With the addition of Raven Idol maybe Wild Pyromancer becomes more reliable to Mill Druid? I mean, it's a potential 2-spell combo to wipe the board.
Leaving the Pyromancer synergy aside, what do you guys think of Raven Idol itself? It's a potential 3rd crucial spell: Swipe or Starfall for board clearing, Naturalize or Mulch for milling and hard removal, Healing Touch for extra life gain and so on.
As far as the spell based list goes, it's almost assured for it to give a decent spell.
wao i like this thread... i would like to play druid at lower rank... but its kind diffifcult to win... Mill druid can win easy vs Entomb priest lol its so fun...
He plays both Deathlord AND Dancing Swords. Seems cool, although I still have my concerns about playing Swords.. He also burn a his Ancient of Lore - which is a card I don't see so often in the Mill archetype as well. It'd be nice to see his list!
He plays both Deathlord AND Dancing Swords. Seems cool, although I still have my concerns about playing Swords.. He also burn a his Ancient of Lore - which is a card I don't see so often in the Mill archetype as well. It'd be nice to see his list!
He plays both Deathlord AND Dancing Swords. Seems cool, although I still have my concerns about playing Swords.. He also burn a his Ancient of Lore - which is a card I don't see so often in the Mill archetype as well. It'd be nice to see his list!
- 1x Explosive Sheep - 1x Tree of Life - 1x Poison Seeds
+ 1x Doomsayer + 1x Mind Control Tech + 1x Dancing Swords
- Doomsayer is a much more flexible 2 drop as Explosive Sheep, as it works as pseudo taunt against aggro and a pseudo time-walk against control and/or midrange. With proper timing you won't be sad by dropping it on the board no matter which match up, as every turn you can drag is pure gold for Mill/Fatigue. It also wrecks Tempo Mage's Mirror Entity plays, rising even if slightly our chances against the archetype.
- Poison Seeds only shines on its own against Midrange and Control when it can be valuable without the Starfall combo, and even then you'll hardly need a second copy. Against aggro it just sucks. You won't be happy by sitting with the two copies in your hand no matter at which stage of the game/match up. By reducing another 2-of we make Reno Jackson more reliable, which justifies...
- ... cutting Tree of Life. As long as we can assure our Reno's activation he's way better than the 9 mana spell, and just as having 2x copies of Poison Seeds you'll be sad every time you sit with the two cards in your opening hand. With the 2 slots created I decided to enforce my board control while also adding a bit more of millage with...
-... 1x Mind Control Tech: once Midrange decks get one or two cards burnt by a Brann + Oracle combo or something alike they tend to extend their board to prevent more burning from happen, in the late game we can solve this with a Poison Seeds + Starfall combo, but MCT works as a decent mid-game answer while ALSO combo'ing with Brann Bronzebeard.
- 1x Dancing Swords: the biggest body on the curve which may prove to be decent at board control, since it most of times may trade with a 3-drop and another 1~2-drop. It can be used as replacement for people who doesn't have King Mulkla as well. Playing on curve will most likely assure that his DR will be triggered when we want, unless opponent lose tempo to deal with it which isn't bad neither.
Besides the usual staples and tech choices from the archetype his list has stronger draw tools with 1x Ancient of Lore, 1x Bloodmage Thalnos and 1x Azure Drake (which combos with Brann). It may seem a bit out of the gameplan dedicating so much slots for drawing and cycling cards while trying to make your opponent reach fatigue before you, but digging for the right answers for the right match up is very important for the archetype and reassures that you'll filter the deck for Reno's sake. Thalnos for all purposes works as 2nd Pyromancer, but even better.
The most inovative addition though was Elise Starseeker, which is common in heavy control/fatigue lists, but not so much in actua Mill archetype. After reaching fatigue or late game, when some of the tech cards will stay dead in your hand for all eternity, the Golden Monkey may turn the tides completely. Having a decent number of cycle cards on top of the Mill package which includes mutual draw you may even find him in earlier stages of the game - although it goes a different way than the usual gameplan. Remember that replacing your deck with random legendaries may mess up your Reno plays.
