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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase IV [Discussion Topic]
    Quote from CheeseEtc >>
    Review time! Maxlot's message incited me to write this on a text file before posting it. First, let me start by saying that the last 3 phases did their job: There are no classes I really dislike that are left (still uneasy with the loner's general flavor, gameplay-wise it's good though). Now it's about sorting the alright from the good. Note: I won't comment on cards which I think don't need to be changed.
    @Demonxz95
    F Individual cards
    • Hollow Knight - It's too good. 10 Attack on C'Thun isn't that difficult. Lower the stats or raise the cost (I'd prefer a stat lowering).
    • Astral Summoner - Love the concept. It's perfect for a "big" deck, but the stats look too high.
    • Murozond - I don't like this effect at all. He would be even more annoying than his uncorrupted self. I agree that your class should use Murozond as its legendary, but not with this effect.
    • You should definitely pick "???" and Power of Yogg for your epics, both have awesome effects that fit your class well.
    • You could still use Demented Lackey without +X/+X, no?
    • Child's Play - Too many potential broken combos with it. There's a reason why Shadowcaster is on a 5mana body.
    Overall This set looks really good so far. Better than in the last phase! There is no card I really dislike among yours and the Quick Time keyword and your Hero Power add a huge strategic depth to your class (probably the most skill-testing class of ours) so it's not surprising. My only critic is that you actually went too far in terms of complexity and your set lacks "simple" cards. You can use your remaining spots to make up for this.

    @thepowerofcheese
    Individual cards
    • Bilefin Murloc - Too good. Lower the stats.
    • Shifting Sludge - I don't see the point of this card.
    • Deepcaller - "Reduce your C'Thun's Cost by (1)", also such big stats on a Murloc is weird. Finally, C'Thun (midrange-control) does not fit well with Murlocs (aggro).
    • AbercroMbie - The effect is weird. I didn't get it before reading the explanation. I advise you to find another close effect.
    Overall The cards are cool, they all have nice flavor and WOG fits well with an apothecary class. I'm still skeptical of Mutate but the variance between the effects isn't huge this time so it's good. I advise you to use the remaining slots to make some all-around good cards

    @McF4rtson
    I already gave you all feedback I wanted to give on individual cards in private, so I will keep it brief. Overall I still think this is the future winner. The Reservoir keyword adds a lot of strategical depth (no pun intented) to your class, but you also have some good ideas on top of that which is awesome. Only issue is Ravenous Tentacle for which I'm not sure about balance if you can put many in your deck.

    @Ragnador
    Individual cards
    • Obsidian Pawn - What is the point of this? Nobody would play that.
    • Menagerie Semantery - Uh, that really sucks. I get that it costs (7) because it guarantees you a big-ass Dragon but compare this to Eternal Servitude... What about 4mana "Summon a 1/1 copy of a friendly Murloc; a Beast, and a Dragon that died this game"?
    • Forbidden Knowledge - I love the concept. This is broken as fuck against aggro. If you give this a nonzero base cost it would be balanced (something like 1 or 2).
    • Loss of Sanity - Oh boy, I hope your class doesn't have AOEs otherwise it would give rise to some very fun and interactive combos. Tone down the effect. 1mana "Deal 1 damage" seems more balanced.
    • Spectral Pathfinder - This is too situational for a class card. If it blew up secrets as well like Flare it would be better.
    • Tainted Lore Keeper - Text positioning could be improved. I would put the "died" on the last line. Otherwise decent card.
    • Echo of the Ancients - So, we definitely need some explanations. Would the cost be divined by (2) as well? If C'Thun is on the board, will it summon another copy of it. In the hand? If C'Thun is further buffed, would each part gain the buff? The effect is waaay to ambiguous but even without that the effect isn't that great. Also not sure it counts for #2.
    Overall Not enough cards to make a good judgment yet, but individually most of your cards have issues. Your class has a clear intrisic synergy with N'Zoth, the Corruptor so I would add plenty of Deathrattles in your set. Finally, I don't know if I'm the only one to mind but try to use more WoW-related art for your class. There is plenty of necromancer-like art out there.

    @Tomerick88
    Individual cards
    • Suspicious Banana - Could cost (1). Damn I love the concept.
    • C'Thun's Buffoon - Hmm, wouldn't a double of all stats count for #2 as well?
    • Midnight Whelp - Extremely weak. It's a swarm-style card but Dragons aren't a swarm archetype. Also don't use the art on Molten Reflection please.
    • Bearded Dragon - This is really weak, and the art is ugly.
    • Dragonlord's Favour - It could target any minion at this cost. Really. Or could make it 3mana "Give a minion +2/+2. If it's a Dragon, also give adjacent minions +1/+1" or something.
    • Highlight Reel - Hmm, this could be a balance issue in later sets.
    • Death Duck - Poisonous is illegal. I don't like the card anyway.
    • Lute Chorder - Shitty statline not justified by the effect.
    Overall The cards are interesting taken individually, and the flavor is still awesome. Gameplay-wise I have my doubts. You said your class has a swarm playstyle, so I don't see why it has Dragon synergy. It's very odd. For your epic, just keep Forbidden Gag. Also, pls keep Wooden Boy. It's awesome flavor. If you don't use it in Kara, put it into WOG.

    @Haileystrasza
    Individual cards
    • Forbidden Summoning - This card is either useless or part of a "fun and interactive" cancer combo. It's bad in any case.
    • Envoy of the Silent - That's... overly complicated.
    Overall I can't say much with just 3 cards, except that you should absolutely avoid making cards that are too complicated (the fact that you have 2 custom keywords makes it easy to fall into this).

