
Adapt = Suck. Nobody will be playing Adapt in their decks. Well, no more than hand buff pally is played right now. (you might see something like evolving spores (or whatever the name is) played, but, that's more like Savage Roar than an adapt minion. Might not suck as a spell or wide buff. But, as an individual card buff... sucks.
Quest = Good in Warlock, average to bad elsewhere. Why? Warlock is the only class that can negate that 1 less card in the starting hand problem easily. Plus their Quest seems to be built on the new only type of Warlock now that Reno is going, Disco lock. So, Pretty good there, not seen much elsewhere. (might be good in other classes in Wild, but, I'm speaking only of Standard)
Elementals = Good. Very good. Will be seen a TON. Why? The ability to cheat mana without counterplay is huge. It fits right into the curvestone fundamental of what makes a deck strong. Will terrorize the ladder. It'll be Secret Paladin all over again.
So, at least one of teh 3 new mechanics will be played. (and 2 if you count Discolock)
I feel like Elementals are really the new C'Thun, where people are worried it's going to be curve-and-win but really just ends up being an okay deck. Personally I'm fine with that since C'Thun was fun to build and play and wasn't really particularly oppressive.
People getting angry at decks that curve out should probably find a game that doesn't use a mana system, they're always going to be present in HS and it's not worth raging about.
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If a Elemental Shaman curves 6-7-8, how do you win? That's removal + fat body three turns in a row! Other than "kill them by turn six", it's not clear what you do against that.
I think that the elemental effect actually does spilt good from bad player. Maybe you dont have as much elementals as we think and can only afford an elemental on specific turn. So you need to think about your opponement cards and when its necessary to have an elemental effect to trigger.
For quest I think you are rigth but these quest give more diversity each class has now an extra archtype which i think makes the meta more healthe because you face up more different decks.
I also think that we havent seen the best of the adapt minions or spells (except galvadon) and adapt on its own is a really fair method to allow good player's stand up from the others
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i hope all you complaining about elementals quit hearthstone permanently, and im dead serious.
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There is a ton of room for variation with Elementals. I don't think they are like Mechs or Dragons at all.
Yes, obviously, you'll see the same cards a lot, but each archetype that uses them will use them in very different ways.
If you don't like them, you'd better quit now and save yourself the torture.
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Obviously you haven't played Ranked in the last week because you would then see how much Dragon priest is being playing. Almost 15% of the ladder is playing Dragon Priest with turn 8 lethals everywhere.
The Elemental mechanic is actually a hell of alot better than the dragon mechanic since it forces you to think about your following turns and how your going to curve out to maximise your elemental synergies. In dragon priest all you have to do is just hold on to your extra Twilight Welp and curve out. However the one way Blizzard could screw up the mechanic is if they print too many elemental cards. If it becomes to easy to just chain elementals into each other instead of having to play off curve every once in a while then it will loose all of the intended skill in the mechanic. Personally i would have liked the Stone Sentinal to have a different mana cost so it wouldn't be so easy to curve 6 - 7 - 8.
Shamans aren't going anywhere any time soon :/
Renounce Darkness
I wouldn't be too concerned. Elementals are basically a bad version of jade and likely won't see play.
The new elementals seem strong IF you get a perfect curve each game. The effects are very powerful, but I can see games where they could stumble and not get all of their triggers. It's not like Dragon Priests, who can hold on to a Twilight Whelp in the late game to turn on all of their dragon cards, Elementals will actually have to sequence well and make tough decisions.
It has also been mentioned that Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem are rotating, so Shaman is losing it's strong early game plays.
I'm quite happy with anything new. I hope we're gonna see some spells for elementals, that would be neat.
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I predict:
Adapt = Suck. Nobody will be playing Adapt in their decks. Well, no more than hand buff pally is played right now. (you might see something like evolving spores (or whatever the name is) played, but, that's more like Savage Roar than an adapt minion. Might not suck as a spell or wide buff. But, as an individual card buff... sucks.
Quest = Good in Warlock, average to bad elsewhere. Why? Warlock is the only class that can negate that 1 less card in the starting hand problem easily. Plus their Quest seems to be built on the new only type of Warlock now that Reno is going, Disco lock. So, Pretty good there, not seen much elsewhere. (might be good in other classes in Wild, but, I'm speaking only of Standard)
Elementals = Good. Very good. Will be seen a TON. Why? The ability to cheat mana without counterplay is huge. It fits right into the curvestone fundamental of what makes a deck strong. Will terrorize the ladder. It'll be Secret Paladin all over again.
So, at least one of teh 3 new mechanics will be played. (and 2 if you count Discolock)
This thread is on point.
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I've hardly seen a shaman from rank 20 to 9. But priest is everywhere.
I feel like Elementals are really the new C'Thun, where people are worried it's going to be curve-and-win but really just ends up being an okay deck. Personally I'm fine with that since C'Thun was fun to build and play and wasn't really particularly oppressive.
People getting angry at decks that curve out should probably find a game that doesn't use a mana system, they're always going to be present in HS and it's not worth raging about.
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I am not looking forward to it. However, I said the same thing about the last 2 expansions. Once I get better, it becomes a lot for fun.
Sailordude#1983
"Get off my lawn"
Waaaa, you have a better chance at winning if you curve well in a card game, but I'm going to call it Curvestone because waaaaaaaa
Grow up.
If a Elemental Shaman curves 6-7-8, how do you win? That's removal + fat body three turns in a row! Other than "kill them by turn six", it's not clear what you do against that.
I think that the elemental effect actually does spilt good from bad player. Maybe you dont have as much elementals as we think and can only afford an elemental on specific turn. So you need to think about your opponement cards and when its necessary to have an elemental effect to trigger.
For quest I think you are rigth but these quest give more diversity each class has now an extra archtype which i think makes the meta more healthe because you face up more different decks.
I also think that we havent seen the best of the adapt minions or spells (except galvadon) and adapt on its own is a really fair method to allow good player's stand up from the others