Besides the usual staples and tech choices from the archetype his list has stronger draw tools with 1x Ancient of Lore, 1x Bloodmage Thalnos and 1x Azure Drake (which combos with Brann). It may seem a bit out of the gameplan dedicating so much slots for drawing and cycling cards while trying to make your opponent reach fatigue before you, but digging for the right answers for the right match up is very important for the archetype and reassures that you'll filter the deck for Reno's sake. Thalnos for all purposes works as 2nd Pyromancer, but even better.
The most inovative addition though was Elise Starseeker, which is common in heavy control/fatigue lists, but not so much in actua Mill archetype. After reaching fatigue or late game, when some of the tech cards will stay dead in your hand for all eternity, the Golden Monkey may turn the tides completely. Having a decent number of cycle cards on top of the Mill package which includes mutual draw you may even find him in earlier stages of the game - although it goes a different way than the usual gameplan. Remember that replacing your deck with random legendaries may mess up your Reno plays.
So, any impressions about this list?
well it seem decent, problem with mill druid its just good on high rank at the moment, on lower rank you can get reck very badly.
in the other hand rogue has very good ways to be agressiv and passive.
The deck is working really well. Tree Of Life is a good Reno backup and punishes Priest's with Northshires. Single Brewmaster is really excellent tech for Healbot, Coldlight, Deathlord, Reno. Raven Idol is one of the best cards here: more Naturalize's, Swipes, etc. The new Sheep+Seeds clear is amazing and gives flexibility to use Starfall as single target removal or as stand alone AOE on weaker boards. The deck crushes Elise decks, Control Priest, Handlock, etc, and holds it's own against aggro.
I'm also tweaking a giant variant that runs 6 giants, Lumberers, etc. It plays more like handlock where you can drop a giant on turn 4, 5, and 6 potentially. Not as viable but a lot of fun.
Since they fixed the Sheep+Seeds interaction I was thinking about trying a list with more 2-of's again although I don't know wether I'd run Reno in such a list myself - it feels like he's only playable once you reach fatigue already.
Deathwing looks like a nice tech, although even in the later stages of the game I usually have 3~4 cards in hand. Since I don't have him I guess it could be replaced by some Ooze to answer weapon classes - how good is Deathwing to you? I have some dust to spend, perhaps he could be a nice addition.
Also, no Grove Tender? I know his mill potential is low, but lacking simetrical card draw may put opponent too much ahead and you can always go the ramp route against aggro decks, so on..
Give us some insight of your list! Thanks for posting!
Deathwing is basically there as a last ditch board clear, the body is a bonus. Many, many games against control come down to fatigue. Deathwing serves as yet another clear after you have probably cleared their board 2-3 times already... at this point they will often overcommit since they think you are out of clears.
I wasn't a fan of running Reno myself, but he has won a lot of games. Having Brann+Coldlight go off can speed the game up quite a bit, and it's great to have him around since you will hit fatigue in many games and if you don't hit fatigue you usually win anyway. Bouncing Reno with Brewmaster is incredibly powerful, too.
Having 2x Swords, 2x Deathlord and 2x Naturalize(possibly more with Raven Idol) sets up each match with you 8+ ahead in fatigue. Most decks draw maybe 4 cards or more, so often you are 12+ cards ahead by the time they hit the end of their deck. This is the win condition... it's basically impossible to out-armor or heal that kind of repetitive damage. This makes even fatigue warriors a smooth matchup, I have beaten them with 75 total life, because high fatigue just dissolves that armor.
Grove Tender is a card I never found much use for in Mill Druid... I would like to test it, and it does have synergy with Brann, but it has always just seemed too low impact. I use one Coldlight and save one to use with Brann and that's usually enough draw. The deck doesn't have room for everything and I feel like Coldlight just shines in the slot.
Force Of Nature I feel is better than Starfire in every way... having 6 damage and being able to split it up is a huge deal and it often clears medium boards. Can also be comboed with Poison Seeds on turn 10.
