UPDATE
See Blizzard's new update here.
Quote from @PlayHearthstoneThank you for your feedback regarding our recent update. We saw a lot of feedback regarding the recent change to Tess Greymane and are currently discussing this change further. We will provide an update once we have more information to share.
Tess Greymane is Not Disenchantable for Full Value, Clearly a Mistake, Right?
Sigh. We had an amazing Hearthstone patch earlier today which gave us new Arena cards, plenty of bug fixes, and a new upcoming event that's going to give us a ton of dust and gold, but Blizzard really dropped the ball on Tess Greymane.
As you may be aware by now, Tess Greymane was changed in today's patch with the following adjustments.
- Tess will now replay hero cards with her Battlecry.
- Tess’s Battlecry is now limited to 30 cards, and will stop if she is silenced, killed, transformed, leaves the battlefield, or if any hero dies.
Do these changes ring a bell? It sure sounds like the nerfs we saw back in late 2016 to our favourite cuddly old god, Yogg-Saron, Hope's End.
- Yogg-Saron, Hope’s End now stops casting spells when it leaves the battlefield or is silenced.
The Change is the Same!
It should be painfully obvious at this point that these two changes are the same only we ended up getting a nice refund for Yogg if you wanted to partake in the disenchantment of our tentacled friend. Why is this different this time around? So far, Blizzard has not made a statement on the, very clear, nerf to the card and we're not sure if they are even going to.
One thing we can say for certain though is Mike Donais admitted Tess would work like pre-nerf Yogg when she was originally revealed. That right there admits their original intentions and they're now backing down on them.
Quote from Mike DonaisDoes Tess Greymane work like pre-nerf Yogg or post-nerf ?
Pre-nerf Yogg currently.
More Bologna
I wasn't letting them off that easy though. It still makes me, and plenty of you, sad that Blizzard refused to give us a dust refund for changing how Shudderwock worked. Although it was without a doubt a necessary change to preserve some sanity, many players crafted the legendary with the assumption it would go on forever. If people are wasting their expensive dust on a card, they should expect it to behave the original way. This is the whole reason why Blizzard does dust refunds in the first place - you can do cool stuff like that in a digital game.
We also need to bring up Lynessa Sunsorrow who received a major change in the patch which also is a total nerf. Previously, the buffs she received would come in the order you played them in, allowing skilled players to get crazy amounts of value out of her. Now everything is going to come down in a random order which could very easily turn out not at all in your favour. Oops. Another huge change to a card that wasn't properly handled.
While we're here, let's also go back to early 2016 when Mekgineer Thermaplugg's token, Leper Gnome, received a hit from the nerf bat. When a card calls out another exact minion or spell, and they change that card, it is a fundamental change which should have also qualified the card which spawns it a dust refund. This is different from random effects though, those pools should not move down the card chain.
But don't worry, they're giving us discounts on a pack bundle so we don't need that dust, just toss 'em some dollars!
Moving On
If they want to make this a thing going forward, that's fine, but cards need to have these same rules in place before they get released to the masses. Limit "stupid" combos to 30 maximum card plays, make things random if you're afraid of an effect. Most importantly though, give people refunds if you screwed up. Changing the card already admits you made a mistake with the original design of the card, now players need to be reimbursed for that.
Sincerely, one frustrated Hearthstone player to another.
Should Tess Greymane be Disenchantable for Full Dust Value?
Tell us what you think. Answer our poll below and leave a comment if you want to tell us more.
Give me my damn dust! /starts a riot.
My two extra copies (one golden) clearly states that Tess should be a full refund ;)
It is so funny how they are so conservative with balance changes (cost, status, and text changes) with the excuse to respect card ownership but all of a sudden they modify fill cards without any balance reason and refuse to dust refund. Some changes even brought inconsistency to the game, just check how rummaging kobold and grave shambler interacts with kingsbane HERE
All cards should be disenchantable for full value in case of any change.
If is a nerf, refund it. If is buff, refund it, no one will dust it anyway. If is not buff or nerf, refund it, some people will dust it some will not.
I don't understand why what happens in the pictures of you link should be wrong in any way.
I mean if Kings bane loses its last durability it is of course destroyed, it has to be destroyed in order to trigger its deathrattle effect.
In recent update they changed how Rummaging Kobold interacts with Kingsbane, they said "As Kingsbane is not destroyed when its Deathrattle triggers, Rummaging Kobold will no longer retrieve it", so if weapon is not destroyed why does it triggers Grave Shambler effect?
My whole point is, they claim to do some changes in order to make the game more intuitive and consistent, but they do precisely the opposite.
ok i didn't know they said this bullshit
Deleted.
