Prior to the undertaker nerf, Zoolock was not extremely popular seeing as it had a bad matchup against hunter generally and hunter was honestly a more consistent face deck. With the nerf of undertaker, Zoolock will probably become a more popular deck. However what will this zoo look like? I believe its going to be more board control based. I wanted some opinions on my build below along with the state of zoo in general.
I raise an eyebrow at Zombie Chow in zoo. How is it working out for you? I feel like unless you can drop them turn 1 and 2, they're would end up being counterproductive of what the deck is trying to accomplish. They seem to be better suited for mid ranged/control decks IMO but I don't think I've ever really tried them in zoo.
At a glance, I'd probably take at least 1 chow out and put in an owl for silence. However this is one of those decks I feel like I'd have to test for myself before I can really give valuable feedback. Sorry if I'm not more helpful :|
The purpose of Chow is to maintain an early game board. most non-warlock classes cant deal with it out side of their own chow. meaning that along with you early early drops you set up a board that they cant clear outside of AoE and even outside of AoE most of the time. The purpose of the deck is not to continuously hit face and win. The purpose is to maintain a strong board till the opponent cant compete.
I originally thought about owl. My previous version played 2 in fact. The mean reason i took it out is because the only thing it really hits is Sludge belcher and if i need to deal with sludge belcher ill probably have a board and if I don't i'll probably lose anyways. Any feedback is appreciated.
Never been a fan of 2x Defender of Argus myself. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing card, but it's a card I rarely want 2 of at the same time, and it's not the greatest in a top deck war.
I'd consider cutting 1 Defender of Argus for an Imp-losion. Since I've started using Imp-losion I haven't been disappointed with it one bit, and with 9 buffing cards and 2 Knife Jugglers you'll always have a use for those little buggers.
Not sure how I feel about your Shattered Sun Clerics, it's a great card, but a good number of your 1-2 mana targets aren't that great to curve into (Voidwalker, Zombie Chow, and sometimes Haunted Creeper are good, but the rest don't get out of that 3 HP vulnerability range. It also isn't that great of an Nerubian Egg enabler since it being a 1/3 isn't going to trade with anything by itself).
Rather than Chow, I think we're going to see a return of the 1-mana taunts (and some of the smaller deathrattle minions may get swapped out for mechs).
How does the paladin match up works for you? I kind of find it very hard to deal with, against of zombie chow+shielded minibot+truesilver openings. Or a combination involving some of these.
Your deck looks a bit too heavy in 3 mana slot and a little too low on 1 mana slot department for me by the way.
Im just going to address everything in one post to save time.
Paladin Matchup: I believe the pally matchup comes down to who gets the stronger start. if you still have a decent board past turn 3 you probably winning. past that you basically just need to play an egg so that your board doesnt die to consecrate.
As for the heavy 3 drops I totally agree. I put more 3 drops in at a lack of 1 drops because their aren't any one drops worth playing. Any of the 1 mana 2/1 just aren't good in the deck without undertaker.
Imp-losion: I don't know how I feel about this card. I understand how good it can be but when i compare it to Dark iron it just doesn't seem good. dark iron is a 4/4 bodies that does 2 damage. Imp-losion is a 2 damage with a 2/2 body a 3 damage and a 3/3 bodies and 4 damage 4/4 bodies. The only case which imp is better is if it deals 4 damage and only slightly at that. for 2 more damage your 4/4 bodies gets spread across 4 minion which makes it so much worse. Also i don't consider it comboing with juggler to be worth it because i more than likely wont have both on turn 6 and juggler is an auto kill.
Shattered sun: I mainly put this card into the deck as filler. I didn't have a card that i thought would fit this style of the deck and such just throw in Cleric.
I think defender is fine at 2. I feel like i should mabye try it out at one. Its just the lack of taunt it the deck makes be want to play two.
Finally ill probably play 1 overwheling. gives the decka bit more reach and helps trigger the eggs. Any suggestions as for what to cut?