Justicar is really important because it gives us a really insane hero power... armor up plus 2 attack, and it synergizes with poison seeds for chipping those treeants away.
Right now I'm running one Mulch and one BGH. Mulch has backfired a few times(Gruul, Sea Giant) but never lost a game for me.
Coldlight Oracle, besides being a mill staple, is a huge bonus in the Anyfin Paladin matchup. Having those two murlocs die has diluted many of their combos.
WIld Pyro is something I used for a while... but in the end I cut it for the brewmaster which all in all I find a more impactful tech card.
Malorne is something I struggle with... if there is any deck it's made for it's this one. But especially against priest, just having him in the deck is a huge liability for Thoughtsteal, Mind Control or Entomb. Pretty much the only way to win if they have Malorne is to take the 9 damage per turn and hope the fatigue is high enough to kill them first.
I would like to make room for Loatheb and Thaurissan(due to often huge hand sizes) but it's very hard to make cuts.
Anyways I really like this deck, it's very comfortable to play against a lot of scary decks. I'm always open to trying different cards, so if anyone has any suggestions let me know!
Unfortunately Grove Tender isn't synergic with Brann. But I'd give it a try in the place of Dancing Swords possibly - as much as we want our opponents to be ahead in the fatigue, we need the draw ourselves too.
I used Thaurissan before, but his effect only matters when hitting a Tree of Life or a Starfall + Seeds combo, otherwise it's very 'meh'. Specially now that we can play the board clear quite faster using Sheep + Seeds instead anyway.
Running 2x Raven Idol I'd give a second thought on Wild Pyromancer: picking cheap spells you can clear early boards without spending Starfalls or Sheeps which combo better with Seeds. But I also agree that against early aggression Deathlord is simply better most of times.
Speaking about Deathlord, I was running a Healing Touch in previous lists due to their synergy. You can always heal face when needed, but healing Deathlord all the way back to 8 health after trading with 3 or more minions can be devastating for aggro decks.
Overall it seems like your list is more spell oriented (noticed you don't run Keeper of the Grove), how is it working for you against Midrange~ish archetypes? Patron Warrior, Mid Hunter and Combo Druid should be a struggle am I wrong?
Either way I'm definitely trying your list later! Just switching Deathwing with a Ooze for now, but I'm considering craft him as a single legendary is no big deal right now for me to make.
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With the addition of Raven Idol maybe Wild Pyromancer becomes more reliable to Mill Druid? I mean, it's a potential 2-spell combo to wipe the board.
Leaving the Pyromancer synergy aside, what do you guys think of Raven Idol itself? It's a potential 3rd crucial spell: Swipe or Starfall for board clearing, Naturalize or Mulch for milling and hard removal, Healing Touch for extra life gain and so on.
As far as the spell based list goes, it's almost assured for it to give a decent spell.
So, Raven Idol is coming soon. Anybody else is going to test it in Druid Mill?
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If it wasn't stated by the developers that Discovery won't bring repeated options I wouldn't be surprised thanks to my RNG, lol xD
As a fun gimmick wincon it may do the cut for Mill lists.
wao i like this thread... i would like to play druid at lower rank... but its kind diffifcult to win... Mill druid can win easy vs Entomb priest lol its so fun...
this guy plays mill drud at rank 5!!!
He plays both Deathlord AND Dancing Swords. Seems cool, although I still have my concerns about playing Swords.. He also burn a his Ancient of Lore - which is a card I don't see so often in the Mill archetype as well. It'd be nice to see his list!
Thanks man! And he burns his own Ancient of Lore at some point in the video!
Mill decks are gimmicky crap. Blizzard has stated they are not consistent with desired HS gameplay but they keep enabling the decks - not too bright.
