Thief Rogue w/ Lilian Voss and Valeera the Hollow
- Last updated Aug 2, 2017 (Quest Rogue Nerf)
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Wild
- 17 Minions
- 10 Spells
- 2 Weapons
- Deck Type: Theorycraft
- Deck Archetype: Unknown
- Crafting Cost: 10700
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 8/2/2017 (Quest Rogue Nerf)
- seksireturns
- Registered User
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- 7
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Battle Tag:
Seksi#1158
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Region:
US
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Total Deck Rating
578
LATEST UPDATE:
-1x Sap, -1x Counterfeit Coin, -1x Edwin VanCleef
+2x Swashburglar, +1x Patches the Pirate
This should make the deck more consistent and a lot better against Aggro. There are plenty of plays on Turn 1, 2, and 3. Swashburglar adds another early presence and further synergy with Ethereal Peddler and Lilian Voss, and we didn't have to cut Hallucination either. Patches will thin your deck and provide instant board on Turn 1 often. As good as Sap is against cards like Spikeridged Steed or early threats like Frothing Berserker, we have other removal options and it's not as effective against Aggro or "flood the board" decks. Edwin VanCleef is good but is somewhat counter intuitive to the deck's playstyle. You'll want to save your cheap spells (primarily Razorpetals) for Lilian Voss. Once Edwin was cut, Counterfeit Coin is the next reasonable cut. There are still plenty of spells to trade, get value with Gadgetzan Auctioneer, and reduce Arcane Giant. I believe this to be the best version yet. Thoughts?
Valeera the Hollow: One of the coolest and most interesting Death Knight cards. I think it will fit great it this deck because every single card we would want to get another copy of is 5 mana or less and even better... discounted Arcane Giants. It provides a one turn Ice Block for the most part and gives 5 armor also. It is pretty slow but this deck should usually play into the later turns I would think. The effectiveness of this card is to be seen but I have a good feeling about it.
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Accumulate cards from the other class and reduce their cost with Ethereal Peddler. Cheap spells to replace with Lilian Voss including up to 6x Razorpetal.
Every game will be unique as you'll have to incorporate the various cards you'll steal from the opposing class. There are many different drawing engines, an early game package to compete with Aggro, and late game cards that will challenge Control. In general, you'll want to save your Razorpetals for Lilian Voss, plus any unfavorable spells you get drawing cards from the opposing class. You'll want to use your core spells like Backstab, Hallucination, Eviscerate and Fan of Knives.
The new Rogue weapon Shadowblade, is just what Rogue needed. It should help clean the board on Turn 3 and preserve your health.
Contest early by sparingly using your spells and playing your 1, 2 and 3 drops. Replace your cheap spells with better spells from your opponent class and then reduce them with Ethereal Peddler. Finish the game with 2x Vilespine Slayer, 2x Arcane Giant, and Valeera the Hollow.
I know one thing for sure is that the deck will be a lot of fun to play, but I also think it will be surprisingly effective. Any thoughts or ideas are welcomed.
I like the idea of Vanish to clear the board after your Stealthed turn. It can set up Giants like you mentioned, however Vanish is a 6-mana card so the copy of it will be wasted. Ideally you'd want Arcane Giants in your hand that are discounted to atleast 4 to play on the same turn as Vanish... but again you wouldn't get a copy of the Arcane Giant. It's tough to say how effective Vanish would be until we can test it.
If Vanish is viable, which card(s) would you remove to make way for it? I would think Fan of Knives (one copy) is probably the only card that makes sense to remove, if needed. Depending on the Meta though, (and with the inclusion of Bloodmage Thalnos) FoK could be really good and also draw you a card.
You get a copy of the MOST RECENT card you played. So if you vanish and then play arcane giants, then the shadow card will become an arcane giant because that was the most recent card you played. I don't know if you knew this already or not but your reply makes me believe you don't so my apologies if this is already known to you.
Hi GuraySoul, are you sure of that? The text reads: "During your turn, add a "Shadow Reflection" to your hand. Each time you play a card, transform this into a copy of it.
So I take it that you'll receive a Shadow Reflection at the beginning of your turn. Now that it's in your hand, it will transform and give you a copy of the first card you play.
In that case, it would be Vanish. Is that not correct?
Shifter Zerus has similar mechanics except it only transforms each turn it is in your hand where as the shadow reflection transforms after each card played. If you have shifter zerus in your hand you will notice that it has a blue aura at all times no matter what minion it transforms into. Now, I'm no expert but this indicates that card is still using shifter zerus' effect "Each turn this card is in your hand, transform it into a random minion" until you actually play the card. When you watch the reveal video you will notice that when the shadow reflection transforms into the arcane giant and un'goro pack it maintains its red aura which means that until you actually play the card, the effect of shadow reflection remains active. When you vanish, it will become vanish but is still able to transform into another card i.e. an arcane giant or whatever you decide to play.
