So murlocs is basically dead, outside of a miraculous brann, late transition. Mid game mechs is eliminating murlocs and then losing to late game demons steal, what do you think would be a good murloc buff that doesn’t get us back to murloc hell?
inb4 I saw kripp win with murlocs in a YouTube highlight so they must be strong,..hur dur.
Not sure the answer but you're totally right. I've tried murlocs a few times recently and have been getting mauled by mechs in the mid rounds. Maybe make lookout tier 4?
Murlocs are good for Early, but for a win with them you need super luck in first 6-7 Turns and after that you need Toxfins, Seers and Brann/Megasaur.
With the removal of Amalgam their mid-game and protective body to buff with Taunt got obliterated, so they went to only as super-duper luck from Early or get Brann and switch Tier 5-6 and win.
I think they need to make a decent murloc for tier 4. That's a big issue. Tripling murlocs on tier 3 feels really bad because there isn't anything worth it on tier 4 so you have to tier up too early to get anything worth tripling into.
I think Murlocs are in a decent spot right now, since Bagurgle was added. They are pretty bad most of the time, but when you make it to 5, get Brann and Bagurgles and Primalfins, and maybe Megasaurs from triples, they can get very strong very quickly, and sometimes strong enough to beat everything else. They can't really stand up against anything in the midgame, but they have that unique massive lategame snowball potential. It's a risky strategy, that oftentimes won't work out, but you may end up with an invincible board.
I like the idea of having a high risk/high reward strategy in Battlegrounds, in opposition to the many midgame strategies, that are more consistent, but don't scale as much later on. I would hesitate to make Murlocs any more consistent. Maybe put Coldlight Seer on 2 again, since it's about the most important Murloc you need to stabilize, and making it easier to find could mitigate the importance of getting Brann as quickly as possible.
If you want to significantly buff Murlocs, you would need to take out the lategame snowball potential, either removing Bagurgle, Primalfin or Megasaur. It would turn Murlocs into just another midgame strategy with some lategame power spikes, which I find kinda boring. I'd rather have all tribes play differently.
I think Beasts are more in need of a buff, since they also rely on lategame minions (Hydra, Goldrinn, Mama Bear, Baron, Argus), but unlike Murlocs, they are rather limited in growth, vulnerable to snipes, and the token synergy with Pack Leader and Mama Bear oftentimes isn't quite on the same level as giving all your minions Divine Shield or Poison.
I think Murlocs are in a decent spot right now, since Bagurgle was added. They are pretty bad most of the time, but when you make it to 5, get Brann and Bagurgles and Primalfins, and maybe Megasaurs from triples, they can get very strong very quickly, and sometimes strong enough to beat everything else. They can't really stand up against anything in the midgame, but they have that unique massive lategame snowball potential. It's a risky strategy, that oftentimes won't work out, but you may end up with an invincible board..
This paragraph is amazing.
murlocs are in a decent spot......they are pretty bad most of the time...if you make it to the endgame and high roll you can sometimes win.....they can’t really stand up to anything in the mid game.....they have snowball potion tail....that often won’t work out...but youcould get an invincible board.
I think they need to make a decent murloc for tier 4. That's a big issue. Tripling murlocs on tier 3 feels really bad because there isn't anything worth it on tier 4 so you have to tier up too early to get anything worth tripling into.
It's exactly this. Every. Single. Build should have an option in all 6 tiers, no question whatsoever.
I think Murlocs are in a decent spot right now, since Bagurgle was added. They are pretty bad most of the time, but when you make it to 5, get Brann and Bagurgles and Primalfins, and maybe Megasaurs from triples, they can get very strong very quickly, and sometimes strong enough to beat everything else. They can't really stand up against anything in the midgame, but they have that unique massive lategame snowball potential. It's a risky strategy, that oftentimes won't work out, but you may end up with an invincible board..
