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    posted a message on How early are people in builds?
    Quote from Infirc >>

    Usually if i am below tier 4 before i hit 9 gold i go for top4 so yeah, around 8-9 when  you get your first t4 triple into a solid build-enabling t5 minion 

     Issues there involve a) hitting a triple on the turn you hit TT4 (or even the next) and b) Hitting something build defining from that (and not ending up with a sneed's or the 7/7 beast because there's nowt better, which just doesn't actually do much). It's well under half the time that you can do both, in my experience. When I hit 9 gold, I'm usually going to to TT4, unless I'm someone like Omu that powerlevels. But that's the right line of play to aim for, at least, as it was before?

    Posted in: Battlegrounds
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    posted a message on How early are people in builds?
    Quote from DickDraggin >>

    My last game with Omu I had a Chef Nomi on turn 5 and took an Elemental build to 1st.  Bob was nice to me right from turn 1 (2x sellementals).

    I find usually that I focus on stats early game and the right trade offs to level at the optimal times. Then I try to get some sort of mid-game build synergy going often instigated by a good T4 card.  But I am looking for the T5/T6 cards to shift to whatever late game build I can.  Of course Bob often misdirects me with one good card then nothing more.

    You can finish top 4 a lot with a strong mid game build < the top 20% MMR, but if you want more 1st place finishes you need to be looking to transition to a solid late game build as early as possible and/or get lucky.  But I find the top finishes often come when the late game build leverages my mid game.

    The higher your MMR the better you have to be at the late game.  Unfortunately your low MMR games don't really teach you to emphasize on this.  You kinda have to make your way up then ask yourself why you keep losing now.  It likely comes down to 1) not properly focusing on stats and the optimal leveling points early and 2) you really haven't learned the art of the late game yet.

    But Heros do matter huge. 

     I'm finding that it's hard to get any midgame build surviving to 12-15 to top 5; the meta's slowed down significantly. My issues seem to revolve around transitioning to a lategame build; I frequently see no build arounds in the first two turns at TT5, for example, whilst someone's cruising along and somehow getting Nomi to not be suicide. Any kind of slight tempo loss at around TT5 is 15-20 damage, which is one turn off dead, which means you have to be more conservative, going for tempo over value and it snowballs, in my experience. Had a few good games last night, but those have been ones where I hit early elementals and then more elementals, or was just scraping stuff and hit a pair of early lightforgeds or similar.

     

    So I'm seeing one person saying that their build is decided from hero choice and one person saying that TT4/5 build arounds are the key.

    Posted in: Battlegrounds
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    posted a message on Spell Schools - Deckbuilding Got Buffed?
    Quote from SinAscendant >>
    Quote from DeafKnight >>

    It makes trying to make a decent OTK deck (spell-based) a really torrid and unlikely affair. We know (from past experience) that Blizzard have outright stated they hate OTK decks and think they shouldn't be a thing and this is just another nail in the coffin that pushes Control decks to the fore.
    There might be other non-spell based OTK decks, for sure. But the spell damage ones are by far the most fun and this change definitely signals a drop in the fun-factor of the game for me.

     So the fun factor of the game for you is to be able to play a non interactive deck where your win or loss is determined by what cards you draw and not your actual skill?

     

    That sounds like a pretty shitty way to play dude. 

     You clearly do not understand combo decks. What cards you draw are generally a minimal impact compared to other archetypes (partly due to the sheer amount of draw in the decks); the two dominant factors are how you use spare parts of your combo to survive (combining knowing the burst your opp is likely to have and understanding which outs are best to play to) and the matchups; in part this is because of heavy draw. The matchups facet is something that impacts deckbuilding (tech for meta) and deck choice, but is a relatively uninteresting part. The main appeal is knowing how much damage you can afford to eat, reading if your opp has hate, if you can play around the hate, if it's worth playing around the hate, and similar.

     

    ETA: Here's an example of different gameplans for MUs. Freezemage vs Renolock, as I'm an old fogey. Gameplan for freeze was to be aggressive with chip damage to the face, and either force the lock to burn burst healing or to allow for a burst of 20-23 for lethal. After the burst heal, then you drp Alex and they've probably only got 8ish burst healing, allowing for a combo. Against the mirror, your soul is destroyed because it's boring as F and you never poke face, usually defensive alex atfer a block. Against Zoolock, you laugh as you win as long as you note their damage on board and add in ~8-12 burst. Against CW, you are sad and almost certainly lose, though I got that up to 25% WR with techs. Against almost anything, Loatheb is a pain, so you have to work out if you can play around it without losing too much etc..

