Zombie Chow is Zoo just doesn't work. Yes, you're going for board control, but you're still an aggressive deck. Giving you opponent 5 life is basically skipping one or two turns worth of damage. Buying your opponent turns is not what you want as the beatdown.
Ehh, you'll lose far more games by not grabbing board control then giving your opponent 5 life, and against control decks it helps stop their T1 Chow, especially since you have the tools to trade your chow into theirs and keep your alive.
In general if you drop Chow on T1 and he actually heals your opponent for 5 it's a pretty good sign that you have solid control of the board (that or you are just slamming the opponents face and using chow wrong). Heck, sometimes your chow doesn't even die before you finish the opponent off.
I'm not saying he should go into every deck, but I wouldn't say Chow doesn't work in Zoo and situations can definitely arise where your T1 Chow ends up snowballing into way more than 5 damage.
Are there games you will lose because you needed to race and you healed your opponent for 5? Sure. But there will also be games lost because you can't establish control because your 2/1 1 mana minions only amount to 2-4 damage because they summoned a 2/3 2 mana minion and killed of your 1 drop AND your 3/2 2 drop.
He's not an Undertaker, but if a deck needs a stronger 1 drop he IS an option....just don't run him in Face Hunter.
Is flame imp really that good? It seems like all it does is bolt me to the face and promptly die. Am I playing it wrong?
You'd rather have your Flame Imp die than your Knife Juggler. Flame Imp is super strong early, threatens a lot of damage, and gains you tempo either by trading super efficiently or by eating 2 mana removal that would otherwise go to your more important minions.
I'm a big fan of Enhance-o Mechano lately; I have cut a couple underperforming minions so I could add two. I've found that the tempo swing from boosting 2-3 minions (or the holy grail of boosting a board of 6 other minions) is huge. You can often clear their board with protected minions or get enough windfury to wreck the opponent for tons of damage.
I also love Imp-losion (it's removal AND board presence) and run two of those. That + Knife Juggler can often swing matches.
I'm still convinced Sea Giant is good in Zoo. It's amazing in combination with the Imp-losion and filling your board (while theirs could have several minions), and playing your Sea Giant and then wiping their board. It's especially nice if you get it after your opponent has already wasted their BGH thinking your zoo deck won't have a target for them. I only run one currently (never crafted a 2nd one), but I've been tempted to try and fit 2 of them in there...
Power Overwhelming: I still run two of these. It's basically 2 more Soulfire (I'm still running it, but finding I get stuck with 2 in hand too often, might replace with some other minions), only it has to be attached to a minion. But it can often be a finisher, and the potential of turning a 1/1 Imp with windfury (from Enhance-o) into a 5/5 finisher for 10 damage is great. It's also an easy way to turn your Nerubian Egg into a 4/6 wrecking ball that is revived at end of turn as a 4/4.
Personally I do not play flame imp in my zoo deck anymore. Most of the time all it does it deal 2x3 face damage. I'd rather use my hero power 3 more times. There are enough good 1 mana drops to replace it. Leper Gnome, Clockwork Gnome or Argent Squire.
Problem is that both Clockwork Gnome and Leper Gnome die for free to Hero Powers. Flame Imp requires for them to spend a card to kill it, whether it is removal or an early minion. Also, none of the replacements you mentioned are able to trade efficiently against 5+ mana minions.
I'm a big fan of Enhance-o Mechano lately; I have cut a couple underperforming minions so I could add two. I've found that the tempo swing from boosting 2-3 minions (or the holy grail of boosting a board of 6 other minions) is huge. You can often clear their board with protected minions or get enough windfury to wreck the opponent for tons of damage.
I also love Imp-losion (it's removal AND board presence) and run two of those. That + Knife Juggler can often swing matches.
I'm still convinced Sea Giant is good in Zoo. It's amazing in combination with the Imp-losion and filling your board (while theirs could have several minions), and playing your Sea Giant and then wiping their board. It's especially nice if you get it after your opponent has already wasted their BGH thinking your zoo deck won't have a target for them. I only run one currently (never crafted a 2nd one), but I've been tempted to try and fit 2 of them in there...
Power Overwhelming: I still run two of these. It's basically 2 more Soulfire (I'm still running it, but finding I get stuck with 2 in hand too often, might replace with some other minions), only it has to be attached to a minion. But it can often be a finisher, and the potential of turning a 1/1 Imp with windfury (from Enhance-o) into a 5/5 finisher for 10 damage is great. It's also an easy way to turn your Nerubian Egg into a 4/6 wrecking ball that is revived at end of turn as a 4/4.
how do you find place to put all those cards in your deck?