This paragraph is amazing.
murlocs are in a decent spot......they are pretty bad most of the time...if you make it to the endgame and high roll you can sometimes win.....they can’t really stand up to anything in the mid game.....they have snowball potion tail....that often won’t work out...but youcould get an invincible board.
don’t sound so decent to me lol
I think what they are trying to say is being bad most of the time balances out by being absolutely OP and unstoppable if you get lucky. It's all about finding the right balance. If you have a tribe that can build an unstoppable board in the late game you have to make that tribe weak in the earlier parts of the game.
There are two major problems with murlocs, and both need to change to ensure balance. Murlocs get pillaged in the midgame, because they lack the survivabilty of every other tribe, so obviously you want to add/change something to ensure that they can get to T5 before getting blown out. Maybe you put Seer back at 2, but my vote goes to a new murloc as it also makes it harder to triple with Lookout. Then the real problem becomes apparent again, as it was before the murloc nerf: Megasaur. If you do anything to buff early game, it becomes too easy to coast your way to Megasaur and go AFK. Megasaur has two major flaws: the obvious is that it gives divine shield and poisonous, but the sleeper problem is that it is the only T6 that breaks the game because of its battlecry. It goes back to the issue that demons had when Watcher was 3 and everyone was cycling the same cards back and forth to one another, while the two people that didn't go demons get stomped. It is like a cruel game of keepaway that feels just as demoralizing.
There are two major problems with murlocs, and both need to change to ensure balance. Murlocs get pillaged in the midgame, because they lack the survivabilty of every other tribe, so obviously you want to add/change something to ensure that they can get to T5 before getting blown out. Maybe you put Seer back at 2, but my vote goes to a new murloc as it also makes it harder to triple with Lookout. Then the real problem becomes apparent again, as it was before the murloc nerf: Megasaur. If you do anything to buff early game, it becomes too easy to coast your way to Megasaur and go AFK. Megasaur has two major flaws: the obvious is that it gives divine shield and poisonous, but the sleeper problem is that it is the only T6 that breaks the game because of its battlecry. It goes back to the issue that demons had when Watcher was 3 and everyone was cycling the same cards back and forth to one another, while the two people that didn't go demons get stomped. It is like a cruel game of keepaway that feels just as demoralizing.
There is a huge difference between Megasaur on 6 and Watcher on 3: One is tier 6, the other is tier 3. One you might never end up seeing, the other was almost guaranteed to show up for at least one player, usually more. One gives you a massive powerboost towards end, the other could grow so quickly that it would oftentimes blast everything else out of the water, before anyone can realistically push to tier 6. Not to mention that you didn't really need to level higher than 3 to make a Watcher strategy work, and you usually got one Weaver, maybe even two or a triple before you get to 3, and from there, every single demon you bought came with a massive buff.
Also, it's rather uncommon, if not unrealistic, that two people trade Murlocs or even Megasaurs, since it's unlikely enough for one player to survive long enough with Murlocs to benefit from Megasaur, much less two. And even if, it's rather difficult to find a specific 6 without triples, compared to the 7 or so demons on tiers 1-5.
As I said, the lategame snowball potential of Murlocs would become a problem when they make the strategy more consistent and easier to succeed with, but I think, with Murlocs being as challenging to pull off as they are, it's fine that Megasaur, when the stars align correctly, can get you that 1st place. If Megasaur is considered too good and gets removed, I'd agree that Murlocs would need a buff.
Toxfin should be TT5 imo, with Lookout in TT4. I feel like they swapped the wrong Murloc.
Agreed. Toxfin doesn't really move the needle during the mid-game. Lookout would help with mid-game consistency helping you to find more Seers and Bagurgles when you need the health boost. And while Lookout is powerful, it's not that strong without Brann, so I don't think it's a game-breaker at T4.
That said, Murlocs trump everything at T6, so it's a delicate balance. It kind of needs to be a high-risk/high-reward strategy otherwise everything else becomes obsolete.
Is megasaur the problem or is brann + megasaur the problem. My vote is to return the murlocs to where they were and simply move brann to 6.
Edit. Just pulled off the brann murloc transition to a board of Devine shield poisonous murlocs and STILL lost to a golden kangor and rivendare resummoning a board full of sneeds, which summoned a board full of more minions. Cleared a total of 47 minions and still dieting to a 27 hit to the face.
megasaur is not a problem when we you can generate 29 minions from 2 cards.