    @NecroaV
    Individual cards They look alright. But the arts aren't really geomancer-related.

    @maxlot
    Individual cards
    • Abandoned Hatchling - The effect is good, but the art is ugly.
    • Exactly as planned - I love this, but this kind of effect doesn't fit WOG.
    • Corrupt Forerunner - Too weak. You will never have enough dragons in your hand to make this good.
    • Menagerie Runaway - Broeck did something similar for 7.06, just so you know. Not a problem for me but might be for other people (like the aforementioned Broeck). The card itself is awesome.
    • Magicat - "Give all 0-Cost minions in your deck [...]". The card itself is good.
    Overall Overall very flavorful cards with cool effects! But I think your cards lack a unifying theme, like synergy with any of the Old God cards.

    And now here are my cards! Whispers of the old gods The (sub-)theme of this class set is targeted roast (like my Cannibal Cake from the classic set) to draw your win condition (Old God or either Deathwing) quickly. @Mods Pls I need confirmation that Blade of C'Thun-like effects are legal for #2 Karazhan Nothing fancy here except the fact that I'm dissapointed by challenge #3 because Karazhan has intrinsic Chef flavor, and I can only make 2 cards out of this :( Other ideas I had (in case those I had aren't good)
    Now there's several questions I'm asking myself:
    1. I'm not satisfied with taking Kosumoth the Hungering as my legendary. The problem is that I don't know any character that is both Chef and WOTOG-related. I picked Kosumoth because it has "hungering" in its name but it's a bit lazy. Do you think I should make a custom character again?
    2. Does Harsh Food Critic qualify for #2. Pls mods I need an answer.
    3. Is it weird that my Karazhan set contains only spell? I planned to do a minion, but that chess bullshit forced me to do this instead and there isn't any chess term that is directly food-related.
    4. Does my WOG set contains too much spell?
    5. I feel like my set is too one-dimensional and I want to include synergy with the hero power ("Deal 2 damage to a random enemy"), is it a good idea?
    6. Are Improvise, Haute Cuisine and Highlands Dragon pertinent cards to have?
    1. You could make another custom character, though I'm unsure how well people will receive it. I honestly can't give any suggestions, my WoW knowledge isn't very expansive. As of right now, I definitely do think you'll have to get a different character because even with hungering in his name, the flavor is a little lacking.
    2. I really hope so... I think the card is cool, by the way.
    3. Having only spells in Karazhan is probably not a brilliant idea, only warrior had no minions, but they had a weapon at least. I'd say get rid of Arcanists Cookbook, because I dislike it a lot. I'd say every card should be applicable in every match-up, even if only slightly. Acidic Swamp Ooze is still a 3/2 against a weaponless class, Flare is still a card against a class without Stealth or Secrets and even Eater of Secrets will be a 2/4 body against secret-less classes. This does nothing if your opponent isn't sending out tribal minions, so I think it ought to go.
    4. Not at all, all classes in Whispers had 3-4 spells, this one is no different.
    5. I don't really think your set is too one dimensional, you've got a variety of different cards in Whispers... Though I think you might need more Roast recovery tools like that big guy you replaced the Rock with and the Caravan. This is because you'd have to ban yourself from running roast cards if you wanted to play an Old God deck.
    6. They're fine.
     
    As for what everyone else has been saying about my class, I'm surprised by the amount of feedback I got.
    - Corrupted Hatchling's probably just gonna stay the same, even if he'd be a really strong arena card, and no Cheese, he isn't ugly. I don't want you talking about him in that way ever again, or so help me I will curse you to always Roast your C'Thun.
    - I'm glad that Sprouting Heads as an idea was received well, for now that's all I really cared about, a few pf these of these cards were incredibly rough and blatantly overpowered, but I feel that's better for getting the idea across.
    - Squeak Seeker will be changed to a Deathrattle, I actually prefer that.
    - I don't think I'll change Lashing Monstrosity, even if he is certainly very strong, I don't think he's quite on Rags power level. When Rag hits a minion, that minion's usually dead regardless of circumstance, only tanky boys live it. For Monstrosity, this is significantly less true.
    - I was hoping for a more outraged response to Exactly as Planned to be honest, but whatever. I just wanted to see what the reaction was to the premise, and I'm surprised that there were people complaining about the set it's positioned in rather than its effect. I think I'll move it to Kobolds and Catacombs, set the cost to 5 instead, and come up with something that, as Cheese said, provide a more unifying theme to the set itself.
    - Corrupt Forerunner was mostly positively received, except Cheese, who thinks it's pretty much always bad. Now, I'm not actually gonna defend it much, because I want to change it slightly anyway (Shares mana cost with another dragon card from a future expansion), but I'd like you to go into more detail. You get a 3/3 and then another 3/3 for each Dragon in hand, so with 2 in hand, three 3/3's. I honestly don't feel it's that bad but I want to hear someone's argument against that.
    - Covetous Devotee is a card that I didn't really expect to be called too strong. His 11 stats aren't distributed well in the slightest, and you don't understat C'Thun buffers, that's just how C'Thun decks are supposed to work. His actual effect isn't inherently very strong unless you save him for late into the game, due to the fact that unlike Blade of C'Thun, he doesn't do anything when he hits the board, and unlike a lot of other C'Thun buffers, his effect doesn't do anything unless you play him with some other guys. Perhaps other C'Thun buffers wouldn't be as important for a C'Thun deck with this, but it's not like you wouldn't want to run them in some decks and I'd see that as a possible boon due to an increased variety in C'Thun decklists, rather than including Beckoner of Evils, then Disciple of C'Thuns, then C'Thun's Chosens etc
    None of that will matter though until I hear back from Cogito or someone else about whether this is actually allowed for the challenge.
    - Rosea... She made it obvious to me that I should have at least done the usual show off the core class stuff before the new thing, because it seems not everyone was quite sure how she worked. That's completely my fault, and I now feel dumb. That aside, no one seemed to have any huge issues with her except her wording, which I'll change.
    - Lol, I knew everyone would say this guy was too strong. Anyway, people seem to think it's too strong because it's better than Leeroy, so it's being treated as a finisher card, which wasn't necessarily my intention. Therefore, I'm going the reverse the stats of the Murloc and give it Taunt.
    - Gloat is a card that I wasn't expecting anyone to call too strong, and I'm still not quite sure why it was. If it drew 2, then one of the Summoners two only card draw cards would be a strict downgrade to Arcane Intellect, which is the standard for card draw. And yeah, it costs less than Nourish, because it has a condition and doesn't work immediately. Ah, whatever, if it's really too strong I kinda want to hear more peoples arguments why.
    - Wording on Magicat will be improved a little as Cheese suggested, and the effect will be turned down a little to make it a tad bit slower. I want the effect to be potent, but not necessarily as highrolly, with insane openers and such. I'll either tune down the attack stat by 1 or come up with some condition that lowers the issue.
    Thank you all so much for your feedback!
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase IV [Discussion Topic]

