We're talking about what Blizzard is doing with their game right now. In a year they could announce a totally different plan of action. They're not going to. Blizzard is a slow moving company that sticks to their plans. They're going to see how standard plays out and we're going to have to live with it for at least 2 years.
It's bad on purpose.. so the expasions will shape the meta make blizz a ton of money on the other hand some cards need to be good so players have cards they can count on having..
the whole point of nerfing is that most decks are made from the base set so they want more expasion cards in decks booster packs sold.. to change the meta (and sell more packs) sell more packs (and change the meta)
The cards that are included in the base set don't have anything to do with how good or bad they are.
They ONLY have to do with the time they were released.
Basic and Classic cards have been together since Alpha. They are the base set.
That argument would have meaning if they weren't planning to keep the Basic and Classic cards for the Standard format. It means they are a part of the Spring 2016 set, and the Spring 2017 set, and every future set.
... Until Blizzard changes its policies with regards to Standard.
In Magic, Standard used to be defined as the sets released in two calendar years, now it is the sets in the last 3 blocks (which works out to a set being about 18 months in Standard). There is no reason to believe that Blizzard will be unwilling to make similar changes to the framework as they get more experience with rotation.
Should be noted it took nearly 20 years for Wizards to come to this, and it was done in large part because core sets haven't sold well for them. Wizard's last effort before canning core sets was to produce a substantial number of new cards for them, making them a compromise between appealing to old and new players, but that also required the kind of resouces that could instead be making expansion sets.
While classic packs will not be flying off the shelves per say due to older players collecting them all, they also don't have to be reprinted cyclically and placed in a release cycle like a paper product, and the cost to get them into new players hands is near zero since there is nothing physical to produce and near nothing for game devs to develop. So long-term sales are a nonissue for such a product, and they will never interfere with the release cycle of better selling expansions because they don't need a (re) release.
Wizards also cited the problem that new players tended to ignore Core set packs when expert players around the shop were ignoring them, and like the expert players tended to buy the latest set even if it wasn't the most helpful thing for a new player. Blizzard however can dispense a few free classic packs to new players (no cost to manufacture and, non exploitable because untradeable) to rub it in their face, they can keep classic as the top/default choice for buying packs, and players generally can't see what each other are buying anyway, so these problems won't exist to the same degree.
Now of course it's still reasonable to hold that Blizzard might change things in the future. (At least for classic, the Basic cards seem hard to get rid of while remaining newbie friendly.) I just wanted to add that whatever Blizzard's reasons for doing so, they will not be Wizard's reasons, so it is not inevitable that they will need to follow MTG's lead.
Because it's a half assed solution of a TCG problem enforced onto a CCG. They didn't quite think that through. HS has by no means the pool to support standard without it becoming stale even faster than now. 50% of the entire pool won't cycle and that pool is in many cases rather unviable and boring. They also have to "fix" every current problem over and over and over again, because they refuse to change the base. (Like we will get another neutral Heal... and another neutral anti-spell and another neutral...) whenever one cycles out.
I wouldn't mind seeing a handful of cards moved into the base set, things like Zombie Chow and Duplicate. Honestly, though, I'd be shocked to see them move ANY cards to base when they can just create similar ones in the future.
But then again, you can always just play Wild :)
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The cards that are included in the base set don't have anything to do with how good or bad they are.
They ONLY have to do with the time they were released.
Basic and Classic cards have been together since Alpha. They are the base set.
That argument would have meaning if they weren't planning to keep the Basic and Classic cards for the Standard format. It means they are a part of the Spring 2016 set, and the Spring 2017 set, and every future set.
... Until Blizzard changes its policies with regards to Standard.
In Magic, Standard used to be defined as the sets released in two calendar years, now it is the sets in the last 3 blocks (which works out to a set being about 18 months in Standard). There is no reason to believe that Blizzard will be unwilling to make similar changes to the framework as they get more experience with rotation.
Should be noted it took nearly 20 years for Wizards to come to this, and it was done in large part because core sets haven't sold well for them. Wizard's last effort before canning core sets was to produce a substantial number of new cards for them, making them a compromise between appealing to old and new players, but that also required the kind of resouces that could instead be making expansion sets.
[...]
Now of course it's still reasonable to hold that Blizzard might change things in the future. (At least for classic, the Basic cards seem hard to get rid of while remaining newbie friendly.) I just wanted to add that whatever Blizzard's reasons for doing so, they will not be Wizard's reasons, so it is not inevitable that they will need to follow MTG's lead.
Agreed that they will not follow the same exact path, but my point is that we cannot assume that the Basic and Classic set as they exist now (with a few nerfs) will always be in Standard. My feeling is that within five years, the idea of a rotating "core set" will look attractive. "Classic" will just be the first "core set". They want to keep some cards stable so that returning players have a grasp of the decks being played, but they could achieve that by keeping about 50-75% of Classic always in the "core".
I think youre overreacting to the situation. It's worth noting that Blizz has stated that if they do use reprinst it wont be "any time in the 'soon' time frame" because thats a feels-bad. However, in a year and a half it might be cool to see Haunted Creeper come back or something.
