Hey Hearthpwn, I'm finally at the point where I can finish off one of the decks that I see very high ranked players play.
I know everyone says "well trump got to legend without legendaries so you can do it too." Here's the thing... I'm not trump, and I don't have the time to dedicate to playing hearthstone like a professional gamer. I do have the dust to build one of the decks that I see at the very top of the (NA) ladder, and I'm looking for feedback on which is the absolutely most consistent deck to help me get there.
The two decks I'm mostly considering are Control Warrior (KitKatz version) or Miracle Rogue (with sideboards).
I have enough dust to craft 2 legendaries, which is what I would need to finish off the warrior deck or the two in the Rogue deck.
I'd also be willing to consider Handlock (or I guess they call it tempostorm now?) or Shaman, as those are the other 2 decks I'm seeing ultra-high ranks playing.
What I'm mostly looking for is consistency. What I don't know is whether miracle or warrior will bring the most consistency (and I understand that against different metas, each has their own strengths and weaknesses - what I'm looking for is overall consistency across the entire range of the meta).
My inclination is to go with warrior, since it seems to have the least RNG with amazing anti-aggro, but I'm looking for feedback before I blow 3200 dust on a couple of legendaries to make that push.
miracle rogue is the most consistent this season i've found. warrior is good too but there doesnt seem to be as many good matchups. if you're talking about future seasons, it's difficult to gauge the shifting meta.
Miracle is very popular so I choose handlock to go to legend with which unless the rogue have both saps usually 99% of the time lose to a capable handlock player. This is as Pilleri says, in rank 5 to legendary.
I'm running token druid with a few heavy-hitters thrown in. It feels like you can beat any class and any match up, and I win streaked my way with ease from ranks 13 to 5 in a few hours of play. Plenty of room for skillful play and you have the option to switch into full-on aggro if necessary.
The most consistent deck is the Control Warrior, but right now not Kitkatz' deck, simply because its an anti aggro deck and there are no aggro builds around in the meta right now. I would build the "normal" version and you'll hit legend.
I would go for miracle rouge. I have only 20% win rate against them while I have about 60-70% against other classes as Shaman. Miracle is pretty invincible with the right starting hand.
I'm not trump, and I don't have the time to dedicate to playing hearthstone like a professional gamer. (snip)
(and I understand that against different metas, each has their own strengths and weaknesses - what I'm looking for is overall consistency across the entire range of the meta). (snip)
I'm looking for feedback before I blow 3200 dust on a couple of legendaries to make that push.
You'll want to go Miracle Rogue. Period.
Fine post by Alperon, good points. But really, the strength of Control Warrior isn't just it's . . . static gameplay. It's the ability to rotate about 50% of the cards in or out depending on meta, and typically that rotation requires a gigantic arsenal of legends & epics. If you're seriously worried about 3200 dust, probably Control Warrior is not the way to go.
On the other hand, look at Miracle Rogue builds. You do need the epic Preparation, and there is sideboarding for meta or for individual taste, but the rotations for Miracle Rogue do not require that insane legend / epic library that you really want with Control Warrior
Case in point - Big Game Hunter, Faceless Manipulator x 2, Harrison Jones, Sylvanas Windrunner, The Black Knight, Cairne Bloodhoof, Ysera are all cards you really want with Control Warrior - even if you're not *using* them at the time, as well as the fixed meta of Alexstrasza and Grommash Hellscream and often Baron Geddon. Stuff like Nat Pagle, Bloodmage Thalnos, Deathwing, and Onyxia have all found their place, as well as builds with Molten Giant &c. I'm not kidding when I say you rotate these cards in and out to face the meta. It's what's done. Then you look at the costs of the other "given" cards - double epic Shield Slam, Brawl, Gorehowl - even if those don't run in all builds, they're weapons in a proper Control Warrior player's arsenal. You understand, you need to be able to rotate those cards in and out to meet the meta. If you can't, you get stuck if there's a meta shift. It's not "just one card", either, I could go into the mathematics of Control Warrior, but . . . yeah, you know, just basically that's why another name for Control Warrior is P2W Warrior. It's maybe considered crude or insulting or whatever, but it's *apt*.