Today's update on this list:
- 1x Explosive Sheep
- 1x Tree of Life
- 1x Poison Seeds
+ 1x Doomsayer
+ 1x Mind Control Tech
+ 1x Dancing Swords
- Doomsayer is a much more flexible 2 drop as Explosive Sheep, as it works as pseudo taunt against aggro and a pseudo time-walk against control and/or midrange. With proper timing you won't be sad by dropping it on the board no matter which match up, as every turn you can drag is pure gold for Mill/Fatigue. It also wrecks Tempo Mage's Mirror Entity plays, rising even if slightly our chances against the archetype.
- Poison Seeds only shines on its own against Midrange and Control when it can be valuable without the Starfall combo, and even then you'll hardly need a second copy. Against aggro it just sucks. You won't be happy by sitting with the two copies in your hand no matter at which stage of the game/match up. By reducing another 2-of we make Reno Jackson more reliable, which justifies...
- ... cutting Tree of Life. As long as we can assure our Reno's activation he's way better than the 9 mana spell, and just as having 2x copies of Poison Seeds you'll be sad every time you sit with the two cards in your opening hand. With the 2 slots created I decided to enforce my board control while also adding a bit more of millage with...
-... 1x Mind Control Tech: once Midrange decks get one or two cards burnt by a Brann + Oracle combo or something alike they tend to extend their board to prevent more burning from happen, in the late game we can solve this with a Poison Seeds + Starfall combo, but MCT works as a decent mid-game answer while ALSO combo'ing with Brann Bronzebeard.
- 1x Dancing Swords: the biggest body on the curve which may prove to be decent at board control, since it most of times may trade with a 3-drop and another 1~2-drop. It can be used as replacement for people who doesn't have King Mulkla as well. Playing on curve will most likely assure that his DR will be triggered when we want, unless opponent lose tempo to deal with it which isn't bad neither.
Updating the thread with a new list which got very popular these days in the community:
Besides the usual staples and tech choices from the archetype his list has stronger draw tools with 1x Ancient of Lore, 1x Bloodmage Thalnos and 1x Azure Drake (which combos with Brann). It may seem a bit out of the gameplan dedicating so much slots for drawing and cycling cards while trying to make your opponent reach fatigue before you, but digging for the right answers for the right match up is very important for the archetype and reassures that you'll filter the deck for Reno's sake. Thalnos for all purposes works as 2nd Pyromancer, but even better.
The most inovative addition though was Elise Starseeker, which is common in heavy control/fatigue lists, but not so much in actua Mill archetype. After reaching fatigue or late game, when some of the tech cards will stay dead in your hand for all eternity, the Golden Monkey may turn the tides completely. Having a decent number of cycle cards on top of the Mill package which includes mutual draw you may even find him in earlier stages of the game - although it goes a different way than the usual gameplan. Remember that replacing your deck with random legendaries may mess up your Reno plays.
So, any impressions about this list?
Nice man! After some testing post here your impressions and results!
This is what I'm currently using:
The deck is working really well. Tree Of Life is a good Reno backup and punishes Priest's with Northshires. Single Brewmaster is really excellent tech for Healbot, Coldlight, Deathlord, Reno. Raven Idol is one of the best cards here: more Naturalize's, Swipes, etc. The new Sheep+Seeds clear is amazing and gives flexibility to use Starfall as single target removal or as stand alone AOE on weaker boards. The deck crushes Elise decks, Control Priest, Handlock, etc, and holds it's own against aggro.
I'm also tweaking a giant variant that runs 6 giants, Lumberers, etc. It plays more like handlock where you can drop a giant on turn 4, 5, and 6 potentially. Not as viable but a lot of fun.
Excellent list, dude!
Since they fixed the Sheep+Seeds interaction I was thinking about trying a list with more 2-of's again although I don't know wether I'd run Reno in such a list myself - it feels like he's only playable once you reach fatigue already.
Deathwing looks like a nice tech, although even in the later stages of the game I usually have 3~4 cards in hand. Since I don't have him I guess it could be replaced by some Ooze to answer weapon classes - how good is Deathwing to you? I have some dust to spend, perhaps he could be a nice addition.