    Alright, accidently refreshed the page and lost all my writing, but basically I'll review peoples stuff in a little while, for now here's what I've been coming up with.

    Whispers of the Old Gods

    Explanations

    Abandoned Hatchling: A heavily corrupted version of Baby Gryphon, this one's been abandoned by its mother and is real angry. For the first challenge.

    Whispers of Ruin: This has some very, very obvious targets and is generally just decent in general.

    Sprouting Heads: The likeliness of this being incredibly dangerous is fairly high, but I want to hear peoples thoughts about it first. The chance of this getting nerfed is close to definate. I just want to hear your opinions on the effect more than anything.

    Squeak Seeker: A cute little rat dude that'll fetch your cute 0-Cost cards for you. The invoke cost on the Gryphons is suddenly a bit more relevant.

    Lashing Monstrosity: Just a solid taunt minion that's pretty scary, makes it hard for opponent to re-establish a board.

    Exactly as Planned: 'The hero watches with amazement as Mephilias own giant rock dude rushed out and R.K.O'd her Bog Creeper to the ground, leaving her defenseless. Mephilia sat back in her throne and smirked. "It's all going according to my plan." she cackled.' Excellent value if you've built a very minion heavy deck with some high cost spells.

    Corrupt Forerunner: A swarm of 3/3 Dragons will reward you for running a very dragon heavy deck. Flavourfully, they're the harbingers of the dragons, coming out to tell your opponent how many dragons you have in hand while beating your opponent down.

    Covetous Devotee: Aggressively statted, it's not gonna live a turn most likely, so be prepared to drop something on the same turn as this dude. Can get you some really nice stats, but the main three stat givers (Bittertide Hydra, Balls of Fire and Jade Golems, take significant deckbuilding choices. For the second challenge.

    Mad Prophet Rosea: Oh look, Yoth'al is a character actually in WoW, I did it. Anyway, really good if you have some expensive spells in your deck or spells with high Invoke costs. Very slow and your opponent can see it coming, but your next turn will be pretty big.

    One Night in Karazhan

    Explanations

    Menagerie Runaway: It's beautiful, seeing the murlocs and beasts gang up together to escape. Very powerful with Menagerie minions, being a card that is singlehandedly both a murloc and beast.

    Gloat: "Haha! You have fallen right into my trap!" is a common phrase from villains, because when you go through all the effort of putting down a trap in the first place, it's a little tiring, so seeing them actually fall for it can provide some much needed Catharsis. Potentially powerful alternative to Evil Laughter for a different type of deck. For the fourth challenge.

    Magicat: Mephilia has just the right tools to turn the cutest minions in the game into terrifying monsters. That's why she's using this, and not to have an excuse to fill her deck with Murloc Tinyfins and Baby Gryphons. After all, she HATES cute animals, so why would she be doing it for that reason? 0-Cost Summoner could totally be an archetype with the help of Gryphons, Seekers and these guys, just consider the cards Double, Study, One-Eyed Academic and Whispers of Ruin... Suddenly you're capable of dropping an average of 4 or 5 of these each game, boosting your tiny creatures to comedic strength.

    That about wraps up what I've done, I'll go eat and do other things, and then I'll probably review something by the end of today, seeya then.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase IV [Challenges Poll]

    Huh, 1, 2 and 4.

    I'm pretty happy with 1 and 4, less so about 2. Whatever, roll with the punches I guess.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase IV [Challenges Poll]
    Quote from CheeseEtc >>

    Would this qualify for the tentacle challenge? The tentacles are clearly visible on the original art but here they're slightly hidden by the centering.

    (And if you could give your opinion on the card too, the idea is that it would make you draw your win condition (Old God/Other DW), my whole set will be based around that)

    Also nice work Cogito, I can probably use your banner as a header and McFartson's one as an introduction to my class' gameplay.