I don't say you need to have a ridiculous library to play Warrior well, you can do aggro Warrior for example. But if you *are* going Control Warrior, well - you probably want those cards, all of them. You can meet today's meta, but what about tomorrow's?
On the other hand, look at Miracle Rogue. Preparation is epic, not too bad; Gadgetzan Auctioneer a mere rare. Leeroy Jenkins is a given. Then look at the sideboards. Your legendary sideboard runs to Edwin VanCleef, Bloodmage Thalnos, The Black Knight, Malygos, whatever other odd legendary - I'm not saying EVERY deck runs those of course, nor do I say they should, but you most certainly don't have that legendary parade of Control Warrior because that's *not the core win condition / prevention of loss engine of the deck*. You see stuff like Coldlight Oracle, Questing Adventurer, Mana Addict, much cheaper no matter how you look at it; rares instead of legendaries or even epics.
Then consider the effectiveness of a good Miracle Rogue deck. It's not shabby; you have fast removal with Backstep against the aggro matchup, you have credible board threats that have to be dealt with (SI:7 Agent doesn't seem like the biggest problem in the world, but you can't really just leave a 3/3 unanswered to poke you all day long), you have Sap for gigantic momentum killing, you have burst damage, you have protection with Conceal, you don't have to rely on sustained board presence and therefore overextend into some sort of mass removal - and *although there are at least three distinct builds that I can think of offhand that play very differently*, well - you have your options.
So yeah, Miracle Rogue. Maybe they'll nerf the mechanic whatever, but my guess it ought to be good for at least this month, maybe next month, maybe forever, who knows. But at least this month and next is my guess.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
I'm looking for feedback on which is the absolutely most consistent deck to help me get there.
The two decks I'm mostly considering are Control Warrior (KitKatz version) or Miracle Rogue (with sideboards).
Honestly, i think the most consistent deck is Zoo. Strategy: flood the board and control it. What's the deck made of? Small minions, 26 of them.
I can't think of a more consistent deck. All other decks can draw high mana costing cards, other aggro decks may not draw their reach cards in time, not zoo. You will always draw something to play. The only "inconsistency" i find in that deck is the redundant Soulfire + Doomguard possible hand.
I personally don't play the deck outside dailies but i find it the most reliable.
My personal preference is Shaman because of the awesome board control with excessively good burst power. I feel it's really consistent but you need to learn how to counter every single move your opponent does so the starting hand is really important, knowing what to mulligan.
Otherwise, try miracle, it's a pain in the ass to play against.
I agree with AardvarkPepper in that Miracle Rogue in capable hands has a very steady clock, aka lethal turn. This concept is called "inevitability" in TCGs. The opponent's task is to postpone that clock or to kill the Miracle player before the countdown for assembling the pieces becomes 0 and the clock goes BOOM in your face.
Most of the other HS decks are way more matchup dependant, requiring additional information about the opponent's likely deck composition (e.g. play BGH now or save it for another minion, what to faceless, etc.). With Miracle, mostly you just calculate whether or not you or the opponent has lethal in hand for this turn or next turn or two turns from now. Fairly simple decisions IMO. You just need some "goldfish" practice running the deck.
QFT.
Amaz was asked about how he felt about miracle rogue in an interview ~2weeks ago and he said something along the lines of "When playing against a miracle rogue, you're playing hearthstone while he's playing solitaire."
This, imo, is pretty much the most accurate description of miracle rogue that I've ever heard.
Amaz was asked about how he felt about miracle rogue in an interview ~2weeks ago and he said something along the lines of "When playing against a miracle rogue, you're playing hearthstone while he's playing solitaire."
