Always evolves to something that is difficult to deal with or even turn the tide
I don't think so, shaman have a card similar don't need to be triggered at all and don't see any play.
The card need a small nerf is the minion increasing the cost of minion he target to return the hand effect, they should limit the cost increased to 10.
No, as someone that doesn't play the deck, I like having stuff like this in the game. It's a card that is OP enough to see constructed play, but can be played around at times to reduce it's value, even if sometimes you are in situations where you must play into it out of desperation and hope you get lucky. It also really punsihes people who play poorly into it (noobs/fools). Point is, it creates intresting game states that breaks the standard line of play. We need more stuff like this, IMO.
Most secrets by design are fair as they require the other player to make them work. Bamboozle fits in that design very well. Because you, the opponent, attack the minion, you get to decide which minion gets evolved. On top of that, testing for secrets in rogue right now is very easy as there is only 3 in standard. It’s not like hunter or mage where you have to test their full library of them. With there only being 3, it makes sense that the EPIC one would be powerful or have such a unique effect as the other two are strong in their own rights.
tl:dr rogue secrets need to be powerful right now for the archetype to survive.
when more are printed in the same format pool, then I’ll see cause for a nerf
Yeah bamboozle is fine.. Blackjack stunner is stupid and should be nerfed pretty hard. It is just waaaay too much upside for the little downside. Especially with the rest of rogue's arsenal already being unfair.
It's not fun to play against. And frankly, it also feels stupid to play myself. I could never get a satisfied feeling for "playing good" when i use this card.
Agreed, at the very least it shouldnt make cards too expansive to play, max 10mana. But tbh it's just a far superior sap with a body attached. The requirement doesn't justify the power level.
They can't nerf anything unless they nerf DH. Is bamboozle overpowered? A little bit. Imprisoned Felmaw is also one of the most overpowered cards I have ever seen. It's absurd. Should it be nerfed? Nope. DH is too strong to nerf anything.
Shadowjeweler needs to be a 1/4 or maybe even a 1/3. Five health is too good on turn 1 or 2. Just not enough answers to it if it gets going early.
The Stunner doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother other players. Yeah it sucks when your Dragonqueen or whatever gets bounced and you can no longer play it...but these things happen. I doubt they'd change the way Stunner and Freezing Trap inherently work and max out a minion at 10 casting cost. I doubt making Stunner cost 2 mana would do much either. So, I'm not really sure what the proper "nerf" would even look like or if it would even matter.
To me the greatest offender is the health on Shadowjeweler. Fix that and you've fixed a HUGE amount of the problem with the entire Rogue secret package.
Rogue is strong but it feels fair in some ways because you can just kill them before a lot of their stuff comes online. They are REALLY weak to a lot of decks, namely face hunter, aggro decks and bomb warrior. Some decks can achieve super high win rates vs rogue. Decks like DH which are too strong or decks like priest which are unfair/unfun and literally unbeatable for some decks are pretty lame though (for example, egg warrior vs rez priest is probably 90% win rate for the priest if the priest makes no mistakes). Rogue does unfair things but there is clear counterplay. The fact that it does unfair things is the only reason it can beat priest because priest is pretty broken too. Due to stunner and mirror you now arn't allowed to play big minions with deathrattles anymore.
I think everyone's opinion on how 'unfair' the whole Rogue's secret package is depends on the kind of deck you play. Aggro zoo decks that flood the board with tokens don't care about Bamboozle as they don't do trades, don't care about Ambush as they don't play high mana targets and for the same reason they don't care about Stunner. They will only feel some pain if Hanar discovers a Flame Ward or an Explosive Trap perhaps. For other types of decks the whole Rogue secret package might feel really OP though
It sucks when Rog have taunt on the board and you have absolutely no choice but to attack into it. Turning Shield of Galakrond into Tirion can just win the game on the spot.
I think everyone's opinion on how 'unfair' the whole Rogue's secret package is depends on the kind of deck you play. Aggro zoo decks that flood the board with tokens don't care about Bamboozle as they don't do trades, don't care about Ambush as they don't play high mana targets and for the same reason they don't care about Stunner. They will only feel some pain if Hanar discovers a Flame Ward or an Explosive Trap perhaps. For other types of decks the whole Rogue secret package might feel really OP though
It feels pretty unfair if you're playing paladin or shaman lol.
interesting, but you guys are allowed to complain every fucking day about dh, right?
Yea because it's clearly broken. Every card is as good or better than what has been hall of famed lol. Why it get to create tempo, do face damage and draw cards all at once while curving out perfectly because of a 1 mana hero power. DH wins almost always when going first. It's almost unbeatable if you play on the coin. Whereas I can make a deck which will hard counter rogue coin or no coin and have at least a 75% win rate (or in the case of face hunter possibly as high as 85% - 90%). What deck beats DH? Egg warrior maybe gets a 60% win rate but if both decks are played well it may be more like 55/45 in favour of the egg warrior.
Rogue can't just kill you in one turn from nothing and 3 cards either. Its reach is weapon and eviscerate typically kr maybe shadow step kronx for 10.
When rogue beats you its with a smile and a feeling you at least got to play until late game and gave it a go (outside of some unfair edwin play). When DH beats you they also kick you three times, kill your dog and burn your house down.
BTW I got to legend with control warrior for gods sake lol (no eggs, no inner rage, no rampage, no charge). I am not some rogue or DH fanboy.
Always evolves to something that is difficult to deal with or even turn the tide
I don't think so, shaman have a card similar don't need to be triggered at all and don't see any play.