    I can't really see the original art, you've linked the text to the actual card instead of it. And although this is one of the cases where the orphan in the text is hard to avoid, I really don't like how the text box looks. The card itself is cool, one of the more interesting ways to rush to your C'Thun/Yogg/Y'Shaarj/N'Zoth, also good for decks with a giant swarm of 10 drops in the forms of Deathwings and such. I don't think this should be a Deathwing itself though, for the same reason Tomerick said.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase IV [Challenges Poll]
    Quote from Cogito_Ergo_Sum >>

    Okay, currently in the process of making banners. So far, I'm only gonna create fonts for peeps who DON'T have a banner. If you want me to make a banner for you, just ask! Note that this is a WIP, so most of these kinda suck. Whattya guys think so far?









    Wow, thank you for actually working on banners for all of us, they look really good. I really like the banner you've made for my class, love the little Mwahahaha that you put at the bottom, though I will say I'm unsure on that font and maybe since the main class identity is still summoning monsters and stuff, there should be something spooky in the background somewhere. Other than that, I'm rather fond of it and will stick with it for now.
    Again, thanks a lot for doing this!
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase IV [Challenges Poll]
    Quote from Tomerick88 >>
    Quote from ShadowsOfSense >>
    Quote from Tomerick88 >>

    I may be wrong but, from what I can tell, the forbidden spell challenge would only work with minions as if a forbidden spell cost more than 0 it would still have the same effect as if it cost 0 rendering it pointless for it to cost more.  The minions can cost more because it is the Battlecry etc that spends all the mana.  Honestly this challenge would be enough simply to require you to have a forbidden spell.  It's already taking up an epic slot even at that.

     Not really? If Forbidden Flame cost (2), for example, you could only deal a maximum of 8 damage with it, instead of 10. Obviously a terrible card, but just an example. We know it works like that because of cards like Loatheb and Nerubian Unraveler.
    I actually had a Forbidden spell as part of my Phase I submission which cost 2 mana, it's all about balancing it.
    Hmm perhaps but I would say two things.  One Forbidden spells are 0 cost why should our class be different if it is supposed to be part of the game? Two because we haven't seen that mechanic used in that way on a spell we don't know whether it would work the way I assume or the way you assume.
    There are two challenges here, this one and the C'Thun one, that outright encourage your class to go outside convention just for the sake of it.  If we had decided to do those things ourselves without the challenges we would be criticised.  These challenges are more at home in a card creation competition not the class one in my opinion.
    Even the corrupted minion one is a problem in my opinion as, if I'm not mistaken, the corrupted ones are all based on neutral classics by convention.
    Forbidden Ancient costs 1, but yeah, all the spells do cost 0. I'm not really sure how I feel about that challenge, nor number two, so I'm voting for 1, 4 and 6 myself. A forbidden spell that costs more than 0 still works fine however, the effect scales with the amount of mana you burned in the effect, which would have been reduced by the original casting cost.
    Also, we do have Mire Keeper as a corrupted Keeper of the Grove, Ravaging Ghoul as a corrupted Unstable Ghoul (which is admittedly much more loose and not originally warrior), Wisps of the Old Gods as a corrupted Dark Wispers, though not a minion and finally Ragnaros, Lightlord. (Though OG Rag is certainly not for Pally) So I don't think the first challenge is THAT bad.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase IV [Challenges Poll]

    Glad to have gotten through, sad that the Harbinger and Experimenter didn't get through, but otherwise pretty happy with the lineup here. Gonna go 1, 2 and 6 for this.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Final Poll #2]
    Quote from Turkeybag >>
    Quote from maxlot >>

    Gabriel, The Scribe:

    There're a lot of words across these cards, so many to the point where trying to read them all and think of its balance and implications in a group is exerting actual energy from my body. I get he's a scribe and all but that doesn't mean too many cards with too many words ought to be a class identity. The tomes are pretty cool mechanically, there's a lot of ways to utilise the keyword.

    Tome Strike is my favourite out of your cards, the cost increase and reduction mechanic works very well, uhhh... I'm trying to think of the class as a whole, but honestly it just simply doesn't feel simple enough for that. There're so many conditions, so many potential upsides, so many cards with effects with big implications and uses like Scroll of Equalisation and Power Transcription, but I really prefer cards like Tome Strike and Tome Taker. Hearthstone is all about simplicity, and honestly this class just doesn't feel quite simple enough.

    I also am unsure about "If your opponent controls no minions" as a mechanic. It feels win more. "If your opponent is struggling to get minions stuck to the board, deal damage to the next minion they play." is a bigger example of this than "If your opponent is struggling to get minions stuck to the board, get some value in the form of tomes.", due to the fact it doesn't necessarily further the problem your opponent is already having, so I think if you stick with it, I'd prefer more cards like the second. I also dislike the legendary, it feels both highrolly due to the random effects and it feels like it can lock people down potentially, by making all their cards cost way too much while they can't target it with their spells. It also doesn't feel very classic.

     I never actually considered the overall amount of text on my cards. I was kinda just making sure each card was 4 lines or less without small text. It's definitely something I will keep in mind in the future as I agree, I probably have too much overall text. I just never thought about it.

    The class is in a way about discovery. There are so many ways to use the class and cards that I've probably missed half of them. I really enjoy the whole discovery aspect and think it'd add a variety of different decks finding different uses for each card but I get it may not be for everyone.

    The class is definitely a win more class but in a different way than classes like shaman that snowball on board and just flat out win with Bloodlust. Think of a control warrior that once he clears your minions, he has a much easier time keeping them cleared. Again personal preference comes in here as this win more approach leads to longer games than the alternative, but I think that gives your opponent more of a chance to use their deck and make a comeback!