TL;DR: Shadow Reflection shares mechanics with Shifter Zerus and will always transform into another card while it is in your hand until you play it.
Sorry for the wordy explanation but I hope understand what i was trying to convey.
I understand what you are trying to convey, but you will only get [1] Shadow Reflection at the beginning of each turn. So that Shadow Reflection would turn into a copy of the first card you played that turn, right?
If that wasn't the case, couldn't you just Vanish every single turn?
Now i understand the confusion. You will get only 1 shadow reflection per turn and can only have 1 shadow reflection each turn. When your turn ends, the shadow reflection will leave your hand. During the the turn it is in hand your, however, it will constantly turn into whatever card you play prior to the shadow reflection. Example: You start your turn and receive a shadow reflection. You play vanish and the shadow reflection is now a vanish. You play an arcane giant and now the shadow reflection that was once a vanish now becomes an arcane giant. If you do not play the arcane giant from the shadow reflection, then when your turn ends the shadow reflection will go away and when you start your next turn you will receive a new, vanilla shadow reflection.
Does this answer your question? Btw, I'm so crafting this deck once the expansion comes live as burgle rogue is my favorite archetype.
Ah, makes sense. That's interesting; we'll have to test Vanish and some other cards maybe too.
I really like the look of this deck now, let me know how it goes for you!
Valeera the Hollow looks like a sick card for this deck! Copy your discounted Arcane Giants :D
Same like in my thought. but maybe you should consider the death knight hero card. I think the death knight hero gonna be ultimate finisher for this deck
Added! Looks very interesting.
Hmm not a bad idea, I'm not sure which card could replace it though. I also think we will have enough cheap spells with up to 8 (2x Counterfeit Coin + 6x Razorpetal). Ethereal Peddler and Vilespine Slayer are stronger 5-drops.
Maybe we could sub 1x Counterfeit Coin for 1x Burgle Bully? I'm not sure if the advantage in having another solid body is more so than having an early spell to use with Edwin VanCleef, Gadgetzan Auctioner or Lilian Voss.
Thanks for your input. I added 2x Arcane Giant and 1x Gadgetzan Auctioneer. I wish Burgle was Standard as it would be in this deck for sure, but we have a lot of other "card stealing" mechanics now. The Arcane Giants and Getgetzan should add another win condition and a cycle mechanic as well.
I like the idea of Malygos too... It would work well with the Razorpetals and class cards like Fireball or Lightning Bolt, etc. Against some classes, however, you might get no direct damage spells so you'd actually want to save your Razorpetals which would be counter intuitive to the deck's strategy. I'm not sure how it would fit but definitely worth trying out.
Because you have a total of 6x Razorpetal which is only 1 mana and does 1 damage. You also have 2x Backstab and 2x Counterfeit Coin. Plus you might get a spell from Swashburglar, Undercity Huckster, or Shaku, the Collector that is unfavorable.
In theory, if you swap out at least 2 Razorpetals and 1 or 2 other cards you should always get better value. Plus, once you get those spells from the other class... you can reduce them by 2 mana with Ethreal Peddler who has a great 5/6 body for 5 mana anyways. The discounted and improved spells are much better then trading spells that we will use with Lilian Voss.
The main trading fodder will be Razorpetals mixed in with a Counterfeit Coin or Backstab occasionally.
The dream would be to play Swashburgler T1, Razorpetal Lasher or Razorpetal Volley T2, A 3-drop or a combination of Swashburgler and a 2 Drop on T3, play Lilian Voss on Turn 4 to swap all those spells, and then T5 play Ethreal Peddler and discount your hand of new spells.
I think Shadowblade is going to help a lot in this deck because it provides solid removal on Turn 3 that also protects your face for one swing. We can remove minions and clear the board while trading and discounting spells.
Late game - Gadgetzan and Arcane Giants will impact the board and Vilepine Slayer can destroy opposing threats.
I think you are missing the important points and synergy. You can easily burn 6x Razorpetal for better spells and still use your most important specials like Eviscerate, Sap, and Fan of Knives. You can still use Backstab in an opportune moment and even Counterfeit Coin for Edwin VanCleef or Gadgetzan Auctioneer.
Cool ideas here. Have you thought about potentially adding things like Questing Adventurer or Gadgetzan Auctioneer in case you don't draw Voss? Perhaps win conditions like Arcane Giant as well due to the sheer number of spells? I play a ton of Burgle rogue and really love the archetype so I've been thinking about whether or not I'd add Voss.