It seems like that's the reaction to every successful high-speed or high-burst deck. I remember the same thing being said about zoo, and facehunter, and OTK Shaman - and while it was before I started, I hear that the same thing was said about ice-giant mage.
Miracle rogue works terrible vs the zoo decks topped with argus and cairne instead of commanders - just saying.
I have found that when I run my zoo deck, I do pretty well against miracle rogues. Not saying I do great, mind you, but if I get a good draw and he doesn't get his SI:7's out to remove my 2 health minions, I can overrun a miracle rogue by turn 5/6.
Hey Hearthpwn, I'm finally at the point where I can finish off one of the decks that I see very high ranked players play.
I know everyone says "well trump got to legend without legendaries so you can do it too." Here's the thing... I'm not trump, and I don't have the time to dedicate to playing hearthstone like a professional gamer. I do have the dust to build one of the decks that I see at the very top of the (NA) ladder, and I'm looking for feedback on which is the absolutely most consistent deck to help me get there.
The two decks I'm mostly considering are Control Warrior (KitKatz version) or Miracle Rogue (with sideboards).
I have enough dust to craft 2 legendaries, which is what I would need to finish off the warrior deck or the two in the Rogue deck.
I'd also be willing to consider Handlock (or I guess they call it tempostorm now?) or Shaman, as those are the other 2 decks I'm seeing ultra-high ranks playing.
What I'm mostly looking for is consistency. What I don't know is whether miracle or warrior will bring the most consistency (and I understand that against different metas, each has their own strengths and weaknesses - what I'm looking for is overall consistency across the entire range of the meta).
My inclination is to go with warrior, since it seems to have the least RNG with amazing anti-aggro, but I'm looking for feedback before I blow 3200 dust on a couple of legendaries to make that push.
miracle rogue is the most consistent this season i've found. warrior is good too but there doesnt seem to be as many good matchups. if you're talking about future seasons, it's difficult to gauge the shifting meta.
Miracle Rouge is hard to learn but once you figure the deck out it can take you to the top of the lader.
Miracle is very popular so I choose handlock to go to legend with which unless the rogue have both saps usually 99% of the time lose to a capable handlock player. This is as Pilleri says, in rank 5 to legendary.
I'm running token druid with a few heavy-hitters thrown in. It feels like you can beat any class and any match up, and I win streaked my way with ease from ranks 13 to 5 in a few hours of play. Plenty of room for skillful play and you have the option to switch into full-on aggro if necessary.
I started a deck thread if you're interested: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/class-discussion/druid/10588-feedback-for-token-druid
The most consistent deck is the Control Warrior, but right now not Kitkatz' deck, simply because its an anti aggro deck and there are no aggro builds around in the meta right now. I would build the "normal" version and you'll hit legend.
I would go for miracle rouge. I have only 20% win rate against them while I have about 60-70% against other classes as Shaman. Miracle is pretty invincible with the right starting hand.
You'll want to go Miracle Rogue. Period.
Fine post by Alperon, good points. But really, the strength of Control Warrior isn't just it's . . . static gameplay. It's the ability to rotate about 50% of the cards in or out depending on meta, and typically that rotation requires a gigantic arsenal of legends & epics. If you're seriously worried about 3200 dust, probably Control Warrior is not the way to go.
On the other hand, look at Miracle Rogue builds. You do need the epic Preparation, and there is sideboarding for meta or for individual taste, but the rotations for Miracle Rogue do not require that insane legend / epic library that you really want with Control Warrior
Case in point - Big Game Hunter, Faceless Manipulator x 2, Harrison Jones, Sylvanas Windrunner, The Black Knight, Cairne Bloodhoof, Ysera are all cards you really want with Control Warrior - even if you're not *using* them at the time, as well as the fixed meta of Alexstrasza and Grommash Hellscream and often Baron Geddon. Stuff like Nat Pagle, Bloodmage Thalnos, Deathwing, and Onyxia have all found their place, as well as builds with Molten Giant &c. I'm not kidding when I say you rotate these cards in and out to face the meta. It's what's done. Then you look at the costs of the other "given" cards - double epic Shield Slam, Brawl, Gorehowl - even if those don't run in all builds, they're weapons in a proper Control Warrior player's arsenal. You understand, you need to be able to rotate those cards in and out to meet the meta. If you can't, you get stuck if there's a meta shift. It's not "just one card", either, I could go into the mathematics of Control Warrior, but . . . yeah, you know, just basically that's why another name for Control Warrior is P2W Warrior. It's maybe considered crude or insulting or whatever, but it's *apt*.