There are two major problems with murlocs, and both need to change to ensure balance. Murlocs get pillaged in the midgame, because they lack the survivabilty of every other tribe, so obviously you want to add/change something to ensure that they can get to T5 before getting blown out. Maybe you put Seer back at 2, but my vote goes to a new murloc as it also makes it harder to triple with Lookout. Then the real problem becomes apparent again, as it was before the murloc nerf: Megasaur. If you do anything to buff early game, it becomes too easy to coast your way to Megasaur and go AFK. Megasaur has two major flaws: the obvious is that it gives divine shield and poisonous, but the sleeper problem is that it is the only T6 that breaks the game because of its battlecry. It goes back to the issue that demons had when Watcher was 3 and everyone was cycling the same cards back and forth to one another, while the two people that didn't go demons get stomped. It is like a cruel game of keepaway that feels just as demoralizing.
There is a huge difference between Megasaur on 6 and Watcher on 3: One is tier 6, the other is tier 3. One you might never end up seeing, the other was almost guaranteed to show up for at least one player, usually more. One gives you a massive powerboost towards end, the other could grow so quickly that it would oftentimes blast everything else out of the water, before anyone can realistically push to tier 6. Not to mention that you didn't really need to level higher than 3 to make a Watcher strategy work, and you usually got one Weaver, maybe even two or a triple before you get to 3, and from there, every single demon you bought came with a massive buff.
Also, it's rather uncommon, if not unrealistic, that two people trade Murlocs or even Megasaurs, since it's unlikely enough for one player to survive long enough with Murlocs to benefit from Megasaur, much less two. And even if, it's rather difficult to find a specific 6 without triples, compared to the 7 or so demons on tiers 1-5.
As I said, the lategame snowball potential of Murlocs would become a problem when they make the strategy more consistent and easier to succeed with, but I think, with Murlocs being as challenging to pull off as they are, it's fine that Megasaur, when the stars align correctly, can get you that 1st place. If Megasaur is considered too good and gets removed, I'd agree that Murlocs would need a buff.
I apologize if my post was confusing, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Megasaur having the battlecry be the effect is the problem because you don't keep it. There is something like 6 of each T6 minion, but if you don't need to keep it, everyone can trade them back and get another; or another player can utilize it. Before murlocs got nerfed (when Seer was two) it is highly probably that multiple people could go murlocs, have a strong board and beat out everyone that wasn't murlocs. You would see 4+ players with murlocs, which was the same issue when demons were running the show. If you have low tier minions that become overpowered, multiple people can do it successfully in the same game. Losing to murlocs every round wasn't fun or interactive because there isn't diversity if the everyone can do the same strategy and be successful.
As far as transitioning goes, it should be completely possible to still lose. If someone went full deathrattle all game, why should you be able to stomp them with a T5 transition? The problem is that the transition is even possible in the first place.
As someone who tries to play murlocs almost every game, I think they're fine. Yes, you get repeatedly stomped on in the mid game, but the goal of the build is to find Megasaur and become unstoppable. If that goal was any easier to achieve then the game would be all murlocs all the time, but if it was any harder to achieve then it would feel pointless trying to pull it off. As it is I think it's nicely balanced and I enjoy the challenge.
The problem is they are very squishy and have no natural attack buffs.
Your goal is to upgrade your tavern ASAP. To get to the tier 5 (4 for triplets) and start your insane buffing. Maybe some new Murloc to for buffing, but then again you should nerf something
Unbeatable late game should be harder to pull off. You can't force it all the time like Kripp does, but murlocs is completely viable. It is the only build that you know when facing them at certain stages that first has gone out the window.
Murlocs dont need a buff , before they were nerfed they pushed out every other strategy out of the game.
The only way they can be buffed is if Megasaur is removed from the game, and even then they would be a bit too strong.
I personaly think they are fine as they are. They are the best build in the late game but you have to make a skillful transition in order to pull it off , which is a reasonable condition to get the best build in the game.