Also, I'd bet dollars to pessos that before long we will be seeing yearly updates to the Classic/Basic set.
The cards that are included in the base set don't have anything to do with how good or bad they are.
They ONLY have to do with the time they were released.
Basic and Classic cards have been together since Alpha. They are the base set.
That argument would have meaning if they weren't planning to keep the Basic and Classic cards for the Standard format. It means they are a part of the Spring 2016 set, and the Spring 2017 set, and every future set.
... Until Blizzard changes its policies with regards to Standard.
In Magic, Standard used to be defined as the sets released in two calendar years, now it is the sets in the last 3 blocks (which works out to a set being about 18 months in Standard). There is no reason to believe that Blizzard will be unwilling to make similar changes to the framework as they get more experience with rotation.
Should be noted it took nearly 20 years for Wizards to come to this, and it was done in large part because core sets haven't sold well for them. Wizard's last effort before canning core sets was to produce a substantial number of new cards for them, making them a compromise between appealing to old and new players, but that also required the kind of resouces that could instead be making expansion sets.
[...]
Now of course it's still reasonable to hold that Blizzard might change things in the future. (At least for classic, the Basic cards seem hard to get rid of while remaining newbie friendly.) I just wanted to add that whatever Blizzard's reasons for doing so, they will not be Wizard's reasons, so it is not inevitable that they will need to follow MTG's lead.
Agreed that they will not follow the same exact path, but my point is that we cannot assume that the Basic and Classic set as they exist now (with a few nerfs) will always be in Standard. My feeling is that within five years, the idea of a rotating "core set" will look attractive. "Classic" will just be the first "core set". They want to keep some cards stable so that returning players have a grasp of the decks being played, but they could achieve that by keeping about 50-75% of Classic always in the "core".
There is no reason why they can't rework the classic set sometime later, it's just too early to talk about it now.
A lot of digital ink has been spilled about how Druid is so reliant on the base set for its cards and how they're going to get nerfed in some kind of dramatic way. Druids have another problem. A lot of their classic card spells stink. Savagery stands for a whole tier of bad cards. Mark of the Wild, Bite etc. Paladins are popularly known to not have a great choice in early game units. Are we going to need a new set of Paladin cards every Standard season? The classes are simply not balanced in the base set at all.
Savagery and Bite as a thematic druid card really are quite baffling. It's as though they brainstormed it during creation, tested it out, decided they didn't work and didn't want to support it. Somehow they forgot to remove these remnants from the game, and here they hang, like a gym sock on a shower rod.
It's bad on purpose.. so the expasions will shape the meta make blizz a ton of money on the other hand some cards need to be good so players have cards they can count on having..
the whole point of nerfing is that most decks are made from the base set so they want more expasion cards in decks booster packs sold.. to change the meta (and sell more packs) sell more packs (and change the meta)
FYP
Yep more or less xd but I really think the fact that even classic and basic stamples wouldn't be counted on anymore will really help shaping the meta and make expansions more relevant
Tgt introduced 132 new cards and only 25 are used.. So yeah..
Savagery and Bite as a thematic druid card really are quite baffling. It's as though they brainstormed it during creation, tested it out, decided they didn't work and didn't want to support it. Somehow they forgot to remove these remnants from the game, and here they hang, like a gym sock on a shower rod.
They are doing fine in Reno deck. I mean really, I've tried. The biggest savagery fuck up is that it's nothing in early game, but in midgame it's good (can do 3-4-5 damage for 1, which is tempo play).
I'd like them to buff it a little, like add 1 or 2 damage to it with same text. That would make it perfect early game removal that scales into latemage.
I'm pretty sure that Blizz is gonna be re-defining the Core set of Basic + Classic cards some time in the future, and by re-defining I mean more than nerfing a few cards that limit future design space as they are doing soon.
They just cannot do it now or anytime in Standard Season 1, because they don't want to overwhelm the majority of their players (casuals) with too many changes in a short time frame, that wouldn't be healhty for their franchise, so it's the correct decision to introduce standard and evolve it step by step - even if from a professional or semi-professional player standpoint it would make much more sense to fix the Core set right now for Season 1 of standard.
When they start changing the Core set, maybe they will buff some of the cards (not too likely though I guess), maybe they will add or replace some cards.
Many have already figured out that Loatheb is the best candidate for being introduced to the Standard core set, and I think Blizz knows that just as well as we do. It will make Core one day, and so may others that are as greatly designed and mandatory for the game.
Some cards might make Core set one day to replace current Core set cards I guess, so e.g. cards that are only ever viable in a meta heavily catered to support them (e.g .Savagery), so that they would need supporting cards released in every standard season to not be absolute garbage, might get replaced by cards less in need of support, like e.g. Mulch (just an example, have not given it much thought).
But I think the "core of the Core set" will always remain the same, changes overall will be little, and that is good, because the Core set of basic + classic cards really defines the core roles of the classes very well, and sub-roles like e.g. Beast druid or Secret Pally or Mech Mage can easily phase in and out over time with new expansions, I'm totally fine with that and think it's the correct way to go.