I've cut out things like Scarlet Crusader, Argent Squire, Clockwork Gnome, Undertaker, Dark Iron Dwarf and Zombie Chow. I'll post my deck sometime...did pretty well with Zoolock, got to rank 5 last season before burning out. It was too close to the end of the season to try and reach legend.
I've cut out things like Scarlet Crusader, Argent Squire, Clockwork Gnome, Undertaker, Dark Iron Dwarf and Zombie Chow. I'll post my deck sometime...did pretty well with Zoolock, got to rank 5 last season before burning out. It was too close to the end of the season to try and reach legend.
How are you fairing without Dark Iron Dwarf? I find it to be one of the key minions in the deck, since he is a solid body that allows for you to trade efficiently. If played on curve, it will pretty much cement the victory for you.
This is what I've been running...experimenting with possibly trying to fit in Anima Golem in there instead of a 2nd Doomguard. Could be a nice finisher along with Enhance-o Mechano keeping my minions alive.
I've cut out things like Scarlet Crusader, Argent Squire, Clockwork Gnome, Undertaker, Dark Iron Dwarf and Zombie Chow. I'll post my deck sometime...did pretty well with Zoolock, got to rank 5 last season before burning out. It was too close to the end of the season to try and reach legend.
How are you fairing without Dark Iron Dwarf? I find it to be one of the key minions in the deck, since he is a solid body that allows for you to trade efficiently. If played on curve, it will pretty much cement the victory for you.
I've found that using PO on a small deathrattle minion (preferably Nerubian Egg) will help maintain board. The 4/4 Nerubian fills the gap nicely. Also, Enhance-o helps get extra value out of your whole board and keeps the pressure going. I may try to fit 1x Dark Iron back in instead of my 2nd Soulfire. Something to definitely consider.
I apologize if this is a bad question to ask but is there a rough conversion for dust to dollars? With no secondary market like MTG has it's really hard to guesstimate how much of a financial commitment the game needs to get up to speed.
I apologize if this is a bad question to ask but is there a rough conversion for dust to dollars? With no secondary market like MTG has it's really hard to guesstimate how much of a financial commitment the game needs to get up to speed.
Well, let's break it down.
The price of a two packs (minimum amount you can buy with actual money) is $2.99. This means 1 pack costs about $1.495. On average, a pack contains 1 rare and 4 commons. This is a total of 40 dust. So you're getting 60 packs (which is the best deal in terms of value per pack), you're getting an average of 40 dust at $0.233. So in total, you get an average of 2400 dust (6 epic cards) for $69.99.
This is, of course, assuming that you disenchant everything you get from those 60 packs. You might luck out and pull stuff you were looking for so that you won't have to craft it later on.
Dark Iron Dwarf only gets his damage if you have a minion on the board, and that damage has to go to the same target as your minion. Imp-losion can target something else if you want, and doesn't need a minion at all.
Dark Iron Dwarf puts all its 4/4 power into one body. Imp-losion scatters it into several. Imp-losion also has some Demon synergy that Dark Iron Dwarf doesn't, although admittedly this is usually situational.
So, I consider Imp-losion to generally be a more flexible card, but not necessarily a better one - they both have their points.
I apologize if this is a bad question to ask but is there a rough conversion for dust to dollars? With no secondary market like MTG has it's really hard to guesstimate how much of a financial commitment the game needs to get up to speed.
Well, let's break it down.
The price of a two packs (minimum amount you can buy with actual money) is $2.99. This means 1 pack costs about $1.495. On average, a pack contains 1 rare and 4 commons. This is a total of 40 dust. So you're getting 60 packs (which is the best deal in terms of value per pack), you're getting an average of 40 dust at $0.233. So in total, you get an average of 2400 dust (6 epic cards) for $69.99.
This is, of course, assuming that you disenchant everything you get from those 60 packs. You might luck out and pull stuff you were looking for so that you won't have to craft it later on.
Thank you, this is what I was trying to back into!
I apologize if this is a bad question to ask but is there a rough conversion for dust to dollars? With no secondary market like MTG has it's really hard to guesstimate how much of a financial commitment the game needs to get up to speed.
Well, let's break it down.
The price of a two packs (minimum amount you can buy with actual money) is $2.99. This means 1 pack costs about $1.495. On average, a pack contains 1 rare and 4 commons. This is a total of 40 dust. So you're getting 60 packs (which is the best deal in terms of value per pack), you're getting an average of 40 dust at $0.233. So in total, you get an average of 2400 dust (6 epic cards) for $69.99.