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on How early are people in builds?

    How early do people find that they have to be in a build? I'm very much finding that if I'm not in one by turn 8ish, so before I'm tiering to 5, I'm then subjected to another 5 turns of straight losses as I try and build around whatever 5s I get offered on turn 9 to end up in 5th-7th on turns 12-15. This is obviously not what I want, but all the build arounds are at 5 or six. Just going for fat before that doesn't help you against 20/40 minions, for example, or the people already have that synergy going into TT5. All i'm doing is losing ~20-40 (with the odd -100 or +30) rating per game.

    Or is it basically a meta of 'these few heroes will dominate, all else is trash', a la just after elementals were added, when it wasn't worth me playing (just, you know, even worse, because there's no limit on how far you can fall)?

    Posted in: Battlegrounds
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    posted a message on Spell Schools - Deckbuilding Got Buffed?
    Quote from DeafKnight >>

    It makes trying to make a decent OTK deck (spell-based) a really torrid and unlikely affair. We know (from past experience) that Blizzard have outright stated they hate OTK decks and think they shouldn't be a thing and this is just another nail in the coffin that pushes Control decks to the fore.
    There might be other non-spell based OTK decks, for sure. But the spell damage ones are by far the most fun and this change definitely signals a drop in the fun-factor of the game for me.

     OTKs have been dwindling in STD, but will still be a thing in Wild, at least. Most standard OTKs have not been spell-based lately, though; Il'gy is, though it's unaffected by this kind of change and is odd (primarily it's the doubling at work, though there's sometimes one spell damage), but stuff like boar hunter wasn't. There's often a Maly druid esque thing, though never been a fan of those as they can't usually hit 30 in one turn from what i've seen, generally capping at 28. Malygos has been a thorn in Blizz' side for years, and was always going to get HoFed at some point anyway, with their dislike of combo.

    Wild still keeps Maly 1.0, at least, which is good. Janky maly sham and even maly hunter won't die quite that easily, just slowly getting eroded as the meta drifts to 100% secret mage.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Is Il'gynoth DH worth crafting?

    I'm a bit late, but I do have some comments here.

    Out of curiousity, how are people saying that this the best deck in the meta? How do you deal with a T6-7 survival (which happens pretty reliably because you're basically unable to pressure, in my experience) into multiple x/8s per turn? Or basically anything paladin with their very large T6-8 plays? I find that the meta is really unfriendly. In the right meta/a vacuum, it is strong.

    It can handle aggro (well, sometimes. Still struggles with some stuff, ofc., like rogues having 25 burst or warriors with endless skybarges), can handle control without illucia or a lucky mill from the demon, but does struggle against midrange and high HP minions, owing to the pretty hard cap of T9/10 for combo (can go off earlier, but requires a lucky skull on a demon or Il'gy, and also depends on if you can chip to 24 or if they heal etc..).

    Doesn't feel as hard to learn as some previous combo decks, though stuff like Freeze was more about the meta, other decks' burst, odds of them having that burst etc., as well as how much of the combo you can afford to spend as removal, whilst this is mainly the latter. 

    Posted in: Demon Hunter
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    posted a message on Shadow Hunter Vol'jin

    It's a potential combo card... but Maly is going from STD, replaced by a new version that doesn't have ridiculous spell damage. Would only really work in classes that can produce tokens (basically minionless deck bar this/target etc., with draw/tutors); something like sham/pal for the HP, or druid from spells. Maybe lock, with galakrond stuff? In Wild, you've got Ancestor's call for Sham, which is just better; you've got no burn for paladin, and thus if it's of use in Wild, it's going to be in druid. Probably won't have an impact in combo, I think, unless Blizz throw combo some love with another maly-esque card (which, tbh, they probably won't. Maly's wrecked design space for Blizz for years and, speaking as a combo player, should have gone HoF years ago), and even then it'll be standard. Could be a high cost, school specific spelldam card, though, so still some hope.

    Very much depends on if there's anything worth reducing to 5 mana at the cost of severe deckbuilding limitations and no battlecry as to if it's a useful combo card. Against combo, it's probably quite nasty. Heavily disruptive if there's enough combo around to warrant running it; it's an understatted 5-drop that could backfire a lot of the time when used offensively (combare to rat, who, being cheaper, could be paired with removal earlier, as well as being overstatted and taunt). Doubt we'll see it much, honestly, but depends on meta.