    You can remove the RNG factor from the legendary by having 4 tomes active. You'll have to build most your deck around maintaining them but you get a lot of power and consistency out of the legendary along with the benefits of all the tomes. As for suiting classic, Gelbin Mekkatorque, Elite Tauren Chieftain, Lord Jaraxxus ect were in classic so I think he fits.

    I appreciate the feedback!
     Ah, scratch what I said about the Legendary, I probably missed where you said it before but I thought you could get multiple of the same Omen, my apologies.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Final Poll #2]
    Quote from Sinti >>
    Quote from maxlot >>

    Happy to have gotten through all that and sorry if I came off as harsh to anyone, I'm not brilliant at card design myself and don't take anything I say to heart. But there's one last thing I want to leave this post with, because it's a common mistake that's not really the end of the world, it's just a formatting tip... Anyway.

    See that word at the bottom there? It doesn't look very good due to how uneven all the text is now. So just enter a line break somewhere along the line before it and it'll all start looking much better - Go get that orphan some parents. There're a lot of orphans among the cards I'm seeing before me, and they're all very lonely, so please help them... And before anyone asks, keywords alone aren't orphans obviously.

    This is not something that we can fix every time and plenty of existing cards have single word in one line (last or otherwise). Yeah, its not the most aesthetically pleasing thing ever, but it also is not something that should make you go like "oh noes, single word in the last line ... bb badly designed card". Everyone can have their preferences, that is totally fine, but you were a tiny bit condescending about this part, or at least thats how it felt to me ;-)
    Oh my god I'm so sorry if I sounded condescending, I didn't mean to be. Also, as I already said, it really isn't that big of a deal, if your card has an orphan, it's not like it's suddenly terrible or anything, sorry if I sounded like I was saying that as well. It was only meant to be a little tip to any of the other designers here who weren't already doing that, because even if you can get into a scenario where you can't really avoid the orphan, I don't think absolutely everyone here has been trying to avoid it, so I was just saying they could make their cards look a little bit nicer if they could do that.
    Again, if you're not avoiding orphans, it doesn't make you any worse of a designer, and if you are avoiding them, it doesn't necessarily mean you're doing fantastically. I'm kinda embarassed now, so I'm sorry about that.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Final Poll #2]
    Quote from thepowrofcheese >>

    Keyword is cool, legendary is cool, hero power is cool, almost all of the cards are fairly cool, but I can't bring myself to vote for it because of your For Science! card. I'm serious, I'm rather fond of literally every single classic card you've made that doesn't rhyme with appliance.

    I know you can't break it using Malygos because of your classes approach to spell damage, but it still just feels way too highrolly for my liking. Inconsistent, probably not actually good enough to see use in every deck out there, but it reminds me of Barnes in a way I significantly dislike, and I simply don't want to vote for a class containing it. Turn 2-3 fully statted Y'Shaarj is a scary thought.

    I appreciate the feedback, @maxlot. For Science was one of my last cards, and my only feedback on it was "it can probably cost the same as AI." It's inconsistent as hell but I can understand how it could be frustrating when you get this 1/1000 perfect roll. 

    If I continue forward I'll probably rebalance it. Would you think a higher cost would offset the potential RNG? Perhaps it could average out the costs instead of swapping them? Or would you recommend something completely different?

    Glad to hear you like the rest of the class!

     Thanks for the response that was remarkably faster than mine here. I'm a little unsure on how to make the card less frustrating, but averaging the costs would definately not be the way to go because you generally want to avoid averages and halving in Hearthstone due to the nature of the game. So I'd have to say you should either go for something entirely different but also crazy or you could make it cost 5 or higher, though with increased card draw. So maybe 5-6 mana for "Draw 3 cards. Swap their costs randomly." or even 7 for 4 cards. These would actually make a high roll into something like Y'Shaarj or some other big dude more likely due to more chances to get him, whilst lessening the impact of it happening due to it being a later stage of the game.
    Posted in: Fan Creations
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    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Final Poll #2]
    Quote from Phoenixfeather >>
    Quote from Zanywoop >>

    I'm interested; What's the formula for the order of the poll? Not that it probably matters, just curious.

    y=12.3log(sqrt(arcsin^-2(rx)+5D4x)) in Hexadecimal where r is the humidity percentage at the given surface point on earth and D is the number of Dragons played in the last minute in Hearthstone and MtG Online rounded to the nearest tens value. This test ran between 1:31 - 1:55 CT to determine the order.
    (In other words, ShadowsOfSense used a random number generator.)
     
    (Also, out of curiosity, how many submissions does the average person averagely upvote? For this CCC, I chose one)
     I voted for 4
    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 2

    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Final Poll #2]

    Ya know what, I want to say some stuff because I've been feeling like I haven't been talking enough this comp, so I'm just gonna give my thoughts on stuff.
    Could I have put that a little more elegantly? Probably, but I'm just gonna go regardless. Gonna go from bottom to top.

    Emmet Brickowski, Professional Lego:

    I dunno why it took me writing down all the class names to realise this, but Lego isn't actually a class, though you can't really change that. It's fine regardless but you're going under the title of Professional Lego for now. I adore the lighthearted and wholesome meminess of the class; it's not a joke post, it's just a class that's very fun. I dislike keywords in the hero power on principle but it's too late to change that, though I like that you've properly thought out the system for developing the crystals, though I've only just realised that there's no indication to a new player that the crystals can advance, nor how they can do it. I also dislike Lifesteal being one of the mechanics on the crystals since the mechanic came out in KotFT.