"Most people don't expect a BGH target in zoo" Yes and Adding in sea giant give them a BGH target. Also sea giant is one the short list of cards that do not belong in zoo imo.
As for bloodknight probably not. It really only hits shielded mini-bot. I mean it hits tirion too but i'd rather add an owl for that which my opinions are previous stated.
Also something i forgot to mention: if any one wants to help me test against the things like Pally, warrior, etc i'd appreciate it.
Thats mainly because hunter cant deal with big minions generally. Against most other classes its a bhg target. It gets discarded by doom guard and just generally doesnt do enough. As per implosion my opinion still stands but her's the thing about AoE though. Odds are you not just going to hit the imp with AoE.
"Most people don't expect a BGH target in zoo" Yes and Adding in sea giant give them a BGH target. Also sea giant is one the short list of cards that do not belong in zoo imo.
As for bloodknight probably not. It really only hits shielded mini-bot. I mean it hits tirion too but i'd rather add an owl for that which my opinions are previous stated.
Also something i forgot to mention: if any one wants to help me test against the things like Pally, warrior, etc i'd appreciate it.
in a Dr. Boom -> every one runs BGH meta it makes no sense to run giants. Especially since EVERYONE expects Sea Giants because everyone heard of Xixos Zoo which in my opinion wasn't really good anymore after the first few weeks. So I agree 100% on that point.
I do run one Imp-losion in my new Zoo deck because it's an average of 2.5 damage and 2.5 imps in one card but it's one of the fist cards I would cut because it's really not that great because it's expensive.
Bloodknight is something I consider when there are a lot of paladins and you run double Squire. I'm still a bit on the fence when it comes to squire with abusive it kills a mech warper "for free" which is nice.
I'm not a fan of Undertaker in Zoo at all. Yes it helps with board control but it will break your legs in match ups where you want to be aggressive. Druid, Freeze Mage, Warrior, you name it. Yea 2/1 minions are easy to remove but it usually costs them mana. If I coin out two leper gnomes and my enemy uses his turn to remove one, I think it's a great success.
I don't like dark bomb in Zoo because I honestly think 3 damage is just not enough. If it doesn't kill a 3/4 I don't want to play it. But I get it. I hate losing Doomguard to a soul fire.
How much do you enjoy playing the eggs? I personally don't want to play them anymore. I always thought of them as being too slow but they worked great with undertaker. But without Undertaker I don't like them at all.
Power Overwhelming though is a great idea. I like it now, while I never played it pre nerf.
Personal favorite at the moment is Micro Machine though.
Argent squire was a card I was highly considering even without the bloodknight. the reason i ened up not using it is because of how hard it loses to any 1 attack minion. Creeper, Acolyte, armorsmith. It eneds up just doing nothing.
I don't play undertaker after the nerf. it just doesn't fit in zoo any more. The reason i don't play 1 health 1 mana minions is because yes they do take a turn to remove but you don't want you minions to be removed. You want to be keep and establish a board.
Egg is mandatory in zoo. at worst its Anti-AoE and thats good enough in my mind.
How has micro-machine actually worked for you? im curious it seems like it would be bad for the same reason undertaker is bad.
Micro Machine just does great work. He grows so much faster without you having to bother playing a DR. He is great if you can protect him a little but at worst Micro Machine will eat removal. I saw everything from Fireball, BGH, SW:D. I would run at least one. I do run two and it wins me game after game. But I rarely face paladin. I love it. At worst it's a "scary 2/2".
Imp-losion: I don't know how I feel about this card. I understand how good it can be but when i compare it to Dark iron it just doesn't seem good. dark iron is a 4/4 bodies that does 2 damage. Imp-losion is a 2 damage with a 2/2 body a 3 damage and a 3/3 bodies and 4 damage 4/4 bodies. The only case which imp is better is if it deals 4 damage and only slightly at that. for 2 more damage your 4/4 bodies gets spread across 4 minion which makes it so much worse. Also i don't consider it comboing with juggler to be worth it because i more than likely wont have both on turn 6 and juggler is an auto kill.