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So murlocs is basically dead, outside of a miraculous brann, late transition. Mid game mechs is eliminating murlocs and then losing to late game demons steal, what do you think would be a good murloc buff that doesn’t get us back to murloc hell?
inb4 I saw kripp win with murlocs in a YouTube highlight so they must be strong,..hur dur.
Thoughts?
Not sure the answer but you're totally right. I've tried murlocs a few times recently and have been getting mauled by mechs in the mid rounds. Maybe make lookout tier 4?
Murlocs are good for Early, but for a win with them you need super luck in first 6-7 Turns and after that you need Toxfins, Seers and Brann/Megasaur.
With the removal of Amalgam their mid-game and protective body to buff with Taunt got obliterated, so they went to only as super-duper luck from Early or get Brann and switch Tier 5-6 and win.
I think they need to make a decent murloc for tier 4. That's a big issue. Tripling murlocs on tier 3 feels really bad because there isn't anything worth it on tier 4 so you have to tier up too early to get anything worth tripling into.
I think Murlocs are in a decent spot right now, since Bagurgle was added. They are pretty bad most of the time, but when you make it to 5, get Brann and Bagurgles and Primalfins, and maybe Megasaurs from triples, they can get very strong very quickly, and sometimes strong enough to beat everything else. They can't really stand up against anything in the midgame, but they have that unique massive lategame snowball potential. It's a risky strategy, that oftentimes won't work out, but you may end up with an invincible board.
I like the idea of having a high risk/high reward strategy in Battlegrounds, in opposition to the many midgame strategies, that are more consistent, but don't scale as much later on. I would hesitate to make Murlocs any more consistent. Maybe put Coldlight Seer on 2 again, since it's about the most important Murloc you need to stabilize, and making it easier to find could mitigate the importance of getting Brann as quickly as possible.
If you want to significantly buff Murlocs, you would need to take out the lategame snowball potential, either removing Bagurgle, Primalfin or Megasaur. It would turn Murlocs into just another midgame strategy with some lategame power spikes, which I find kinda boring. I'd rather have all tribes play differently.
I think Beasts are more in need of a buff, since they also rely on lategame minions (Hydra, Goldrinn, Mama Bear, Baron, Argus), but unlike Murlocs, they are rather limited in growth, vulnerable to snipes, and the token synergy with Pack Leader and Mama Bear oftentimes isn't quite on the same level as giving all your minions Divine Shield or Poison.
This paragraph is amazing.
murlocs are in a decent spot......they are pretty bad most of the time...if you make it to the endgame and high roll you can sometimes win.....they can’t really stand up to anything in the mid game.....they have snowball potion tail....that often won’t work out...but youcould get an invincible board.
don’t sound so decent to me lol
Toxfin should be TT5 imo, with Lookout in TT4. I feel like they swapped the wrong Murloc.
It's exactly this. Every. Single. Build should have an option in all 6 tiers, no question whatsoever.
I think what they are trying to say is being bad most of the time balances out by being absolutely OP and unstoppable if you get lucky. It's all about finding the right balance. If you have a tribe that can build an unstoppable board in the late game you have to make that tribe weak in the earlier parts of the game.
There are two major problems with murlocs, and both need to change to ensure balance. Murlocs get pillaged in the midgame, because they lack the survivabilty of every other tribe, so obviously you want to add/change something to ensure that they can get to T5 before getting blown out. Maybe you put Seer back at 2, but my vote goes to a new murloc as it also makes it harder to triple with Lookout. Then the real problem becomes apparent again, as it was before the murloc nerf: Megasaur. If you do anything to buff early game, it becomes too easy to coast your way to Megasaur and go AFK. Megasaur has two major flaws: the obvious is that it gives divine shield and poisonous, but the sleeper problem is that it is the only T6 that breaks the game because of its battlecry. It goes back to the issue that demons had when Watcher was 3 and everyone was cycling the same cards back and forth to one another, while the two people that didn't go demons get stomped. It is like a cruel game of keepaway that feels just as demoralizing.