    I like your example cards, I think Good Cop switching into Bad Cop is pretty funny, Driller's an interesting way of making buff focused cards that work well for control and Aerial Attack's really nice. I have a big issue with Batman though, he's fairly uninteresting, and feels like he's just The Lich King but in classic, which you generally don't want, because the classic Legendary is usually rather simple. I wish the Bad Gadgets were all spells that costed 2, as they are it's very inconsistent on how useful the gadget you're going to get will be... And Batclaw's just unfun.

    In addition to that, the Gadgets have really bad art. None look like Lego and most have bad backgrounds. This is actually true across all your cards, as well as bad formatting and missing capitalisation. I think you should have spent more time checking over your cards to see if the art is fitting or there're any lower case letters after a period. And I mean art is fitting in multiple ways, in both that it looks like it belongs in the class or, like the Duck Tank you didn't show in the examples, the art actually fits within the card borders.

    Odyn, The Keeper:

    Honestly, not fond of the hero power. All four of them have different conditions allowing your opponent to play around them easily and you can't pick which one you get. What's your reward for this? An effect that any other hero power could do, but targetted, immediate, etc. It just feels weak. Also, having to play around secrets every turn of the game and keep track of which secrets your opponent played and which they generated sounds incredibly annoying. I've not got too much of a problem with the amount of secret stuff you have, to my surprise.

    I think Lifeforce Construct is pretty cool, I love how you've made negative stat buffs actually okay by making the attack go to a minimum of one (though it doesn't say that in the Entropic Construct, you might need to shorten the text to fit it in) and the Power of Creation I actually rather like. I do dislike your legendary though. Classic legendaries are meant to be incredibly simple, with the most complicated being Jaraxxus, but he gets a pass due to rule of cool. Other than that it's big dino with charge, big orc with charge that gets angry when you punch him, big windlord with a bunch of keywords, big prophet that makes you a better spellcaster, etc. Also adding Fate to it seems completely pointless, playing a 10/10 attached to an Arcane Intellect seems remarkably unlegendary.

    Tactician, the... Tactician:

    You don't reckon you could've given this guy a name? Tony Smartface, Bob Thinkman, Gabriel Brainbutt? This is a class comp, not a people comp, but that doesn't mean that your hero should be nameless. Regardless, your hero power is one I dislike due to its dependancy to have a minion on the board, whereas you should aim to have a hero power that works regardless of board. Your legendary is actually passing the criteria of being simple while highly impactful and a win condition, however I think this card might be a tad bit unfun and generally imbalanced. A 20 health heal effectively, and 4 walls that you have to bust through, all attached to a 7 mana 4/7. Oh god.

    I dunno why you felt the need to get the fairly disliked Freeze keyword and rework it so that you could include banning people from playing cards or drawing on top of stopping minions from attacking. Freezing the secrets is pretty cool however but then I have to ask... What are these secrets and why? Generally, secrets are supposed to be a condition that can be fulfilled that provides a very powerful effect in exchange for your opponent being able to play around it. These always trigger but the effect never feels even slightly strong. Training Complete, for example, is literally just Blessing of Kings on a delay for whatever reason. Also, drop Full Plate Emissary, a 4 cost body that ignores taunt for 5 mana is just worthless and the effect has no place in the game, it's just a mechanic that only exists to ignore an already pre-existing mechanic. Hopefully we'll soon start seeing cards with Mega-Taunt that can force minions with Ignores Taunt to attack them, though that won't matter much in the face of the legendary dragon, Waidooeyexisst with his classic Ignores Mega-Taunt mechanic. Also where's the flavour behind this?

    Riggs, The Jester:

    I like a lot of what this class is doing. The mechanics and themes are clearly defined, it's fun and simple and the flavour is great. Your hero power is really cool, a little strong though (talking about your actual hero power, not the one you accidently put in here), your legendary is a powerful win condition that's quite simple, in an Antonidas kinda way... And you have a card with Kefka's face on it, so I actually have to vote for you now.

    I do think you surely could have found better artwork for Rubber Duck than the one you found, as difficult as it probably would have been. Wild Card is definately a cool card and a very interesting way of balancing out the 1 mana card draw issue that's hard to balance. In Joke feel too strong however and Invigorating Jig feels too weak, though I have few other qualms with the class. It's generally just very pleasant through and through... Except Rubber Duck, please, I don't care if it takes a week, find better art for it.

    Ori, The Spirit:

    This class doesn't really grip me. Legendary feels boring and RNG heavy, Falling Light is very RNG heavy, Congeries is boring, doesn't actually help the keyword itself and sucks. None of the cards stand out to me, each piece of artwork just doesn't look good because the majority isn't artwork at all and in general, I can't think of anything else to say about it other than it feels incredibly lazy.

    Sinci, The Scribbler:

    Probably one of the most high effort classes in here and I definately want it to do well, though I'm starting to like it less. It's wholesome and fun, showing that classes which aren't hugely serious can still be fun and cool while not being joke classes. However, it feels one-dimensional. It feels like you woke up and thought to yourself, "Hmmm... What if I made a class which draws cards?" but then after a while of thinking you went "Wait, what about a class... Which draws cards!?" and then made that one of the only discernable identities.

    The hero power draws cards and shuffles cards. And then with the cards itself, well, the first common stops you from drawing cards, the second one shuffles cards when you draw cards, the third one costs less depending on how you drew the card, the forth buffs a minion when you draw cards, the fith one draws cards and the sixth deals 7 damage to a minion and your hero. Your first rare draws cards and shuffles cards into your deck, the second interacts with shuffling cards, the third reduces the cost of a card when you draw cards and then you have the forth which summons a minion from your hand and the sixth which reduces the cost of your next minion and buffs it. From there, all three of your epics interact with drawing cards, one of which shuffles them and then the legendary is a really big shuffle effect. Sorry if that took a while to read, but my point is aside from drawing and shuffling cards, your class has little identity, as interesting as it was seeing you use card draw in so many different ways as a mechanic.