I think you are missing the real power of Imp-losion. It's best use is immediately after your opponent wipes your board and still has a body on his side of the field. It will usually kill the monster on his side while giving you 3 bodies that you can buff on your next turn to re-establish board presence. It actually helps a LOT against any priest match-up since if they Archenai + Circle to kill your board you can simply Imp the 1 HP Archenai and immediately re-establish your board.
Zombie Chow is Zoo just doesn't work. Yes, you're going for board control, but you're still an aggressive deck. Giving you opponent 5 life is basically skipping one or two turns worth of damage. Buying your opponent turns is not what you want as the beatdown.
Imp-losion is a great tempo play and usually forces your opponent to board wipe or die, which is exactly what you want in Zoo. Great for softening or outright killing mid game bodies. It can be inconsistent, so i'd only run one copy. I'd cut out a Defender of Argus for one copy.
Shattered Sun Cleric is not that great since it's not really a 3-drop. If your opponent removes your first two plays, then playing a naked cleric will usually be your only choice, and it will feel terrible. Cutting it out leaves some tech slots open, so you could probably fit an Ironbeak Owl and Loatheb, which are both great in Zoo.
I'd also cut out the Mortal Coil, since it is a very low impact card and there's better stuff than it. You can put in a second Darkbomb, or even cut out both and put Soulfire back in.
Zombie Chow is Zoo just doesn't work. Yes, you're going for board control, but you're still an aggressive deck. Giving you opponent 5 life is basically skipping one or two turns worth of damage. Buying your opponent turns is not what you want as the beatdown.
Imp-losion is a great tempo play and usually forces your opponent to board wipe or die, which is exactly what you want in Zoo. Great for softening or outright killing mid game bodies. It can be inconsistent, so i'd only run one copy. I'd cut out a Defender of Argus for one copy.
Shattered Sun Cleric is not that great since it's not really a 3-drop. If your opponent removes your first two plays, then playing a naked cleric will usually be your only choice, and it will feel terrible. Cutting it out leaves some tech slots open, so you could probably fit an Ironbeak Owl and Loatheb, which are both great in Zoo.
I'd also cut out the Mortal Coil, since it is a very low impact card and there's better stuff than it. You can put in a second Darkbomb, or even cut out both and put Soulfire back in.
The thing about chow is you play it turn 1. its generally dead by turn 3. Odds are your not missing any damage because you haven't deal any damage yet.
Imp-losion as previously stated needs more testing imo.
SSC is more or less just something im trying currently. Which is why im keeping it in for the time being. I will say that I think loatheb is an mediocre card in zoo.
Mortal coil is what im probably going to replace for power overwhelming.
Prior to the undertaker nerf, Zoolock was not extremely popular seeing as it had a bad matchup against hunter generally and hunter was honestly a more consistent face deck. With the nerf of undertaker, Zoolock will probably become a more popular deck. However what will this zoo look like? I believe its going to be more board control based. I wanted some opinions on my build below along with the state of zoo in general.
Current Zoo:
I raise an eyebrow at Zombie Chow in zoo. How is it working out for you? I feel like unless you can drop them turn 1 and 2, they're would end up being counterproductive of what the deck is trying to accomplish. They seem to be better suited for mid ranged/control decks IMO but I don't think I've ever really tried them in zoo.
At a glance, I'd probably take at least 1 chow out and put in an owl for silence. However this is one of those decks I feel like I'd have to test for myself before I can really give valuable feedback. Sorry if I'm not more helpful :|
The purpose of Chow is to maintain an early game board. most non-warlock classes cant deal with it out side of their own chow. meaning that along with you early early drops you set up a board that they cant clear outside of AoE and even outside of AoE most of the time. The purpose of the deck is not to continuously hit face and win. The purpose is to maintain a strong board till the opponent cant compete.
