I have been playing this thing on and off for years and I have never seen Wild as busted as it is right now. Odd Quest Hunter is the most oppressive deck I have ever seen. Unless you can constantly heal the only way to out aggro it and even then you lose most of the time.
Not only that but the questline decks in general have taken over and there is little room for anything else. Good game, Blizzard.
Quest hunter has many counters. I even occasionally play questline druid to troll quest hunters. They can barely dent my hp due to all the armor. Loatheb and Cult Neophyte are great too across the board.
These people arguing that tech cards beat Questline hunter have no idea how variance works. Yes, the tech will give you the win sometimes but you could dirty rat the Tamsin too back when Seedlock was deemed oppressive. It's not really different except that armor/healing based decks have a stronger chance against Questline hunter than they had against Seedlock, that's true.
I still don't think it's a healthy meta for wild. Is it better than the Seedlock one? Yes. Is it healthy? Hell no. And it's only going to be faster and faster, that's how eternal formats work and you should accept that or just move to formats where skill matters a bit like standard/arena.
Yes for sure it is but less than pirate War and even lock. So we should nerf at least all 3.
Mage is also good, it deserve another nerf because it has 68% win rate with ignite and also druid is good, another nerf. Let's nerf all wild. There are 5 decks Tier 1 good in balance.
Why do people keep suggesting Dirty Rat and Mutanus are 'tech' against quest hunter? The hunter controls when they complete the quest and will not leave themselves open to rat unless they are a terrible player. Mutanus is completely irrelevant, both from that perspective and because you are dead by turn 7.
Loatheb, Spellward Jeweler, Nerubian Unraveler... these are all decent tech choices and have the benefit of working against Ignite mage as well. But the point, of course, is that you need to be lucky and find the tech card, while the hunter has essentially perfect consistency and does not need to be lucky. Even then, cards like Loatheb only delay the inevitable for a turn, unless you're actually killing them immediately.
The only real counters, as pointed out above, are armour and aggro. Personally I just play Reno lock, take the 90% loss rate against hunter and farm everything else that's trying to aggro them out.
Wild meta was in worse states that had barely any counters before like the previous QLock meta... Yes it is still unhealthy, just gotta accept and deal with it now we have more counters against them. Add those tech cards in your good competitive decks (other Questline decks, Combo decks, Tier-1/2 decks, etc.).
These people arguing that tech cards beat Questline hunter have no idea how variance works. Yes, the tech will give you the win sometimes but you could dirty rat the Tamsin too back when Seedlock was deemed oppressive. It's not really different except that armor/healing based decks have a stronger chance against Questline hunter than they had against Seedlock, that's true.
I still don't think it's a healthy meta for wild. Is it better than the Seedlock one? Yes. Is it healthy? Hell no. And it's only going to be faster and faster, that's how eternal formats work and you should accept that or just move to formats where skill matters a bit like standard/arena.
For a start, any semi-competent QLock player wouldn't give you a chance to rat. Complete Q and play on same turn. Anything that didn't kill by T6 was dead in that MU.
Secondly, the metagame is not that warped, I'm finding. There's a nice amount of variance in opposing decks and deck types. What deck types do you feel are being stifled? I still see control, combo,and aggro. The death of midrange has nothing to do with the current meta and more to do with speeding up control and blurring lines between the archetypes.
I get it, you feel it's an entirely RNG mode, which is belied by the same people hitting top ranks.
I still don't think it's a healthy meta for wild. Is it better than the Seedlock one? Yes. Is it healthy? Hell no. And it's only going to be faster and faster, that's how eternal formats work and you should accept that or just move to formats where skill matters a bit like standard/arena.
Eternal formats do tend to get out of control but there is a way to slow down this process. Blizzard should print cards designed to be strong techs against dominant wild decks in a way that won't screw standard.
These people arguing that tech cards beat Questline hunter have no idea how variance works. Yes, the tech will give you the win sometimes but you could dirty rat the Tamsin too back when Seedlock was deemed oppressive. It's not really different except that armor/healing based decks have a stronger chance against Questline hunter than they had against Seedlock, that's true.
I still don't think it's a healthy meta for wild. Is it better than the Seedlock one? Yes. Is it healthy? Hell no. And it's only going to be faster and faster, that's how eternal formats work and you should accept that or just move to formats where skill matters a bit like standard/arena.