    I'm unsure what I'd actually do within the class that wasn't draw cards. I feel like I'd like it more if it felt like all the card drawing eventually lead up to something, which it doesn't really feel like it does. Duplicator's certainly a possible win condition, I could probably run a Details + Duplicator deck, but aside from that I'm not really feeling as interested in the class as much as the artwork, sorry.

    Vyral, The Apothecary:

    Keyword is cool, legendary is cool, hero power is cool, almost all of the cards are fairly cool, but I can't bring myself to vote for it because of your For Science! card. I'm serious, I'm rather fond of literally every single classic card you've made that doesn't rhyme with appliance.

    I know you can't break it using Malygos because of your classes approach to spell damage, but it still just feels way too highrolly for my liking. Inconsistent, probably not actually good enough to see use in every deck out there, but it reminds me of Barnes in a way I significantly dislike, and I simply don't want to vote for a class containing it. Turn 2-3 fully statted Y'Shaarj is a scary thought.

    Gabriel, The Scribe:

    There're a lot of words across these cards, so many to the point where trying to read them all and think of its balance and implications in a group is exerting actual energy from my body. I get he's a scribe and all but that doesn't mean too many cards with too many words ought to be a class identity. The tomes are pretty cool mechanically, there's a lot of ways to utilise the keyword.

    Tome Strike is my favourite out of your cards, the cost increase and reduction mechanic works very well, uhhh... I'm trying to think of the class as a whole, but honestly it just simply doesn't feel simple enough for that. There're so many conditions, so many potential upsides, so many cards with effects with big implications and uses like Scroll of Equalisation and Power Transcription, but I really prefer cards like Tome Strike and Tome Taker. Hearthstone is all about simplicity, and honestly this class just doesn't feel quite simple enough.

    I also am unsure about "If your opponent controls no minions" as a mechanic. It feels win more. "If your opponent is struggling to get minions stuck to the board, deal damage to the next minion they play." is a bigger example of this than "If your opponent is struggling to get minions stuck to the board, get some value in the form of tomes.", due to the fact it doesn't necessarily further the problem your opponent is already having, so I think if you stick with it, I'd prefer more cards like the second. I also dislike the legendary, it feels both highrolly due to the random effects and it feels like it can lock people down potentially, by making all their cards cost way too much while they can't target it with their spells. It also doesn't feel very classic.

    Gailyn, The Geomancer:

    Already discussed your class a lot in private, I like how you've reworked the Artificer, though still not fond of Forging Rune or Burrowing Ambush.

    Gordo, The Chef:

    Already talked about your class as a whole a little bit before, so I'll keep this brief. This is still one of the absolute hardest classes to make functional and reliable due to the nature of the keyword, but I feel like it can be a great class if you hit that point. Control decks randomly roasting cards in their deck sounds like something that's next to impossible to get to a point where luck doesn't play at least half the role you did in deciding the outcome of the game, but maybe the class will get there. Flavour is fantastic, dedication to getting this class working is impressive, cards are original yet simple. Legendary, while wordy with multiple effects, still feels simple enough and the effect is kind of a necessity so I'm fully okay with it. I like the class. A lot.

    Mephilia, The Summoner:

    lmao summoenr isn't a class dumbo

    Kargath, the Berserker:

    This is the reason I decided to start from the bottom, going upwards. I'm just gonna start this off by just simply saying that I do not like this class.

    Now that that's out of the way, I'll get into the why. I'm okay with a class feeling similar to one of the classes in the actual game, with a class competition that's entirely natural, and you've clearly tried to use alternative themes to the warrior that still relate to the class such as temporary armor and attacking, rather than actual armor and damage. It still feels similar, but I'm okay with it. My actual problem with the class comes from how the entire class feels like it was built around beating aggro and doing very little else.

    The hero power and all of your armor gain cards are really strong, probably even too strong, against decks that want to deal damage to you every turn, but do next to nothing against a control deck or some other slow deck whilst you don't have a weapon out. Your keyword allows you to counter those pesky aggro decks with minions that are really strong, spells which have bonus effects and flat out huge board clears... If they're playing more minions than you. Otherwise, they do very little. Really big taunts that really gets in the way of that annoying aggro players connection to your face, but have remarkably less attack than health. You do have a couple of options against decks which aren't face decks in the form of Bladefist and Vicious Lunge (Which is BLATANTly overpowered by the way), but so much of your removal is in small amounts, with 4 being the highest it typically goes to (Aside from your 3 mana deal 8 damage with an upside card). It just doesn't feel like the class does anything at all against decks with a lot of big minions. Again, Vicious Lunge is absolutely fine, because it's 6 mana for 8 damage, therefore I see no issue with it. The cost of the card added to your hand can totally just be added onto the overall cost to make it balanced. This logic works fine in all cases, so you've inspired me to also make a card that's balanced in much the same way.

    Totally balanced, right? This was, of course, exaggerated, but hopefully you'll understand my point by looking at them. Vicious Lunge is literally Flame Lance for 3 mana with an upside, you can't just add the token cost on top of it and say it costs 6, that's not how it works.