This is, of course, assuming that you disenchant everything you get from those 60 packs. You might luck out and pull stuff you were looking for so that you won't have to craft it later on.
Thank you, this is what I was trying to back into!
except that thats the worst case scenario. Every pack contains atleast 1 rare and 4 commons which is 40 dust ( so you get minimum of 2400 dust without legendaries / epics. ~3 legendaries in 60 packs = 1185 dust if they take the place of common ( 1/20 packs ), epics are 1/5 so in average you get 12 epics another 1200 dust. So without golden cards you get an average of ~4800 dust in 60 packs if you disenchant everything.
One more NOOB economics question - given there is no secondary market to trade amongst players, does it make sense to keep any non-Warlock, non-neutral cards if I have no intention of branching out into other classes? In other words, since you are all much more seasoned than I am, how likely is it a player will stick to one class for an extended period or how foolish would it be to lock into a single class? I see this as similar to locking into a single color in MTG.
Foolish to de all other cards. The meta shifts in a way that at some points of a season (or throughout an entire season) some classes/builds are absolutely dead. Generally the better your build is - the more people end up running it which in turn makes more people delibrately set out to counter it.
I would continue to run the lock - but keep your options open
Well I personally did DE most of the cards I always got ( Used only shaman for like +8 months). Now I'm starting to branch to other classes and wish i hadn't DE'd some of those cards that I thought I would never use. Warlock is a nice class since it can run multiple decks like demonlock handlock and zoolock so you might not get "bored" to it. My advice is that if you despise some decktype ( like I do aggro) don't keep those cards. I personally have 0 hunter cards and just now starting to get my paladin, warrior, warlock and rogue collection going.
*edit* also to add that while I played couple shamans from launch to gvg, now i have created multiple druid decks, couple rouge decks and single priest, warrior, warlock and enjoy the diversity. So if you even think that you might use that card in future it might be worth it to keep it so that you don't have to craft it later.
Ehh, you'll lose far more games by not grabbing board control then giving your opponent 5 life, and against control decks it helps stop their T1 Chow, especially since you have the tools to trade your chow into theirs and keep your alive.
In general if you drop Chow on T1 and he actually heals your opponent for 5 it's a pretty good sign that you have solid control of the board (that or you are just slamming the opponents face and using chow wrong). Heck, sometimes your chow doesn't even die before you finish the opponent off.
I'm not saying he should go into every deck, but I wouldn't say Chow doesn't work in Zoo and situations can definitely arise where your T1 Chow ends up snowballing into way more than 5 damage.
Are there games you will lose because you needed to race and you healed your opponent for 5? Sure. But there will also be games lost because you can't establish control because your 2/1 1 mana minions only amount to 2-4 damage because they summoned a 2/3 2 mana minion and killed of your 1 drop AND your 3/2 2 drop.
He's not an Undertaker, but if a deck needs a stronger 1 drop he IS an option....just don't run him in Face Hunter.
Is flame imp really that good? It seems like all it does is bolt me to the face and promptly die. Am I playing it wrong?
You'd rather have your Flame Imp die than your Knife Juggler. Flame Imp is super strong early, threatens a lot of damage, and gains you tempo either by trading super efficiently or by eating 2 mana removal that would otherwise go to your more important minions.
Thank you for the explanation, still very new to the game.
I'm a big fan of Enhance-o Mechano lately; I have cut a couple underperforming minions so I could add two. I've found that the tempo swing from boosting 2-3 minions (or the holy grail of boosting a board of 6 other minions) is huge. You can often clear their board with protected minions or get enough windfury to wreck the opponent for tons of damage.
I also love Imp-losion (it's removal AND board presence) and run two of those. That + Knife Juggler can often swing matches.
I'm still convinced Sea Giant is good in Zoo. It's amazing in combination with the Imp-losion and filling your board (while theirs could have several minions), and playing your Sea Giant and then wiping their board. It's especially nice if you get it after your opponent has already wasted their BGH thinking your zoo deck won't have a target for them. I only run one currently (never crafted a 2nd one), but I've been tempted to try and fit 2 of them in there...
Power Overwhelming: I still run two of these. It's basically 2 more Soulfire (I'm still running it, but finding I get stuck with 2 in hand too often, might replace with some other minions), only it has to be attached to a minion. But it can often be a finisher, and the potential of turning a 1/1 Imp with windfury (from Enhance-o) into a 5/5 finisher for 10 damage is great. It's also an easy way to turn your Nerubian Egg into a 4/6 wrecking ball that is revived at end of turn as a 4/4.