    Posted in: Shadow Hunter Vol'jin
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    posted a message on Tickatus is good or bad for this game because...
    Quote from Tykaine_J >>

    If you play a 3-card deck in a game based on 30-card decks, you must be prepared to hit the conceed button if you lose one of your 3 cards.

    Tickatus is too slow to corrupt anyway.

    Most of the time he is just a 6 mana 8/8, which is decent stats, but you aren't going to be playing that on curve. 

     Speaking as a combo player - getting Tick'd sucks. But that's the game. So does libram paladin, just you get shafted at the other end of the game. Or getting hit by Illucia. These things happen; I've survived more Tickatuses than I've lost to, playing DH OTK when I'm in STD. It's like playing MTG and going 'I'm playing oops, so I'm dead to force, but I crush pretty much anything else', or 'I'm playing D&T, so I lose to Oops/belcher, but have a good MU against the slower combos'. Bad MUs happen; some games are unwinnable. Either you make up the percentages elsewhere, you change deck, or you accept that you're not going to rank up and play a fun deck.

    Obviously, in Wild, it's far too slow.

    Tick fills a similar niche to combo in HS - it punishes greedy control, reigning that in. Is it too much? Eh, maybe. I don't think so, but then I rarely see it.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on Duplicate protection rule

    Owned after the duplicate protection rule and disenchanted counts as owned. They did that not long after introducing it to stop people easily farming nerfed cards for bonus dust.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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    posted a message on 19.4.1 Balance Patch Notes - Changes to Hysteria and Duels

    Latter is better design - just changing Tiller means that you have that constrained design space. I suspect there's underlying code changes that would make immune+not targettable wonky, and would certainly take more testing/introduce more bugs. But it does feel bleh changing Hysteria.

    Posted in: News
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    posted a message on Il'gynoth OTK
    Quote from t0nkpilS >>

    If you are trying to play it in wild, you stand no chance. In standard you can win games against slower decks, but that's it. Lifesteal DH is pretty bad atm.

     Standard - wasn't aware it was a thing in Wild! I'm usually a wild player, though. So just not in the best meta spot? Ah, well. At least it's a standard otk I can mess around with :) (and yes, those examples wree from standard. complete lack of early pressure lets slow decks do greedy stuff).

    Quote from MoneroFreedom >>

     Wild is the superior format, standard is limited.

     I tend to prefer Wild, but my main Wild deck cannot deal with Secret mage, so that's on hold for a bit. Running secret hate is just so antisynergystic it would lose more games than it'd gain, unfortunately, due to the wonky build (three minion Malygos Shaman. Yes, I like janky combo :P). Did play some priest, but prefer the gameplay of the janky shammy.

    Posted in: Demon Hunter
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    posted a message on Il'gynoth OTK

     Really struggling to get anywhere with this deck. Just can't beat druids with their couple of 8/8s by turn 6, or priests just chipping you down whilst you draw... a few damage of lifesteal that don't kill a thing. Without hard wipes the lategame is basically dead. Even mages just drop a runes and laugh (since there's almost no bait in the decks I'm seeing), or you drop a multi-card three damage wipe and then they drop Jandice for about 12/12 of stats; what kind of critical turn should I be usually seeing? What matchups are basically insta-concedes?

    My main issue seems to be handling decently fat boards without just dumping combo pieces and then being unable to lethal later. 

    Posted in: Demon Hunter
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    posted a message on 19.4.1 Balance Patch Notes - Changes to Hysteria and Duels

    But the other cards are commons - so this is slightly better for dust refunds. And a mechanics change to immune would mean zero dust refund!

    Posted in: News
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    posted a message on 19.4.1 Balance Patch Notes - Changes to Hysteria and Duels

    Not a fan of changing Hysteria as opposed to the immune mechanics, tbh, though that would have a higher chance of breaking something. Does make the card a bit worse, but, honestly, 90% of the times you're casting it in a control deck (i.e. without the combo), you're using it as a clear or quasi-clear, so, on balance, no real change to the standard uses for the card.

    Posted in: News
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    posted a message on Is the new Tavern Special Bundle worth it?

    So, break it down; assuming dusting both legs and comparing to packs: each leg is 400, each pack is 100. 20 Eur for 2800 dust; 30 eur for 4300 dust. Roughly similar value, 25 pack is a smidgen better dust/Eur, 140 dust/eur and 143.33 recurring dust/eur. None of the buying packs gets to 100 dust/eur.

    If you're a collector or want the legendaries for posterity etc., things are different.

    Posted in: General Discussion
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