There is a huge difference between Megasaur on 6 and Watcher on 3: One is tier 6, the other is tier 3. One you might never end up seeing, the other was almost guaranteed to show up for at least one player, usually more. One gives you a massive powerboost towards end, the other could grow so quickly that it would oftentimes blast everything else out of the water, before anyone can realistically push to tier 6. Not to mention that you didn't really need to level higher than 3 to make a Watcher strategy work, and you usually got one Weaver, maybe even two or a triple before you get to 3, and from there, every single demon you bought came with a massive buff.
Also, it's rather uncommon, if not unrealistic, that two people trade Murlocs or even Megasaurs, since it's unlikely enough for one player to survive long enough with Murlocs to benefit from Megasaur, much less two. And even if, it's rather difficult to find a specific 6 without triples, compared to the 7 or so demons on tiers 1-5.
As I said, the lategame snowball potential of Murlocs would become a problem when they make the strategy more consistent and easier to succeed with, but I think, with Murlocs being as challenging to pull off as they are, it's fine that Megasaur, when the stars align correctly, can get you that 1st place. If Megasaur is considered too good and gets removed, I'd agree that Murlocs would need a buff.
Agreed. Toxfin doesn't really move the needle during the mid-game. Lookout would help with mid-game consistency helping you to find more Seers and Bagurgles when you need the health boost. And while Lookout is powerful, it's not that strong without Brann, so I don't think it's a game-breaker at T4.
That said, Murlocs trump everything at T6, so it's a delicate balance. It kind of needs to be a high-risk/high-reward strategy otherwise everything else becomes obsolete.
I would just remove Gentle Megasaur entirely. Replace it with a Murloc that has a larger body and adapts itself when it enters.
Is megasaur the problem or is brann + megasaur the problem. My vote is to return the murlocs to where they were and simply move brann to 6.
Edit. Just pulled off the brann murloc transition to a board of Devine shield poisonous murlocs and STILL lost to a golden kangor and rivendare resummoning a board full of sneeds, which summoned a board full of more minions. Cleared a total of 47 minions and still dieting to a 27 hit to the face.
megasaur is not a problem when we you can generate 29 minions from 2 cards.
I apologize if my post was confusing, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Megasaur having the battlecry be the effect is the problem because you don't keep it. There is something like 6 of each T6 minion, but if you don't need to keep it, everyone can trade them back and get another; or another player can utilize it. Before murlocs got nerfed (when Seer was two) it is highly probably that multiple people could go murlocs, have a strong board and beat out everyone that wasn't murlocs. You would see 4+ players with murlocs, which was the same issue when demons were running the show. If you have low tier minions that become overpowered, multiple people can do it successfully in the same game. Losing to murlocs every round wasn't fun or interactive because there isn't diversity if the everyone can do the same strategy and be successful.
As far as transitioning goes, it should be completely possible to still lose. If someone went full deathrattle all game, why should you be able to stomp them with a T5 transition? The problem is that the transition is even possible in the first place.
You forgot king bagurgle and depending if ur murlocs have high attack toxfin become lessen importent
As someone who tries to play murlocs almost every game, I think they're fine. Yes, you get repeatedly stomped on in the mid game, but the goal of the build is to find Megasaur and become unstoppable. If that goal was any easier to achieve then the game would be all murlocs all the time, but if it was any harder to achieve then it would feel pointless trying to pull it off. As it is I think it's nicely balanced and I enjoy the challenge.
The problem is they are very squishy and have no natural attack buffs.
Your goal is to upgrade your tavern ASAP. To get to the tier 5 (4 for triplets) and start your insane buffing. Maybe some new Murloc to for buffing, but then again you should nerf something
Unbeatable late game should be harder to pull off. You can't force it all the time like Kripp does, but murlocs is completely viable. It is the only build that you know when facing them at certain stages that first has gone out the window.
Murlocs dont need a buff , before they were nerfed they pushed out every other strategy out of the game.
The only way they can be buffed is if Megasaur is removed from the game, and even then they would be a bit too strong.
I personaly think they are fine as they are. They are the best build in the late game but you have to make a skillful transition in order to pull it off , which is a reasonable condition to get the best build in the game.