Problem is that both Clockwork Gnome and Leper Gnome die for free to Hero Powers. Flame Imp requires for them to spend a card to kill it, whether it is removal or an early minion. Also, none of the replacements you mentioned are able to trade efficiently against 5+ mana minions.
I've cut out things like Scarlet Crusader, Argent Squire, Clockwork Gnome, Undertaker, Dark Iron Dwarf and Zombie Chow. I'll post my deck sometime...did pretty well with Zoolock, got to rank 5 last season before burning out. It was too close to the end of the season to try and reach legend.
How are you fairing without Dark Iron Dwarf? I find it to be one of the key minions in the deck, since he is a solid body that allows for you to trade efficiently. If played on curve, it will pretty much cement the victory for you.
This is what I've been running...experimenting with possibly trying to fit in Anima Golem in there instead of a 2nd Doomguard. Could be a nice finisher along with Enhance-o Mechano keeping my minions alive.
I've found that using PO on a small deathrattle minion (preferably Nerubian Egg) will help maintain board. The 4/4 Nerubian fills the gap nicely. Also, Enhance-o helps get extra value out of your whole board and keeps the pressure going. I may try to fit 1x Dark Iron back in instead of my 2nd Soulfire. Something to definitely consider.
This is my "MecHob Zoo"
uM0p3p!sddn
Also check out my new inspire majordomo mage! http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/114619-mystery-mage-inspire-rangnaros-freeze
I apologize if this is a bad question to ask but is there a rough conversion for dust to dollars? With no secondary market like MTG has it's really hard to guesstimate how much of a financial commitment the game needs to get up to speed.
Well, let's break it down.
The price of a two packs (minimum amount you can buy with actual money) is $2.99. This means 1 pack costs about $1.495.
On average, a pack contains 1 rare and 4 commons. This is a total of 40 dust.
So you're getting 60 packs (which is the best deal in terms of value per pack), you're getting an average of 40 dust at $0.233. So in total, you get an average of 2400 dust (6 epic cards) for $69.99.
This is, of course, assuming that you disenchant everything you get from those 60 packs. You might luck out and pull stuff you were looking for so that you won't have to craft it later on.
Dark Iron Dwarf only gets his damage if you have a minion on the board, and that damage has to go to the same target as your minion. Imp-losion can target something else if you want, and doesn't need a minion at all.
Dark Iron Dwarf puts all its 4/4 power into one body. Imp-losion scatters it into several. Imp-losion also has some Demon synergy that Dark Iron Dwarf doesn't, although admittedly this is usually situational.
So, I consider Imp-losion to generally be a more flexible card, but not necessarily a better one - they both have their points.
Thank you, this is what I was trying to back into!
except that thats the worst case scenario. Every pack contains atleast 1 rare and 4 commons which is 40 dust ( so you get minimum of 2400 dust without legendaries / epics. ~3 legendaries in 60 packs = 1185 dust if they take the place of common ( 1/20 packs ), epics are 1/5 so in average you get 12 epics another 1200 dust. So without golden cards you get an average of ~4800 dust in 60 packs if you disenchant everything.
Surprise!
One more NOOB economics question - given there is no secondary market to trade amongst players, does it make sense to keep any non-Warlock, non-neutral cards if I have no intention of branching out into other classes? In other words, since you are all much more seasoned than I am, how likely is it a player will stick to one class for an extended period or how foolish would it be to lock into a single class? I see this as similar to locking into a single color in MTG.
Foolish to de all other cards. The meta shifts in a way that at some points of a season (or throughout an entire season) some classes/builds are absolutely dead. Generally the better your build is - the more people end up running it which in turn makes more people delibrately set out to counter it.
I would continue to run the lock - but keep your options open
December rank 74 legend :)
Well I personally did DE most of the cards I always got ( Used only shaman for like +8 months). Now I'm starting to branch to other classes and wish i hadn't DE'd some of those cards that I thought I would never use. Warlock is a nice class since it can run multiple decks like demonlock handlock and zoolock so you might not get "bored" to it. My advice is that if you despise some decktype ( like I do aggro) don't keep those cards. I personally have 0 hunter cards and just now starting to get my paladin, warrior, warlock and rogue collection going.
*edit* also to add that while I played couple shamans from launch to gvg, now i have created multiple druid decks, couple rouge decks and single priest, warrior, warlock and enjoy the diversity. So if you even think that you might use that card in future it might be worth it to keep it so that you don't have to craft it later.
Surprise!
I still play UTs in my deck. They still get removed right away and unlike Zombie Chows, it doesnt heal opponent.
UTs are still scary to people since it left an impression on them b4 nerf.
I run the same deck with 2 Implosions, now.