I originally thought about owl. My previous version played 2 in fact. The mean reason i took it out is because the only thing it really hits is Sludge belcher and if i need to deal with sludge belcher ill probably have a board and if I don't i'll probably lose anyways. Any feedback is appreciated.
Never been a fan of 2x Defender of Argus myself. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing card, but it's a card I rarely want 2 of at the same time, and it's not the greatest in a top deck war.
I'd consider cutting 1 Defender of Argus for an Imp-losion. Since I've started using Imp-losion I haven't been disappointed with it one bit, and with 9 buffing cards and 2 Knife Jugglers you'll always have a use for those little buggers.
Not sure how I feel about your Shattered Sun Clerics, it's a great card, but a good number of your 1-2 mana targets aren't that great to curve into (Voidwalker, Zombie Chow, and sometimes Haunted Creeper are good, but the rest don't get out of that 3 HP vulnerability range. It also isn't that great of an Nerubian Egg enabler since it being a 1/3 isn't going to trade with anything by itself).
I'd probably cut 1 for an Ironbeak Owl and the other for maybe a Soulfire or Power Overwhelming
Any zoolock deck not running Imp-losion is just wrong. The card is so overpowered in zoo decks, it's pretty much a must have.
Rather than Chow, I think we're going to see a return of the 1-mana taunts (and some of the smaller deathrattle minions may get swapped out for mechs).
How does the paladin match up works for you? I kind of find it very hard to deal with, against of zombie chow+shielded minibot+truesilver openings. Or a combination involving some of these.
Your deck looks a bit too heavy in 3 mana slot and a little too low on 1 mana slot department for me by the way.
Im just going to address everything in one post to save time.
Paladin Matchup: I believe the pally matchup comes down to who gets the stronger start. if you still have a decent board past turn 3 you probably winning. past that you basically just need to play an egg so that your board doesnt die to consecrate.
As for the heavy 3 drops I totally agree. I put more 3 drops in at a lack of 1 drops because their aren't any one drops worth playing. Any of the 1 mana 2/1 just aren't good in the deck without undertaker.
Imp-losion: I don't know how I feel about this card. I understand how good it can be but when i compare it to Dark iron it just doesn't seem good. dark iron is a 4/4 bodies that does 2 damage. Imp-losion is a 2 damage with a 2/2 body a 3 damage and a 3/3 bodies and 4 damage 4/4 bodies. The only case which imp is better is if it deals 4 damage and only slightly at that. for 2 more damage your 4/4 bodies gets spread across 4 minion which makes it so much worse. Also i don't consider it comboing with juggler to be worth it because i more than likely wont have both on turn 6 and juggler is an auto kill.
Shattered sun: I mainly put this card into the deck as filler. I didn't have a card that i thought would fit this style of the deck and such just throw in Cleric.
I think defender is fine at 2. I feel like i should mabye try it out at one. Its just the lack of taunt it the deck makes be want to play two.
Finally ill probably play 1 overwheling. gives the decka bit more reach and helps trigger the eggs. Any suggestions as for what to cut?
"Most people don't expect a BGH target in zoo" Yes and Adding in sea giant give them a BGH target. Also sea giant is one the short list of cards that do not belong in zoo imo.
As for bloodknight probably not. It really only hits shielded mini-bot. I mean it hits tirion too but i'd rather add an owl for that which my opinions are previous stated.
Also something i forgot to mention: if any one wants to help me test against the things like Pally, warrior, etc i'd appreciate it.
Thats mainly because hunter cant deal with big minions generally. Against most other classes its a bhg target. It gets discarded by doom guard and just generally doesnt do enough. As per implosion my opinion still stands but her's the thing about AoE though. Odds are you not just going to hit the imp with AoE.
in a Dr. Boom -> every one runs BGH meta it makes no sense to run giants. Especially since EVERYONE expects Sea Giants because everyone heard of Xixos Zoo which in my opinion wasn't really good anymore after the first few weeks. So I agree 100% on that point.
I do run one Imp-losion in my new Zoo deck because it's an average of 2.5 damage and 2.5 imps in one card but it's one of the fist cards I would cut because it's really not that great because it's expensive.