For a start, any semi-competent QLock player wouldn't give you a chance to rat. Complete Q and play on same turn. Anything that didn't kill by T6 was dead in that MU.
Secondly, the metagame is not that warped, I'm finding. There's a nice amount of variance in opposing decks and deck types. What deck types do you feel are being stifled? I still see control, combo,and aggro. The death of midrange has nothing to do with the current meta and more to do with speeding up control and blurring lines between the archetypes.
I get it, you feel it's an entirely RNG mode, which is belied by the same people hitting top ranks.
You can avoid the rat with Questline hunter, too, but if you lose a turn you probably lose the game, too, so you have to risk it. I guess on Seedlock it didn't hurt that much since you could throw away a turn.
Just because Reno decks are playable again, people automatically think it's a good meta. It's better yes, but we're still far from a good meta if you have to heavily tech for Pirate warrior and Questline hunter (you can't soft tech, can you?).
I'm sorry I offended you by not claiming wild is as skillful as the other formats. If you have a decent level at the game and put enough time into the game while playing a top tier deck you'll eventually get into top 100. I actually did it myself with discolock and ignite mage. Now imagine if I spammed questline hunter or pirate warrior.
And please don't understand I'm saying the wild people are idiots. They're not. They have a decent level at hs and are passionate about the format which I respect. But I hate when this meta is a good meta because is techable meta.
Yes for sure it is but less than pirate War and even lock. So we should nerf at least all 3.
Mage is also good, it deserve another nerf because it has 68% win rate with ignite and also druid is good, another nerf. Let's nerf all wild. There are 5 decks Tier 1 good in balance.
It is pointless this topic.
Yeah, well, I think you think wrong. I actually got into top 100 with discolock and ignite mage. Legend every month in both standard and wild. I'm pretty sure I have an idea how this game works.
You, on the other hand, seem to attack just because you're so sure about your argument. And being 100% sure about something often means stupidity (ask Socrates in this regard). Let me tell you that I wasn't pointing Questline hunter is the next Seedlock as you think I was making it to be. I was just going with the OP's perspective. Of course pirate warrior and even lock are as good contenders in the meta and depending on your pocket meta you face on of these 3 more often which leads to a similar unfun experience as the Seedlock meta. For example, I'm only playing against pirate warrior and questline hunter. If I don't try to heavily tech against them or play those decks myself, I can't win a game.
Nerfing everything is not a solution because other decks will rise and the history will only repeat. I'm not sure wild is even fixable at this point and it's probably not even intended to be.
I wish i would have recorded the game I lost - i was playing Even Renolock and i was able to get Skulking Geist out on Turn 5 with coin. I destroyed his entire deck except for 9 cards and I still lost from OTK.
I wish i would have recorded the game I lost - i was playing Even Renolock and i was able to get Skulking Geist out on Turn 5 with coin. I destroyed his entire deck except for 9 cards and I still lost from OTK.
I did the same with Questline hunter to some deck that played Geist on 5. I also beat a Reno Shudderwock shaman that was designed to beat my deck (Mindbreaker, Dirty Rat, Kobold Monk). Surely Questline hunter is fine if you play this garbage to specifically counter it and still fail sometimes.
Quest hunter is strong but it has many counters. Loatheb, Dirty rat, Mutanus, etc...
And armor. It practically always lose against combo druids.
Questline Druid is also a free win - I went 13-3 over the weekend with the deck, 6-0 against Odd Hunter. I finished five of the games with 40+ Health/Armour. I had 33 in the sixth.
Quest hunter is strong but it has many counters. Loatheb, Dirty rat, Mutanus, etc...
And armor. It practically always lose against combo druids.
Are you serious? First of all, Loatheb is one card. And on turn 5. And it delays it for one turn. Mutanus is played on even later turns. And dirty rat. Just as Mutanus, so easy to play around, enough cheap cost spells to pop your quest on Turn 6 n play your minion.
EDIT: Skullking Geist same shit, watched DaneHS today playing Patron warrior and he did put in Skullking geist as tech card against hunters. At the end, he removed it because if you cant play it on curve, its useless
I wish i would have recorded the game I lost - i was playing Even Renolock and i was able to get Skulking Geist out on Turn 5 with coin. I destroyed his entire deck except for 9 cards and I still lost from OTK.