The card need a small nerf is the minion increasing the cost of minion he target to return the hand effect, they should limit the cost increased to 10.
No, as someone that doesn't play the deck, I like having stuff like this in the game. It's a card that is OP enough to see constructed play, but can be played around at times to reduce it's value, even if sometimes you are in situations where you must play into it out of desperation and hope you get lucky. It also really punsihes people who play poorly into it (noobs/fools). Point is, it creates intresting game states that breaks the standard line of play. We need more stuff like this, IMO.
Most secrets by design are fair as they require the other player to make them work. Bamboozle fits in that design very well. Because you, the opponent, attack the minion, you get to decide which minion gets evolved. On top of that, testing for secrets in rogue right now is very easy as there is only 3 in standard. It’s not like hunter or mage where you have to test their full library of them. With there only being 3, it makes sense that the EPIC one would be powerful or have such a unique effect as the other two are strong in their own rights.
tl:dr rogue secrets need to be powerful right now for the archetype to survive.
when more are printed in the same format pool, then I’ll see cause for a nerf
Blackjack is a card for more deserving of a nerf. It's ridiculous.
Yeah bamboozle is fine.. Blackjack stunner is stupid and should be nerfed pretty hard. It is just waaaay too much upside for the little downside. Especially with the rest of rogue's arsenal already being unfair.
It's not fun to play against. And frankly, it also feels stupid to play myself. I could never get a satisfied feeling for "playing good" when i use this card.
Agreed, at the very least it shouldnt make cards too expansive to play, max 10mana. But tbh it's just a far superior sap with a body attached. The requirement doesn't justify the power level.
No
Nerf the coin, nerf hero powers, nerf the rope, jesus christ...
STOP POSTING NERF THREADS AND PLAY THE FKING GAME YOU WHINING LITTLE NERDS
3 posts... All about nerfs... Looking for dust or just raging?
I am not raging, just tired of dealing with Rogue:
Lackey evolves into Nozdormu the Timeless
EVIL Miscreant evolves into Evasive Wyrm, then using Witchy Lackey to evolve to Winged Guardian
Faceless Corruptor evolves into Walking Fountain
Excuse me WTF
They can't nerf anything unless they nerf DH. Is bamboozle overpowered? A little bit. Imprisoned Felmaw is also one of the most overpowered cards I have ever seen. It's absurd. Should it be nerfed? Nope. DH is too strong to nerf anything.
The secrets aren't the problem. Shadowjeweler Hanar and Blackjack Stunner are the problem. Secrets can be played around most of the time.
Shadowjeweler needs to be a 1/4 or maybe even a 1/3. Five health is too good on turn 1 or 2. Just not enough answers to it if it gets going early.
The Stunner doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother other players. Yeah it sucks when your Dragonqueen or whatever gets bounced and you can no longer play it...but these things happen. I doubt they'd change the way Stunner and Freezing Trap inherently work and max out a minion at 10 casting cost. I doubt making Stunner cost 2 mana would do much either. So, I'm not really sure what the proper "nerf" would even look like or if it would even matter.
To me the greatest offender is the health on Shadowjeweler. Fix that and you've fixed a HUGE amount of the problem with the entire Rogue secret package.
Rogue is strong but it feels fair in some ways because you can just kill them before a lot of their stuff comes online. They are REALLY weak to a lot of decks, namely face hunter, aggro decks and bomb warrior. Some decks can achieve super high win rates vs rogue. Decks like DH which are too strong or decks like priest which are unfair/unfun and literally unbeatable for some decks are pretty lame though (for example, egg warrior vs rez priest is probably 90% win rate for the priest if the priest makes no mistakes). Rogue does unfair things but there is clear counterplay. The fact that it does unfair things is the only reason it can beat priest because priest is pretty broken too. Due to stunner and mirror you now arn't allowed to play big minions with deathrattles anymore.
I think everyone's opinion on how 'unfair' the whole Rogue's secret package is depends on the kind of deck you play. Aggro zoo decks that flood the board with tokens don't care about Bamboozle as they don't do trades, don't care about Ambush as they don't play high mana targets and for the same reason they don't care about Stunner. They will only feel some pain if Hanar discovers a Flame Ward or an Explosive Trap perhaps.
For other types of decks the whole Rogue secret package might feel really OP though
It sucks when Rog have taunt on the board and you have absolutely no choice but to attack into it. Turning Shield of Galakrond into Tirion can just win the game on the spot.
It's a fun card but OP.
It feels pretty unfair if you're playing paladin or shaman lol.
interesting, but you guys are allowed to complain every fucking day about dh, right?
Yea because it's clearly broken. Every card is as good or better than what has been hall of famed lol. Why it get to create tempo, do face damage and draw cards all at once while curving out perfectly because of a 1 mana hero power. DH wins almost always when going first. It's almost unbeatable if you play on the coin. Whereas I can make a deck which will hard counter rogue coin or no coin and have at least a 75% win rate (or in the case of face hunter possibly as high as 85% - 90%). What deck beats DH? Egg warrior maybe gets a 60% win rate but if both decks are played well it may be more like 55/45 in favour of the egg warrior.
Rogue can't just kill you in one turn from nothing and 3 cards either. Its reach is weapon and eviscerate typically kr maybe shadow step kronx for 10.
When rogue beats you its with a smile and a feeling you at least got to play until late game and gave it a go (outside of some unfair edwin play). When DH beats you they also kick you three times, kill your dog and burn your house down.
BTW I got to legend with control warrior for gods sake lol (no eggs, no inner rage, no rampage, no charge). I am not some rogue or DH fanboy.