Bloodknight is something I consider when there are a lot of paladins and you run double Squire. I'm still a bit on the fence when it comes to squire with abusive it kills a mech warper "for free" which is nice.
I'm not a fan of Undertaker in Zoo at all. Yes it helps with board control but it will break your legs in match ups where you want to be aggressive. Druid, Freeze Mage, Warrior, you name it. Yea 2/1 minions are easy to remove but it usually costs them mana. If I coin out two leper gnomes and my enemy uses his turn to remove one, I think it's a great success.
I don't like dark bomb in Zoo because I honestly think 3 damage is just not enough. If it doesn't kill a 3/4 I don't want to play it. But I get it. I hate losing Doomguard to a soul fire.
How much do you enjoy playing the eggs? I personally don't want to play them anymore. I always thought of them as being too slow but they worked great with undertaker. But without Undertaker I don't like them at all.
Power Overwhelming though is a great idea. I like it now, while I never played it pre nerf.
Personal favorite at the moment is Micro Machine though.
Argent squire was a card I was highly considering even without the bloodknight. the reason i ened up not using it is because of how hard it loses to any 1 attack minion. Creeper, Acolyte, armorsmith. It eneds up just doing nothing.
I don't play undertaker after the nerf. it just doesn't fit in zoo any more. The reason i don't play 1 health 1 mana minions is because yes they do take a turn to remove but you don't want you minions to be removed. You want to be keep and establish a board.
Egg is mandatory in zoo. at worst its Anti-AoE and thats good enough in my mind.
How has micro-machine actually worked for you? im curious it seems like it would be bad for the same reason undertaker is bad.
Micro Machine just does great work. He grows so much faster without you having to bother playing a DR. He is great if you can protect him a little but at worst Micro Machine will eat removal. I saw everything from Fireball, BGH, SW:D. I would run at least one. I do run two and it wins me game after game. But I rarely face paladin. I love it. At worst it's a "scary 2/2".
Any suggestiosn as to what to remove for micro machine?
Maybe Scarlet, Cleric or even Defender since you quite rarely want to play the Micro Machine on T2.
I think you are missing the real power of Imp-losion. It's best use is immediately after your opponent wipes your board and still has a body on his side of the field. It will usually kill the monster on his side while giving you 3 bodies that you can buff on your next turn to re-establish board presence. It actually helps a LOT against any priest match-up since if they Archenai + Circle to kill your board you can simply Imp the 1 HP Archenai and immediately re-establish your board.
Zombie Chow is Zoo just doesn't work. Yes, you're going for board control, but you're still an aggressive deck. Giving you opponent 5 life is basically skipping one or two turns worth of damage. Buying your opponent turns is not what you want as the beatdown.
Imp-losion is a great tempo play and usually forces your opponent to board wipe or die, which is exactly what you want in Zoo. Great for softening or outright killing mid game bodies. It can be inconsistent, so i'd only run one copy. I'd cut out a Defender of Argus for one copy.
Shattered Sun Cleric is not that great since it's not really a 3-drop. If your opponent removes your first two plays, then playing a naked cleric will usually be your only choice, and it will feel terrible. Cutting it out leaves some tech slots open, so you could probably fit an Ironbeak Owl and Loatheb, which are both great in Zoo.
I'd also cut out the Mortal Coil, since it is a very low impact card and there's better stuff than it. You can put in a second Darkbomb, or even cut out both and put Soulfire back in.
The thing about chow is you play it turn 1. its generally dead by turn 3. Odds are your not missing any damage because you haven't deal any damage yet.
Imp-losion as previously stated needs more testing imo.
SSC is more or less just something im trying currently. Which is why im keeping it in for the time being. I will say that I think loatheb is an mediocre card in zoo.
Mortal coil is what im probably going to replace for power overwhelming.
Here's the list I came up with. I've got explanations for the card choices on the deck page.
No Owls or Imp-losions?
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