Frankly I cut Geist from my Even Renolock. It does very little vs Odd Quest Hunter, as it is just too slow at 6 mana. Even ratting their quest reward may not be enough many times. When I win (around 20-25% of the time) is through a combination of lots of healing (Reno on 5 or 6 for example) and early giants out to smack them in the face (if you don't force them to start spending resources to kill big minions then you will be down to ~10HP or less by the time they complete the questline and then you will die in 1-2 turns no matter what tech you play)
I have been playing this thing on and off for years and I have never seen Wild as busted as it is right now. Odd Quest Hunter is the most oppressive deck I have ever seen. Unless you can constantly heal the only way to out aggro it and even then you lose most of the time.
Not only that but the questline decks in general have taken over and there is little room for anything else. Good game, Blizzard.
You think they will balance this?
Quest hunter is strong but it has many counters. Loatheb, Dirty rat, Mutanus, etc...
And armor. It practically always lose against combo druids.
I presume you just skipped the worse prior metagames? Say, Qlock, Hysterical Tiller, Undertaker to name a few?
This is far from the worst it's been in. Facehunter isn't at oppressive levels of play in my experience, and there are counters.
Quest hunter has many counters. I even occasionally play questline druid to troll quest hunters. They can barely dent my hp due to all the armor. Loatheb and Cult Neophyte are great too across the board.
These people arguing that tech cards beat Questline hunter have no idea how variance works. Yes, the tech will give you the win sometimes but you could dirty rat the Tamsin too back when Seedlock was deemed oppressive. It's not really different except that armor/healing based decks have a stronger chance against Questline hunter than they had against Seedlock, that's true.
I still don't think it's a healthy meta for wild. Is it better than the Seedlock one? Yes. Is it healthy? Hell no. And it's only going to be faster and faster, that's how eternal formats work and you should accept that or just move to formats where skill matters a bit like standard/arena.
@AndreiRo, I think you have no idea about the game and meta.
You should check the data before writing. Is it strong? https://hsreplay.net/decks/#playerClasses=HUNTER&gameType=RANKED_WILD
Yes for sure it is but less than pirate War and even lock. So we should nerf at least all 3.
Mage is also good, it deserve another nerf because it has 68% win rate with ignite and also druid is good, another nerf. Let's nerf all wild. There are 5 decks Tier 1 good in balance.
It is pointless this topic.
Why do people keep suggesting Dirty Rat and Mutanus are 'tech' against quest hunter? The hunter controls when they complete the quest and will not leave themselves open to rat unless they are a terrible player. Mutanus is completely irrelevant, both from that perspective and because you are dead by turn 7.
Loatheb, Spellward Jeweler, Nerubian Unraveler... these are all decent tech choices and have the benefit of working against Ignite mage as well. But the point, of course, is that you need to be lucky and find the tech card, while the hunter has essentially perfect consistency and does not need to be lucky. Even then, cards like Loatheb only delay the inevitable for a turn, unless you're actually killing them immediately.
The only real counters, as pointed out above, are armour and aggro. Personally I just play Reno lock, take the 90% loss rate against hunter and farm everything else that's trying to aggro them out.
Skulking Geist x2 against Odd Quest Hunter
Wild meta was in worse states that had barely any counters before like the previous QLock meta... Yes it is still unhealthy, just gotta accept and deal with it now we have more counters against them. Add those tech cards in your good competitive decks (other Questline decks, Combo decks, Tier-1/2 decks, etc.).
For a start, any semi-competent QLock player wouldn't give you a chance to rat. Complete Q and play on same turn. Anything that didn't kill by T6 was dead in that MU.
Secondly, the metagame is not that warped, I'm finding. There's a nice amount of variance in opposing decks and deck types. What deck types do you feel are being stifled? I still see control, combo,and aggro. The death of midrange has nothing to do with the current meta and more to do with speeding up control and blurring lines between the archetypes.
I get it, you feel it's an entirely RNG mode, which is belied by the same people hitting top ranks.
Eternal formats do tend to get out of control but there is a way to slow down this process. Blizzard should print cards designed to be strong techs against dominant wild decks in a way that won't screw standard.