I wanted to comment on the change to Lynessa Sunsorrow. For a lot of decks that currently run her, changing the order of spells she casts to random doesn't change much about the effect unless you include Dark Conviction or a similar card. Even if you run and play out your Dark Conviction in a pre-nerf Lynessa deck, you have to expect Lynessa ends as a 3/3. With the nerf, you could end up with something better thanks to RNG.
I think the change is good because including randomness is more consistent with the way the rest of hearthstone is and it makes playing the card feel more fun.
This should be the standard rule in a game where creative deck building is emphasized:
IF A CARD IS CHANGED IN ANYWAY, BLIZZARD GIVES THE DUST VALUE OF THAT CARD WITHOUT EXCEPTION.
Blizzard has no way of knowing why a card was owned. Maybe it was for the latest net deck, maybe it was for a combo deck, maybe it was for some oddball deck you enjoy. It is that oddball deck builder that might be hurt the most in a nerf. Here you have someone trying to be creative, and they get a bad taste in their mouth when cards are changed without compensation.
The point is, just to cover everyone, give the dust. Give double dust if you really want to do people right. Nerfed cards in combo decks are the worst. Double dust would cover some of the fall out from that.
I am playing it from the begining from last expansion and amount of times she killed herself or polmorph herself was frustrating because I was not able to use shadowstep to abuse ability of tess. So your argument is invalid.
When I play against mage it will prevent me to play
Fireballs, Polymorph, Meteor even Pyroblast so it is a fkn impactful nerf end of period.
lol, the half of the time that i play trss she gets destroyed by a removal spell, from now, il m playing a 8 mana 6/6 50% chance to do nothing
I get that people are angry about the change. I'm just trying to understand why it's so bad. Are you angry about the fact that it got changed without warning? Or do you really play more than 30 cards for Tess to pull off some epic combo? (if so, please send me a deck list so I can check it out :) )
The real nerf is that she stops her battlecry if she dies or is silenced during it, just like how Yogg was nerfed, yet unlike Yogg, there is no dust refund. This also makes it harder to play removal cards from other classes like fireball or polymorph, because if a rogue plays those, Tess can literally be an eight mana do nothing.
I do believe the dust refund is what everyone is mainly angry about, but things like it how wasn't announced (literally in bugfixes), how Tess is already a card in a bad archetype, and that it was literally said to work like pre-nerf Yogg are also things people are angry about.
and there is the problem, is not the 30 cards limit, is how the card works now, if you get a removal card from your burgler affects, and tess cast it on her, as first card, you are playing a 8 mana 0/0 battlecry make your opponent emote you and laugth louder with every emote. the part of being a change like yogg saron's nerf is what matter, yogg, was nerfed (and yes it already had a limit of spells to cast in his battlecry even before the nerf, again, that part its not the problem stop using that as an argument), the fact that tess now stops her battlecry when is removed, is actually a nerf like yogg saron. and thats why blizzard should, revert that part of the change, or do the dust full refund. And no, being a non relevant card is not a good excuse, is the reason that moved blizzard to do this like it did, "make a nerf on a card that is not relevant, hope people does not notice abaut that and we dont have to give the comunyti 1600 dust"
Edit: and as a casual wild player, this change is even worse for Tess, cause there are mor cards that can destroy her and her battlecry.
Cool, thanks for clearing that up. I was trying to get a proper understanding as to why people were outraged. I've never actually played Tess but I would be equally upset if a card I loved was nerfed in such a way. Hope they can resolve the issue.
I think you missed my joke at the fact they havent given heartpwn a card reveal in the last 2 expacs despite quality content, constructive criticism and a great community.
Looks like the community has been heard somehow!
19hs ago, they twitted with their official account the following tweet:
"Thank you for your feedback regarding our recent update. We saw a lot of feedback regarding the recent change to Tess Greymane and are currently discussing this change further. We will provide an update once we have more information to share."
You guys might have done something really good with this thread!
Well.. No.
Flux gave constructive criticism without insulting demeaning anyone. Blizzard uses the same type of criticism a lot within the company during the development cycle. They even mention it a lot during their GDC talks.
It's different to a teenager's angry forum post.
This is 100% right on and great research with well thought out points, that expose what is really a total drop of the ball for a group of professionals that do this for a living.
That said, it also probably guarantees Hearthpwn don't get a card reveal in the next expac either.
I'd rather have this than reveals on this site any day. Thank you Flux.
Wow. That's got to be embarrassing, saying 'failfish' and then having to accept that the failure is yours. The Deathrattle quite explicitly says that it shuffles the card, and not a copy, back into your deck with its standing enchantments. It doesn't smash into a million pieces with the animation, nor play the 'break' sound. It twinkles back into card form and is shuffled back into the deck. Thus it's not destroyed.
But uh, ez clap.