Also, no Grove Tender? I know his mill potential is low, but lacking simetrical card draw may put opponent too much ahead and you can always go the ramp route against aggro decks, so on..
Give us some insight of your list! Thanks for posting!
Deathwing is basically there as a last ditch board clear, the body is a bonus. Many, many games against control come down to fatigue. Deathwing serves as yet another clear after you have probably cleared their board 2-3 times already... at this point they will often overcommit since they think you are out of clears.
I wasn't a fan of running Reno myself, but he has won a lot of games. Having Brann+Coldlight go off can speed the game up quite a bit, and it's great to have him around since you will hit fatigue in many games and if you don't hit fatigue you usually win anyway. Bouncing Reno with Brewmaster is incredibly powerful, too.
Having 2x Swords, 2x Deathlord and 2x Naturalize(possibly more with Raven Idol) sets up each match with you 8+ ahead in fatigue. Most decks draw maybe 4 cards or more, so often you are 12+ cards ahead by the time they hit the end of their deck. This is the win condition... it's basically impossible to out-armor or heal that kind of repetitive damage. This makes even fatigue warriors a smooth matchup, I have beaten them with 75 total life, because high fatigue just dissolves that armor.
Grove Tender is a card I never found much use for in Mill Druid... I would like to test it, and it does have synergy with Brann, but it has always just seemed too low impact. I use one Coldlight and save one to use with Brann and that's usually enough draw. The deck doesn't have room for everything and I feel like Coldlight just shines in the slot.
Force Of Nature I feel is better than Starfire in every way... having 6 damage and being able to split it up is a huge deal and it often clears medium boards. Can also be comboed with Poison Seeds on turn 10.
Justicar is really important because it gives us a really insane hero power... armor up plus 2 attack, and it synergizes with poison seeds for chipping those treeants away.
Right now I'm running one Mulch and one BGH. Mulch has backfired a few times(Gruul, Sea Giant) but never lost a game for me.
Coldlight Oracle, besides being a mill staple, is a huge bonus in the Anyfin Paladin matchup. Having those two murlocs die has diluted many of their combos.
WIld Pyro is something I used for a while... but in the end I cut it for the brewmaster which all in all I find a more impactful tech card.
Malorne is something I struggle with... if there is any deck it's made for it's this one. But especially against priest, just having him in the deck is a huge liability for Thoughtsteal, Mind Control or Entomb. Pretty much the only way to win if they have Malorne is to take the 9 damage per turn and hope the fatigue is high enough to kill them first.
I would like to make room for Loatheb and Thaurissan(due to often huge hand sizes) but it's very hard to make cuts.
Anyways I really like this deck, it's very comfortable to play against a lot of scary decks. I'm always open to trying different cards, so if anyone has any suggestions let me know!
Unfortunately Grove Tender isn't synergic with Brann. But I'd give it a try in the place of Dancing Swords possibly - as much as we want our opponents to be ahead in the fatigue, we need the draw ourselves too.
I used Thaurissan before, but his effect only matters when hitting a Tree of Life or a Starfall + Seeds combo, otherwise it's very 'meh'. Specially now that we can play the board clear quite faster using Sheep + Seeds instead anyway.
Running 2x Raven Idol I'd give a second thought on Wild Pyromancer: picking cheap spells you can clear early boards without spending Starfalls or Sheeps which combo better with Seeds. But I also agree that against early aggression Deathlord is simply better most of times.
Speaking about Deathlord, I was running a Healing Touch in previous lists due to their synergy. You can always heal face when needed, but healing Deathlord all the way back to 8 health after trading with 3 or more minions can be devastating for aggro decks.
Overall it seems like your list is more spell oriented (noticed you don't run Keeper of the Grove), how is it working for you against Midrange~ish archetypes? Patron Warrior, Mid Hunter and Combo Druid should be a struggle am I wrong?
Either way I'm definitely trying your list later! Just switching Deathwing with a Ooze for now, but I'm considering craft him as a single legendary is no big deal right now for me to make.