I don't say you need to have a ridiculous library to play Warrior well, you can do aggro Warrior for example. But if you *are* going Control Warrior, well - you probably want those cards, all of them. You can meet today's meta, but what about tomorrow's?
On the other hand, look at Miracle Rogue. Preparation is epic, not too bad; Gadgetzan Auctioneer a mere rare. Leeroy Jenkins is a given. Then look at the sideboards. Your legendary sideboard runs to Edwin VanCleef, Bloodmage Thalnos, The Black Knight, Malygos, whatever other odd legendary - I'm not saying EVERY deck runs those of course, nor do I say they should, but you most certainly don't have that legendary parade of Control Warrior because that's *not the core win condition / prevention of loss engine of the deck*. You see stuff like Coldlight Oracle, Questing Adventurer, Mana Addict, much cheaper no matter how you look at it; rares instead of legendaries or even epics.
Then consider the effectiveness of a good Miracle Rogue deck. It's not shabby; you have fast removal with Backstep against the aggro matchup, you have credible board threats that have to be dealt with (SI:7 Agent doesn't seem like the biggest problem in the world, but you can't really just leave a 3/3 unanswered to poke you all day long), you have Sap for gigantic momentum killing, you have burst damage, you have protection with Conceal, you don't have to rely on sustained board presence and therefore overextend into some sort of mass removal - and *although there are at least three distinct builds that I can think of offhand that play very differently*, well - you have your options.
So yeah, Miracle Rogue. Maybe they'll nerf the mechanic whatever, but my guess it ought to be good for at least this month, maybe next month, maybe forever, who knows. But at least this month and next is my guess.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
Honestly, i think the most consistent deck is Zoo. Strategy: flood the board and control it. What's the deck made of? Small minions, 26 of them.
I can't think of a more consistent deck. All other decks can draw high mana costing cards, other aggro decks may not draw their reach cards in time, not zoo. You will always draw something to play. The only "inconsistency" i find in that deck is the redundant Soulfire + Doomguard possible hand.
I personally don't play the deck outside dailies but i find it the most reliable.
My comments refer mostly to the wild format.
My personal preference is Shaman because of the awesome board control with excessively good burst power. I feel it's really consistent but you need to learn how to counter every single move your opponent does so the starting hand is really important, knowing what to mulligan.
Otherwise, try miracle, it's a pain in the ass to play against.
xSnP
QFT.
Amaz was asked about how he felt about miracle rogue in an interview ~2weeks ago and he said something along the lines of "When playing against a miracle rogue, you're playing hearthstone while he's playing solitaire."
This, imo, is pretty much the most accurate description of miracle rogue that I've ever heard.
It seems like that's the reaction to every successful high-speed or high-burst deck. I remember the same thing being said about zoo, and facehunter, and OTK Shaman - and while it was before I started, I hear that the same thing was said about ice-giant mage.
Obviously cause those high-burst deck just doesn't care at all (to a certain extent obviously) what's happening on the board, just the face damage.
xSnP
I have found that when I run my zoo deck, I do pretty well against miracle rogues. Not saying I do great, mind you, but if I get a good draw and he doesn't get his SI:7's out to remove my 2 health minions, I can overrun a miracle rogue by turn 5/6.
How are you guys even thinking that miracle is somewhat hard to play?
Retired Hearthstone Columnist