A lot of digital ink has been spilled about how Druid is so reliant on the base set for its cards and how they're going to get nerfed in some kind of dramatic way. Druids have another problem. A lot of their classic card spells stink. Savagery stands for a whole tier of bad cards. Mark of the Wild, Bite etc. Paladins are popularly known to not have a great choice in early game units. Are we going to need a new set of Paladin cards every Standard season? The classes are simply not balanced in the base set at all.
Savagery and Bite as a thematic druid card really are quite baffling. It's as though they brainstormed it during creation, tested it out, decided they didn't work and didn't want to support it. Somehow they forgot to remove these remnants from the game, and here they hang, like a gym sock on a shower rod.
You are wrong. In alpha they were much stronger. Bite was a fireball (6 dmg without armor), and costed 3 mana after change (4 attack/armor) and savagery damaged all enemy minions with hero attack (for 2 mana). Also Savagery is affected by spell power.
Savagery and Bite as a thematic druid card really are quite baffling. It's as though they brainstormed it during creation, tested it out, decided they didn't work and didn't want to support it. Somehow they forgot to remove these remnants from the game, and here they hang, like a gym sock on a shower rod.
They are doing fine in Reno deck. I mean really, I've tried. The biggest savagery fuck up is that it's nothing in early game, but in midgame it's good (can do 3-4-5 damage for 1, which is tempo play).
I'd like them to buff it a little, like add 1 or 2 damage to it with same text. That would make it perfect early game removal that scales into latemage.
I'm no talking about whether a card is able to be put into a random fun deck and used. Of course you could say that about any card. I'm talking about whether cards are usable and useful within the game, and cards like Bite and Savagery will just never see play. They don't reinforce a class theme, they don't teach new players interesting things and they can't be played by knowledgeable players.
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We're talking about what Blizzard is doing with their game right now. In a year they could announce a totally different plan of action. They're not going to. Blizzard is a slow moving company that sticks to their plans. They're going to see how standard plays out and we're going to have to live with it for at least 2 years.
Keep calm and use your hero power
I am dreading the day that Ice Rager is phased out of Standard and I will be forced to switch Magma Rager back into my decklist.
/s
Because it's a half assed solution of a TCG problem enforced onto a CCG. They didn't quite think that through. HS has by no means the pool to support standard without it becoming stale even faster than now. 50% of the entire pool won't cycle and that pool is in many cases rather unviable and boring. They also have to "fix" every current problem over and over and over again, because they refuse to change the base. (Like we will get another neutral Heal... and another neutral anti-spell and another neutral...) whenever one cycles out.
You... You wanna buy a funnel cake?
I wouldn't mind seeing a handful of cards moved into the base set, things like Zombie Chow and Duplicate. Honestly, though, I'd be shocked to see them move ANY cards to base when they can just create similar ones in the future.
But then again, you can always just play Wild :)
Building Quirky Decks Every Week, Loving Life at Rank 15!
Yo dawg heard you like nerfs, so we put nerfs in your nerfs so you can get nerfs while you're getting nerfed!
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild
I think youre overreacting to the situation. It's worth noting that Blizz has stated that if they do use reprinst it wont be "any time in the 'soon' time frame" because thats a feels-bad. However, in a year and a half it might be cool to see Haunted Creeper come back or something.
Also, I'd bet dollars to pessos that before long we will be seeing yearly updates to the Classic/Basic set.
Now is the time. They're already reworking it with nerfs. There's no reason to keep your core set the same if you can easily improve it.
Keep calm and use your hero power
I'm pretty sure that Blizz is gonna be re-defining the Core set of Basic + Classic cards some time in the future, and by re-defining I mean more than nerfing a few cards that limit future design space as they are doing soon.
They just cannot do it now or anytime in Standard Season 1, because they don't want to overwhelm the majority of their players (casuals) with too many changes in a short time frame, that wouldn't be healhty for their franchise, so it's the correct decision to introduce standard and evolve it step by step - even if from a professional or semi-professional player standpoint it would make much more sense to fix the Core set right now for Season 1 of standard.
When they start changing the Core set, maybe they will buff some of the cards (not too likely though I guess), maybe they will add or replace some cards.
Many have already figured out that Loatheb is the best candidate for being introduced to the Standard core set, and I think Blizz knows that just as well as we do. It will make Core one day, and so may others that are as greatly designed and mandatory for the game.
Some cards might make Core set one day to replace current Core set cards I guess, so e.g. cards that are only ever viable in a meta heavily catered to support them (e.g .Savagery), so that they would need supporting cards released in every standard season to not be absolute garbage, might get replaced by cards less in need of support, like e.g. Mulch (just an example, have not given it much thought).
But I think the "core of the Core set" will always remain the same, changes overall will be little, and that is good, because the Core set of basic + classic cards really defines the core roles of the classes very well, and sub-roles like e.g. Beast druid or Secret Pally or Mech Mage can easily phase in and out over time with new expansions, I'm totally fine with that and think it's the correct way to go.