    Finally, start capitalising Armor, like you were doing back in basic, and differentiate your class legendary from Grommash a little more. I get they're different cards, with different uses, but that doesn't change the fact you made an 8 mana charging orc minion with high health and low attack that gets a significant stat boost under a class condition, even if Enrage isn't technically warrior only. Warrior is the class you should be most concerned about avoiding similarities between to keep your class original, don't make your legendary feel like almost the same thing as theirs. I know it's a big taunt rather than a card to kill the enemy with, but the card still feels too similar. Other than all of that, the class has nice flavour and it's usually pretty balanced.

    Happy to have gotten through all that and sorry if I came off as harsh to anyone, I'm not brilliant at card design myself and don't take anything I say to heart. But there's one last thing I want to leave this post with, because it's a common mistake that's not really the end of the world, it's just a formatting tip... Anyway.

    See that word at the bottom there? It doesn't look very good due to how uneven all the text is now. So just enter a line break somewhere along the line before it and it'll all start looking much better - Go get that orphan some parents. There're a lot of orphans among the cards I'm seeing before me, and they're all very lonely, so please help them... And before anyone asks, keywords alone aren't orphans obviously.

    All that aside, very happy with what I saw, most of you guys have put a lot of effort into your classes. Even if I went into a class or two a little hard for example, it's very clear that effort was put in and there were oversights rather than just flat out lazy design. I think most people here are pretty good at this and the only person who really sucks is me at trying to conclude this paragraph, so I'm just gonna stop.

    Good luck to all who make it through, and I'm hoping everyone continues to have a good time with the competition.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 0

    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Discussion Topic]

    Today's submission day! If you haven't already submitted, I'd suggest doing it soon.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 1

    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Discussion Topic]
    Quote from Mewdrops >>
    Quote from maxlot >>

    Submitted! Well, I submitted earlier on today, but now it's actually worthy of being submitted, there was a little bit of an error with it the first time. Regardless, I'm feeling energetic today, so if anyone wants a review, reply to this message here.

     Well, if you don't mind, I'd like a review please :D. Some recommendations on showcase cards would be nice as well, I'm not super sure about the ones I currently have (although I'm still not quite sure if we're allowed to change them). I've submitted already, it's in the post below yours.
    If there's anything specific about your set that you have concerns about I'll be happy to help, but more likely than not I won't be able to give general feedback until later, and by then, it'll probably be too late. Sorry!
     Well, sure thing. I'm pretty sure your example cards show off your class well enough. You got token summoning, group buffs, attack boosts, a grinder card and attack synergy. I like how simple your class themes are, they fit well into Hearthstone. As for the cards themselves, I'll just go over them one by one.

    Apocalypse Jester: Good flavour, obvious use, seems balanced. Great common in my opinion.

    Unity of Will: I quite like the balance of this card and the flavour's also rather nice. Just a solid common, not much to say.

    Awakening: Definately a nice way of showing off how attack buffs can be more interesting than just getting some attack on your turn. Seems fairly strong and it's really flavourful once again.

    Immortal Devil: This honestly feels a little weak. I get the purpose and the flavour's nice, but I feel like it could have another health point. A 3/5 Taunt for 5 isn't something you want to be drawing generally unless you're in a fatigue position, which means that you ought to just keep this in your hand until that point.

    Azura: Really simple legendary, which means it's probably a good one. It's got a powerful effect, though I would say it doesn't feel quite as win conditionny as all the other classic legendaries however, which I don't quite like. It's a nice way of showing off attack synergy, but maybe shouldn't be your classic leggy. Also the formatting's not great, you should make sure there isn't a word on its own on the last line the majority of the time.

    Soulsworn Acolyte: Really simple card, with the potential to give your hero some devastating power. Playing two of these into a board clear could be terrifying. Terrifying in a way I like. Nice common.

    Ritual Dagger: Probably a pretty strong card, because you can swing for 3 to reliably trigger the effect. All these cards have really nice flavour. I will say though, it's got an orphan, much like your legendary (the word by itself on the last line).

    Fireblade Acolyte: A very way of showing off the keyword, fits very, very well into the class. Probably a staple card.

    Soul Crush: Simple enough removal, though I wasn't previously aware that Faye was capable of crushing peoples souls and now I'm a little unsure of what her powers actually are.

    Archdemon's Rage: Nice combination of themes, but you don't seem to have a lot of really cheap attack buffs, they're mostly secondary features. Might be a little hard to make cards like this work.

    Cursed Child: Nice way of making a fetch card, certainly not as weak as it might originally seem due to the poor stats. Cool flavour.

    Incinerate: Pretty decent random card, simply because it's fairly controlled. I think it should say "two" rather than 2 though.

    Bloodrage Berserker: More attack synergy, this time potentially a nice finisher card. It could probably be a 3/1 or 3/2, honestly. Doesn't feel like it would be too strong like that.

    Crimson Sceptre: I'm still not really too fond of weapons that stop you from using your own hero power, but this card at least can get finished within the turn used or turn after. It's got some nice value.

    Harbinger's Decree: This is a pretty cool card. It seems fair enough and has really nice value. I can't think of anything else to say about this card... Other than that orphan at the bottom of the card. If you could reformat those, I think they'd look a little prettier.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
  • 0

    posted a message on DEATHWING NEEDS A FRIENDWING (Class Creation Competition #4) - Phase III [Discussion Topic]

    Submitted! Well, I submitted earlier on today, but now it's actually worthy of being submitted, there was a little bit of an error with it the first time. Regardless, I'm feeling energetic today, so if anyone wants a review, reply to this message here.

    Posted in: Fan Creations
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