Sadly, I don't expect this to happen.
You can avoid the rat with Questline hunter, too, but if you lose a turn you probably lose the game, too, so you have to risk it. I guess on Seedlock it didn't hurt that much since you could throw away a turn.
Just because Reno decks are playable again, people automatically think it's a good meta. It's better yes, but we're still far from a good meta if you have to heavily tech for Pirate warrior and Questline hunter (you can't soft tech, can you?).
I'm sorry I offended you by not claiming wild is as skillful as the other formats. If you have a decent level at the game and put enough time into the game while playing a top tier deck you'll eventually get into top 100. I actually did it myself with discolock and ignite mage. Now imagine if I spammed questline hunter or pirate warrior.
And please don't understand I'm saying the wild people are idiots. They're not. They have a decent level at hs and are passionate about the format which I respect. But I hate when this meta is a good meta because is techable meta.
Yeah, well, I think you think wrong. I actually got into top 100 with discolock and ignite mage. Legend every month in both standard and wild. I'm pretty sure I have an idea how this game works.
You, on the other hand, seem to attack just because you're so sure about your argument. And being 100% sure about something often means stupidity (ask Socrates in this regard). Let me tell you that I wasn't pointing Questline hunter is the next Seedlock as you think I was making it to be. I was just going with the OP's perspective. Of course pirate warrior and even lock are as good contenders in the meta and depending on your pocket meta you face on of these 3 more often which leads to a similar unfun experience as the Seedlock meta. For example, I'm only playing against pirate warrior and questline hunter. If I don't try to heavily tech against them or play those decks myself, I can't win a game.
Nerfing everything is not a solution because other decks will rise and the history will only repeat. I'm not sure wild is even fixable at this point and it's probably not even intended to be.
I wish i would have recorded the game I lost - i was playing Even Renolock and i was able to get Skulking Geist out on Turn 5 with coin. I destroyed his entire deck except for 9 cards and I still lost from OTK.
I did the same with Questline hunter to some deck that played Geist on 5. I also beat a Reno Shudderwock shaman that was designed to beat my deck (Mindbreaker, Dirty Rat, Kobold Monk). Surely Questline hunter is fine if you play this garbage to specifically counter it and still fail sometimes.
Questline Druid is also a free win - I went 13-3 over the weekend with the deck, 6-0 against Odd Hunter. I finished five of the games with 40+ Health/Armour. I had 33 in the sixth.
Are you serious? First of all, Loatheb is one card. And on turn 5. And it delays it for one turn. Mutanus is played on even later turns. And dirty rat. Just as Mutanus, so easy to play around, enough cheap cost spells to pop your quest on Turn 6 n play your minion.
EDIT: Skullking Geist same shit, watched DaneHS today playing Patron warrior and he did put in Skullking geist as tech card against hunters. At the end, he removed it because if you cant play it on curve, its useless
Frankly I cut Geist from my Even Renolock. It does very little vs Odd Quest Hunter, as it is just too slow at 6 mana. Even ratting their quest reward may not be enough many times. When I win (around 20-25% of the time) is through a combination of lots of healing (Reno on 5 or 6 for example) and early giants out to smack them in the face (if you don't force them to start spending resources to kill big minions then you will be down to ~10HP or less by the time they complete the questline and then you will die in 1-2 turns no matter what tech you play)
They will naver make a balance , if they do .... will be insignificant.
The truth is that when a new exp comes out ... blizzard make nerfs/bufs/synergys who fits to the standart metta.
They actually zero f given for the wild.
If they didn't care anything in Wild, they wouldn't ban those cards at all. They do have minimal care but it is just not on their priority list.
I use Geist x2 in my Midrange Pirate Warrior to deal with Hunter:
- x2 to get higher mulligan for Geist
- Aggro PW shell to pressure them down in turns 1-5
- extra armor gain from either the 2-mana spell: Gain 10 armor or the 3-mana spell: Gain 8 armor
Every card that is more then 5 mana doesn't count as counter, since the game is over at this point.
I feel like the strongest decks are pirate warrior and even warlock.
Also HL decks do pretty well again. It just feels strange to play them, since the games take longer then 5 to 6 turns.